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[Phoenix RISING]

This is their response to:Alternate angle:

Philadelphia police are conducting an internal investigation into a viral video that shows officers handcuffing and removing two black men from the premises of a Starbucks store.

​

“The police were called because these men hadn’t ordered anything,” tweeted author Melissa DePino, who posted a video of the arrest on Thursday. “They were waiting for a friend to show up, who did as they were taken out in handcuffs for doing nothing. All the other white ppl are wondering why it’s never happened to us when we do the same thing.”

​

The clip shows what appears to be a white man in a vest questioning why an arrest is taking place. He seems to be the person who was planning to meet the black men at Starbucks.

​

“What did they get called for?” the man asks an officer. “’Cause there are two black guys sitting here meeting me?”​

​

“We declined to bring charges against the two men because there was a lack of evidence that a crime was committed,” Waxman said.

Local News story

So all of that is to get folks up to speed since there wasn't a thread up here, yet it's been trending everywhere.

Starbucks CEO meets with arrested black men to personally apologize.


Starbucks proposed action plan:

The curriculum will be developed with guidance from several national and local experts confronting racial bias, including Bryan Stevenson, founder and executive director of the Equal Justice Initiative; Sherrilyn Ifill, president and director-counsel of the NAACP Legal Defense and Education Fund; Heather McGhee, president of Demos; former U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder; and Jonathan Greenblatt, ceo of the Anti-Defamation League. Starbucks will involve these experts in monitoring and reviewing the effectiveness of the measures we undertake.

175,000 employees will undergo this training.

Edit 2:

 

[Musky_Cheese]

Good for Starbucks to take the situation serious.

I got to be honest though, if I owned a coffee shop and you wanted to sit at my tables... order something. I’d tell anyone who was in my business to order or leave. If you buy then you are more than welcome to sit there.

 

[flibbertyjibbert]

eh, seems to me if you're asked to leave private premises and don't, you're trespassing. break the law get arrested.

 

[TrainedRage]

I see this issue where I work quite a bit. Lots of people who don't work, hang around near the Starbucks and Subway etc. they beg for change when ever you come out. I'm sure those places have had to deal with people coming in to get out of the cold or just sit and relax or even use the bathroom. If they have a sign on the door that says "Paying Customers Only" then they have every right to kick people out for loitering or trespassing on private property.

I know the video looks bad, but what if these guys came in that store all the time and were known to be trouble? What if they never bought anything and the employee noticed and then called the police out of fear of repercussion or the media shitstorm? I'm against profiling people based on color but I think there was more to it than that.

 

[pramod]

I guess if you want to be a "woke" company this is what you have to do.....good luck to them.

 

[InterMusketeer]

The people giving that kind of training are gonna be cashing that day.

Can't really say much about the incident itself. It sounds incredibly overblown to me, honestly. Is it bad that these guys were cuffed? Sure. Should all fricking stores close for some nonsense racial-bias training? That's going a bit far IMO. It's not like anyone died or got hurt.

 

[Moneal]

How long were the 2 there waiting for their friend? 20 mins 2 hrs, that is some pretty relevant info to this incident. Also were they asked to leave before the police were called? if they were just there 15-20 mins the approach of the staff that called the police is definitely in the wrong. but if they were just sitting around for an hr or more and didn't order anything the whole time its not wrong of them to be asked to leave, and to call the police if the didn't comply.

 

[Pejo]

Goes back into my theory that a lot of these issues we're having today are occurring because people totally forgot how to interact with each other in person in a real world scenario.

 

[rokkerkory]

Good on SB

 

[WowzerILove]

I see this issue where I work quite a bit. Lots of people who don't work, hang around near the Starbucks and Subway etc. they beg for change when ever you come out. I'm sure those places have had to deal with people coming in to get out of the cold or just sit and relax or even use the bathroom. If they have a sign on the door that says "Paying Customers Only" then they have every right to kick people out for loitering or trespassing on private property.

I know the video looks bad, but what if these guys came in that store all the time and were known to be trouble? What if they never bought anything and the employee noticed and then called the police out of fear of repercussion or the media shitstorm? I'm against profiling people based on color but I think there was more to it than that.

Dude just stop with all these what if statements, none of that matters. All that matters were that 2 black men were waiting for a friend and a starbucks manager called the police on them for no reason

 

[ReadingRambo]

Do we know that this is about race? Had the manager been allowing non-paying whites/others to loiter in their store? I only ask because closing 8,000 stores is a big decision and I think the decision was made for optical, rather than concrete/practical reasons. It's their business though, and in today's climate this might have been necessary to avoid a boycott/protests.

 

[Skyfox]

How long were they there without ordering? How busy was it? Were they asked to leave or order something before cops were called? Does the establishment have a history of allowing non-paying customers to use their facilities?

Those are the details I need before making judgement. Instead all I’ve read is racial outrage but no key details.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Dude just stop with all these what if statements, none of that matters. All that matters were that 2 black men were waiting for a friend and a starbucks manager called the police on them for no reason

Indeed.

(8000 stores)(# of employees per store paid for on-the-clock racial sensitivity training) + (number of sales lost for those 8000 stores while they are closed) = $$$how seriously Starbucks is taking this matter$$$.

Fortune 500 companies do not make arbitrary investments like this. You do not become, or stay Fortune 500 by spending money frivolously.

 

[Moneal]

Indeed.

(8000 stores)(# of employees per store paid for on-the-clock racial sensitivity training) + (number of sales lost for those 8000 stores while they are closed) = $$$how seriously Starbucks is taking this matter$$$.

Fortune 500 companies do not make arbitrary investments like this. You do not become, or stay Fortune 500 by spending money frivolously.

this has nothing to do with how serious they are or aren't taking the issue actually, its all about cash.

they think: (8000 stores)(# of employees per store paid for on-the-clock racial sensitivity training) + (number of sales lost for those 8000 stores while they are closed) < cost of negative press and boycotts.

 

[buizel]

Are you sure it's not cause all Starbucks prices are highway robbery?

 

[camelCase]

Were the handcuffed asked to leave and didn't comply or something ?

 

[DiscoJer]

This seems like collective punishment. One store manager out of 8000 does something arguably wrong (calling police on loiterers who didn't leave when asked) and every employee gets treated like they did something wrong.

Of course, it's all theater and PR. They need to show their customer base they are really "woke"

 

[JORMBO]

I don't think it is unreasonable to ask someone to leave who isn't ordering anything. Whenever I am going to meet someone at a coffee shop of similiar place I always wait outside for them so I am not wasting a table.

 

[Smoke6]

The people giving that kind of training are gonna be cashing that day.

Can't really say much about the incident itself. It sounds incredibly overblown to me, honestly. Is it bad that these guys were cuffed? Sure. Should all fricking stores close for some nonsense racial-bias training? That's going a bit far IMO. It's not like anyone died or got hurt.

You can’t be serious!

 

[Musky_Cheese]

How long were they there without ordering? How busy was it? Were they asked to leave or order something before cops were called? Does the establishment have a history of allowing non-paying customers to use their facilities?

Those are the details I need before making judgement. Instead all I’ve read is racial outrage but no key details.

Apparently (if I read it right) the worker never asked them anything before calling the police. They asked to use the restroom and were told they had to buy something, so they sat down.

Although I would agree with you... would like more details

 

[bucyou]

Dude just stop with all these what if statements, none of that matters. All that matters were that 2 black men were waiting for a friend and a starbucks manager called the police on them for no reason

While we are at it, why dont you stop with your alternative reality? They were waiting for a friend, asked to use restroom, was turned down due to not making a purchase, sat again still without making a purchase, manager asked them to leave since theres no loitering, they refused, so manager called the police. Its (not so) shocking that you left out the meat of the issue.

I know it doesnt fit your narrative of "starbucks while black", but you can try to change the loitering laws if you want to make a difference.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

While we are at it, why dont you stop with your alternative reality? They were waiting for a friend, asked to use restroom, was turned down due to not making a purchase, sat again still without making a purchase, manager asked them to leave since theres no loitering, they refused, so manager called the police. Its (not so) shocking that you left out the meat of the issue.

I know it doesnt fit your narrative of "starbucks while black", but you can try to change the loitering laws if you want to make a difference.

I read the manager didn't ask them to leave. Am I misinformed?

 

[TrainedRage]

Dude just stop with all these what if statements, none of that matters. All that matters were that 2 black men were waiting for a friend and a starbucks manager called the police on them for no reason

There ABSOLUTELY was a reason(s). Fear, racism and workplace rules. What REALLY matters is that a private establishment like Starbucks has the right to refuse service and has the right to kick out customers for loitering or trespassing. These guys were there, never paid for anything and expected to use the bathroom. Starbucks had every right to ask them to leave. It's why the police were able to 'kick them out' in the first place and why the two guys can't sue. Places have rules. Follow them. Pretty simple.

Maybe the employee had a racial bias, maybe they did it out of fear. Either way they were within their rights to do what they did. Did it look hella bad? Yep. Do they have to have sensitivity training now? Yep. Are people boycotting Starbucks? Yep.

 

[Demojay13]

So the manager asked them to leave the store as they are allowed to doas per police statement. The two men refused so the manager called the police who arrived and then again asked them to leave but they refused. Police had no other choice at this point to arrest them, normal people would have just moved on .

 

[hammysaurusrex]

Meh, businesses are not stupid. If someone uses Starbucks as a meet-up spot without the intention of buying something, the probability they will buy a Starbucks something anyway is is anywhere from 0% to 100% - if they do the meet-up somewhere that is not Starbucks, the chance they buy something from Starbucks is 0% to 0%. The idea that they should prosecute every single non-purchaser on the grounds they are loitering in their store is comically naive - the goal of a business is first and foremost to get people in the door.

The people claiming "aw shucks, just be good boys and girls and follow company policy at all times" aren't making a convincing case - if you were, Starbucks wouldn't be jumping through hoops right now to fix this PR fiasco. I imagine they have a better grasp on the financial stakes of taking this seriously vs. ignoring it compared to the arm-chair CEOs on the internet.

 

[mushy tailspin]

I get kicked out of Starbucks all the time. Only been arrested there once when I od'd in the restroom with my back against the door

 

[pramod]

Has the whole series of events ever been publicized? If they were just a bunch of people minding their own business sitting in a half-empty Starbucks, I highly highly doubt Starbucks would just decide that they've sat their too long without buying anything and want to get rid of them. I've never seen anything like that happen before in any coffee shop I've been to.

 

[pramod]

I get kicked out of Starbucks all the time. Only been arrested there once when I od'd in the restroom with my back against the door

I've never seen Starbucks kick anyone out in all my years frequenting there...

 

[TrainedRage]

I get kicked out of Starbucks all the time. Only been arrested there once when I od'd in the restroom with my back against the door

lol you sound like a fun guy!

 

[mushy tailspin]

I've never seen Starbucks kick anyone out in all my years frequenting there...

I use their internet, and rr without ordering they usually give me an hour or 2

 

[Vicetrailia]

The manager never asked them to leave. They called the police with no warning.

Another person was allowed in the bathroom without paying anything first.

A woman was sitting there for hours without paying anything and wasn't asked to leave.

You shouldn't single someone out. Good on Starbucks for reacting to this embarrassing issue.

 

[Smoke6]

I have been in Starbucks conducting business on my laptop without a purchase several times and have never been asked to leave or buy something!

And there are quite a few out here where I am and they all never gave a damn!

 

[Moneal]

The manager never asked them to leave. They called the police with no warning.

Another person was allowed in the bathroom without paying anything first.

A woman was sitting there for hours without paying anything and wasn't asked to leave.

You shouldn't single someone out. Good on Starbucks for reacting to this embarrassing issue.

got any links, haven't seen any of this reported yet?

 

[camelCase]

I get kicked out of Starbucks all the time. Only been arrested there once when I od'd in the restroom with my back against the door

10/10

 

[Musky_Cheese]

got any links, haven't seen any of this reported yet?

Local story link in OP. But it’s the story of a customers viewpoint I believe

 

[It's Jeff]

This is cool by me. They're a private business, and if they think the matter deserves examination in greater detail, let them. The government didn't mandate this training and I can get a cafe au lait somewhere else on the 29th. As long as the employees get a paid day out of the whole thing, it's no big deal to me.

Just don't start up the shit where you're writing the race messages on the cups again. I don't even think that made it off the ground, it was such a bad idea.

 

[TheShadowLord]

got any links, haven't seen any of this reported yet?

 

[jufonuk]

Again, don’t train the people in Starbucks train the police.

 

[WaterAstro]

Oh, I thought it was permanently which would be insane. That's good for them to do this.

 

[Moneal]

Local story link in OP. But it’s the story of a customers viewpoint I believe

the story didn't say that they were or were not asked to leave. while the nbcnews story mentioned they were asked to leave then the police were called.

The two men, whose identities have not been released, were arrested Thursday after a Starbucks manager called 911 because they were sitting inside the store, had not bought anything and refused to leave, according to police.

....

video didn't mention any of the things i quoted.

 

[ickythingz]

In this same line of reasoning, now Starbucks can begin letting the homeless use the restrooms. Will help SF a lot with this problem. Good on you Starbucks. I applaud this logic. Oh and god help Starbucks if they do not open their doors to community of black homeless.

 

[mushy tailspin]

the story didn't say that they were or were not asked to leave. while the nbcnews story mentioned they were asked to leave then the police were called.




video didn't mention any of the things i quoted.

First thing in the video is "without buying anything first." It's hard to stop someone that makes a b line for the restroom

 

[Phoenix RISING]

OP has been updated with pertinent info.

175,000 employees will undergo this training. That's a minimum of $1,000,000 in training in labor alone.


Applause.

 

[take_it_easy]

I can't wait until these baristas are automated. Then this kind of thing won't even be an issue.

 

[prag16]

I have to laugh at the people lavishing praise on the company for their alleged woke-ness. This is strictly about the bottom line. They think the cost of the training plus the opportunity cost of closing the stores that day will be less than the cost of all the negative press and potential boycotts they expect if they don't. That's it. There is no altruism here, of any kind.

 

[Dunki]

Ok in Germany we will get police reports that are often public for these kind of arrests. IS there anything like that? And no I do not trust American News media nor do I trust some tweet much anymore.

Here is the deal.
If they were asked to leave and did not its on them
If they did not aks to leave its on the employee

But I still think it is ridiculous to spend money on something that should be common knowledge.

 

[mushy tailspin]

Ok in Germany we will get police reports that are often public for these kind of arrests. IS there anything like that? And no I do not trust American News media nor do I trust some tweet much anymore.

Here is the deal.
If they were asked to leave and did not its on them
If they did not aks to leave its on the employee

But I still think it is ridiculous to spend money on something that should be common knowledge.

You can go to the county jail page and search inmates by name free. Besides that I don't think so. Even a background check only gives info and outcome of case. No idea how you see the police report

 

[Dunki]

You can go to the county jail page and search inmates by name free. Besides that I don't think so. Even a background check only gives info and outcome of case. No idea how you see the police report

Oh ok. For the cologne mass sexual assault as big example the police normally publishes controversial cases. There we got I think a 150 pages PDF file about the event.

 

[LegendOfKage]

Adherence to policy is the best way to fight discrimination. The moment you ignore some people's actions and challenge others is the moment you've created a bias and an unfairness, intentional or not.

If there is a policy regarding waiting inside Starbucks without purchasing anything, that policy needs to always be enforced, or it needs to be removed.

Either this manager was right for following official store policy, was wrong for making up her own policy (in which case, she should be fired), or was wrong for applying store policy with a bias (in which case, she should be fired).

I'm not about to jump to any conclusions based on very little evidence, other than the word "reportedly," but a full investigation should absolutely take place. She had better hope her employees have some stories of her asking white non-customers to leave, and even that might not help her in the "immediately guilty" world of social media. And let's be honest, plain old regular media as well.

 

[llien]

PR move to recover from bad press.

2 black men were waiting for a friend and a starbucks manager called the police on them for no reason

The manager never asked them to leave. They called the police with no warning.

Wrong:

The two men had not ordered immediately upon arriving, as they were still waiting for Yaffe. While they waited for him, "a white female manager who was on duty at the time" asked them to leave, said Wimmer.

When they said they were just waiting for another person to arrive before ordering, she phoned the police, Wimmer said.

Sauce

A woman was sitting there for hours without paying anything and wasn't asked to leave.

You shouldn't single someone out.

Yes, if true, but given the "with no warning" is likely made up, so could the other statements.