Kazekage1981
Member
thanks for clarifying. I was thinking of this when I was writing that (I didn't fully understand the implementation of raytracing so I assumed it was mostly software):
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Xbox architect on ray tracing: 'developers still want to use traditional rendering techniques without a performance penalty'
- Thread starter Agnostic2020
- Start date
thanks for clarifying. I was thinking of this when I was writing that (I didn't fully understand the implementation of raytracing so I assumed it was mostly software):
TheSpecialOne
Banned
There's no interview that occurs in the article. It's just PCGamer selectively quoting Mark Grossman's comments from his Hot Chips presentation yesterday.
Xbox architect on ray tracing: 'developers still want to use traditional rendering techniques without a performance penalty'
https://www.pcgamer.com/xbox-architect-on-ray-tracing-developers-still-want-to-use-traditional-rendering-techniques-without-a-performance-penalty/ It seems that Microsoft is less than enthused about the prospect of ray tracing in the Xbox Series X, despite it being deemed the 'ultimate in...www.neogaf.com
Mod of War we have two of these threads already. Can we get them merged please?
Done.
Agnostic2020
Member
Then u want xss to render at 700p ? In 2020?
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Not sure if it is a troll thread, troll article or both. OP did omit things suspiciously, but article also has misleading clickbait title.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
i dont want xss to exist in 2020.
Agnostic2020
Member
What do u want me to add . I will add . Post it here
Whitecrow
Banned
4k is something that should be pursued, not given up.
Image quality in 4k is beastly superior to 1080, and a medium that relies on immersio, needs it.
Agnostic2020
Member
Have u seen dlss 4k vs native 4k ? It hienslty looks better at half needed gpu power
Warnen
Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
Said in another thread Control has been the only game that wowed me on PC with ray tracing so far. Something about being indoors with weird lights and lots of glass looked cool. Took a huge performance hit at 1080p with it on. Most games id rather have the FPS then the better lighting.
Agnostic2020
Member
refelction raytracing is beautiful and control does it great
MarkMe2525
Member
I think he is referring to how the OP framed the content of the article. What I get from the article is they didn't want to sacrifice too much die space for rt specific functions that would hurt traditional rasterization. So they developed a method that uses fixed function and software. The OP then stated series x would have "not much" rt capabilities.
Time will tell, but I know you know that just because amd's approach to rt is different than Nvidias, does not mean it can't perform well.
VFXVeteran
Banned
Even at 1440p, you'd still have bandwidth issues. For every pixel, you still have to cast billions of ray intersections. Depending on the shaders, it could be more than that. This is a good starting point for what will most definitely take a couple of generations to get some good results. Even the 3000-series graphics cards will be bandwidth limited with their 1T/s. There is a reason why this shit takes hours when producing CGI.
Last edited:
Tranquil
Member
This was new to me.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
i didnt say anything about 1080p. i said 1440p (UE5 demo settings) or 4kcb which is so good even DF cant tell the difference at times. both of which render around half the pixels of native 4k.
Fortuneelsewhere
Member
Hahaha so much doom and gloom over this.. typical gaf.. always overreacting like little kids..
We are already seeing so good prospects for RT in most of ps5 games.. of course it will not be fully scene RT but who was thinking it would ever be given the current state of technology?
I’m really looking forward to spider man MM as I think will be a wonderful first show case of RT reflections.. further down the line GT will be glorious also..
And as devs take better understanding of this technology for sure we will see wonderful things in the future.. and if we think UE5 with some of this extra RT features I think next gen will truly shine.
We are already seeing so good prospects for RT in most of ps5 games.. of course it will not be fully scene RT but who was thinking it would ever be given the current state of technology?
I’m really looking forward to spider man MM as I think will be a wonderful first show case of RT reflections.. further down the line GT will be glorious also..
And as devs take better understanding of this technology for sure we will see wonderful things in the future.. and if we think UE5 with some of this extra RT features I think next gen will truly shine.
llien
Member
What does it even mean?
It is pretty telling that Epic had to be asked whether they have used RT or not, after showing this demo:
RT is a little more than a buzzword pushed by NV at this point.
llien
Member
You are confusing it with some other "software": something that runs on CPUs.
GPUs are drastically different, massively multi-threaded out of the box.
geordiemp
Member
Well when it gets within 6 months of release we will know, over a year out it may look as bad as this
Last edited:
namekuseijin
Banned
people hyping raytracing, 4K or 60fps as nextgen gaming are so off the mark...
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
I think it has more to do with how much Microsoft spoke about raytracing and now it sounds like it won't be as prominent in the XSX as we were led to believe
trikster40
Member
Whoa, didn’t know that. Thought it was native 4K but yeah, now I see what you mean. I assumed “resolutions up to 4K” just meant it would run at lower res on 1080 TVs.
Last edited:
geordiemp
Member
LeftThumbstick
Member
Low specs?
CrysisFreak
Banned
Is it implied that enabling RT on Series X (and possibly PS5) will take a bite off traditional rasterisation performance?
Polygonal_Sprite
Member
I think we’ll see RT used mostly in exclusive games. Sony will push it even more in their 30fps cinematic adventure games too.
No its purpose was to counter your marketing hyperbole from months back
Real Time Hardware Accelerated DirectX Ray Tracing - How Xbox Series X will show a generational leap in Video Game Graphics
In March 19, 2018 Microsoft announced DirectX Raytracing with demos from the Futuremark demo from Epic and SEED demo from EA. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/announcing-microsoft-directx-raytracing/ 3D Graphics is a Lie https://microsoft.github.io/DirectX-Specs/d3d/Raytracing.html The...
FranXico
Member
I thought it already was clear that ray-tracing on consoles will be used selectively. We have already seen this to be the case on PS5 games.
Ray-tracing is expensive, of course devs will combine it with traditional techniques (although one could argue RT itself is a very traditional brute force technique).
Ray-tracing is expensive, of course devs will combine it with traditional techniques (although one could argue RT itself is a very traditional brute force technique).
eastwood333
Banned
Careful, should come witha warning on accessing so much power can blind you
I mean, you're comparing a game built for a 1.3tf machine's capabilities. We all know this doesn't represent what the most powerful next gen console can do.
It trully amazes me how selective a certain mod is on this site when i see non stop trolling of certain individuals that never seem to get banned.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
That's inevitable, its not a cheap technique.
The bigger issue is explained by simply looking at what its function is. If you were to build a game that used RT for all lighting, then you have a real issue porting it to a system that isn't beefy enough to handle it acceptably. You'd simply have to redo everything using traditional pre-baking etc.
The upshot is that RT is just more work until every system out there can utilize it for the lion's share of the lighting pipeline. And that's not going to be the case for years.
FranXico
Member
It will always incur a cost, yes.
Dampf
Member
Developers will find ways to make it more efficient.
Nvidia already released their new RTGI SDK which allows for RT GI even on a 1060 with good framerates. Software based Raytracing, so to speak. That is a huge step up from the RT GI in Metro, which completely destroys framerates on Pascal GPUs.
My prediction is that RT will be standard in the future. If you have a card without RT acceleration, low settings will be applied. Performance will be worse than with a comparable raster effect (which does not exist in my scenario here, remember that), but not by that much. If you have a RT accelerated card, you can choose higher fidelity settings, or run these low settings with much faster performance (yes, even faster than raster and will look much better too).
That way, the developers won't have to worry about baking the lighting / SSR reflections etc, as game development using Raytracing is a lot more cost efficient and easier. And with low setting RT, you can still support older cards and still having a huge userbase, while making use of the RT acceleration of newer cards at the same time. That is a win-win-win situation for all involved and makes the most sense.
Unreal Engine 5 is kind of an outsider here for now, but I'm certain they will find a way to make use of RT acceleration in their new engine. They could combine Lumen GI with RT reflections for example to deliver the best of both worlds.
Nvidia already released their new RTGI SDK which allows for RT GI even on a 1060 with good framerates. Software based Raytracing, so to speak. That is a huge step up from the RT GI in Metro, which completely destroys framerates on Pascal GPUs.
My prediction is that RT will be standard in the future. If you have a card without RT acceleration, low settings will be applied. Performance will be worse than with a comparable raster effect (which does not exist in my scenario here, remember that), but not by that much. If you have a RT accelerated card, you can choose higher fidelity settings, or run these low settings with much faster performance (yes, even faster than raster and will look much better too).
That way, the developers won't have to worry about baking the lighting / SSR reflections etc, as game development using Raytracing is a lot more cost efficient and easier. And with low setting RT, you can still support older cards and still having a huge userbase, while making use of the RT acceleration of newer cards at the same time. That is a win-win-win situation for all involved and makes the most sense.
Unreal Engine 5 is kind of an outsider here for now, but I'm certain they will find a way to make use of RT acceleration in their new engine. They could combine Lumen GI with RT reflections for example to deliver the best of both worlds.
Last edited:
jimbojim
Banned
Well, that's Nvidia. Compared to AMD, they're experts in that
geordiemp
Member
Come on, someone created a troll image of an ps5 indie game so it was deserved lol. I did not start it.
I am more interested in the technology as you can see from most of my posts....
Back on topic, its an interesting solution for RDNA2 ray tracing and quite good for consoles as its efficient, we cant have 1000 bucks just for the die can we.
I wonder if PC will go the same route ?
Last edited:
gooner4life_uk
Member
Anyone who's played a game on a top end PC (i9 9900k/10900k and a 2080 Ti) will know you're not getting native 4k with full path ray tracing in these consoles, it's a pipedream.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I think ray tracing is going to take off on the PC, simply because the next few rounds of GPUs will be much better at it than the 20xx series. Unfortunately, I don't think consoles are going to use it much, because it's AMD first-gen tech and we don't even know how capable it is. Maybe a few shadows or reflections sparingly, but that's about it. I think the gap between PC and console is going to be very wide in a few years, more similar to what we saw with 360/PS3 vs. PC than this past gen.
Last edited:
Dampf
Member
It doesn't matter. Research and development is in full effect right now and Nvidia also contributes to the Microsoft DXR standard, meaning AMD will benefit from their development too and vice versa, they are not that much into vendor locking anymore, atleast as far as Raytracing is concerned (of course for stuff like DLSS thats a different story).
The RTGI SDK for example runs on any DXR capable GPU. Right now, that's only Nvidia GPUs but nothing is stopping AMD from enabling DXR for their GPUs and thus, running Nvidia's RTGI as well.
Last edited:
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Luminous in UE5 was good enough for me. Was very convincing and close to RT, minus the current overhead allegedly.
RT will be used a lot for reflective surfaces early on.
RT will be used a lot for reflective surfaces early on.
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Voxel GI is expensive as hell too that's why you didn't see it used in any high budget console games this generation.
Last edited:
geordiemp
Member
They are targeting 60 and its early development so it would eb great tgo get voxel GI and such rendering on consoles.
Agnostic2020
Member
320 giga rays vs 380 giga rays. 15% difference . Yea MUCH MORE lol
Oh, got any links to examples?
pawel86ck
Banned
Havent you seen UE5 tech demo? "Lumen" (real time GI) is using software RT, just very limited (or should I say optimized).
Similar threads
- Locked