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[FStubbs]

It's Blockbuster vs Netflix all over again.

Sure, you can still buy Blu-Rays from some stores, but the big bucks comes from Netflix and streaming platforms. Microsoft has already partnered with Sony for a cloud future (most likely present now) and Nintendo's strategy was betting hard on hardware to make them "uniques".

Mark my words: by the end of this generation, the terms "exclusive" will mean "xbox platform only" or "Sony platform only" (regardless of the device, whether it's PS5, PC, XSX or XSS, cellphone, tablet, TV, etc.).

You may not like it, heck, even abhor it, but cloud gaming is here to stay (specially now that 5G is being deployed all around the world).

Games aren't movies or music. Every company that has approached games as if they were has failed.

 

[VincentMatts]

Games aren't movies or music. Every company that has approached games as if they were has failed.

Every company? You make it seem like this has been going on for 15 years. Cloud gaming is in its infancy.

 

[sainraja]

Do u no de wae, blind man?

You missed my edit. I am making a valid point. You're choosing to ignore it and that is completely fine. Nothing may come of it, something may come from it. We just don't know. Dismissing something so quickly is usually what blindsides you.

 

[FStubbs]

Every company? You make it seem like this has been going on for 15 years. Cloud gaming is in its infancy.

"Lets treat games like movies and music" is almost as old as gaming itself.

EDIT: Example, even Nintendo tried streaming specifically with the Satellaview or whatever it was, and failed.

 

[sainraja]

Every company? You make it seem like this has been going on for 15 years. Cloud gaming is in its infancy.

OnLive, Gaikai, Shadow, PlayStation Now (Gaikai + OnLive). It has been attempted, there is another one I can't think of the name. Gaikai/OnLive were probably the first ones? But yeah, the timing wasn't right. Things are much different now.

 

[sainraja]

Sony does not have the games catalogue or partnerships to support this model. They’d be the first to drop out if things went streaming exclusively.

You have heard of PlayStation Now?

 

[VincentMatts]

OnLive, Gaikai, Shadow, PlayStation Now (Gaikai + OnLive). It has been attempted, there is another one I can't think of the name. Gaikai/OnLive were probably the first ones? But yeah, the timing wasn't right. Things are much different now.

Yeah, Dreamcast was also great idea, wrong time. Timing is now for cloud.

 

[iconmaster]

The Blockbuster-Netflix analogy fails because Blockbuster never produced its own content. The strategy for Sony or Nintendo is simply... to withhold their exclusives from the streaming services. I.e., exclusives still apply. If you want to play Breath of the Wild 2 or God of War: Ragnarok you have to pony up for the appropriate system. (The same is true for Microsoft in a different way: likely they will keep their exclusives on their own streaming service.)

Even if Stadia or Luna gain significant traction, I'm not seeing where the threat is to the entrenched parties.

 

[mikefrails]

You have heard of PlayStation Now?

Heard of Netflix? They lose pieces of their catalogue every year because they don’t own any of it.

 

[VincentMatts]

The Blockbuster-Netflix analogy fails because Blockbuster never produced its own content. The strategy for Sony or Nintendo is simply... to withhold their exclusives from the streaming services. I.e., exclusives still apply. If you want to play Breath of the Wild 2 or God of War: Ragnarok you have to pony up for the appropriate system. (The same is true for Microsoft in a different way: likely they will keep their exclusives on their own streaming service.)

Even if Stadia or Luna gain significant traction, I'm not seeing where the threat is to the entrenched parties.

As i said multiple times already, the threat is if they start buying publishers/devs. Which they can afford to do if they start being aggressive.

 

[iconmaster]

As i said multiple times already, the threat is if they start buying publishers/devs. Which they can afford to do if they start being aggressive.

Is Amazon going to buy Santa Monica Studio, or Insomniac, or Sucker Punch, or Nintendo EPD?

Amazon has already gone the exact route you suggest, anyway. They got UFOs Love Cows out of the once extremely-promising Double Helix. Oh, and another of their studios produced Crucible -- which debacle probably sums up the whole Amazon game publishing effort right now.

It's still the games that matter, and neither Sony nor Nintendo are in any danger there.

 

[VincentMatts]

Is Amazon going to buy Santa Monica Studio, or Insomniac, or Sucker Punch, or Nintendo EPD?

Amazon has already gone the exact route you suggest, anyway. They got UFOs Love Cows out of the once extremely-promising Double Helix. Oh, and another of their studios produced Crucible -- which debacle probably sums up the whole Amazon game publishing effort right now.

It's still the games that matter, and neither Sony nor Nintendo are in any danger there.

You're still not seeing the big picture. Lets say Amazon buy Ubisoft tomorrow and make those games exclusive on their platform? Sony then potentially loses access to Bethesda and Ubisoft games.

First party is one thing, but successful consoles also rely on 3rd party games. Those are 2 of the biggest.

 

[FunkMiller]

No one cared about Stadia. No one will care about Luna are my thoughts.

Those thoughts would be a bit stupid.

Amazon Prime has 150 million subscribers, and they will make Luna free to them at some point.

And Luna is nothing like Stadia. Google launched Stadia with the cloud service barely able to support it. Luna is backed by the longest running, most successful, powerful and stable cloud service there is.

 

[VincentMatts]

Those thoughts would be a bit stupid.

Amazon Prime has 150 million subscribers, and they will make Luna free to them at some point.

And Luna is nothing like Stadia. Google launched Stadia with the cloud service barely able to support it. Luna is backed by the longest running, most successful, powerful and stable cloud service there is.

Not to mention that Amazon will shove Luna marketing down our throats on Twitch, and you can take that to the bank.

 

[sainraja]

Heard of Netflix? They lose pieces of their catalogue every year because they don’t own any of it.

Um, if Microsoft can establish a service like Gamepass while trying to establishing first party content via acquisitions of studios; you think Sony, who has been running PSNow, who actually has a good set of studios and their own catalogue of content, wouldn't be able to support this model? Where have you been the past few years? And Sony, unlike during the PS3 era, has also started to make exclusive deals with third-parties, does not have any relevant partnerships?

Come on, now.

 

[sainraja]

Yeah, Dreamcast was also great idea, wrong time. Timing is now for cloud.

The one I couldn't remember was Rainway: https://rainway.com/

But I think they are fairly recent?

 

[iconmaster]

You're still not seeing the big picture. Lets say Amazon buy Ubisoft tomorrow and make those games exclusive on their platform?

If that happens, then… gamers will still buy the PS5 in order to play God of War: Ragnarok. Nintendo struggles heavily with third party support yet they can’t keep their product on the shelves.

Exclusives will continue to drive adoption whether that’s adoption of a device or of a service.

In your hypothetical, Amazon Luna adoption would presumably increase for, say, the new Assassin’s Creed. But it’s not quite the zero-sum game you’re presenting.

 

[FunkMiller]

Not to mention that Amazon will shove Luna marketing down our throats on Twitch, and you can take that to the bank.

Oh fuck, yes. It'll be all over Twitch in no time. And in your emails. And on your Kindle. And via Alexa. And Fire TV.

This thing is not going to fail like Stadia. We all need to start accepting that right now.

 

[VincentMatts]

If that happens, then… gamers will still buy the PS5 in order to play God of War: Ragnarok. Nintendo struggles heavily with third party support yet they can’t keep their product on the shelves.

Exclusives will continue to drive adoption whether that’s adoption of a device or of a service.

In your hypothetical, Amazon Luna adoption would presumably increase for, say, the new Assassin’s Creed. But it’s not quite the zero-sum game you’re presenting.

Ubisoft have more than assassins creed by the way. But if you wanna talk about that one game they have, that series has sold 140 millions copies and counting. And thats ONE of their games. Again, big picture.

https://www.gamesradar.com/how-popu...pretty damn,over 140 million copies worldwide.

 

[spawn]

No one cared about Stadia and no one will care about Luna. Stadia is already dead

 

[NullZ3r0]

NO, stadia is dead and Luna will charge extra for different channels so if you want to play some Ubi stuff there you have to pay

Cable for gaming. Disgusting!

Do not dismiss streaming. It is to consoles today what handhelds were to consoles 20 years ago, except better. Dedicated handhelds are basically dead to be replaced by streaming services which has a much greater reach.

 

[iconmaster]

Ubisoft have more than assassins creed by the way. But if you wanna talk about that one game they have, that series has sold 140 millions copies and counting. And thats ONE of their games. Again, big picture.

https://www.gamesradar.com/how-popu...pretty damn,over 140 million copies worldwide.

It's not the big picture, it's a wholly fabricated scenario. Amazon buying Ubisoft is unlikely, and if they did it's even more unlikely they'd be averse to Luna coming to game consoles. (Amazon is selling subscriptions here, not devices. They don't even care if you use their official controller.) Slightly less inconceivable: Amazon buys Uibsoft and wants to bring Luna to PS5, but Sony turns them down because it feels it can get by fine without them. And I'd agree -- they would.

To take another tack: there's no sign yet that streaming services are hurting the console market. To me it seems like mobile gaming all over again. There was actually quite a lot of concern several years ago that mobile gaming would be the end for dedicated consoles. That very much didn't happen; mobile gaming got big without cannibalizing console gaming. The new track just ran alongside the existing track. Likewise, game streaming is just another track.

 

[mikefrails]

Um, if Microsoft can establish a service like Gamepass while trying to establishing first party content via acquisitions of studios; you think Sony, who has been running PSNow, who actually has a good set of studios and their own catalogue of content, wouldn't be able to support this model? Where have you been the past few years? And Sony, unlike during the PS3 era, has also started to make exclusive deals with third-parties, does not have any relevant partnerships?

Come on, now.

We’re not talking about if the concept of a steaming service is viable, we’re talking about an all streaming world. Sure PS Now is fine now, but what happens when SquareEnix carves out their own service, or any other studio not directly owned by Sony? You’re left with games that in my opinion do not move the needles as much as Nintendo or even Microsoft owned properties.

 

[VincentMatts]

It's not the big picture, it's a wholly fabricated scenario. Amazon buying Ubisoft is unlikely, and if they did it's even more unlikely they'd be averse to Luna coming to game consoles. (Amazon is selling subscriptions here, not devices. They don't even care if you use their official controller.) Slightly less inconceivable: Amazon buys Uibsoft and wants to bring Luna to PS5, but Sony turns them down because it feels it can get by fine without them. And I'd agree -- they would.

To take another tack: there's no sign yet that streaming services are hurting the console market. To me it seems like mobile gaming all over again. There was actually quite a lot of concern several years ago that mobile gaming would be the end for dedicated consoles. That very much didn't happen; mobile gaming got big without cannibalizing console gaming. The new track just ran alongside the existing track. Likewise, game streaming is just another track.

Its not quite the same as the mobile market, however like the mobile market, streaming will have access to tons more players than consoles ever will. Why do you think MS are getting into this? Because they know that a huge % of the world wont ever buy a console and this is a way to reach them. Some countries never get consoles or theyre way too expensive, but all of those people likely have a mobile device.

You scoff at the mobile market as if its nothing, but the mobile market eats the console one for breakfast. Its not even close.

 

[vkbest]

We’re not talking about if the concept of a steaming service is viable, we’re talking about an all streaming world. Sure PS Now is fine now, but what happens when SquareEnix carves out their own service, or any other studio not directly owned by Sony? You’re left with games that in my opinion do not move the needles as much as Nintendo or even Microsoft owned properties.

What games from MS sells more than current Playstation franchises? Before you name elder scroll, remember those games was releasing on all platforms

 

[iconmaster]

You scoff at the mobile market as if its nothing, but the mobile market eats the console one for breakfast. Its not even close.

Well, let's talk about that because it's precisely my point.

The mobile market became huge without hurting the console market. You can find various sources for this data, but let's use the chart from Wikipedia even though it only goes up to 2018:

The lavender and green are what we're interested in here. Notice how the lavender console portion has remained steady (with some slight growth) for 10 years, while mobile continues its hockey-stick like expansion. As an investor, I'd prefer to be in the green area, but that doesn't mean the purple area is hurting. I suppose you could argue that consoles would have grown more without mobile entering the market, but you'd just be guessing – since we can't run that experiment. What we definitely don't see is console gaming decreasing due to the introduction of mobile gaming.

 

[Vawn]

No one cared about Stadia. No one will care about Luna are my thoughts.

Luna is a much better option than Stadia. I'm not saying it will take the gaming world by storm, but it has a much better shot than Stadia with its "rent to buy to stream" policy that appeals to no one (except V Voost Kain ).

 

[VincentMatts]

Well, let's talk about that because it's precisely my point.

The mobile market became huge without hurting the console market. You can find various sources for this data, but let's use the chart from Wikipedia even though it only goes up to 2018:

The lavender and green are what we're interested in here. Notice how the lavender console portion has remained steady (with some slight growth) for 10 years, while mobile continues its hockey-stick like expansion. As an investor, I'd prefer to be in the green area, but that doesn't mean the purple area is hurting. I suppose you could argue that consoles would have grown more without mobile entering the market, but you'd just be guessing – since we can't run that experiment. What we definitely don't see is console gaming decreasing due to the introduction of mobile gaming.

I dont disagree. But the mobile market never had the option to play full console/pc type games before until now. At least not games like what MS, google and amazon will be pushing. Bejeweled is one thing. But having access to all your console games from there too like Fallout, Elder scrolls, Halo etc and you dont think that will take a huge chunk of people away from the console market? It absolutely will imo.

 

[mikefrails]

What games from MS sells more than current Playstation franchises? Before you name elder scroll, remember those games was releasing on all platforms

Sony has the better games but they do not have the benefit of growing up with their audience (Nintendo) or the buying power (Microsoft). If they did the Plus collection would’ve received far more praise but instead was scoffed at. Sony games do not have that kind of stake in people’s minds the way Nintendo does. I point out the Mario company because they have a more comparable service in Nintendo Online.

 

[lastmessiah]

I dont disagree. But the mobile market never had the option to play full console/pc type games before until now. At least not games like what MS, google and amazon will be pushing. Bejeweled is one thing. But having access to all your console games from there too like Fallout, Elder scrolls, Halo etc and you dont think that will take a huge chunk of people away from the console market? It absolutely will imo.

And keep in mind mobile doesn't just mean "tiny phone screen". Being able to play xCloud from a Surface Pro (or any tablet for that matter) is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[FStubbs]

I dont disagree. But the mobile market never had the option to play full console/pc type games before until now. At least not games like what MS, google and amazon will be pushing. Bejeweled is one thing. But having access to all your console games from there too like Fallout, Elder scrolls, Halo etc and you dont think that will take a huge chunk of people away from the console market? It absolutely will imo.

PCs didn't kill consoles.
Smartphones didn't kill consoles or handhelds.
This (which will still run on a PC or smartphone) will not kill consoles or handhelds.

 

[chilichote]

Microsoft's mid-term plan is to enter and dominate this market^^

That leaves only Sony and Nintendo.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

I just started thinking about this today, I was reminded how Phil Spencer said a while back that he really viewed google and amazon as the future competition in gaming, and really made no mention of Sony and Nintendo in that sentence.

Fast forward to this week where MS buys Bethesda and yet doesn't specifically mention how the games will remain 100% exclusive to Xbox/pc and not PlayStation or Nintendo platforms. They still haven't confirmed any xbox console exclusivity, and why wouldn't you at this point? Why keep it vague if this will ultimately help to sell Xboxes?

Yesterday, Amazons cloud gaming service "Luna" was announced. This will obviously have very heavy integrations with Twitch. Google will do the same with their Stadia service and YouTube.

But this had me question what Phil said a while back, do they even see Sony has enemies now? Has this future potential battlefield set-up the current console rivals has potential future gaming partners?

I dont see this has an impossibility to be honest. Very curious times indeed. What do you guys think?

Edit: Can mods change "treat" to threat" in the title. My bad.

Quick answer is: Microsoft already has the infrastructure necessary to compete with amazon and google, and is in a much better place on software than both of them.
Sony and nintendo, uhm.... not so much

 

[DaGwaphics]

What I mean is they would share their games between each other, but not Luna or Stadia.

Sony and Nintendo dont have the infrastructure to do cloud gaming on the level of an amazon, google or MS without signing some sort of deal with them, like sony did by using MS Azure servers in the future.

Hell would freeze over before they let go of their software uniqueness. Especially Nintendo, they would basically be dead in the water the moment that happened.

 

[VincentMatts]

PCs didn't kill consoles.
Smartphones didn't kill consoles or handhelds.
This (which will still run on a PC or smartphone) will not kill consoles or handhelds.

Thats possible. It could be that just like PC and console are generally different types of gamers and that the mobile market will also be a different type of gamer that generally doesnt play on either of those.

But back to my original point, this will give MS, google and amazon access to a shitload more potential customers than it does just sticking to console. Im sure Bethesda were not too angry at the idea that their games would be able to access xbox console gamers, pc gamers and now 4.78 billion potential mobile gamers.

Thats something that they never would have had be able to do before. So they wont actually lose anything by being full MS exclusive when you think about it since the mobile market could potentially more than make up for it. I dont think Ubi would be terribly angry at the idea either.

 

[UnNamed]

Sony and Microsoft already have a WRITTEN partenership

Sony and Microsoft to explore strategic partnership - Stories

Companies to collaborate on new cloud-based solutions for gaming experiences and AI solutions TOKYO and REDMOND, Wash. — May 16, 2019 — Sony Corporation (Sony) and Microsoft Corp. (Microsoft) announced on Thursday that the two companies will partner on new innovations to enhance customer...

news.microsoft.com

 

[Kokoloko85]

Lol Id rather side with Luna then MS
Glad they came into the mix after the last week. I wouldnt have said that before the Bethesda and Co purchase, But if thats the future of the industry so be it and let Luna And Google spoil the party a bit.

Last few days its been all about, “mess with the bull, and you get the horn” from xbox supporters. “We’re gonna buy it all”.

Well now you have someone who can just splash cash to win Like MS. Its sleezy but enjoy.
Ill be playing on my Playstation and Nintendo device

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

Sony and Microsoft already have a WRITTEN partenership

Sony and Microsoft to explore strategic partnership - Stories

Companies to collaborate on new cloud-based solutions for gaming experiences and AI solutions TOKYO and REDMOND, Wash. — May 16, 2019 — Sony Corporation (Sony) and Microsoft Corp. (Microsoft) announced on Thursday that the two companies will partner on new innovations to enhance customer...

news.microsoft.com

sony leasing/using microsoft infrastructure (azure) for their streaming hardly makes them equal to either one of MS, Google, Amazon

 

[sainraja]

The Blockbuster-Netflix analogy fails because Blockbuster never produced its own content. The strategy for Sony or Nintendo is simply... to withhold their exclusives from the streaming services. I.e., exclusives still apply. If you want to play Breath of the Wild 2 or God of War: Ragnarok you have to pony up for the appropriate system. (The same is true for Microsoft in a different way: likely they will keep their exclusives on their own streaming service.)

Even if Stadia or Luna gain significant traction, I'm not seeing where the threat is to the entrenched parties.

What does Blockbuster not producing any content have to do with anything? Things aren't going to be exactly the same and no one is saying that. The only thing you should take away from the Blockbuster & Netflix scenario is that Blockbuster ignored Netflix. They didn't see it as a threat and when they did, it was too late. Hell, I think Netflix even went to them with their technology and they turned them down.

 

[bender]

At TGS Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo had a closed door meeting. Some footage leaked:

Spoiler

 

[Woo-Fu]

These services aren't a threat to MS, Sony, and Nintendo, they're an opportunity.

 

[sainraja]

PCs didn't kill consoles.
Smartphones didn't kill consoles or handhelds.
This (which will still run on a PC or smartphone) will not kill consoles or handhelds.

How would PCs have killed consoles?
How would smartphones, as they were first introduced killed consoles?
How were they even trying to do that? Their goals at the time were very different. The landscape of today is not the same as before so you can't point to the past and say it won't happen as a guarantee. Yes, you can learn from things that happen but nothing is guaranteed.

And BTW, how many music cd albums have you purchased lately?

 

[iconmaster]

What does Blockbuster not producing any content have to do with anything?

Quite a lot. Netflix and Blockbuster were both offering avenues to the exact same content (even, at the time, on the same format: DVD). They were natural enemies in the market.

Thus, Blockbuster disregarding Netflix was unwise. But Blockbuster didn't need to fear movie theaters the same way because no one was going to movie theaters to watch movies available on DVD.

To torture the analogy further, the PS5 is the movie theater where you have to go to see the next God of War. Neither Stadia nor Luna will offer that experience.

 

[sainraja]

Quite a lot. Netflix and Blockbuster were both offering avenues to the exact same content (even, at the time, on the same format: DVD). They were natural enemies in the market.

Thus, Blockbuster disregarding Netflix was unwise. But Blockbuster didn't need to fear movie theaters the same way because no one was going to movie theaters to watch movies available on DVD.

To torture the analogy further, the PS5 is the movie theater where you have to go to see the next God of War. Neither Stadia nor Luna will offer that experience.

Netflix didn't use to produce their own content and now they do. They invested in their business. They have been pretty good about adopting to the market. They're making attempts to stay relevant. Blockbuster had that option. They could have been Netflix. Stadia & Luna can easily do the same and offer their own 'God of War' experience.

If MS/Sony/Nintendo ignore that, they (at-least one or two of them) could suffer the same fate as Blockbuster. You're forcing a scenario that doesn't work as I just showed you. Sony does have PlayStation Now and Microsoft has been investing into their own cloud option. Sony might need to focus more on their cloud service now due to what is happening and if they don't, well, I guess they will just need to ensure/guarantee that their theater experiences stay relevant.

 

[lastmessiah]

Quite a lot. Netflix and Blockbuster were both offering avenues to the exact same content (even, at the time, on the same format: DVD). They were natural enemies in the market.

Thus, Blockbuster disregarding Netflix was unwise. But Blockbuster didn't need to fear movie theaters the same way because no one was going to movie theaters to watch movies available on DVD.

To torture the analogy further, the PS5 is the movie theater where you have to go to see the next God of War. Neither Stadia nor Luna will offer that experience.

You are seriously overestimating the appeal of God of War. It can move units, yes, but it can't sustain a corporation like Sony.

 

[Piku_Ringo]

Quite a lot. Netflix and Blockbuster were both offering avenues to the exact same content (even, at the time, on the same format: DVD). They were natural enemies in the market.

Thus, Blockbuster disregarding Netflix was unwise. But Blockbuster didn't need to fear movie theaters the same way because no one was going to movie theaters to watch movies available on DVD.

To torture the analogy further, the PS5 is the movie theater where you have to go to see the next God of War. Neither Stadia nor Luna will offer that experience.

I'm making the same face as your avatar trying to make sense of this crock. Sony needs to figure out a way to make PS Now a lucartive option compared to the competition, or they will get turn to dust with the changing gaming landscape.

 

[FStubbs]

How would PCs have killed consoles?
How would smartphones, as they were first introduced killed consoles?
How were they even trying to do that? Their goals at the time were very different. The landscape of today is not the same as before so you can't point to the past and say it won't happen as a guarantee. Yes, you can learn from things that happen but nothing is guaranteed.

And BTW, how many music cd albums have you purchased lately?

See my point earlier about music.

 

[Yoboman]

Well, that's one way to keep your head in the sand. No one situation is the same. If you think I don't understand that then I don't know what to tell you. However, the main point was, Blockbuster didn't see Netflix as a threat to their business. They were wrong. Let's not do what they did and be so quick to dismiss Amazon/Google. They are not small players. They are pretty big. Things don't have to align exactly as how it transpired before for people to take notice or consider it. I know none of us have any influence there but for this discussion my point stands.

Streaming movies presented nowhere near the same challenges to success as games. Especially as nobody big was really challenging in Netflix's domain for years, allowing them to slowly soak up all the content and win a huge customer base

Stadia and Luna have to win over customers with an inferior experience and no content of their own

 

[iconmaster]

You are seriously overestimating the appeal of God of War. It can move units, yes, but it can't sustain a corporation like Sony.

It's just an example. Sony has a number of first-party studios that have recently produced big hits. And Nintendo is, of course, Nintendo.

I'm making the same face as your avatar trying to make sense of this crock.

Look, I have Resting Dubious Face.

 

[VincentMatts]

Netflix didn't use to produce their own content and now they do. They invested in their business. They have been pretty good about adopting to the market. They're making attempts to stay relevant. Blockbuster had that option. They could have been Netflix. Stadia & Luna can easily do the same and offer their own 'God of War' experience.

If MS/Sony/Nintendo ignore that, they (at-least one or two of them) could suffer the same fate as Blockbuster. You're forcing a scenario that doesn't work as I just showed you. Sony does have PlayStation Now and Microsoft has been investing into their own cloud option. Sony might need to focus more on their cloud service now due to what is happening and if they don't, well, I guess they will just need to ensure/guarantee that their theater experiences stay relevant.

Yeah I agree. I think right now the problem is that people in here can only picture todays landscape even when they try to imagine 5-10 years from now. That's why you're seeing the responses you see now. Theres no long term vision in the responses.

Best example i think is the VHS, DVD player days. No one in the 90s thought that not owning a movie and streaming it one day would be "better" actually owning it. If you own it, you can watch it whenever you want! People said the same basic things. Yet how many people buy movies now days? Shit changed quickly. The same can absolutely happen here imo.

Only problem is latency, theres really no perfect solution to that.