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[MatrixMan.EXE]

A year old later... I was expecting zen/vega. But is ok, like the PS4Pro.

I feel your expectations were misplaced. I think going with Jaguar was the obvious route for this system, if only to keep costs down because it was clear from the announcement that they were going to put as much emphasis as possible on the GPU.

 

[transformer]

*You're

DF may have been impressed, but mostly because they have a poor underlying knowledge of GPU hardware. Anyone can google "command processor" and "execute indirect" and find information about Xbox One games from years ago being made using technology supposedly only just added to the Scorpio. The fact that Leadbetter failed to do so is just an indictment on his journalistic acumen.

Whatever helps you sleep at night. By all accounts MS is delivering or over delivering on what they announced at E3 last year. An independent, well respected, source confirms this. The console was developed in tandem with AMD to yield these optimizations and improvements and some initial, very impressive, results were shown to back this up. Anyone can google, but can other consoles play Forza on ultra settings at 4K/60? That's all I need to convince me. Show me the results. I don't care what a google search shows nor the "journalistic acumen" of someone reporting said results.

 

[TLZ]

Wait... people are mad that a high end gaming console exists ? and they're madder still that it's better than a PS4 pro ? despite having almost a year now knowing that it would be faster and better ?

... and these same people are blaming DF for confirming via an MS invitation to redmond that Scorpio is indeed a real console running at least 1 real game engine ?


I guess since I'm not 14 anymore I ... don't know what the big deal is ? If you don't want one don't buy one. If you can't afford one... don't buy one. If you want a PS4 pro instead.... go buy it, enjoy it !

Personally, I have to applaud the Phil Harrison turnaround the xbox division has had since the spring of 2014. During the dastardly don mattrick era we got served many smelly turds - Kinect, the original vision for XB1, Kinect 2.0, TVTVTVTV. But, clearly the PS4's success has humbled these guys - they did everything I felt needed to be done to win back their core audience. Dropping Kinect, lowering the price, lowering the price again, giving hit games away with the console, redesigning the whole thing to be a far better looking device and now with scorpio - sitting atop the "best hardware" throne once again. I mean, I suppose by 2011/12 the PS3 pushed to it's limits ever so slightly exceeded what the 360 could do but ... that was 6-7 years into last gens games.

I think it will restore a bit of balance and good old fashioned grit to the industry to have the xbox be a powerful bit of competition again this fall. Force sony to be more aggressive over the next 2-3 years as they build up the inevitable PS5.

Agreed. In the end this is all good for the consumer. Better aggressive competition brings out the best for us. Yet some people are too busy fighting "my dad is stronger than your dad" silliness. I don't mean to offend anyone with this, but some should seriously grow up and see the bigger picture here. Don't be too invested in silly pointless handbag fights. Be wise and simply invest and enjoy the best of tech we have today

 

[onanie]

I feel your expectations were misplaced. I think going with Jaguar was the obvious route for this system, if only to keep costs down because it was clear from the announcement that they were going to put as much emphasis as possible on the GPU.

Why was it misplaced? Plenty of people here expected it. At least one lost an avatar bet on it.

 

[Metfanant]

And for the first time this entire generation Xbox is going to consistently come on top with essentially every face off.

Given the reactions in this and other threads that's probably going to be very difficult for certain people to take

Can we stop this ridiculousness please??...

Please don't act like Xbox fans have not been trying to downplay DF articles for the past 4 years...just like Sony fans had to downplay DF articles for almost all of last generation...

In 2-3 years Xbox fans will once again have to downplay DF articles when the PS5 launches and trounces Scorpio...

Followed by Sony fans downplaying DF articles...then Xbox fans...and so on and so forth...

I honestly wonder if people either A. Have terrible memories, or B. Are really so wrapped up in their blind brand loyalty that they don't even realize their own hypocrisy

 

[IbizaPocholo]

Can't you use a headset for that now?

Yes, but is more comfortable to not use a headset for that if you are not in a party speaking and you are alone.

 

[Doffen]

What is this post?

A response to something SenjutsuSage said in another Scorpio thread.

 

[def sim]

y'all hold some video game grudges huh

 

[onanie]

Whatever helps you sleep at night. By all accounts MS is delivering or over delivering on what they announced at E3 last year. An independent, well respected, source confirms this. The console was developed in tandem with AMD to yield these optimizations and improvements and some initial, very impressive, results were shown to back this up. Anyone can google, but can other consoles play Forza on ultra settings at 4K/60? That's all I need to convince me. Show me the results. I don't care what a google search shows nor the "journalistic acumen" of someone reporting said results.

Well...

Already in another thread on this forum, the "ultra" claim has been debunked due to different lod levels between the PC version and the screenshot. The screenshot is at lod 1 like the regular xb1 while the PC operates at lod 0(higher). It's just the xbox version at 4k and there are also questions about the 16x af claims as well.

It seems no console in existence (not even the upcoming one) can run Forza on ultra settings at 4K/60

 

[Wedzi]

Yup, there is no special customization and no secret sauce. When it comes to companies making noteworthy hardware customizations in the console space, that usually comes from Sony as they are a hardware company.

In this thread, we already have people claiming that the Scorpio is more powerful than the gtx 1080, lol. It's been really embarrassing coverage from digital foundry. Let Microsoft advertise their products by themselves. What we don't need is df trying to pass a paid ad as fact. I can't till the die shots come out from chip works.

Already in another thread on this forum, the "ultra" claim has been debunked due to different lod levels between the PC version and the screenshot. The screenshot is at lod 1 like the regular xb1 while the PC operates at lod 0(higher). It's just the xbox version at 4k and there are also questions about the 16x af claims as well.

Look, the Scorpio looks to be a fantastic piece of kit for a mid gen upgrade but it's just an rx480 and an overclocked jaguar. It's not more powerful than a 1080 or 1070 and once third party games drop, it'll be clear for everyone to see.

All I've seen today is the same pr nonsense we've seen with other consoles. Fp16, huma, power of the cloud, dx12 patch, and now it's a special dx12 co processor which is just a regular command processor. It's just sad and annoying.

Can we stop with this notion that Microsoft is some software company that makes sub par hardware. It isn't 2006 anymore. Surface Pro 4, Surface Book, and Surface Studio are all great top of the line products that I would wager are more advanced than anything Sony has put out in a long while as far as consumer products go.

 

[Prologue]

Every Xbone and 360 game will benefit from the increase in power and performance... Oh, and every Xbone and 360 game you can currently play on Xbone will be playable on Scorpio.

Xbox One and Xbox 360 games running on Scorpio benefit from:

1. Smoother performance (within the games' frame-rate targets) and no screen-tearing
2. Maximum possible resolution on dynamic titles
3. Improved texture filtering (16x anisotropic filtering)
4. Scorpio GameDVR support (up to 4K, 60fps, HDR, and the ability to select individual frames for screenshots)
5. Faster loading

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...-five-ways-your-existing-games-will-be-better

*thinks about sunset overdrive

 

[notaskwid]

What is this post?

A response to this.

I believe Scorpio could do Horizen Zero Dawn at 4K 60FPS. No inside knowledge stuff. Just my belief. The same game, exactly as it appears on PS4 Pro, no visual changes, can be done on Scorpio at 4K and 60fps.

Thread is already locked.

 

[onanie]

Can we stop with this notion that Microsoft is some software company that makes sub par hardware. It isn't 2006 anymore. Surface Pro 4, Surface Book, and Surface Studio are all great top of the line products that I would wager are more advanced than anything Sony has put out in a long while as far as consumer products go.

They did make the xbone...

 

[trixx]

They gotta show the package I want to see what it looks like, soon. Hopefully it manages to be small and nice looking like the one s

 

[Mrbob]

I'd like to see some details on these modifications. Curious how far MS pushed the Jaguar.

What is this post?

SenjutsuSage was taking his crazy pills again for awhile.

 

[Poster#1]

So now DF is bought out by MS? Are you guys for real? Wtf is going on? All of the sudden question DF integrity?

 

[Maximus P]

Maybe an unpopular opinion but I'd love to play Ryse in 4k. Would be glorious.

Can't wait for E3 to see what they have planned.

 

[rokkerkory]

This was cool:

It was also heartening to see that Microsoft has retained an internal power supply: in this case, a 245W universal voltage PSU that Del Castillo reckons is the most efficient in Xbox history. On the rear of the unit, the arrangement of ports is identical to Xbox One S, including the standard figure-eight power socket (as opposed to the much larger 'kettle' cable arrangement used on PS4 Pro). The thinking here is that those who've plumbed their Xbox One S into their AV set-up can swap over to Scorpio with next to no effort. Since port arrangement is based on Xbox One S, there's no return for the original Xbox One's Kinect port (a USB adapter is required) but the HDMI input is retained. The final form factor - the 'ID' as Microsoft calls it - will be revealed at E3, where we suspect you will be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Metfanant]

So now DF is bought out by MS? Are you guys for real? Wtf is going on? All of the sudden question DF integrity?

MS paid the bills last gen..Sony has paid the bills for the last 4 years..now it's MS' turn to foot the bill again..

 

[Brad Grenz]

Whatever helps you sleep at night. By all accounts MS is delivering or over delivering on what they announced at E3 last year. An independent, well respected, source confirms this. The console was developed in tandem with AMD to yield these optimizations and improvements and some initial, very impressive, results were shown to back this up. Anyone can google, but can other consoles play Forza on ultra settings at 4K/60? That's all I need to convince me. Show me the results. I don't care what a google search shows nor the "journalistic acumen" of someone reporting said results.

If you're happy to be bamboozled by FUD from Microsoft, that's your business. Don't expect everyone else to blindly accept their misrepresentations of the technology. Xbox is supposedly in a new era of respect under Phil Spencer, but this article is straight from the Mattrick era playbook of media manipulation and obfuscation.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Will the power leap be huge enough to want to own a Scorpio if you already own a PS4 Pro? I don't care to much about the Xbox exclusives but if the multiplats look and run considerately better I will pick one up if the price is right.

On paper, yes, but I imagine it'll take a few months to be certain, just like no one was exactly sure of how the power differential between PS4 and XB1 would shake out until we got a consistent set of differences over time (like 1080p versus 900p resolutions, et al.)

 

[TheSpecialOne]

Can we stop with this notion that Microsoft is some software company that makes sub par hardware. It isn't 2006 anymore. Surface Pro 4, Surface Book, and Surface Studio are all great top of the line products that I would wager are more advanced than anything Sony has put out in a long while as far as consumer products go.

Yes, it's fantastic hardware using off the shelf parts. It's not a semi custom design at all. They don't customize hardware components to the same level that Sony has in the past and continually does with their other products.

 

[Luckydog]

If you're happy to be bamboozled by FUD from Microsoft, that's your business. Don't expect everyone else to blindly accept their misrepresentations of the technology. Xbox is supposedly in a new era of respect under Phil Spencer, but this article is straight from the Mattrick era playbook of media manipulation and obfuscation.

Fight on warrior. Come back with your shield...Or on it....

 

[Mrbob]

So now DF is bought out by MS? Are you guys for real? Wtf is going on? All of the sudden question DF integrity?

I have no idea why people are mad. System coming out a year later is going to be more powerful, shocking news.

 

[Stinkles]

Konix Multisystem is gonna wipe the floor with all y'all

 

[Outrun]

If you're happy to be bamboozled by FUD from Microsoft, that's your business. Don't expect everyone else to blindly accept their misrepresentations of the technology. Xbox is supposedly in a new era of respect under Phil Spencer, but this article is straight from the Mattrick era playbook of media manipulation and obfuscation.

I am seeing more FUD and salt from MS haters at the moment.

 

[Obliterator]

Can we stop this ridiculousness please??...

Please don't act like Xbox fans have not been trying to downplay DF articles for the past 4 years...just like Sony fans had to downplay DF articles for almost all of last generation...

In 2-3 years Xbox fans will once again have to downplay DF articles when the PS5 launches and trounces Scorpio...

Followed by Sony fans downplaying DF articles...then Xbox fans...and so on and so forth...

I honestly wonder if people either A. Have terrible memories, or B. Are really so wrapped up in their blind brand loyalty that they don't even realize their own hypocrisy

Where have I ever stated that Xbox fans haven't talked shit and made fools of themselves? Because I'm pretty sure I've mentioned it this very thread.

That doesn't change the fact we are now going to have Sony fans doing the same thing. Look at how many people are calling DF MS biased now.

This whole thing is a shit show

 

[anothertech]

Can we get some spark notes for those who are just joining in?


Did we get good news today?

So lets see -

Scorpio CPU is Jaguar not Zen

Spoiler

(Jaguar evolved)

6TF GPU is Polaris not Vega

Spoiler

(32fp, Sorry OnQ)

12Gigs of GDDR5 confirmed

Spoiler

(4 for OS, 8 for games)

1TB HDD confirmed
Plus a ton of other constomizations throughout the hardware
We have no idea what the name or the price is at this point, or what it looks like

Also...

Apparently Scorpio is 'liquid cooled'

Spoiler

(it's not, it's just a glorified air cooled system)

Albert Panello is tweeting secret sauce!

Spoiler

(nah, he just said it's more than just the numbers, which could mean anything)

And DF went from paid Sony shills to paid MS shills today

Spoiler

(they're not, its just fanboy douchebaggery, their article is very informative and fair as always)

All in all, been a great day for popcorn and entertainment on Gaf once again. It's good news though. All of it. Hardware spec reveals are always good news

 

[TheSpecialOne]

Fight on warrior. Come back with your shield...Or on it....

Except for the fact that the information presented in his post is true but feel free to ignore factual information.

 

[Outrun]

Konix Multisystem is gonna wipe the floor with all y'all

Wow.

Konix.... I have not heard that name in years. I remember being impressed with the way it looked years ago on C&VG.

 

[Electret]

Mixed feelings on the spec reveal.

Though I had some hope they'd use Puma or Excavator, I didn't think Zen would make the cut, so Jaguar is not shocking. I am surprised the GPU is not Vega based, though. Do we know if the GPU has Vega features, a la the Pro GPU (FP16), or hardware support for sparse rendering? Much ado was made about the 2017 release being precisely what enabled upgrades beyond Pro in each of the CPU, GPU, and RAM, and Phil was quoted speaking directly to that. Nevertheless, they hit 6TF, which is ultimately what matters for the GPU.

Hardware support for DX12 in the CPU is intriguing, but it materializing into anything substantial across a wide selection of games is a claim best taken with a grain of salt until proven otherwise. To me, numbers like the 50% reduction in draw call workload seems pretty scenario specific, and every platform holder has been guilty at some point of touting custom features beyond practical application. We shall see.

The cooling system is an impressive surprise, as are the clocks enabled by it. I completely expected a fat (50+ CU) GPU with ~900 Mhz clocks. Very curious to see what kind of TDP and noise results.

16x AF and standardized downsampling are very welcome. Sony needs to figure out the latter; there's no reason games should omit the feature if they're not allocating horsepower somewhere else.

On another note, I hope the insider vetting that has characterized GAF for some time has not ended with Bish's departure, because a lot of Scorpio threads were plagued by some seriously stinky bullshit that weren't met with the necessary scrutiny. Lo and behold, faux insiders didn't have the bead on the inclusion of Zen or the CPU otherwise not being Jaguar, nor did MS substantially exceed 6TF (someone claimed 8 - lol!).

 

[Metfanant]

Where have I ever stated that Xbox fans haven't talked shit and made fools of themselves? Because I'm pretty sure I've mentioned it this very thread.

That doesn't change the fact we are now going to have Sony fans doing the same thing. Look at how many people are calling DF MS biased now.

This whole thing is a shit show

Then there is no reason to make comments like you made..all it does is stir the pot, both sides of the console war argument are equally dumb and as grossly hypocritical as the other...

 

[transformer]

Well...


It seems no console in existence (not even the upcoming one) can run Forza on ultra settings at 4K/60

Read the article. It is abundantly clear that two scenarios were run. One was at 4K/60 ultra setting and ran fine. The screenshot you mention is the other scenario that had a ton more GPU overhead.

 

[Belker]

I wonder if we might see Leadbetter moving to MS in some kind of spokesman/tech position, leaving DF as independent, but with strong ties to MS.

MS obviously value his work and as he said it was an unprecedented event for him to go to Redmond.

 

[Karspankey]

Sorry, someone else on here said the HEVC codec supported that.

Edit - actually it's in Eurogamer's article too:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2017-project-scorpio-tech-revealed

Oh, ok, cool! My bad! I searched the article that you originally linked and it didn't mention it, and that's where I thought you pulled all your info from. Being able to record with HDR is going to be so nice.

 

[Obliterator]

Then there is no reason to make comments like you made..all it does is stir the pot, both sides of the console war argument are equally dumb and as grossly hypocritical as the other...

I was calling out BS. Jesus calm down.

You know what I'm out of this thread entirely. It's an absolute mess.

Peace and love everyone enjoy your console of choice whatever it is.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Yup, there is no special customization and no secret sauce. When it comes to companies making noteworthy hardware customizations in the console space, that usually comes from Sony as they are a hardware company.

In this thread, we already have people claiming that the Scorpio is more powerful than the gtx 1080, lol. It's been really embarrassing coverage from digital foundry. Let Microsoft advertise their products by themselves. What we don't need is df trying to pass a paid ad as fact. I can't till the die shots come out from chip works.

Already in another thread on this forum, the "ultra" claim has been debunked due to different lod levels between the PC version and the screenshot. The screenshot is at lod 1 like the regular xb1 while the PC operates at lod 0(higher). It's just the xbox version at 4k and there are also questions about the 16x af claims as well.

Look, the Scorpio looks to be a fantastic piece of kit for a mid gen upgrade but it's just an rx480 and an overclocked jaguar. It's not more powerful than a 1080 or 1070 and once third party games drop, it'll be clear for everyone to see.

All I've seen today is the same pr nonsense we've seen with other consoles. Fp16, huma, power of the cloud, dx12 patch, and now it's a special dx12 co processor which is just a regular command processor. It's just sad and annoying.

So much fucking salt. Mission Accomplished Microsoft. Mission fucking accomplished.

If you're happy to be bamboozled by FUD from Microsoft, that's your business. Don't expect everyone else to blindly accept their misrepresentations of the technology. Xbox is supposedly in a new era of respect under Phil Spencer, but this article is straight from the Mattrick era playbook of media manipulation and obfuscation.

Why the hell are you guys so mad? Holy shit. It's just games!

 

[Outrun]

I was calling out BS. Jesus calm down.

You know what I'm out of this thread entirely. It's an absolute mess.

Peace and love everyone enjoy your console of choice whatever it is.

I shall enjoy my WonderSwan.

Laters man.

 

[transformer]

If you're happy to be bamboozled by FUD from Microsoft, that's your business. Don't expect everyone else to blindly accept their misrepresentations of the technology. Xbox is supposedly in a new era of respect under Phil Spencer, but this article is straight from the Mattrick era playbook of media manipulation and obfuscation.

I was "bamboozled" before when everyone said Xbox one couldn't do 1080p. It was "technically impossible" according to many. Forza 5 at 1080p/60 was disregarded as BS the same way. I'll believe independent journalists and their published reports.

 

[Wedzi]

Yes, it's fantastic hardware using off the shelf parts. It's not a semi custom design at all. They don't customize hardware components to the same level that Sony has in the past and continually does with their other products.

No company is going to customize console components to the extent that they used to, way too much R&D cost. What do you think the PS4 is?

Also the Digital Foundry article details extensive customization made to the CPU as well as customization made to the GPU. I suggest you actually read the article. Or were you expecting some kind of Cell Processor?

 

[DirtyLarry]

I am a grown ass adult so with large threads like these, I 110% admit I check out the first and last pages, so I may be asking a question that throws certain members into a crazed frenzy, but I am genuinely curious, zero indication has been given yet as to what we can expect for price point yet correct?

I do not see anything, nor do I believe they would announce a price this early, but with this unorthodox reveal and the fact I have admittedly only checked 2 out of 101 pages, I just want to triple check.

And the only reason I am curious as I am in no matter what based on that 15 or so minute video I watched from Page 1. Native 4K gaming for most (if not all) games is a glorious thing. Now to save up for that new TV as well.

 

[Nostremitus]

These games are developed to be more GPU intensive than typical PC games.

What do you think feeds the GPU? CPU bottlenecks will keep your framerate down even if the GPU is capable of doing more.

Well I was told that Sony had basically maxed out the jaguar at 2.1 GHz last year so how did Microsoft get even more out of it? Better engineers? More customization? Wizardry?

An extra year and TSMC process node improvements. It can run at 2.3, but it's going to be hot and most likely loud.

The Jaguar in Xbox One S and PS4 PRO are variances too.

That was my point.

 

[Wedzi]

I am a grown ass adult so with large threads like these, I 110% admit I check out the first and last pages, so I may be asking a question that throws certain members into a crazed frenzy, but I am genuinely curious, zero indication has been given yet as to what we can expect for price point yet correct?

I do not see anything, nor do I believe they would announce a price this early, but with this unorthodox reveal and the fact I have admittedly only checked 2 out of 101 pages, I just want to triple check.

And the only reason I am curious as I am in no matter what based on that 15 or so minute video I watched from Page 1. Native 4K gaming for most (if not all) games is a glorious thing. Now to save up for that new TV as well.

Digital Foundry speculated in the article of a price of $499 but it's anyone's guess.

 

[Luckydog]

Except for the fact that the information presented in his post is true but feel free to ignore factual information.

Aaaaaaand....No. I get it. You are both upset that something can ever be said positive about a MS product. At the end of the day these are a solid set of specs for a mid gen update presented in a way that came off much better than the ps4 pro reveal. This doesn't make Sony a shit company. It means MS did a good job this particular time and they should have their day. Next up is actual software.

 

[Metfanant]

So much fucking salt. Mission Accomplished Microsoft. Mission fucking accomplished.

Come on dude...you've been driving a dump truck full of salt for the past 4 years...can we stop?

 

[TheSpecialOne]

So much fucking salt. Mission Accomplished Microsoft. Mission fucking accomplished.

If this were any other poster, I would try to articulate my points and provide sufficient evidence to back up my claims but I won't bother. You're a well known advocate of the Xbox on this forum. You were banned several times in the lead up to the release of the xb1 and post release for your biased posts. I'm not going to even bother.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

*jumps to "console wars fanboys" on bingo card

Aside from the asshatery in this thread I'm feeling truth in DF's review on a solid grounding. I wasn't expecting earth shattering insanity but I feel like we got more than expected up front and some lush details are still to come.

Now show us some games on this beast.

 

[cheesekao]

Brand new hardware, some old shitshow. Some of you need to realize that at the end of the day, it's just a console.

OT: Disappointing that we didn't get to see proper DF videos on games but w/e.

 

[Prologue]

So lets see -

Scorpio CPU is Jaguar not Zen

Spoiler

(Jaguar evolved)

6TF GPU is Polaris not Vega

Spoiler

(32fp)

12Gigs of GDDR5 confirmed

Spoiler

(4 for OS, 8 for games)

1TB HDD confirmed
Plus a ton of other constomizations throughout the hardware
We have no idea what the name or the price is at this point, or what it looks like

Also...

Apparently Scorpio is 'liquid cooled'

Spoiler

(it's not, it's just a glorified air cooled system)

Albert Panello is tweeting secret sauce!

Spoiler

(nah, he just said it's more than just the numbers, which could mean anything)

And DF went from paid Sony shills to paid MS shills today

Spoiler

(they're not, its just fanboy douchebaggery, their article is very informative and fair as always)

All in all, been a great day for popcorn and entertainment on Gaf once again. It's good news though. All of it. Hardware spec reveals are always good news

thank you

 

[Doug Heffernan]

If you're happy to be bamboozled by FUD from Microsoft, that's your business. Don't expect everyone else to blindly accept their misrepresentations of the technology. Xbox is supposedly in a new era of respect under Phil Spencer, but this article is straight from the Mattrick era playbook of media manipulation and obfuscation.

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.