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[lepermessiah]

Yeah I forgot sircaw prefers just digging the coffee beans from me per pixel shaded crack.

 

[Riky]

Except games, correct? And a faster GPU, correct? And a decent controller, correct?

Games at launch, they have what 20+ studios and Gears Tactics is a launch game. Don't need a "faster" GPU when your GPU is bigger and doesn't downclock.
The controller was already the best.

 

[jroc74]

Why don't they have a better ssd like sony?
Why don't they have a better sound engine like sony's
Why don't they have the latest version of wifi usb-c
Why don't they have any exclusive launch games?
why did they not invest in have a better controller like sony?
Why don't they have cache scrubbers like sony
Why don't they have coherency cores like sony.

This. They just have different design goals. Thats all.

 

[ToadMan]

matter how much spin they put on it a constant 10.2 tetaflops is better than clocking down at any time.

The PS5 does not “down clock at any time”. Down clocking is deterministic, monitored and measurable in PS5.

Developers know exactly when a down clock happens and optimise for that scenario if they choose.

The PS5 has a variable clock rate but entirely predictable performance.

At any given time my pc gpu can rely on a certain clock at any time. Ps5 it seems can not guarantee this.

Current PC GPUs are still thermally throttled. They are the definition of variable and unpredictable performance.

PS5 has 100% develop time predictable performance. The only time the PS5 will vary in available performance is when developers do something that makes it vary.

If the PS5 is successful in its power management design- and it seems to be given the quality of graphics - PC GPUs will institute a similar model in future.

 

[assurdum]

Games at launch, they have what 20+ studios and Gears Tactics is a launch game. Don't need a "faster" GPU when your GPU is bigger and doesn't downclock.
The controller was already the best.

People prepare to have a rude awakening. Difference are not transcendental between the 2 hardware. Stop it with this stupid argument ps5 is inferior because is not fixed clocked or a bigger gpu. It's really childish. You don't go too far off with a 20% of more gpu in the real world. But if you want to hear series X is the more powerful on the paper, go and rejoy about it. How much will counts in the real performance it's another story

 

[Rea]

Do we have confirmation that it’s not smartshift? What is the difference between it and smartshift then, since they both appear to do the same thing?

here’s Cerny saying it’s using AMD smartshift......

Sony PlayStation 5 taps AMD’s radical SmartShift tech to push its GPU to ludicrous speeds

Sony revealed more technical details about its upcoming PlayStation 5 console. It takes tricks from Ryzen 4000 laptops to push its Radeon graphics cores to ludicrous speeds.

www.pcworld.com

Look dude, he specifically said, "We also use AMD's smartshift technology" "also" is the word. Meaning that smartshift is used on top of the PS5 variable frequencies technology. Smartshift helps to achieve more efficiency.

 

[MrFunSocks]

SmartShift shifts power to the CPU or GPU or both on demand. That is done through Infinity Fabric, Memory Access and Machine Learning.......If the XBOX can do that, please specify it in the MS Docs and PDF.....

I think most of us will be waiting for your breakdown on the matter, since you are so sure of yourself, I'm thinking such information should be at your fingertips.....Can't wait for your breakdown on the matter since you are so genuinely passionate on the subject...

You completely missed the point lol.

You made a point to say that the Xbox clocks aren’t fixed, even though they are. If they’re not fixed then that means they already have smartshift, since the entire point of smartshift is to give variable clock speeds between cpu and gpu on a power budget.

I’m saying that MS and Sony’s clock speed situation is not the same.

 

[FrankWza]

Look dude, he specifically said, "We also use AMD's smartshift technology" "also" is the word. Meaning that smartshift is used on top of the PS5 variable frequencies technology. Smartshift helps to achieve more efficiency.

that’s how I understood it.

 

[NEbeast]

But people are saying it only offers benefits, like reduced heat and power draw, which would benefit the cloud server setup immensely. Again, if there is no drawback why wouldn’t they use it?

My guess is parity with PC, having smart-shift in the console while PCs typically dont use it might cause issues for MS gitst party devs who are releasing on both day one. Smart-Shift definitely helps performance, there are AMD papers showing it. Only MS can answer your question.

 

[ToadMan]

It depends on priorities when allocating costs, Microsoft spent the money on things that actually matter to games, more compute units, faster CPU and higher memory bandwidth with a bigger SSD.

Well they wasted their money if no one can see in those advantages in games didn’t they?

 

[thelastword]

You completely missed the point lol.

You made a point to say that the Xbox clocks aren’t fixed, even though they are. If they’re not fixed then that means they already have smartshift, since the entire point of smartshift is to give variable clock speeds between cpu and gpu on a power budget.

I’m saying that MS and Sony’s clock speed situation is not the same.

You are missing the point, I never spoke of SmartShift......I spoke of the GPU clock dropping below 1.8GHz on the Xbox Series X, that's an entirely different thing......If you see that happen, what will it do to you? At least we know the PS5 clocks are variable based on demand. Sony was clear to specify that...

 

[Insane Metal]

Hey everybody... it's MONDAY! This week I'm pretty sure we will have some news / leaks / whatever regarding these freaking consoles, FINALLY.

Can't wait to know more!

 

[kyliethicc]

i mean its called God of War: Ragnarok

the whole point of that video was to reveal the name

Sony Interactive Entertainment official press release says it has no name. And no one from Sony has said it's name yet. No tweets, no mentions. It has no game page online saying the name either. We do not know its name yet.

 

[thelastword]

Hey everybody... it's MONDAY! This week I'm pretty sure we will have some news / leaks / whatever regarding these freaking consoles, FINALLY.

Can't wait to know more!

You will have to wait for friday I'm afraid.....It's soon enough...

 

[Riky]

Well they wasted their money if no one can see in those advantages in games didn’t they?

We'll see, also with the RDNA2 features I would think within 12 months Series S could be pushing PS5 pretty hard, I wouldn't worry about Series X If I were you it'll be out of sight by then.

 

[kyliethicc]

Why don't they have a better ssd like sony?
Why don't they have a better sound engine like sony's
Why don't they have the latest version of wifi usb-c
Why don't they have any exclusive launch games?
why did they not invest in have a better controller like sony?
Why don't they have cache scrubbers like sony
Why don't they have coherency cores like sony.

because the only two things microsoft cared about was marketing and packaging.


Microsoft headquarters.
Don't worry people that 12 tflop number will do the business, consumers are thick as hell.


"Phil Phil Phil"

Absolute FYYYYAAAHH

 

[jasondefaoite]

It’s a gaming console. Why would you need the latest Wifi or USB-C? It doesn’t provide a meaningful advantage.

What are the actual differences between Wi-Fi 5 and 6. Other than the obvious, speed. I mean you must know, as you are saying they offer no meaningful advantage.

To me personally, it's a mistake for ANY device that will be in use in 5 years time to be shipping with Wi-Fi 5 now. But please, educate me.

 

[Empire Strikes Back]

Can people like Digital Foundry and other reviewers find out what GPU and CPU clock speed the PS5 is running?

Yep, I wanna see Alex from DF talking over stunning footage of PS5 games: "Now, you see this is locked at native 4K at 60fps with RT On but there are drops to 10.1TF, absolutely unplayable"

 

[FrankWza]

We'll see, also with the RDNA2 features I would think within 12 months Series S could be pushing PS5 pretty hard, I wouldn't worry about Series X If I were you it'll be out of sight by then.

they are NOT going to discontinue the series x. Series s probably, not x. That’s crazy talk.

 

[kyliethicc]

sircaw needs at least 5 machiatos to get the taste of my ass out his mouth.

 

[Garani]

People prepare to have a rude awakening. Difference are not transcendental between the 2 hardware. Stop it with this stupid argument ps5 is inferior because is not fixed clocked or a bigger gpu. It's really childish. You don't go too far off with a 20% of more gpu in the real world. But if you want to hear series X is the more powerful on the paper, go and rejoy about it. How much will counts in the real performance it's another story

I quite agree. The only point that I would like to make is that capabilities budget is being used differently between the PS5 and the XSX, in such a way that they will result in similar results on multiplat.

And like some else mentioned, the XSX's APU seems more suited to a server blad for an XCloud data centre than PS5's.

 

[reksveks]

they are NOT going to discontinue the series x. Series s probably, not x. That’s crazy talk.

Both consoles will just get upgrades at the same time.

 

[Godfavor]

You are missing the point, I never spoke of SmartShift......I spoke of the GPU clock dropping below 1.8GHz on the Xbox Series X, that's an entirely different thing......If you see that happen, what will it do to you? At least we know the PS5 clocks are variable based on demand. Sony was clear to specify that...

All gpus drop frequency when there is a fps cap like vsync, this is how they work. Ps5 adjust cpu or gpu clocks when there is heavy load that exceed the tdp. This is not happening with series x

 

[Garani]

We'll see, also with the RDNA2 features I would think within 12 months Series S could be pushing PS5 pretty hard, I wouldn't worry about Series X If I were you it'll be out of sight by then.

I call total bullshit on this. Just don't embarass yourself.

 

[reksveks]

Any information on PS5 games coming to PS Now?

 

[Empire Strikes Back]

History doesnt matter. Losing Housemarque or even Bluepoint games wouldnt move any needle. The point of these games are meant to be low cost, decent profit.

History does matter, why would Sony keep smaller studios than Bluepoint and Housemarque in house then? Sony has shown time and time again that they are willing to grow their studios. Bend just did that and there are the rumours of the new San Diego studio derived from the VASG. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if Pixelopus was cooking something bigger than Concrete Genius while being true to their culture.

 

[Mr Moose]

We'll see, also with the RDNA2 features I would think within 12 months Series S could be pushing PS5 pretty hard, I wouldn't worry about Series X If I were you it'll be out of sight by then.

Sure hope this is a spelling mistake, otherwise...

 

[kyliethicc]

Guys dont feed the the troll. Ignore him, cmon

 

[renx]

That casual Digital Foundry comment "people will be surprised" has me at the edge of my seat.
I think I better forget about all of this stuff until friday when the embargo is lifted.

 

[DarkParadise]

But just applying a similar difference between your comparison. What was the purpose of your exaggeration? To say that having a faster ssd is useful, think everyone wants a faster ssd but that's not really that interesting unless it unlocks a step change in game performance/development that the xbox can't achieve. The real change is more likely to be from moving from 7200rpm drives to a nvme ssd.

You are saying that Xbox doesn't need USB-C, you are saying their SSD is nearly as fast as the PS5 ones (without even having a source on that, just making assumptions). It's clear that both consoles have different architectures, but please stop justifying every single thing that you think is not needed. Ofc the Xbox SSD is fast, and a few more seconds might not matter. But if Xbox could have shipped it with a stronger SSD, why wouldn't they? Same goes for USB-C and such, it wouldn't harm anyone if they would ship it with those extras. It's clear that their console was more expensive to produce, and Sony invested in other stuff that they think is more important. You can prefer one, but stop fanboying and trying to make it look like that Sony invested into the wrong stuff.

 

[ToadMan]

Yeh, I’m not sure why people find this so hard to understand. There is a difference between the PS5s variable clock rates and the clock rates of every other GPU before it. If it was the same, and the Xbox series x was the same, then they wouldn’t have mentioned it, would they? No. I don’t think it’s crazy to want to know the drawbacks of this new method, yet this threads inhabitants just want to shut down any and all questioning.

Like I said, if the PS5 could run at max clocks all the time it wouldn’t be using this new variable clock speed tech. It just wouldn’t. Microsoft aren’t using smart shift. If it had no disadvantages they would, don’t you think? Cerny himself even said that it will downclock at times.

So to all the people fanboying out and calling me an idiot - if Smartshift offered only benefits and no downsides, why aren’t MS using it too?

They can’t use smartshift because smartshift requires infinity fabric architecture, which Xsex doesn’t have.

MS cheaped out on you. It’s evident their silicon is not cutting edge.


Dirt 5 was clocked spiking to around 170W from the wall - let’s assume 140W of that is for the GPU....

Meanwhile the cheapest RDNA 2 GPU wants 250W. The standard and top want 300W

MS is using a slow fixed clock because their GPU is underpowered in terms of wattage available. If they hadn’t cheaped out and incorporated infinity fabric, they’d be able to smartshift and get more performance.

Compare to a laptop which has smartshift - that outperforms it’s “on paper” specs as predicted by AMD.

It’ll be the same with PS5.

 

[LucasBR]

Series S pushing PS5??? How come a console already born dead will push the finest piece of tech regarding gaming consoles?

 

[PaintTinJr]

Each L1 private to each game makes sense to me, but I dont design game servers so I am just speculating, but I cant see how could time slice game application L1 caches like that anyway for cache misses etc.

I am sure there will be other differences, the display outputs and other stuff will need 4 x , its more complex than we are talking here. I am sure ps5 would be awful at running 4 x ps4 games, its not desigjned to do that.

If we were talking PS2 technology, then it would be much harder. But the PS3 generation started with a full simulation of the hardware running on PC (very slowly)- so PS4 almost certainly will have had the same IMHO - and IIRC one of the big websites did a behind the scenes of PS Now - not long after Sony acquired Gaikia listing something like GTX 280's being the GPU server side for PS3 games.

So IMO emulation/simulation has been part of middleware engines and catered for in the APIs/SDKs for a long time, and virtualising that - or being a good enough approximation - is just a matter of being conscious of where the latency processing is, and matching a hardware solution to it.
ps3/PS4 remoteplay indicates to me, that the client/server nature of Graphics APIs hasn't been completely bypassed by low level sdks, and that two or three PS5s and maybe a PC blade could run many instances of a PS4 game for the cloud - especially when the thin client isn't quite as thin as before and some of the basic processing will be downscaled and ran on the thin client, as was my experience trying Death Stranding remoteplay on my Sony Xperia 1.

 

[geordiemp]

We'll see, also with the RDNA2 features I would think within 12 months Series S could be pushing PS5 pretty hard, I wouldn't worry about Series X If I were you it'll be out of sight by then.

Bookmarked, Make sure to come back when watchdogs legion is compared.... Do you think XSS will have any ray tracing or will be around 900p30 ?

 

[Gudji]

We'll see, also with the RDNA2 features I would think within 12 months Series S could be pushing PS5 pretty hard, I wouldn't worry about Series X If I were you it'll be out of sight by then.

This will age well.

 

[GreyHand23]

Series S pushing PS5??? How come a console already born dead will push the finest piece of tech regarding gaming consoles?

Mental illness is a real thing. We shouldn’t be making fun of it.

 

[assurdum]

I quite agree. The only point that I would like to make is that capabilities budget is being used differently between the PS5 and the XSX, in such a way that they will result in similar results on multiplat.

And like some else mentioned, the XSX's APU seems more suited to a server blad for an XCloud data centre than PS5's.

Frankly it's tiring hear the same loop of information every single day repeated without to use a bit of rationality. The only real undoubted advantage on series X are the CUs numbers. Absolutely. I'm not an engineer just a passionate, but from what I know there is a problem even here: have more CUs (around 35%) and just around 20% of more data to use on the bandwidth (more or less and the weird setup on serie X could reduce the true average available) in the end you can use just that to push more the gpu. So to have more CUs it's not necessary a straightforward boost in performance. But of course probably some advantages graphically could be visible on series X but I don't expect crazy leaps in graphic fidelity. But eh it's just my opinion.

 

[ToadMan]

no, they could easily implement it. But they won’t. Why should they? They already have the most powerful console. And they want to make it as easy for the developer as possible.
And having sustained and predicable clocks makes it easier for devs than variable clocks.

Afraid not.

You’re making the “mistake” (or perhaps wilful ignorance) of correlating variable clock with unpredictable variable performance.

That is incorrect

 

[geordiemp]

This will age well.

Oh I have book market it, some expectations for TF are off the scale, reality will bite soon.

 

[MrFunSocks]

What are the actual differences between Wi-Fi 5 and 6. Other than the obvious, speed. I mean you must know, as you are saying they offer no meaningful advantage.

To me personally, it's a mistake for ANY device that will be in use in 5 years time to be shipping with Wi-Fi 5 now. But please, educate me.

Anyone that cares enough to know the difference between wifi 5 and 6, or even know there’s a thing called wifi 6, will not be using wifi because they’ll know that hard wired is better.

Why is it a mistake to use wifi 5 instead of 6?

 

[FrankWza]

I call total bullshit on this. Just don't embarass yourself.

Bookmarked, Make sure to come back when watchdogs legion is compared.... Do you think XSS will have any ray tracing or will be around 900p30 ?

I think the point he was making was that Msoft is going to the lower end console to push sales and the x will be discontinued.

 

[ToadMan]

We'll see, also with the RDNA2 features I would think within 12 months Series S could be pushing PS5 pretty hard, I wouldn't worry about Series X If I were you it'll be out of sight by then.

Oh yeah? So exactly what will see? What FPS and Res bump on Xsex multiplats?

 

[Varnish La PS]

We'll see, also with the RDNA2 features I would think within 12 months Series S could be pushing PS5 pretty hard, I wouldn't worry about Series X If I were you it'll be out of sight by then.

Well, well. That's the same energy,

 

[reksveks]

You are saying that Xbox doesn't need USB-C, you are saying their SSD is nearly as fast as the PS5 ones (without even having a source on that, just making assumptions). It's clear that both consoles have different architectures, but please stop justifying every single thing that you think is not needed. Ofc the Xbox SSD is fast, and a few more seconds might not matter. But if Xbox could have shipped it with a stronger SSD, why wouldn't they? Same goes for USB-C and such, it wouldn't harm anyone if they would ship it with those extras. It's clear that their console was more expensive to produce, and Sony invested in other stuff that they think is more important. You can prefer one, but stop fanboying and trying to make it look like that Sony invested into the wrong stuff.

I didn't say any of that, I didn't mention type-c in my comments in the last 2 weeks. I definitely didn't say that Xbox's ssd is nearly as fast as the PS5 one. I effectively said the speed differences are order of magnitude less than between consoles in comparision to gens. Type-c is nice but unless it's being used to deliver more power or data than a usb type-a 3.1 port, ehh, it's nice for design only.

I think Xbox designed their console as a PC/Server platform developer so they couldn't go too niche as they would be effectively cause more issues in terms of game development. Sony designed their console for primarily as a 1st party machine, that would be great for multiplatform games. That's my opinion on their fundament design philosophy. I also don't think that investment is 'wrong', you really are reading some weird motivations into my comments.

 

[Gudji]

What's up with the PS3 graphics in some parts? It also has hiccups in some parts or it's my PC? wtf.

 

[jasondefaoite]

Anyone that cares enough to know the difference between wifi 5 and 6, or even know there’s a thing called wifi 6, will not be using wifi because they’ll know that hard wired is better.

Why is it a mistake to use wifi 5 instead of 6?

Let's wait for Bittermich to reply. He seems to have some information that it doesn't provide a meaningful advantage. I'm curious.

If you really want to know, you can dig through my post history.

 

[Empire Strikes Back]

That casual Digital Foundry comment "people will be surprised" has me at the edge of my seat.
I think I better forget about all of this stuff until friday when the embargo is lifted.

NXGamer also teased something on his video...

 

[Loxus]

This reemergence of the PS5 Variable Clocks is a sad attempt of the RDX Crew downplaying the PS5 after realizing the XBSX doesn't have Infinity Cache.
We can already confirm the PS5 has something similar to, if not Infinity Cache.
"There's two dedicated I/O coprocessors in a large RAM pool." - Mark Cerny.

What I find odd is how similar the XBSX makeup is to RDNA 1 compared to RDNA 2.

I know I'm gonna get a lot of flack for this,
But XBSX just seems like RDNA 1 with Ray Traced Accelerators added, which in turn gained it the status of RDNA 2.

This is just my speculation btw.
The PS5 could have the same makeup of RDNA 1, we'll have to wait and see.
But right now, that seems very unlikely. The PS5 feels more RDNA 2.

Maybe today is the start of a new buzz word, "True RDNA 2"

 

[Dibils2k]

We'll see, also with the RDNA2 features I would think within 12 months Series S could be pushing PS5 pretty hard, I wouldn't worry about Series X If I were you it'll be out of sight by then.

 

[DarkParadise]

I didn't say any of that, I didn't mention type-c in my comments in the last 2 weeks. I definitely didn't say that Xbox's ssd is nearly as fast as the PS5 one. I effectively said the speed differences are order of magnitude less than between consoles in comparision to gens. Type-c is nice but unless it's being used to deliver more power or data than a usb type-a 3.1 port, ehh, it's nice for design only.

I think Xbox designed their console as a PC/Server platform developer so they couldn't go too niche as they would be effectively cause more issues in terms of game development. Sony designed their console for primarily as a 1st party machine, that would be great for multiplatform games. That's my opinion on their fundament design philosophy. I also don't think that investment is 'wrong', you really are reading some weird motivations into my comments.

Seems like i mixed you up with the guy who i originally quoted, sry!