II_JumPeR_I
Member
Weird that nobody is crying for Treyarch and all the Studios on CoD Cold War...
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CDPR institutes mandatory six-day work weeks for Cyberpunk 2077
- Thread starter Bboy AJ
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CliffyB's Cock Holster
The only people to get up in arms over this are the recreational catastrophists and complainers.
Its fraudulent, and despicable.
The same types who kick up a fuss over this are the same ones who'll "boycott" that Harry Potter game because of transphobia. I mean, they don't really care, but its a bullshit excuse to try and place themselves at the center of an issue in order to get a thrill of self-importance in their otherwise empty lives.
Its fraudulent, and despicable.
The same types who kick up a fuss over this are the same ones who'll "boycott" that Harry Potter game because of transphobia. I mean, they don't really care, but its a bullshit excuse to try and place themselves at the center of an issue in order to get a thrill of self-importance in their otherwise empty lives.
Sentenza
Member
According to who you ask, anywhere ranging between 500 and 1000 people. Which means anything ranging between a 8000€ and 4000€ bonus ON AVERAGE* going by last year's company profits.
Then again, chances are this year's earning after CP2077 launches are going to pulverize what the company made last year, so probably more.
* Of course, it's unlikely that the split will be even regardless of rank/seniority.
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Jaxcellent
Member
So, if the game aint gold yet.. and they are launching 17 nov.. how will they pull this off?
I was under the impression pressing discs and distribute them takes a month or so.. I guess they have 17 days left or something...
I figure working from home has paid its toll, I hope they can pull through and launch on time, best of luck to you CDPR!!
I was under the impression pressing discs and distribute them takes a month or so.. I guess they have 17 days left or something...
I figure working from home has paid its toll, I hope they can pull through and launch on time, best of luck to you CDPR!!
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Timberwolf25
Member
If they don't like it, then leave and find employment elsewhere.
There are jobs that don't demand that you crunch at rare times, but when a deadline requires stuff get done, then you step up and get it done. Or get the hell out of the way and don't become a distraction.
That said, crunching 6-day work weeks shouldn't be the norm and it shouldn't be prolonged. But as I said, if that isn't for you, go elsewhere. You do have a choice.
There are jobs that don't demand that you crunch at rare times, but when a deadline requires stuff get done, then you step up and get it done. Or get the hell out of the way and don't become a distraction.
That said, crunching 6-day work weeks shouldn't be the norm and it shouldn't be prolonged. But as I said, if that isn't for you, go elsewhere. You do have a choice.
Timberwolf25
Member
A while back, I believe they said the game is feature complete. So likely the crunch is for optimizations and bug fixes.
Jaxcellent
Member
I hope this is true, I don't recall them saying they are gold though..
Explosive Zombie
Banned
I feel like to get beyond crunch we need to start to realize games can't have the same level of set dates for release movies do, even the delays we currently suffer are apparently not enough.
MiguelItUp
Member
Exactly! That's why this makes me rage so much every time an article comes out boo hooing about crunch. So many people in the industry KNOW it's an unfortunate standard in the AAA market. But they stay on track and try to make the best title they possibly can.
Anytime someone "cries" or goes to the media, it's like one or two anonymous people from a team of 200-800 people (rough number). Not to mention this has been the norm for decades now, the only thing that can change is how it's handled.
Not to mention they're being compensated. Of ALL the crunches I've done, I NEVER saw ANY compensation whatsoever. We got free breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Which we were grateful for, but CDPR is giving their teams a lot more. It's not common at all in the AAA industry.
Mhmmm 2077
Member
LarknThe4th
Member
Ugh....
Is another delay possible now, I mean racking up for crunch this close to release is a bad sign
Is another delay possible now, I mean racking up for crunch this close to release is a bad sign
Sentenza
Member
It's unlikely.
And no. It's probably the norm. especially this bland form of "crunch".
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New Yorks Finest
Banned
I'll say the same thing as in the OT for CP 2077:
I do believe that wen you work for a company like CDPR, Santa Monica or R* for examples, you are dedicated and passionate about wat you do and are aware of the sacrifice and the dedication big and important projects (like Red Dead Redemption, God of War, Witcher 3 and many other) require.
It's not fun for sure and it HAS to be supervised, and the hours needs to be paid but it's not something we have to condamne like that. I've been working as a baker, at night, and trust me during the summer the crunch was horrible. But it was part of the deal: work hard and you'll get a good pay.
We are not talking about Ubisoft-like, who use almost illegal practices.
And it is exactly what's happening:
That's exactly what I stated before, all parties WIN WIN..CD staff knows wassup.
LarknThe4th
Member
MiguelItUp
Member
Crunch this close to release is beyond standard when you're prepping to cert and submit. It's essentially the dev/publisher making sure E V E R Y T H I N G is buttoned up before sending it off to go gold. As an example, Blue Point's crunch just recently wrapped on Demon Souls as they were prepping for cert and submission. Unsure of how long it lasted though, but that's the only part that varies. The crunch schedule. But the crunch itself before going gold is generally a thing.
LarknThe4th
Member
I know your point and all, but Pet Sounds is one of the greatest creations ever and it was made with union musicians and Brian Wilson was living a very normal non touring life whilst he was writing it and producing it, Sgt. Pepper was also made with the fab 4 basically strolling in and taking there time
I think Myamoto has also been quoted as saying that Super Mario Bros. 3 was made with a very regular 9 hour work day and no crunch
So it's very possible to create genre defining art on a regular schedule
I think crunch is characterized really by poor upper management, or maybe a project changing course mid stream
Arun1910
Member
Yep it's completely fine imo. Every developer crunches. I've had to crunch. You always crunch when you are near the end.
Omnipunctual Godot
Gold Member
Six work days for one and a half months doesn't really seem like that big of a deal to me, especially if they're being compensated for the overtime.
saintjules
Member
Spokker
Member
When I was younger, crunch at my jobs was novel and kind of fun. But I wouldn't do it as a father pushing 40. That's why I worked toward a cushy job that is a strict 40 hours a week.
I don't see crunch in gaming as an issue I should care about. Make your own choices about how you want to live your life.
I don't see crunch in gaming as an issue I should care about. Make your own choices about how you want to live your life.
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Boneless
Member
Because 2 days rest is the perfect amount?
Such bullshit that people get upset about this. For one, a 6 day work week is common in a lot of areas, just because its 1 more than your arbitrary 5 day a week is no reason to get upset. More importantly, this is a massive release in the biggest entertainment industry so you should be able to push people to their limits to make a miracle happen. After the release is done, these employees will get more than enough free time to make up for it I am sure.
Yup and if you decide to knuckle down at your job, put in a load of extra hours, and then reap the financial benefits in both the short and long term they'll be at the head of the line to call you privileged.
When you've worked your ass off so you can have a nice car and nice clothes and buy your own house in a nice area and use all of that to attract a beautiful woman they will smear you as a hetero-normative blah blah blah patriarchy blah blah blah.
When they finally come round to destroy or burn or just make a nuisance of themselves in your neighborhood they'll chant "eat the rich" and tell you "it's just property".
Nobody is being forced to work on Cyberpunk 2077.
This isn't some shitty back-breaking warehouse job or some dangerous work taking place out at sea for 3 to 6 month at a time.
It's developing games in a nice office but being asked to put in the extra work to be able to have "Cyberpunk 2077" on your resume.
I don't know why so many people seem to think that "video game developer" is some easy job where you get treated like a pop star and spend most of your day dying your hair, getting tattoos and posting about Trump all day on Twitter and posting about Starbucks all day on Insta.
It's no surprise that this kind of project really lives or dies on the willingness of the people involved to go the extra mile.
So long as they are being paid appropriately I do not see the issue here.
"Oh but the poor game developers". Jesus.
If only we cared half as much about where the actual consoles we'll play these games on come from.
John Day
Member
This here, is where their argument fails and they always start derailing. 100% with you.
Grow up.
B-universe
Banned
"Some devs", Jason? How many devs? What percentage of the workforce?
Who made the decision, themselves, or was it made for them?
Jason is extraordinarily coy and nonchalant with numbers, for a journalist. Ah, he doesn't care about objectivity, does he? It's that systemic imprecision of his that allows him to make vague broad statements.
From the linked article:
What does that tell you, Jason?
That maybe different people have different prioritise in life?
That their priorities change as they age and circumstances morph?
That people exist that at a specific point in their lives place work above all else and that indeed they have such right?
It's almost as if Jason, and the Jasons of this thread, project themselves onto the developers and puppeteer them to think the exact same way they do and then decide to call it "empathy".
Two extreme cases of empathizers were W Werewolfgrandma , the member who called for the mass murder of rich people, let me repeat that, the member with so much empathy for others he wants to see all rich people slaughtered, and the other member overflowing with empathy,
FukuDaruma
, who spent several posts defending Stalin's Red Army, that noble institution of bullet-shaped empathy.This thread had seen it all.
That is, up until Jason came full-circle with an article so vague, so imprecise, so nebulous it could have been found in the vandalized decrepit walls of a public loo.
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Dr.brain64
Member
Poor them with their 100k+ salary...................
Greatest Of All Time
Banned
Whenever I see this topic about crunch I feel like the ones who complain the loudest are either teens who've never had a job or liberals who take McDonalds type jobs and let the government provide the rest of their money rather than get a real job and work hard.
MiguelItUp
Member
EXACTLY! That's what I was getting at earlier. Every time these "scoops" appear, it's always one person, maybe two, or a small group that complains about it. But EVERYONE else, hundreds of people, are working hard doing what THEY choose to do because they want to create an amazing game.
It's like they just want things to go their way when it's a way they don't agree with. But that's not how life works.
I couldn't tell if sarcasm, but anywho... You'd be surprised how many people on a development team do NOT make that much money at all. Especially QA. But it all depends on if they're an actually employee, if they're contract, or what. As an actual employee I was making around 25K + benefits as a Senior QA and years later after even MORE experience I was making around 30K + benefits as a QA Lead. A QA LEAD. As a Community Manager I was making around 35K + benefits. Those roles anywhere else outside of the game industry would pay at least double that, but that's how much I was making in the game industry in Texas.
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Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
Jason Shreee is such a chode.
Halo is Back
Member
Oh no people have to work hard for an important deadline. So many other professions work long hours but for some reason people care about game companies more
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Just how incompetent is their leadership? Can't organize shit and can't keep their mouth shut when talking to the media. After so many delays they are AGAIN out of time. They are going to be crunching just to try and catch that holiday 2020 deadline, IF they are lucky.
Generally, I see nothing wrong with crunching IF they are getting paid overtime and if the whole thing is agreed upon internally. HOWEVER, in this case the leadership publicly boasted that they would not crunch. I think the workers should go full aggro. Just say give us a 100% raise or we ALL quit and collectively sue your company for mobbing. Because what we see here is some next level gaslighting by the management. Whatever their salary is, it's too much.
Generally, I see nothing wrong with crunching IF they are getting paid overtime and if the whole thing is agreed upon internally. HOWEVER, in this case the leadership publicly boasted that they would not crunch. I think the workers should go full aggro. Just say give us a 100% raise or we ALL quit and collectively sue your company for mobbing. Because what we see here is some next level gaslighting by the management. Whatever their salary is, it's too much.
EDMIX
Member
So basically we already know about that lie, but we only want to know about other lies to goal post move?
Pretty much my point. Anything regarding "other" lies is irrelevant as once that trust is lost, I believe its within reason that folks question anything being stated going forward by the developer.
B-universe
Banned
Yes, because people - CDPR - are fundamentally incapable of learning from their mistakes and changing their ways. Except for you, that is. Somehow you've made mistakes in the past and have deserved all the second chances you've been given, because you're special and Unique. Oh, no, you can't be held to the spartan standard by which you're trying to judge CDPR current conduct.
Once guilty, always guilty.
Roger.
Your reactions in this thread continuously attest to the fact you're incapable of arguing in good faith.
Go sprinkle more emojis.
EDMIX
Member
You are just too emotional over this man...
" I believe its within reason that folks question anything being stated going forward by the developer." Didn't say no one should believe them ever or I never made mistakes, but this lying isn't a "mistake", clearly even by your own words they had intent to do so. I don't think they just randomly not know the state of their game until after they took your money or something.
Its fair and within reason to question them after this. I never said to just not believe them for life and its unforgiveable or anything like that.
For fucks sakes, I'm BUYING CYBERPUNK 2077 DAY 1! I've had it pre-ordered for years now. you are simply incapable of understanding that not everyone is ok with a team lying to consumers like this after taking their money. That is completely fair that anyone feels that way after such a thing.
The fact that we have to wait until after the game comes out to wait for them to admit another set of lies really goes to show the level of mistrust the community has with this developer. So I guess we'll wait till after Cyberpunk 2077 to get the ole "ok guys, we admit XYZ was downgraded, removed, cut" etc. Stop getting mad that folks feel this way man, we have legitimate reasons to actually question them as clearly, when you are omitting such information, we are going to question....what else are they lying about?
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Piku_Ringo
Banned
Does your employer actively attempt to cultivate a relationship with its clients, and did they recently attempt to win favour with said clients by boasting about how you and your colleagues won’t have to crunch like you did on your last project?
I’m guessing not.
Fair to say then that this is something quite different. More than half the people in this thread, for some unfathomable reason, have taken it upon themselves to inform us of the crazy hours that they work. Honestly, who even cares. I work hard too. So fucking what.
This isn’t about the hours we work - it’s about CDPR and its never ending, bullshit pr shtick. They just need to stop fucking lying all the time. They’re worse than Bill Clinton. They should adopt his theme song: “Don’t Stop Lying About Tomorrow.”
John Day
Member
Then stop falling for the pr schtick of these companies! It’s not gospel, it’s just that, PR.
People here speaking in the name of the developers, yet only “a few” say something, out of HUNDREDS. What are the odds?
Company XXX lied about this or that. Of all the things to be wary about companies...
People bitched this EXACT same thing years ago with The Witcher 3. Now it’s almost one of the games of the generation nowadays, downgrade and all.
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Sentenza
Member
"Crunch does not just refer to overtime, it's a culture" sounds like a bunch of buzzwords stringed together.
It sounds like one of these idiotic platitudes that posters love to repeat to each other every five replies while nodding knowingly on ResetEra.
A.Romero
Member
The funniest thing about people bitching about crunching is that they are the first ones to bitch about:
- Half assed releases
- Delays
- Price increase in games
- Cut features
You can't have it both ways.
Personally, I'm a paying customer. I care about having the best value possible for the money I'm spending. I don't care about the conditions they are working because we are talking about highly skilled professionals, not kids working at a sweatshop. Most of these guys have options regarding where to work. Most of them don't have an issue with working overtime. If they did, they could switch to something less aggressive. They don't so why should I mind it above true worker's rights issues around the world? In that sense I doubt software developers can ever get empathy from me.
I'm in the IT industry and estimations are more often wrong than right. It's not only because management is stupid, it's way more complex than that. This industry pays above average in most places around the world. If I wanted a 9-5 job with a mediocre compensation I'd be an accountant or a HR generalist. I'm an IT warrior and I believe my profession is to a company as critical as a medic to a person. It's the kind of job where you can't just decide to not pick up the phone because you are having quality time with your fleshlight. Whomever can't deal with that reality can always go and work as a receptionist and close the front desk at 5.
By the way, company - employee relationships are pretty much a commercial thing meaning they should negotiate aligned to what the market dictates/allows. In my country they are viewed as almost a civil relationship and the government has a lot of measures and rules to avoid this kind of thing. The result is that a lot of companies don't follow the rules when they operate (often impossible to be competitive and do everything the government says) and also game companies rarely have offices here. Do you think it's because there is no talented people here? No, it's because it's simply inconvenient for companies to set up shop and deal with all that. The minute governments really start cracking on this in the US or European countries, you will start seeing a huge increase in development efforts in Asia and other countries and a reduction in US and Europe.
We are talking about businesses and in a capitalist world at that. Money is what matters.
If you truly care about this stop spending money on big AAA productions because they all do it. There are really big issues around the world that deserve your attention. This is definitely not one of them.
- Half assed releases
- Delays
- Price increase in games
- Cut features
You can't have it both ways.
Personally, I'm a paying customer. I care about having the best value possible for the money I'm spending. I don't care about the conditions they are working because we are talking about highly skilled professionals, not kids working at a sweatshop. Most of these guys have options regarding where to work. Most of them don't have an issue with working overtime. If they did, they could switch to something less aggressive. They don't so why should I mind it above true worker's rights issues around the world? In that sense I doubt software developers can ever get empathy from me.
I'm in the IT industry and estimations are more often wrong than right. It's not only because management is stupid, it's way more complex than that. This industry pays above average in most places around the world. If I wanted a 9-5 job with a mediocre compensation I'd be an accountant or a HR generalist. I'm an IT warrior and I believe my profession is to a company as critical as a medic to a person. It's the kind of job where you can't just decide to not pick up the phone because you are having quality time with your fleshlight. Whomever can't deal with that reality can always go and work as a receptionist and close the front desk at 5.
By the way, company - employee relationships are pretty much a commercial thing meaning they should negotiate aligned to what the market dictates/allows. In my country they are viewed as almost a civil relationship and the government has a lot of measures and rules to avoid this kind of thing. The result is that a lot of companies don't follow the rules when they operate (often impossible to be competitive and do everything the government says) and also game companies rarely have offices here. Do you think it's because there is no talented people here? No, it's because it's simply inconvenient for companies to set up shop and deal with all that. The minute governments really start cracking on this in the US or European countries, you will start seeing a huge increase in development efforts in Asia and other countries and a reduction in US and Europe.
We are talking about businesses and in a capitalist world at that. Money is what matters.
If you truly care about this stop spending money on big AAA productions because they all do it. There are really big issues around the world that deserve your attention. This is definitely not one of them.
dead_lighter
Member
I guess this is because it's an entertainment industry. Where's the urgency?
For CP77, I will not buy it in 2020. They should have delayed it again.
Doesn't bother me a bit. In the real world you have to hit deadlines. Sometimes you gotta crunch.
In other software fields, that is understood by everyone. Only in videogames do people act if a crunch is some world ending event.
"It's a culture"
Yeah, it's generally accepted that it's a good thing to try to hit production goals.
In other software fields, that is understood by everyone. Only in videogames do people act if a crunch is some world ending event.
"It's a culture"
Yeah, it's generally accepted that it's a good thing to try to hit production goals.
