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[GHG]

Yep. Though you dont have to tell me. I made this chart after the Xbox hot chips presentation where they revealed these numbers. maybe tweet them to Alex and DF? ;p

It's funny because this situation (ps5 vs series x) pretty much mirrors the Vega 64 vs 1080ti scenario I mentioned above.

The vega 64 had a teraflop and texel fillrate advantage but the 1080ti had higher clock speeds, a pixel fillrate advantage and better drivers.

 

[Bankai]

Alright destiny 2! Finally time to let them teraflops shine! You know, all of them!

....

 

[Endless Fluff]

We've seen the same thing happen in a PC space where AMD GPU's will lag behind less powerful (on paper) Nvidia GPU's when running the same game at the same settings. Why? 9 times out of 10 it's drivers.

Ultimately not the spec sheet that matters because that's only one part of the equation, it's the end result and how the hardware performs in real world gaming scenarios. If all everyone cared about was spec sheet wars and specifically focused on teraflops while ignoring everything else then the Vega 64 would have been a resounding success and outsold the high end Nvidia alternatives available at the time.

Yes, but this game was also running great on AMD hardware as well (not to mention PS5 is also AMD). An RX5700XT delivers the performance you see the Series X delivering here while running the high preset at 4K (it dips as low as 55fps 99,8% percentile) - this is according to computerbasebase.de benchmarks. Series X is a good chunk faster than the RX5700XT... so how and why is the console performing at this level? It simply makes no sense.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

If you want someone that codes for a living, with a semblance of authority on the matter that knows his stuff then you go for @NXGamer... not glorified tech journalist with an affinity for tech who found a niche to exploit. And no authority on the matter will ever remove personal bias.

TBF I sub both and enjoy both, but just want to see consistency from DF. I'd imagine they might be explaining why Microsoft had caught them off guard a bit if the tables were turned, but in my opinion...they seemed closer to Microsoft pre launch and if they go in hard may not get that access etc.

Then again could be wrong about all that, its just speculation but just trying to explain the rater odd behaviour we have imo seen from them given what we've seen unfold.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yes, but this game was also running great on AMD hardware as well (not to mention PS5 is also AMD). An RX5700XT delivers the performance you see the Series X delivering here while running the high preset at 4K (it dips as low as 55fps 99,8% percentile) - this is according to computerbasebase.de benchmarks. Series X is a good chunk faster than the RX5700XT... so how and why is the console performing at this level? It simply makes no sense.

do we have any benchmarks for the new AMD cards like the 6800 and 6800xt and see how they perform in comparison to the PS5?

I know Alex did some comparisons with last gen cards but I would like to see how the xsx performs relative to other RDNA 2.0 cards with higher CU counts. i think the higher CU counts on the xsx GPU without the infinity cache might be the bottleneck.

 

[GHG]

Yes, but this game was also running great on AMD hardware as well (not to mention PS5 is also AMD). An RX5700XT delivers the performance you see the Series X delivering here while running the high preset at 4K (it dips as low as 55fps 99,8% percentile) - this is according to computerbasebase.de benchmarks. Series X is a good chunk faster than the RX5700XT... so how and why is the console performing at this level? It simply makes no sense.

While the Series X is using AMD hardware developers are forced to use the GDK when creating games, they are not simply running PC code on the console and leveraging AMD's GPU drivers. In some sense this is basically the console equivalent of "it's the drivers". Let's see if the Series X experiences some of that "fine wine" that AMD GPU's typically do over time.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

I hate to admit (and little tired of consoles war in fact), but you made a damn valid point. Either they're expecting to Series X beat PS5 or if PS5 don't match/hold the frame rate with Series X they would say 'thats fine, Series X is more powerful so the results make sense'.

Maybe 'this is the way that should be, Series X is more poweful, so the drops on PS5 are valid'.

I guess they're in this perpetual Teraflops cycle. Nothing can be done about. Until PS5 loss in perfomance, they will not question the dev works about 'why the drops' just because 12TF.

Is just like all the Digital Foundry staff are on the first page of our Neogaf Next Gen Thread, imprision by the Teraflops differential.

Then again Im pretty sure recently ish i remember seeing a vid with Richard saying this is why he didn't do a spec comparison or something even though its pretty much what they did for months didn't they.....?

It may be more valid if they themselves didn't bang the drum about Teraflops and keep mentioning about series x advantage and the faster ram bandwidth. But if you do mention that I wouldn't have thought you couldn't mention that having split ram may be an issue, as far as I know no one definitively answered the question if it can access both simultaneously without slowing the effective bandwidth down. Or what happens when the fast ram is full and games are using more than the 10gb, does the above come into play?

But there's no doubt to me teraflops were valued by certainly some in DF and the hype believed to some degree at least.

 

[Spukc]

Love the VRR save from Alex for XSX.

B b b b but VRR

 

[Genx3]

So the fps dips are because of lazy devs™ and are nothing to do with the hardware?

Interesting theory.

Yes because it takes more work to get a consistent frame rate but why should the devs do the extra work if the console supports VRR?

IMO, games should have the option for unlocked frame rate for people with VRR TV's.
The option for locked frame rate should also be available with more aggressive dynamic resolution for those that don't have VRR TV's which are the majority of the people.

 

[godhandiscen]

“It eats monsters for breakfast”
“Most powerful console”

Ugh, I should have gone for a PS5 first and waited for Halo for the XSX. I am not playing any exclusive after all.

I want to blame Phill and the shills, but nah, I did this to myself. I knew I was being taken for a ride again.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Yes because it takes more work to get a consistent frame rate but why should the devs do the extra work if the console supports VRR?

IMO, games should have the option for unlocked frame rate for people with VRR TV's.
The option for locked frame rate should also be available with more aggressive dynamic resolution for those that don't have VRR TV's which are the majority of the people.

So what happens when the PS5 gets VRR?

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Another win for PS5.

I'm still waiting for these mythical “tools” to arrive for Xbox. I guess they are arriving any time now...

 

[sircaw]

“It eats monsters for breakfast”
“Most powerful console”

Ugh, I should have gone for a PS5 first and waited for Halo for the XSX. I am not playing any exclusive after all.

I want to blame Phill and the shills, but nah, I did this to myself. I knew I was being taken for a ride again.

It's not your fault, Microsoft is good with the spin, more than anything they excel at it, the true fault lies with them and users that facilitate their lies, like some people on this forum they keep the same story going and going, you know the usual people. Also when you look around the web, youtube, and so on, the colt Eastwood and Dealers of the world, etc with their dishonest guests on their podcasts.

Fud was out of control vs the ps5, you probably just got swept up in it like a lot of other people.

Its good to see that most people are finally coming around to the truth, their will always be those die-hard fanatic types, but its best just to ignore those.

 

[MasterCornholio]

It's not your fault, Microsoft is good with the spin, more than anything they excel at it, the true fault lies with them and users that facilitate their lies, like some people on this forum they keep the same story going and going, you know the usual people. Also when you look around the web, youtube, and so on, the colt Eastwood and Dealers of the world, etc with their dishonest guests on their podcasts.

Fud was out of control vs the ps5, you probably just got swept up in it like a lot of other people.

Hey fishy welcome back. Did you have a good time over the holidays?

 

[sircaw]

Hey fishy welcome back. Did you have a good time over the holidays?

The size of my gut tells me, yes, my jeans tell me no.

Yep was a great time, ate way too much, on a diet now lol.

Just catching up with some forum stuff, not sure if i missed anything to big yet.

Hope you have been well.

 

[MasterCornholio]

The size of my gut tells me, yes, my jeans tell me no.

Yep was a great time, ate way too much, on a diet now lol.

Just catching up with some forum stuff, not sure if i missed anything to big yet.

Hope you have been well.

Yep I'm fine. Just the holidays were a bit boring due to the pandemic.

 

[Insane Metal]

Love the VRR save from Alex for XSX.

Is Alex Riky ???

 

[sircaw]

Yep I'm fine. Just the holidays were a bit boring due to the pandemic.

Aye, sick to death of it, that's probably a poor use of words there, hopefully the vaccines and the spring get to wipe it out.

I think we have all had enough now

 

[Fake]

Then again Im pretty sure recently ish i remember seeing a vid with Richard saying this is why he didn't do a spec comparison or something even though its pretty much what they did for months didn't they.....?

It may be more valid if they themselves didn't bang the drum about Teraflops and keep mentioning about series x advantage and the faster ram bandwidth. But if you do mention that I wouldn't have thought you couldn't mention that having split ram may be an issue, as far as I know no one definitively answered the question if it can access both simultaneously without slowing the effective bandwidth down. Or what happens when the fast ram is full and games are using more than the 10gb, does the above come into play?

But there's no doubt to me teraflops were valued by certainly some in DF and the hype believed to some degree at least.

I prefer to believe on Rich saying this is a API overhead problem. Directx 12 Ultimate still a new API, forcing devs to use is no easy feet. Maybe those are the results.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I prefer to believe on Rich saying this is a API overhead problem. Directx 12 Ultimate still a new API, forcing devs to use is no easy feet. Maybe those are the results.

Isn't there naturally more overhead due to the API being farther away from the metal?

 

[Hezekiah]

Yep. Though you dont have to tell me. I made this chart after the Xbox hot chips presentation where they revealed these numbers. maybe tweet them to Alex and DF? ;p

Yeah someone explained it a few weeks ago. I'm not a hardware guru, but when it's broken down like this, you realise the advantages PS5 has, and that's without getting into the detail of the custom tech they're using, some of which is still unknown.

The funny thing is Sony didn't even talk much about power, they just focused on the controller, the audio, and most importantly the games.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Yeah someone explained it a few weeks ago. I'm not a hardware guru, but when it's broken down like this, you realise the advantages PS5 has, and that's without getting into the detail of the custom tech they're using, some of which is still unknown.

The funny thing is Sony didn't even talk much about power, they just focused on the controller, the audio, and most importantly the games.

Honestly it looks like they are allowing outlets like Digital Foundry do the talking for them.

 

[Aceofspades]

Honestly it looks like they are allowing outlets like Digital Foundry do the talking for them.

Well, results speaks of itself. Cerny warned about relying on TF and number of Cus March of last year, its just people tend to ignore that.

 

[x@3f*oo_e!]

Yes, but this game was also running great on AMD hardware as well (not to mention PS5 is also AMD). An RX5700XT delivers the performance you see the Series X delivering here while running the high preset at 4K (it dips as low as 55fps 99,8% percentile) - this is according to computerbasebase.de benchmarks. Series X is a good chunk faster than the RX5700XT... so how and why is the console performing at this level? It simply makes no sense.

CPU stealing memory bandwidth in the console APU (/guess)

 

[x@3f*oo_e!]

So where is the PS5 SSD advantage? These aren't backwards compat titles, but full next gen versions - Do devs need to do something extra to make it count?

Looking at load times (video 13m00s) its 27.56 vs 28.34 seconds - less than 1second difference - was expecting twice as fast.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Well, results speaks of itself. Cerny warned about relying on TF and number of Cus March of last year, its just people tend to ignore that.

Which is interesting because back then I thought it was damage control against the GitHub leaks.

 

[MasterCornholio]

So where is the PS5 SSD advantage? These aren't backwards compat titles, but full next gen versions - Do devs need to do something extra to make it count?

Looking at load times (video 13m00s) its 27.56 vs 28.34 seconds - less than 1second difference - was expecting twice as fast.

No idea but there are PS5 games with 2-3 seconds load times.

 

[N1tr0sOx1d3]

Well, results speaks of itself. Cerny warned about relying on TF and number of Cus March of last year, its just people tend to ignore that.

 

[geordiemp]

The size of my gut tells me, yes, my jeans tell me no.

Yep was a great time, ate way too much, on a diet now lol.

Just catching up with some forum stuff, not sure if i missed anything to big yet.

Hope you have been well.

You alright fat fishy, not seen U for a while. All the xbox fans seem to be in the ps5 hardware threads complaining about noise or controllers of the ps5 they supposedly have, dont see them much in face offs. Have they given up /

 

[Exanthus]

And the same ol debates continue into 2021

 

[onQ123]

This is getting boring let me know when them special tools come

 

[jroc74]

So where is the PS5 SSD advantage? These aren't backwards compat titles, but full next gen versions - Do devs need to do something extra to make it count?

Looking at load times (video 13m00s) its 27.56 vs 28.34 seconds - less than 1second difference - was expecting twice as fast.

Once again:

No idea but there are PS5 games with 2-3 seconds load times.

PS5 exclusives are where the SSD advantage is. It's not hard if you know where to look.

Maybe one day we'll see where the XSX advantage is with Series exclusives....

 

[MasterCornholio]

Once again:


PS5 exclusives are where the SSD advantage is. It's not hard if you know where to look.

Maybe one day we'll see where the XSX advantage is with Series exclusives....

Demon Souls really is impressive with it's visuals and yet the loads are extremely quick in it.



I'm guessing that you need to do something special to fully take advantage of the PS5s I/O. What it is I have no idea.

 

[sircaw]

You alright fat fishy, not seen U for a while. All the xbox fans seem to be in the ps5 hardware threads complaining about noise or controllers of the ps5 they supposedly have, dont see them much in face offs. Have they given up /

Hey bud, from betta fish to Puffa in one Xmas sitting, goddammit, i showed that Turkey who the boss was.
Yer i see a lot of coil whine etc, where is my Riky with his VRR, he still sailing that boat heh.

 

[Fake]

Isn't there naturally more overhead due to the API being farther away from the metal?

IDK. Directx have a huge reputation of being a not easy API to use on their first years. Directx 10, Directx 11, Directx 12... All have problem on their first years.

 

[DarkMage619]

Want Gamepass and play a shit ton of games but Xbox.

Want a true next gen console buy PS5.

What is the PS5 doing that is next gen that isn't possible on the XSX?

 

[geordiemp]

IDK. Directx have a huge reputation of being a not easy API to use on their first years. Directx 10, Directx 11, Directx 12... All have problem on their first years.

Just wait until next E3. Or maybe the one after that. Maybe.

 

[Aenima]

I swear ever since Cerny’s deep dive usage of the word ‘bottleneck’ has increased 10,000% on NeoGAF. I can’t read it without assuming it’s a meme at this point.

Cerny sauce comes in bottles without necks. Pretty cool right?

The biggest thing i take from the video is that anyone playing on PS5 and XSX has a massive advantage in pvp agains ppl playing on the last gen consoles. Higher frame rates and option to increase the Field of View is a great help in pvp.

 

[AgentP]

I'm guessing that you need to do something special to fully take advantage of the PS5s I/O. What it is I have no idea.

• Don't be a cross gen game with level design engineered for PS4 limitations.
• Be a native PS5 compiled game.
• Use Ps5 compression algorithms and decompression HW

 

[onnextflix5]

People who believe that it's normal for the Series X to fall below 60 in this game have clearly never played the game on PC.

An overclocked GTX1080 was already able to push 4k at almost flawless 60 with high settings (I should know, I've played it like that - downsampled to 1440p). A 1080ti was hitting locked 60 at 4k... with even higher settings (3D Ambient Occlusion).

Both these cards are quite a bit slower than the Series X and this console version is still not using 3D Ambient Occlusion but it struggles to hit a rock solid 60fps? Yeah, that is totally understandable. Nothing weird going on here. Keep on console warring guys.

That's why im saying that there is a hardware bottleneck somewhere, it cant be the new tools, as they are using the old xbox one tools on this game.

 

[Spukc]

“It eats monsters for breakfast”
“Most powerful console”

Ugh, I should have gone for a PS5 first and waited for Halo for the XSX. I am not playing any exclusive after all.

I want to blame Phill and the shills, but nah, I did this to myself. I knew I was being taken for a ride again.

I had both consoles preordered then on the last moment i decided to cancel the series x and get it when halo is a thing..

In retrospect.. glad i did

 

[Kerotan]

What a low energy post, could have written some bullet points

The only bullets here are the ps5 shooting the xbox down. Cerny does it again! Those 2 flops!

 

[Captain Toad]

It's not even surprising anymore.

That said, I doubt anyone would ever notice a difference between the two. DF just exists for console war ammunition.

 

[Snake29]

So where is the PS5 SSD advantage? These aren't backwards compat titles, but full next gen versions - Do devs need to do something extra to make it count?

Looking at load times (video 13m00s) its 27.56 vs 28.34 seconds - less than 1second difference - was expecting twice as fast.

Cross-gen title with enhanced version for the PS5. Still not really full next-gen or build from the ground up for the PS5.

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

I have no interest in this game but am pleasantly surprised in seeing the PS5 continue to outperform the XSX. The machine is undoubtedly a technical marvel.

 

[MasterCornholio]

What is the PS5 doing that is next gen that isn't possible on the XSX?

Depends if you consider resistive triggers a next gen feature.

 

[JonkyDonk]

Like I said in the previous thread about this, it's clear that the DRS is working better in the PS5 version. XSX is holding resolution over frame-rate for some reason. At least that's the case in the 60hz mode, the 120hz mode difference is probably down to some CPU related thing.

I don't think it's coincidence that these two systems give almost exactly the same performance in so many games despite the numbers looking noticably different on paper. I think Cerny took one look at what MS did with X1X and knew exactly what they were going to do with the XSX, which is to try and cram exactly double the teraflops in there at any cost just for marketing reasons. He probably had a good idea of what corners they would likely cut to achieve that number too. And so, he set out to more or less match that performance level in a more efficient way and with a lower BOM. And that's why we have two seemingly opposing philosophies having almost exactly the same results. The fact that PS5 is ahead in several cases is just the cherry on top.

 

[DarkMage619]

Depends if you consider resistive triggers a next gen feature.

I've heard some say quick resume is a next gen feature too. Might be better to not use cross gen multi-platform games as an indicator of console power especially when when there are plenty of of 'old' games that play better on the 'non' next gen system.

 

[skit_data]

I've heard some say quick resume is a next gen feature too. Might be better to not use cross gen multi-platform games as an indicator of console power especially when when there are plenty of of 'old' games that play better on the 'non' next gen system.

I guess we only get to know the ”true power” when the stars are aligned correctly on the 12th moon cycle in August in the year 12483 according to the Mayan calendar. Then, and only then, will truth grace us with its blessing.

The consoles have launched, the comparisons are here and the results are in.

 

[DarkMage619]

I guess we only get to know the ”true power” when the stars are aligned correctly on the 12th moon cycle in August in the year 12483 according to the Mayan calendar. Then, and only then, will truth grace us with its blessing.

The consoles have launched, the comparisons are here and the results are in.

True indeed both consoles have strengths and weaknesses. Like always.