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Digital Foundry: Xbox Scorpio

T

TheSpecialOne

Banned
Luckydog said:
Aaaaaaand....No. I get it. You are both upset that something can ever be said positive about a MS product. At the end of the day these are a solid set of specs for a mid gen update presented in a way that came off much better than the ps4 pro reveal. This doesn't make Sony a shit company. It means MS did a good job this particular time and they should have their day. Next up is actual software.
Click to expand...
Umm, please go read my post where I clearly declared it as the most powerful console. My disdain with the dreadful coverage has everything to do with the laughable comparisons to a high end gaming PC and the perpetuation of untrue fantasies. The PS4 pro has absolutely nothing to do with this and initially I vocally advocated against the PS4 pro so yea.... you're misguided.
 
S

Space_nut

Member
Electret said:
Mixed feelings on the spec reveal.

Though I had some hope they'd use Puma or Excavator, I didn't think Zen would make the cut, so Jaguar is not shocking. I am surprised the GPU is not Vega based, though. Do we know if the GPU has Vega features, a la the Pro GPU (FP16), or hardware support for sparse rendering? Much ado was made about the 2017 release being precisely what enabled upgrades beyond Pro in each of the CPU, GPU, and RAM, and Phil was quoted speaking directly to that. Nevertheless, they hit 6TF, which is ultimately what matters for the GPU.

Hardware support for DX12 in the CPU is intriguing, but it materializing into anything substantial across a wide selection of games is a claim best taken with a grain of salt until proven otherwise. To me, numbers like the 50% reduction in draw call workload seems pretty scenario specific, and every platform holder has been guilty at some point of touting custom features beyond practical application. We shall see.

The cooling system is an impressive surprise, as are the clocks enabled by it. I completely expected a fat (50+ CU) GPU with ~900 Mhz clocks. Very curious to see what kind of TDP and noise results.

16x AF and standardized downsampling are very welcome. Sony needs to figure out the latter; there's no reason games should omit the feature if they're not allocating horsepower somewhere else.

On another note, I hope the insider vetting that has characterized GAF for some time has not ended with Bish's departure, because a lot of Scorpio threads were plagued by some seriously stinky bullshit that weren't met with the necessary scrutiny. Lo and behold, faux insiders didn't have the bead on the inclusion of Zen or the CPU otherwise not being Jaguar, nor did MS substantially exceed 6TF (someone claimed 8 - lol!).
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The CPU has many features that are not available in today's gpu cards. It seems DF will release more articles about the GPU and CPU to go further into detail about the specs. But it already has features seen in pro like the color decompression blocks
 
B

badb0y

Member
So basically after all the speculation in he past year the CPU was Jaguar+ and the GPU was Polaris. I'm kinda disappointed honestly.
 
R

Ricky Ricardo

Member
TheSpecialOne said:
If this were any other poster, I would try to articulate my points and provide sufficient evidence to back up my claims but I won't bother. You're a well known advocate of the Xbox on this forum. You were banned several times in the lead up to the release of the xb1 and post release for your biased posts. I'm not going to even bother.
Click to expand...

This is actually ironic, coming from you; considering your own posting history and documented bias.
 
W

Wedzi

Banned
BeforeU said:
I wonder if we will get new article tomorrow. DF didnt even touch VR yet
Click to expand...

I bet we won't here anything til E3 and even then I bet they'll be just showing off a couple of games and using the Microsoft branded VR headsets. But I wouldn't be surprised to see Scorpio make an appearance at Oculus Connect this year.
 
B

Brad Grenz

Member
Loch Doun said:
Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

hotk3ny.gif
Click to expand...

I can post images, too!

AMD-GCN-3Th.png
 
SenjutsuSage

SenjutsuSage

Banned
Metfanant said:
Come on dude...you've been driving a dump truck full of salt for the past 4 years...can we stop?
Click to expand...

Actually, I haven't at all. I don't go around shitting on other consoles and their games out of a dislike for the company or their console. I support what I like, and don't go shit up other threads just because it's about something I'm not a fan of. You and others can keep up that talking point that somehow I do this kind of stuff, but it still won't be true. I see people getting mad as hell only because Scorpio looks impressive and DF was impressed with it? Jesus.. lol.
 
S

Space_nut

Member
badb0y said:
So basically after all the speculation in he past year the CPU was Jaguar+ and the GPU was Polaris. I'm kinda disappointed honestly.
Click to expand...

The GPU has features that aren't seen in any gpu card yet. This is like the 360 where tech seen is deeply customized and most likely will be seen in the pc space in the future. Again what did you expect? 15TF?
 
P

PopcornMegaphone

Banned
It's annoying when a few (overly?) optimistic performance comments in this thread are repeatably quoted when I think the vast majority of folks on here have reasonable expectations. The same goes for the actual specs MS delivered.

I also have quite a bit of respect for DF's reporting and some of the posts on here about them are absurd.
 
B

Bgamer90

Banned
Brad Grenz said:
If you're happy to be bamboozled by FUD from Microsoft, that's your business. Don't expect everyone else to blindly accept their misrepresentations of the technology. Xbox is supposedly in a new era of respect under Phil Spencer, but this article is straight from the Mattrick era playbook of media manipulation and obfuscation.
Click to expand...

Hahaha, oh boy. Conspiracy theories already. Amazing.
 
T

The Argus

Member
TheSpecialOne said:
If this were any other poster, I would try to articulate my points and provide sufficient evidence to back up my claims but I won't bother. You're a well known advocate of the Xbox on this forum. You were banned several times in the lead up to the release of the xb1 and post release for your biased posts. I'm not going to even bother.
Click to expand...

"Not going to even bother" would be ignoring the post all together.
 
S

supernormal

Member
TheSpecialOne said:
Yup, there is no special customization and no secret sauce. When it comes to companies making noteworthy hardware customizations in the console space, that usually comes from Sony as they are a hardware company.

In this thread, we already have people claiming that the Scorpio is more powerful than the gtx 1080, lol. It's been really embarrassing coverage from digital foundry. Let Microsoft advertise their products by themselves. What we don't need is df trying to pass a paid ad as fact. I can't till the die shots come out from chip works.

Already in another thread on this forum, the "ultra" claim has been debunked due to different lod levels between the PC version and the screenshot. The screenshot is at lod 1 like the regular xb1 while the PC operates at lod 0(higher). It's just the xbox version at 4k and there are also questions about the 16x af claims as well.

Look, the Scorpio looks to be a fantastic piece of kit for a mid gen upgrade but it's just an rx480 and an overclocked jaguar. It's not more powerful than a 1080 or 1070 and once third party games drop, it'll be clear for everyone to see.

All I've seen today is the same pr nonsense we've seen with other consoles. Fp16, huma, power of the cloud, dx12 patch, and now it's a special dx12 co processor which is just a regular command processor. It's just sad and annoying.
Click to expand...

The screenshot in the reveal is from Forza 6 running at 4k/60fps on regular X1 settings. There is no screenshot of the ultra setting or any claim that the screenshot revealed is ultra setting. What they did mention was that in ultra setting the game runs at almost 90% GPU and with the regular Xbox settings it's 60-70%.

So what are you talking about?
 
SenjutsuSage

SenjutsuSage

Banned
BeforeU said:
I wonder if we will get new article tomorrow. DF didnt even touch VR yet
Click to expand...

People seem mad, but I hope DF has 5 more fucking articles on scorpio news since it seems to piss people off so much. It's dumb as hell. When they write or talk about Sony, and sony goes and talks about all the stuff they did, nobody acts like this. I just find it funny.

Anyway, going to go check out some more of it. Still haven't seen all the stuff they put out today.

supernormal said:
The screenshot in revealed is from Forza 6 running at 4k/60fps on regular X1 settings. There is no screenshot of the ultra setting or any claim that the screenshot revealed is ultra setting. What they did mention was that in ultra setting the game runs at almost 90% GPU and with the regular Xbox settings it's 60-70%.

So what are you talking about?
Click to expand...

Exactly! That screenshot isn't of the enhanced 4K 60fps ULTRA PC equivalent that Leadbetter saw. That screenshot is 4K of the regular XB1 game with some added 4K assets. Nobody seems to be paying attention to that important detail.
 
T

timlot

Banned
SenjutsuSage said:
So much fucking salt. Mission Accomplished Microsoft. Mission fucking accomplished.
Click to expand...

Its pretty crazy. When I read some of these salty comments I just check the post history. Some of these folks have been working overtime today to downplay the news. Xbox fans can't even have a day. Don't worry we still don't have any exclusives. lol
 
B

badb0y

Member
Space_nut said:
The GPU has features that aren't seen in any gpu card yet. This is like the 360 where tech seen is deeply customized and most likely will be seen in the pc space in the future. Again what did you expect? 15TF?
Click to expand...
I was expecting Vega... Polaris is about to be outdated in like a month.

And stop taking Microsofts buzzwords as something new. You think Microsoft is putting stuff in the GPU that nVidia hasn't already implemented?
 
S

Space_nut

Member
supernormal said:
The screenshot in revealed is from Forza 6 running at 4k/60fps on regular X1 settings. There is no screenshot of the ultra setting or any claim that the screenshot revealed is ultra setting. What they did mention was that in ultra setting the game runs at almost 90% GPU and with the regular Xbox settings it's 60-70%.

So what are you talking about?
Click to expand...

Wrong

That screenshot was Forza 6 with DYNAMIC WEATHER added and 4k assets added (textures, reflection samples, cars)

Ultra setting was for Forza Apex with all the other features listed as well.
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
BeforeU said:
I wonder if we will get new article tomorrow. DF didnt even touch VR yet
Click to expand...

Sounds like there will be another video detailing what turn 10 squeezed out of the remaining gpu after the quickie 4k port at least
 
SenjutsuSage

SenjutsuSage

Banned
timlot said:
Its pretty crazy. When I read some of these salty comments I just check the post history. Some of these folks have been working overtime today to downplay the news. Xbox fans can't even have a day. Don't worry we still don't have any exclusives. lol
Click to expand...

lol dude. We exclusively have the most powerful console ever made with no exclusives. That's exclusive to us xbox fans. :p

And that's what's getting me. The post historys tell the whole story. It's so predictable. I was wrong about it having Zen, and apparently about it being Vega (which still surprises me), and I'm not going around bitter about it. I'm going to honor a game bet I lost with chobel, and I'm using the avatar that has been picked for me cause I lost an avatar bet also. This is about fun. People are taking it way too damn serious haha.
 
Nameless

Nameless

Member
PopcornMegaphone said:
It's annoying when a few (overly?) optimistic performance comments in this thread are repeatably quoted when I think the vast majority of folks on here have reasonable expectations. The same goes for the actual specs MS delivered.

I also have quite a bit of respect for DF's reporting and some of the posts on here about them are absurd.
Click to expand...

Equally annoying when the slightest bit of skepticism is met with accusations of being a salty console warrior. The last few pages have been rough.
 
T

TheSpecialOne

Banned
Ricky Ricardo said:
This is actually ironic, coming from you; considering your own posting history and documented bias.
Click to expand...

Ricky Ricardo, every human has a bias and to deny otherwise is a lie. It took only a few moments of me looking at your posts as well to notice a trend. The difference is that, when indisputable facts are presented, most rational humans adjust their view points to align with the facts. Unfortunately, that is not the case for our friend Senjutsu. I've read this guys posts for a long time and in the face of evidence, he disregards it and continues to pull up make believe "facts". This is why I'm not going to bother.
 
E

EASTC0AST_GH05T

Member
Fanyboyism is fucking stupid, we are all grown here, better competition makes it better for all gamers. Your preference or console of choice will only get better if the competition raises the bar.
 
S

Space_nut

Member
badb0y said:
I was expecting Vega... Polaris is about to be outdated in like a month.

And stop taking Microsofts buzzwords as something new. You think Microsoft is putting stuff in the GPU that nVidia hasn't already implemented?
Click to expand...

Yes they are. Having DX12 run on a hardware level on the GPU isn't done on any gpu yet. There's going to be more articles coming going deeper into the customizations to the CPU and GPU
 
demigod

demigod

Member
Brad Grenz said:
If you're happy to be bamboozled by FUD from Microsoft, that's your business. Don't expect everyone else to blindly accept their misrepresentations of the technology. Xbox is supposedly in a new era of respect under Phil Spencer, but this article is straight from the Mattrick era playbook of media manipulation and obfuscation.
Click to expand...

Mattrick is the guy that will talk shit in front of your face. Phil is the guy that pretends he's your friend but talk shit about you behind your back. Who would you rather have?
 
P

PopcornMegaphone

Banned
Nameless said:
Equally annoying when the slightest bit of skepticism is met with accusations of being a salty console warrior. The last few pages have been rough.
Click to expand...

What are people skeptical about? That it won't run as fast as a 1080? Well, yeah. DF never claimed as such, but a few posters may have wonder as much.

I guess that a huge problem or something.
 
L

Liabe Brave

Member
Digital Foundry said:
On the rear of the unit, the arrangement of ports is identical to Xbox One S, including the standard figure-eight power socket (as opposed to the much larger 'kettle' cable arrangement used on PS4 Pro). The thinking here is that those who've plumbed their Xbox One S into their AV set-up can swap over to Scorpio with next to no effort. Since port arrangement is based on Xbox One S, there's no return for the original Xbox One's Kinect port (a USB adapter is required) but the HDMI input is retained.
Click to expand...
So that means Scorpio will definitely not be able to use Oculus Rift. It doesn't have enough USB ports. If we go by the exploded render from Microsoft, it also seems to be missing the front USB of Xbox One S.
 
thelastword

thelastword

Banned
transformer said:
The digital foundry article has a few paragraphs on this exact topic. It discusses the "extensive customization" and additional hardware to offset CPU demand and improve CPU performance over the CPU in those consoles.
Click to expand...
I read it, what you've stated above is the extent of their explanation of it.....

Here's the thing...the Scorpio no longer has ESRAM, so it's obvious there would be more latency without it, but they had to design their system in such a way to offset that...So it's really not the case that they have some revolutionary new jaguar chip or jaguar evolved....

What they've done is to do away with DDR3 and opted for the faster GDDR5 and increased the amount for safe measure....The faster memory and faster GPU and slightly faster CPU will now work in tandem to offset any latency issues all because of the better hardware by and large...On the software-side, they can simply emulate 32GB of ESRAM for classic XB1 titles through their virtual machine to streamline BC.


So talk of lower latency is inherent of the better hardware, it's not any new hardware design or anything revolutionary...As a matter of fact if one wants to go into special hardware detail of speeding up communication and allying comms between CPU, GPU and Memory, Sony did something specific with it's memory subsystem where the CPU communicated with memory and vice versa over a 20 Gb/s bus...I've seen nothing detailed like that from MS in this reveal, but even if they happen to have a similar setup (which maybe they just have not explained), it's nothing new or something which have not been done before....

Hey, I wish to know the details of what they have here, but lots of the information thus far is vague about this cpu latency speak and dx12 speak, it reads too much like PR and secret sauce ramblings...In essence, something for fans of the console to latch unto without giving any concrete details...

Surely, Scorpio is a nice upgrade from XB1, but lets not get too caught on PR talk yet..We should be more interested in how it performs without any direction in the presentation from MS..Leadbetter hardly got any handson, pretty much all he told us was what he was told and what was shown to him. So you can imagine MS would want to ensure their reveal was shown in the best light....Again, not saying the Scorpio is not something to look forward to, but lets not be so quick to believe all what we read in a tailored writeup.

When tech sites, have the hardware and take it through it's paces with actual software, then we can take the results shown with all it's worth.
 
T

TheSpecialOne

Banned
supernormal said:
The screenshot in the reveal is from Forza 6 running at 4k/60fps on regular X1 settings. There is no screenshot of the ultra setting or any claim that the screenshot revealed is ultra setting. What they did mention was that in ultra setting the game runs at almost 90% GPU and with the regular Xbox settings it's 60-70%.

So what are you talking about?
Click to expand...

Looks like confusion on my end. I will edit the post.
 
P

Purest 78

Member
SenjutsuSage said:
I see people getting mad as hell only because Scorpio looks impressive and DF was impressed with it? Jesus.. lol.
Click to expand...

Question is are you impressed? I saw a tweet of yours today. In which you Said Scorpio would have Ryzen And a Vega GPU. You said no way MS could hit 6 tflops on the Gpu otherwise. Those are your words so I ask are you impressed?
 
M

Matt

Member
This thread is very fascinating to watch. Both completely predictable and still kinda shocking.

Glad this is all finally out there though.
 
S

soundscream

Member
TheSpecialOne said:
Yup, there is no special customization and no secret sauce. When it comes to companies making noteworthy hardware customizations in the console space, that usually comes from Sony as they are a hardware company.

In this thread, we already have people claiming that the Scorpio is more powerful than the gtx 1080, lol. It's been really embarrassing coverage from digital foundry. Let Microsoft advertise their products by themselves. What we don't need is df trying to pass a paid ad as fact. I can't till the die shots come out from chip works.

Already in another thread on this forum, the "ultra" claim has been debunked due to different lod levels between the PC version and the screenshot. The screenshot is at lod 1 like the regular xb1 while the PC operates at lod 0(higher). It's just the xbox version at 4k and there are also questions about the 16x af claims as well.

Look, the Scorpio looks to be a fantastic piece of kit for a mid gen upgrade but it's just an rx480 and an overclocked jaguar. It's not more powerful than a 1080 or 1070 and once third party games drop, it'll be clear for everyone to see.

All I've seen today is the same pr nonsense we've seen with other consoles. Fp16, huma, power of the cloud, dx12 patch, and now it's a special dx12 co processor which is just a regular command processor. It's just sad and annoying.
Click to expand...

The picture isnt of the ultra because the gpu isnt @ 88%, its just the regular 4k/60
 
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