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jonnyp
Member
It takes R&C a couple of seconds to load much more dynamic and better looking worlds. How do you explain that then?
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pawel86ck
Banned
AMD CAS is just very good sharpening filter and cant be really compared with DLSS 2.0.
Here's comparison CAS vs DLSS 2.0.
geordiemp
Member
J_Gamer.exe
Member
So in response to this...
I thought the below was helpful and a good find in another thread about the ever more confusing SFS debacle.
So if this is it and that old and dated (2014) granite was doing basically the same as SFS then surely Sony wouldn't be so stupid to not utilise something that can maximise their ssd, io investment and advantage.
Then also that means Microsoft seem to be jumping on this tech, which the main parts are not exclusive, to magically make up the biggest gap on the next gen despite no reason Sony can't and won't (?) use similar tech...
Someone tell me I'm wrong here because this is crazy if so given the back and forth its caused....
If Sony can use similar tech then MS releasing info the way it was released seems a bit like secret sauce damage control to confuse regular people IMO and worked a treat......
Only problem with that is.... it only gives a temporary victory... the reality still has to hit eventually...
I thought the below was helpful and a good find in another thread about the ever more confusing SFS debacle.
Interesting James uses the phrase 'fine grained' as that is exact same phrase Granite use to describe their advanced texture streaming middleware used all this generation:
"We call Granite SDK a fine-grained streaming system because we load very small tiles of texture data. This is happening in the background while playing the game. The size of the tiles is configurable but a commonly used setting is 128×128 pixels. When using virtual texturing, you will only load the texture tiles into memory that are actually viewed by the virtual camera. The main benefit is that you can save on the amount of video memory that you need for you texture data, but there are a bunch of side benefits. Loading times are reduced and disk access is more constant and predictable. The bottom-line is that you can really increase the graphical fidelity of games, while staying within the limited of the current hardware"
Now I don't doubt SFS is nice addition to the SDK/middleware tool kit, but it really isn't a revolution from what I can tell and I'm sure all platforms will benefit from the same or similar.
SFS as James says takes what the above description of Granite explains is done this gen and then goes a little further and uses only part of a mip (rather than all) further saving RAM/time etc.
That is how I read and understand it.
So if this is it and that old and dated (2014) granite was doing basically the same as SFS then surely Sony wouldn't be so stupid to not utilise something that can maximise their ssd, io investment and advantage.
Then also that means Microsoft seem to be jumping on this tech, which the main parts are not exclusive, to magically make up the biggest gap on the next gen despite no reason Sony can't and won't (?) use similar tech...
Someone tell me I'm wrong here because this is crazy if so given the back and forth its caused....
If Sony can use similar tech then MS releasing info the way it was released seems a bit like secret sauce damage control to confuse regular people IMO and worked a treat......
Only problem with that is.... it only gives a temporary victory... the reality still has to hit eventually...
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Nail on the head. Marketing something that's been around for sometime with a different name. Just that its there own software instead of licensing it from someone else so they market it as "NEW".
geordiemp
Member
Yup you got it in a nutshell.
People are spouting Carmack stuff from 2014 and PRT+ as benefits, ogh it also makes latte and serves breakfast.
Simply put, SFS blends a mipmap IF it arrives late from SSD to stop the harsh pop in. Goosen quote on what SFS actually does - it stops GPU stalls.:
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Killer Sakoman
Member
Funny that they are the leading fanboy war under General Greenberg
Lethal01
Member
Can anyone address these tweets regarding SFS as posted by someone in another thread by @Bernkastel
Xbox Velocity Architecture - 100 GB is instantly accessible by the developer through a custom hardware decompression block
don't tell me someone that had no idea what they were talking about in this thread suggested that "Perhaps Unreal 5 won't work with the hardware optimizations on XSX" and now a few are entertaining the idea? Fact is it's not true and there is nothing to suggest that nanite won't benefit from...www.neogaf.com
Can the PS5 do similar and will it use similar methods? Will devs happily get somthings running on PS5 using its speed and not use this because they don't need to but will on xbox because they have to? Meaning if similar was used on PS5 it could have more performance but may go unused?
I know people have said partially resident textures has been around ages so is this really all that as claimed below?
What cost does sfs have, cpu ,latency etc...
This guy saying PS5 does it normal way not like sfs.... is he right...?
Few pages ago I have asked the same question but only to learn it's not a good thread to ask such questions. Quick summary
- I've no idea what I'm talking about even when I'm only quoting MS engineers, because experts here know better
- SFS is useless software trick and nothing special, PS5 doesnt need it.
- PS5 I/O eats XSX I/O for breakfast no matter what clever bandwidth saving tricks XSX will use.
From what I gather the answer is yes, the aspect of SFS that gives the 2.5x boost that Microsoft is talking about seems to not be new tech and to have been implemented on a hardware level last gen. I keep hearing that something unique about SFS is it blending between the textures as they get loading in better.
I can't say that Sony's implementation isn't slower or something but I also can't say it isn't faster.
TLDR: Yes
If I'm totally wrong then let me know.
Jason28
Has a tiny dick and smaller e-peen
Papa Phil is full of shit, as always.
He says no console wars, yet in his statements he throws shadow at Sony.
He says no nextgen exclusives, then he says it's the developer who decides.
He says they don't care where you play their games, yet they don;t release the games on NS or PS.
Fuck this lies.
He says no console wars, yet in his statements he throws shadow at Sony.
He says no nextgen exclusives, then he says it's the developer who decides.
He says they don't care where you play their games, yet they don;t release the games on NS or PS.
Fuck this lies.
geordiemp
Member
From what I gather the answer is yes, the aspect of SFS that gives the 2.5x boost that Microsoft is talking about seems to not be new tech and to have been implemented on a hardware level last gen. I keep hearing that something unique about SFS is it blending between the textures as they get loading in better.
I can't say that Sony's implementation isn't slower or something but I also can't say it isn't faster.
TLDR: Yes
If I'm totally wrong then let me know.
Yup its been around for while, for ps5 you now have coherency engine and cache scrubbers and 2 controllers for managing the SSD - oh I wonder how they might help lol
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geordiemp
Member
Well spiderman was last gen loaded in 0.8 seconds, but that was a ps4 game and half the size.
What do you think ?
Lethal01
Member
Loading screen can sometimes involve more than just reading data, there could games that have to process a lot of data during load.
Data can also take longer to load when you are loading sequentially.
The 2.4~5GB/s figure aren't there to deceive, they are the standard way to measure that can be quickly understood when you want to compare one to another. But it doesn't literally mean it will Load at that speed under any and all circumstances.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
AMD CAS is just very good sharpening filter and cant be really compared with DLSS 2.0.
Here's comparison CAS vs DLSS 2.0.
CAS lines show saw like pixels on the lines in the distance, while DLSS rebuiled these missing pixels so all lines are smooth and detailed. DLSS 2.0 can be mistaken as 4K native with TAA, while CAS looks like standard upscaling on HDTV. I would only use it on PC monitor because PC sharpening filters looks ugly.
Well how it's done if no flickering and strange things happening from time to time and more stable then it's welcome. Did you read that?
AMD RX 5700 XT ($409) vs Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti ($1480)
The difference between both is extremely minor.
Well, it's already pretty close to PS4 Pro anyway with higher framerates at native 4K.
Careful, dont start disrespecting magic, your on dangerous ground young Bo
Yeah, they didn't like the screenshots, my secret weapon against BS.
That UE5 Demo is beyond any upscaling known to man.
Gamernyc78
Banned
Yeah the hypocrisy is real on this one. Every gd pr shit he says is overshadowed by a little shady purposeful remark or a tweet from another Xbox exec throwing shade. The good good cop/bad cop stuff is getting corny.
In the end its just gaming, this fictitious war isn't taking lives just getting some ppl upset or banned on social media let's not be tarts lol, it's not tht serious
❤❤
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sircaw
Banned
Well how it's done if no flickering and strange things happening from time to time and more stable then it's welcome. Did you read that?
AMD RX 5700 XT ($409) vs Nvidia RTX 2080 Ti ($1480)
The difference between both is extremely minor.
Well, it's already pretty close to PS4 Pro anyway with higher framerates at native 4K.
Yeah, they didn't like the screenshots, my secret weapon against BS.
Bo my dear friend, How is the game, is it good?, i have seen some screenshots of some of the areas and its the most beautiful game i think i have ever seen.
How does it compare to Tlou2, which do you prefer.
But a game like Astro boy isn’t going to be complex to load. I don’t understand why people would think that game would need 7 seconds to load.
SleepDoctor
Banned
That doesn't sound right at all. General Cringeberg has a better ring to it imo.
sircaw
Banned
Yeah the hypocrisy is real on this one. Every gd pr shit he says is overshadowed by a little shady purposeful remark or a tweet from another Xbox exec throwing shade. The good good cop/bad cop stuff is getting corny.
In the end its just gaming, this fictitious war isn't taking lives just getting some ppl upset or banned on social media let's not be tarts lol, it's not tht serious
❤
Bo has been playing Got for 20 hours straight, he replies here when he runs for bathroom breaks, That is a SERIOUS problem.
You know, if i was a pimp and bo was one of my girls, i would be damn rich, the dedication he puts in.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
TLOU2 is 10/10 for me. Ghost of Tsushima is still solid 8.5/10 but I'm still at the very beginning. I'm not liking the acting of some characters and some stories that seem low budget to me. The Japanese voice acting is majestic but I can't read fast enough or during combat so I'll stick with English that seems they've gathered them from the neighborhood. It can end up 9 or 10 though, I had the same feeling with The Witcher 3, one of the best games in the history of gaming. Graphics wise it's 8/10, it's pushing PS4 Pro too hard. TLOU2 is still holding the crown there.
If you love reflex-based difficulty, then you'll enjoy it at hard especially in the epic 1-on-1 duels. Can't see a reason not to pick it up I'm enjoying it a lot, but would've loved better camera angles for side missions convo as it looks bland like AC Origins then AC Odyssey made a great step there and made The Witcher-like camera angle for side missions conversations.
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Gamernyc78
Banned
Bo has been playing Got for 20 hours straight, he replies here when he runs for bathroom breaks, That is a SERIOUS problem.
You know, if i was a pimp and bo was one of my girls, i would be damn rich, the dedication he puts in.
Lol hey I played for several hours straight but had to work, work out my noodle arms, take care of my son and clean
but the game is addictive lol
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sircaw
Banned
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Gamernyc78
Banned
The big complaint i saw people was camera angles. Well glad your enjoying it.
Camera angles, no lock on but both closely related.
sircaw
Banned
Lol hey I played for several hours straight but had to work, work out, take care of my son and clean
ah, sorry did not mean to exclude you, ... Work out... we have already had that discussion fs.
Glad your enjoying it.
Lethal01
Member
Well it's either more complex than you think or it's unoptimized.
not gonna speculate on which
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geordiemp
Member
Why do you think it NEEDS time to load ?
The correct observation is the game took some time to fly through that tunnel, I wonder what was happening ?
A developer can put in any transition they want, they may be rumbling and giving some haptic fedback in the transition, its a demonstration game for the controller for people new to it.
Your free to speculate, guessing the ps5 SSD is slow is liklely incorrect.
Any game will load in under 2 seconds if that is what is required, that is the sony spec.
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J_Gamer.exe
Member
From what I gather the answer is yes, the aspect of SFS that gives the 2.5x boost that Microsoft is talking about seems to not be new tech and to have been implemented on a hardware level last gen. I keep hearing that something unique about SFS is it blending between the textures as they get loading in better.
I can't say that Sony's implementation isn't slower or something but I also can't say it isn't faster.
TLDR: Yes
If I'm totally wrong then let me know.
Damn... so not only is it old tech but PS4 GPU offered native hardware support for it. So PS5, unless they all collectively banged their heads, forgot their names and have been living on silly street, is not likely to go backwards.
Would love to hear some xbox fans analysis on this now its (to me at least) becoming a lot clearer.
Hardcore Sony fans on twitter upon reading this thread and learning how to tackle the new Microsoft narrative...
Bo_Hazem
Banned
The big complaint i saw people have was camera angles. Well glad your enjoying it.
Camera angles I'm referring to is from artistic point of view not gameplay. In gameplay it's ok just change the settings for CAMERA SPEED from "Default" to "Fast" in the option menu (it's not even fast, it's just gets normal). (not my screenshot, I don't do medium)
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3liteDragon
Member
Looks like CoD 2020 is called
Call of Duty: Black Ops CIA.
Call of Duty: Black Ops CIA.
Andodalf
Banned
Loading is far more than just filling up ram
HeisenbergFX4
Member
geordiemp
Member
Well its late, look forward to seeing what new fud is spread tomorrow or what old tech is labelled as new.
Its like a box of new tricks everyday.
Hope the above does not Trigger you to much sleep doctor,
Every post I got triggered by sleepdoctor but I have him on ignore now.
I feel like I am a prime target for the xbox discord lol
Its been funny today, we have had Far cry not 4K excitement and trolls, and then ubi said woops.
And we have had a supposed developer....claim XSX will claw back Ps5 SSD speed, turned out it was odium who is just a warrior (banned from era for warring).
J_Gamer.exe
Member
All I ever got was laughing face off the sleepy doctor, must have one hell of a sense of humour that bloke.
What was with that Far cry reply though? It is a strange reply....
geordiemp
Member
UBI said they cannot discuss other consoles resolution at this time (MS marketing deal) and removed all references.
Also GAF thread title was changed lol
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Lethal01
Member
Well, I won't pretend to have "Proven" anything.
Damn... so not only is it old tech but PS4 GPU offered native hardware support for it. So PS5, unless they all collectively banged their heads, forgot their names and have been living on silly street, is not likely to go backwards.
Would love to hear some xbox fans analysis on this now its (to me at least) becoming a lot clearer.
Hardcore Sony fans on twitter upon reading this thread and learning how to tackle the new Microsoft narrative...
Perhaps SFS allows you to only load 5% of mip1 instead of being having to load a quarter of it. Perhaps there is overhead, the discussion continues until it's in everyone's hands.
geordiemp
Member
Well, I won't pretend to have "Proven" anything.
Perhaps SFS allows you to only load 5% of mip1 instead of being having to load a quarter of it. Perhaps there is overhead, the discussion continues until it's in everyone's hands.
There is also a performance costs discussed in Dx12 ult to the feedback, its all about cycles and time taken up doing shit,... i cant be bothered to link it. I posted it last week sometime...
Anyway...Good night chaps/
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J_Gamer.exe
Member
Just seen the thread, classic, like you say quite an interesting day all in all, learnt some stuff too.
MasterCornholio
Member
Not really it just means that Klobrille won't play any 30FPs games.
I wonder how many games he will miss out on if he's not gaming on PC?
J_Gamer.exe
Member
Well, I won't pretend to have "Proven" anything.
Perhaps SFS allows you to only load 5% of mip1 instead of being having to load a quarter of it. Perhaps there is overhead, the discussion continues until it's in everyone's hands.
Yeah you would think some improvements but the general concept is right there 'a portion of a texture or a subset of its mipmap', that's on PS4. As well as that old granite example too showing its basically all there.
He says he thinks its software based on PS5 but this guy has no real info from what people say, yet PS4 GPU offered hardware support for similar....
The only hardware bit exclusive to XSX i have seen was the blending bit....
As a side note Ghost of Tsushima loads so fast I wonder if that uses anything like this.....
Rudius
Member
4k 60 according to Digital Foundry.
J_Gamer.exe
Member
Link if you can for educational purposes.... but not before sleep lol
B_Boss
Member
Well, wouldn’t such a claim require a complete and exhaustive knowledge of the facts and ideas from the development cycle of the game? Perhaps there are reasons you aren’t aware of?
So, from your perspective, there is absolutely no logical or technical reason as to why you’d see 7-ish seconds of loading when we’ve seen far more complicated games that load in much less time
?
J_Gamer.exe
Member
Unless he was being very specific and speaking literally.... and he won't play 30fps games in 2020 when on his period...? Maybe that'll be the get out clause....
Handy Fake
Member
THANK YOU.
I've been pondering this for a few days. I presume PS5 has some form of SFS as back up but with the hardware involved in their IO I was assuming it was just a case of simply not needing it?
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DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
So wait, the PS5 laid horizontally, the disc drive slot is on the bottom and not on the top? I always thought it was on the top, but I saw it today laid with it on the bottom side. That's... really weird. I can't think of another system that has the disc slot on the low end of a console.
ErRor88
Member
Well, wouldn’t such a claim require a complete and exhaustive knowledge of the facts and ideas from the development cycle of the game? Perhaps there are reasons you aren’t aware of?
So, from your perspective, there is absolutely no logical or technical reason as to why you’d see 7-ish seconds of loading when we’ve seen far more complicated games that load in much less time
No, Yes, and my statements were in context to not all transition/loading screens are for loading. It was said that it's there to show off the controller.
IMO, they could have put that in the hub area NPC's to show off aspects of the controller and reinforce these aspects with gameplay. I, as the player, would be more impressed with the reinforce gameplay than a transition screen were I presumably would be hearing a whooshing sounds from the controller for 7 secs.
To me, 7 seconds could be because of a lot of reasons, skill, game design, unoptimized APIs/OS, etc. Either way, it doesn't phase me cause I'm good with 2-15 secs of transition/loading screens from either system.
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