It's confusing, that's all.
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LOreal Drops Transgender Model After All White People Racism Post
- Thread starter DogDude
- Start date
It's confusing, that's all.
To the bolded: Because this thread is about someone adressing "ALL white people" as racist, and there are people in here agreeing with her, and it seemed to me you are one of them. Since I'm considered white by everyone who would see me in real life (and I've experienced shit because of that and experienced shit because of my minioriy name and heritage, because life sucks sometimes) I felt like you meant me as well.
I'm one of these white people you say "could change things", and it's kinda narrow minded. I would love to change things, but I'm not every white person on earth.
All i can do is trying to engage in discussioins or go to demonstrations and vote for what I think is best for my country. That's why I say white people are no hivemind.
Sure, if every white person on earth would stand up tomorrow and decide to make this a better place for everyone then yeah...But to say it's white people's fault as a whole that that miracle doesn't happen is strange to say the least, and yeah, I kinda have to deny that.
It's great you acknowledge you don't know me, just like I don't know you. Others in this thread (who some of already blocked me it seems) felt like they know who and what I am and that I'd have to atone for sins i didn't commit because of my skin color and that I'm not a "true ally" if i don't.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
lmao
got some work to do tomorrow morning, gotta go around town to tell all those priveledged homeless people how good they got it.
Pretty much agree with you entirely, if I'm understanding you right, anyways. This is completely unrelated to the topic at hand, but another lexical oddity that gets me (personally) is when people use PoC to define anyone not 'white', when they're referring to a specific group of people. I get the purpose(try to unite racial minorities under one banner against racial injustice), but the cynic in me just sees it used to tie the sins of institutional (and in the past, direct) racism against Black America as a direct target against all racial minorities. I get why people do this, and it IS a good thing, don't get me wrong, but man, you don't have to steer me psychologically to get my sympathy and support. I'm going to give it to you anyway, but I know that your struggles as a black person aren't the same as my struggles as a brown Hispanic. Outside of presenting a united front against racism of all kinds, trying to lump ourselves together among ourselves and implying/stating that we have similar pasts and problems would make people stare at you like you're an imbecile. Black America for obvious reasons, have suffered far worse than most other minorities in the US. The cynic in me can't help but bite at the term, good intentions (and results) aside.
WrenchNinja
Member
L'oreAl seems pretty garbo here
MikeBreezy92
Member
Dude we've been trying to tailor words to the audience for years and it's tiring. We can be as peaceful, cordial, polite, and as choosy with word choice as we want with these kinds of conversations and people really don't wanna see themselves as a beneficiary of anything if they feel like they haven't had it easy or feel like they've done any wrong.
That's why I see people seeing themselves more so as a individual as the crux of these issues because if people can't see past themselves and think "well I'm not -ist, you shouldn't call everyone -ist" then they aren't thinking of everyone. They put themselves first more often than not.
Statistically less likely to die during a police interaction?
Wont get turned down looking for a job offer because of his race?
His homelessness wont be used to paint his entire race and therefore will make it more likely people perceive him as down on his luck rather than destined to poverty?
Wont be eyed or treated with suspicion because of his race?
Friend, there's a reason a lot of posters on Gaming side don't come to Off-Topic. And there's a reason why we have ban waves whenever some alt-right shitlord drops something imbecilic tangentially related to video games, so it doesn't end up in Off-Topic.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
When assuming L'oreal meant what they said about representing diversity but then drop you after being too blunt with white folks goes wrong.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I see you haven't met Diablos911.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Yeah, it's gotten quite terrible.
But, it's what the forum owner wants, so that's what it will be.
Bringing up homeless people as the anchor of an argument when trying to discuss the issues of white privilege is being disingenuous. It begs the question "what is your point?" Homeless people are more important than racism or white privilege, is that your argument? Because it sounds more like deflection to me.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
Don't forget the statistically lower chance of becoming homeless in the first place.
Sure haven't! I searched for his posts but it didn't return results.
I got beaten to it but Black Lives Matter proves that no matter what you do or what you say, if someone wants to get their underwear in a bunch, they'll do so no matter what terminology you use. I don't think a renaming of the concept(s) will be helpful.
How is it different? Doesn't it exactly prove that point? In both circumstances, drugs came in and ruined lives. People lost their jobs, their homes and even their lives. Everybody in both circumstances deserves empathy and help from their fellow man and the government. However, if you were Black, overall, you were shown very little sympathy and the full force of "Law and Order" was used against you. Now that we have a similar issue hitting mostly White people, politicians are bending over backwards to help (as they should). Of course Trump is incompetent and Sessions is an asshole so opioid victims might not get the help they need. But if there was a component administration in charge, Republican or Democrat, money to deal with opioids would already be flowing.
I feel I should also highlight how racial politics plays into government overall. You do know the main reason that so many people vote for "small government" is because they think "those people" are getting undue benefits right? Lots of right/center-right White voters vote to cut the social safety net because they think PoC are reaping the benefits when, statically and just as a function of numbers, White people use the social safety net more because there are more of them. PoC who are downtrodden, poor, homeless, etc. are more likely to be seen as "lazy" or as "thieves". That assumption of innocence is not something poor PoC often get. A recent example of how race and size of government playout can be seen in this super recent article talking about Trump and his OMB director.
You want another example of how Black people "down on their luck" and White people "down on their luck" are treated/viewed (relevant given the recent hurricane):
A mistake often made here is thinking that everyone posting on this topic will be American.
MikeBreezy92
Member
His point was that a homeless white man has no privilege which couldn't be further from the truth. But here we are.
Albino_Yeti
Member
Maybe they just don't want to get into conversations where people claim that all white people are racist.
Seriously. This thread is blowing my mind. All white people are racist?? Seriously?? Gaf baby, what is u doin?
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Probably because I got his name wrong. It's something with numbers after it. Could have sworn it was 911.
Edit: oh it's diablos991. And looks like he was banned abouts a week ago.
That's too bad.
notreallythatbad
Surely one of the posters here is American
-In America the police interaction should be true, yes.
I don't think any homeless person get's job offerings, no matter the skin color. Getting 0 offerings or potential less than zero makes no difference.
- Youre right about that one I guess,
- I think every homeless person is eyed or treated that way.
I'd rather not talk about homeless people aanymore anyway. The fact this even became a point of discussion in this thread is ridiculous.
But what does that have to do with the discussion of white privilege? Unless you are using that to say white privilege doesn't exist it really doesn't serve anything except deflection.
They definitely exist
100%
Of course but this is a L'Oreal Paris UK representative talking about America.
excelsiorlef
Member
Lol GAF... this thread is like 80% on your side but sure GAF
MikeBreezy92
Member
Because of classism typically but racism in some form can always slide its way in.
Shits like inception man it's never just one -ism it's usually coupled in together one just over the other.
MikeBreezy92
Member
No they were definitely going towards it doesn't exist....
Oops sorry for the double post.
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
No one has said that white privilege doesn't exist.
The person in the OP said that white privilege is so pervasive that not only are all white people complicit and racist but also a large portion of people of color of a specific skin type.
Even the picture of two different people securing food in a flood is dubious.
The method of reporting on the black man or the white woman does not make the white woman automatically racist (which is what this thread is about) nor does it benefit the white woman's actually existing situation of having to scrounge for food.
So not only is your only argument to treat people other than you like they're dumb, but now you're having to make up my argument for me.
I never once said that white privilege doesn't exist, I've only stated that at some point it becomes merely sanctimonious, substanceless, insincere pandering
If course, the discussion on the politics of a female trans PoC opting to become the face of a corporation which has a history of racism & sexism, that sells products using techniques that engender and reinforce personal insecurities make not in women but latterly also men, and still tests on animals where local regulations allow it isn't happening at all.
The people saying word for word, yes, all white people are racist, are simply not worth listening to. Hell, even the topic of conversation, this lady in question, clarifies her original statement which was bordering on word spaghetti, into something that isn't all that objectionable in her follow-up because even she knows that shit sounds deranged on paper as it was presented by others. Pretending all of OT is this way is tripe though. If it was, I'd have dipped long ago. That said, there's a few posters on OT that tapdance on the line of implying it and they know who they are. Hell, most people in this thread, me included, think the original statement is loaded af and bananas. I can largely agree with her followup though.
It can, yes. It certainly does more often than not, especially in America, but it's not a constant. The same way white privileges for homeless people aren't.
That's really the last post I make about the homeless topic, because the first time it got brought up I already thought that it's ridiculous.
MikeBreezy92
Member
It ties back to the individuality part of the discussion which is a white privilege.
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
You keep moving the goal posts.
So not only is your only argument to treat people other than you like they're dumb, but now you're having to make up my argument for me.
I never once said that white privilege doesn't exist, I've only stated that at some point it becomes merely sanctimonious, substanceless, insincere pandering
Albino_Yeti
Member
True, obviously not everyone in this thread is echoing that sentiment. I just have a habit of referring to Gaf as a collective sometimes lol.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
The point is to highlight the absurdity of oppression olympics. It's an absurd scenario to imagine a homeless man, who are at the lowest of society somehow introspect that he could have somehow had in worse.
If you get a terrible disease, you don't spend time thinking about about diseases that are worse. You're focused on what you have and what affects you.
The existence of others suffering more, doesn't excuse your own, and that is the dog whistle here- Where you have to argue if this method of communicating is helpful at all.
I'd argue that it is not, and I think the term does a lot bad than good, due to its accusatory and generalized nature.
Regardless of what people say about how it's supposed to be intended or interpretated is really of no concern to those who have to receive the message. The onus is always on the sender who tries to convey information.
excelsiorlef
Member
Umm people have openly admitted they have in the past.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
The white people in the pictures likely wouldn't be harassed or automatically assumed to be a thief like the black people in the picture. It's pervasive.
Admitting it? How sad.
It's called backpedalling.
Also ironic that this person was perfectly happy to represent a company that was founded by a Nazi (either they did no research or simply wanted that sweet sweet money) but then shits the bed when they get fired for making an idiotic "edgy" post.
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
This is a good way of putting it. But the goal posts in the argument keep moving. The argument in the OP was "all white people and many people of color are complicit in racism and are benefiting from it so they're racist".
That's bunk. The rest is just various methods to show the outlandishness of that line of thinking. Condolezza Rice being at a disadvantage even though she was one of the most politically powerful people in the world and is ridiculously rich. Homeless people. Etc.
MikeBreezy92
Member
To what? My point has always been that whenever the "all white people" thing comes up people and not just white people get their panties in the bunch because they think generalizations = bad across the board.
My point is that if white people in this instance stopped seeing themselves as individuals(which is a white privilege) and take things like this so personally every time that statement is made then we can make some head way.
excelsiorlef
Member
Saying white people have white privilege regardless of class status isn't oppression Olympics.
Saying that class status determines which white people have white privilege is though
A thread can be about more than one thing (I'm not super interested in talking about the words of the model - especially since she cleaned it up with the follow-up post). One subject of this thread is what is Racial Privilege and how is it expressed. It became a subject when people starting asking if White (race) homeless (a statement about class) people can have racial privilege. You say you understand White Privilege but then every-time people give you examples of it you say they are wrong, posturing or deflect with a statement about class. If you're White & Poor the government is more likely to help you, police are less inclined to fuck with you, people are less likely to vote to spite you (though also end up hurting themselves) and people are less likely to assume you are lazy and/or a criminal. How is that not Racial Privilege?
ForsakenLotus
Member
I wish we could have a discussion about the tragedy of essentially all POC and how white people, as general as that is, is the predominant cause of all of this suffering and acknowledge how it has created systemic obstacles that are really, really difficult for us to overcome as a society/human race; but we need to be able to do this without calling all white people racist, calling all white people complicit because of the heritage or saying that it's white fragility to be upset with such incredible generalizations.
Yes, POC have been screwed over. But I'M not a racist because of what other people do. I'M not a racist because society as a whole creates both subtle and overt hurdles for POC. I'M not a racist because of what anybody else did, even my direct ancestors. I don't know why some in here are okay with the idea that all white people share some level of guilt because of the things. It's illogical, and really even more it's intellectually dishonest.
I want a world where POC don't have barriers. Or trans. Or gay. Or different cultures or religions. Or anybody. And society is progressing far too slow. But making racist statements, or at best accidentally inciting remarks about race, isn't okay because the other side experiences racism.
Racism in all forms is bad. I get that white people haven't suffered 1/100th the racism as POC, but that doesn't mean suddenly it's okay to start being racist towards white people. And I really can't stand those, though I'm not sure I've seen it in this thread (haven't read every post), that criticize white people for being offended on the basis that it's nothing compared to what others have faced. I'll say it again, racism in all forms is bad. Don't propagate racism because white people (or whoever) have had it good or because it's relatively insignificant compared to things like slavery.
Yes, POC have been screwed over. But I'M not a racist because of what other people do. I'M not a racist because society as a whole creates both subtle and overt hurdles for POC. I'M not a racist because of what anybody else did, even my direct ancestors. I don't know why some in here are okay with the idea that all white people share some level of guilt because of the things. It's illogical, and really even more it's intellectually dishonest.
I want a world where POC don't have barriers. Or trans. Or gay. Or different cultures or religions. Or anybody. And society is progressing far too slow. But making racist statements, or at best accidentally inciting remarks about race, isn't okay because the other side experiences racism.
Racism in all forms is bad. I get that white people haven't suffered 1/100th the racism as POC, but that doesn't mean suddenly it's okay to start being racist towards white people. And I really can't stand those, though I'm not sure I've seen it in this thread (haven't read every post), that criticize white people for being offended on the basis that it's nothing compared to what others have faced. I'll say it again, racism in all forms is bad. Don't propagate racism because white people (or whoever) have had it good or because it's relatively insignificant compared to things like slavery.
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
This thread isn't about "white people". It's about a woman going so far into substance-less politics that she even labels people of color as being racist and benefiting from privilege.
Generalities don't do anything to solve the problem. The same people who sold Black Americans crack are the same people selling White Americans dope.
You are implying homeless people never try to get jobs. They do try, and when they do, the white person--while he may be turned down for some other reason--wont be turned down because of his race, making it more likely the white person will be able to lift himself from homelessness than the POC.
->
But not every homeless person is eyed with suspicion because of his race.
What on earth do you mean by this? I get the first part but lol that second part...
MikeBreezy92
Member
So yeah, umm racism doesn't work like that. Everyone can be discriminatory or prejudiced but in the current power dynamic we have minorities cannot be racist towards the majority or white people.
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