Support NeoGAF

[Nikana]

Any thoughts on the power draw at these clocks?

Wasn't there something in the article about the power supply only bring 260s?


Edit: was 245 watt power supply. Which is freaking crazy for this thing to have that much power with only 245 maximum draw. (IMO)

Edit 2: if I remember correctly the xbone OG had a 215 watt power supply which Drew about 120ish under load. So I'm guessing like 130-140 for scorpio?

 

[Munki]

Was about to say the same.

Are Jaguar and Polaris the same thing? Because somebody also mentioned that Polaris can go up to 2.5.

 

[Quasar]

Well...it looks interesting. The DX12 hardware stuff particularly.

Still have many questions, like whether they will eliminate the storage/loading bottlenecks that both consoles have this gen. Wonder what the higher clocks mean for noise, even with that more modern cooling.

And of course what their VR plan is.

Certainly has not changed my position from 'willing to buy', even without Zen CPU cores.

 

[DealWithIt]

Predicting $470 or close to there. More than $400 but avoid the $500 break.

 

[minimoke]

What about the power of the cloud? 😎

 

[Liabe Brave]

Someone mentioned jags cant go above 2.1 so maybe kinda true?

We know it's simply not "just Jaguar" (after all, you can't get a run-of-the-mill Jaguar clocked at this frequency, so it's obviously been modified)....

It seems they achieved this through two things:

1. AMD's new power regime, where areas of the chip with less utilization receive less voltage, then ramp up when needed.
2. The "Hovis method", where each individual APU has its power supply tuned to its idiosyncrasies.

Neither improvement has anything at all to do with the CPU architecture, which as far as we know is unchanged. (The DX12 customizations are part of the GPU; they should reduce CPU load, but have no effect on how the Jaguars do their work.)

 

[RoboPlato]

Someone mentioned jags cant go above 2.1 so maybe kinda true?

Jags can go higher, they just start to have a dramatically higher power draw if you go above 2.4

 

[op_ivy]

Without seeing games I'm not comiting to anything. But it sure sounds good.

Fuck, I have no idea how to convince my wife that our newish 50" 1080p plasma needs to be replaced for 4k, lol. Its too big to move into the bedroom. Perhaps I find a smaller 4k set for there?

 

[Grazzt]

The decisive factor is price. I'm predicting USD $449. If it's true, then day one for me.

 

[BeforeU]

How well does the Xbox One S play 4K blu rays?

lol what does this mean? like at what fps the movie gets played? not sure how to answer this.

 

[quest]

The jaguar is what I expected. I am still really surprised at Polaris. To reuse a year old architecture when Sony was able to secure the latest and greatest. To miss out on the tbr and it's efficiency gains is a shame. It's the only real disappointment of project Scorpio. Love to find out why. Still not sure if will get day 1.

 

[xevis]

What's wrong with that? He's a tech nerd who was impressed with the engineering behind the PS4 Pro and is now impressed with the Scorpio.

DF is hyping up this stuff without hard numbers and independent analysis. It's about as meaningful as Sega boasting about Blast Processing. Here's another gem (from a totally-not-an-advertisement piece entitled Scorpio is console hardware pushed to a new level).

The bottom line is that Scorpio's six teraflops will almost certainly go a lot further than an equivalent PC part. I asked Microsoft about this specifically, and they raise a number of good arguments that make the case strongly. Firstly, that their shader compiler is far more efficient than PC equivalents (think of shaders as native GPU code). Secondly, addressing the hardware directly via their API and with access to console-specific GPU extensions again adds to the advantage of a fixed platform box. And finally, they point to their optimisation software - PIX (Performance Investigator for Xbox) - as a tool that provides the path to console-specific optimisations that PC simply cannot get.

Got spin?

But why would they do that if it wasn't paid for?

Remember the benefit here is that DF gets the EXCLUSIVE. MS doesn't need to give them that AND money. If MS doesn't give them money, it's not a sponsored ad. Yes DF will make money from this indirectly via all the page views, but that's not a sponsored ad still.

EXCLUSIVE is meaningless without INDEPENDENT. Quid-pro-quo access for positive coverage is every bit as much advertisement as the ads that run alongside the article.

Under your logic, Gameinformer would have to put a giant SPONSORED ADVERTISEMENT on the cover of each and every issue of their magazine.

I would be totally OK with that.

 

[Metalingus5150]

lol what does this mean? like at what fps the movie gets played? not sure how to answer this.

I've read some places that the console has trouble playing discs or the blu ray app freezing. Idk if that still stands or if Microsoft has updated the console.

 

[Willy Wanka]

It sounds like it's going to be a really nice bit of kit. Having skipped out on Xbox One so far this gen, I'm ready to get one, even if it's just to play my many 360 games that don't have PC ports. Hopefully the price isn't too outrageous.

 

[Pathfinder]

I've read some places that the console has trouble playing discs or the blu ray app freezing. Idk if that still stands or if Microsoft has updated the console.

No complaints here. Plays all my discs. It even upscales standard Blu-Rays nicely.

 

[thelastword]

it does seem silly that DF didn't use the word jaguar on that spec breakdown spreadsheet

Same amount of cache, an upclock of 525Mhz from XB1 and 200 MHz from PS4 PRO....Does that make Jaguar evolved?

If I upclock my Skylake i3 6100 to 4.2 GHz from base 3.7GHz, does that make it evolved?

 

[AmyS]

Also, mostly overlooked today, Scorpio has an Ultra HD Blu-ray drive to play 4K movie discs! Horraay!

Of course, why wouldn't it, when Xbox One S already has it? Well, some people questioned if Scorpio would also.

 

[Hockeymac18]

It seems they achieved this through two things:

1. AMD's new power regime, where areas of the chip with less utilization receive less voltage, then ramp up when needed.
2. The "Hovis method", where each individual APU has its power supply tuned to its idiosyncrasies.

Neither improvement has anything at all to do with the CPU architecture, which as far as we know is unchanged. (The DX12 customizations are part of the GPU; they should reduce CPU load, but have no effect on how the Jaguars do their work.)

Jags can go higher, they just start to have a dramatically higher power draw if you go above 2.4

Ah, interesting. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[BeforeU]

I've read some places that the console has trouble playing discs or the blu ray app freezing. Idk if that still stands or if Microsoft has updated the console.

I have revenant, mad max and Planet Earth 2 so far. I did notice frizzing couple of times during Planet Earth. But that's about it. I thought it was my disk related, because it only happens when I am watching Planet Earth. And never experienced a crash yet.

 

[Shogmaster]

DF is hyping up this stuff without hard numbers and independent analysis. It's about as meaningful as Sega boasting about Blast Processing. Here's another gem (from a totally-not-an-advertisement piece entitled Scorpio is console hardware pushed to a new level).



Got spin?



EXCLUSIVE is meaningless without INDEPENDENT. Quid-pro-quo access for positive coverage is every bit as much advertisement as the ads that run alongside the article.



I would be totally OK with that.

god forbid if the dude is genuinely impressed with what he saw. lolz

 

[statham]

Also, mostly overlooked today, Scorpio has an Ultra HD Blu-ray drive to play 4K movie discs! Horraay!

Of course, why wouldn't it, when Xbox One S already has it? Well, some people questioned if Scorpio would also.

still important, and it has HDMI in

 

[Pathfinder]

god forbid if the dude is genuinely impressed with what he saw. lolz

NOT ALLOWED

 

[Shogmaster]

Same amount of cache, an upclock of 525Mhz from XB1 and 200 MHz from PS4 PRO....Does that make Jaguar evolved?

If I upclock my Skylake i3 6100 to 4.2 GHz from base 3.7GHz, does that make it evolved?

It's evolved if it's only Jaguar variant with direct X 12 ops embedded into silicon.

 

[Metalingus5150]

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Munki]

god forbid if the dude is genuinely impressed with what he saw. lolz

I watched all the videos, Ledbetter does genuinely seem very impressed with Scorpio.

 

[thelastword]

No complaints here. Plays all my discs. It even upscales standard Blu-Rays nicely.

Isnt that the job of the tv scaler and not the bluray player?

So it's a refreshed Jaguar with better TDP, and 200MHz boost....

It's still boring.


I mean, they had to do it, to keep the porting of games easy.

But as a piece of tech, it's not interesting.

here's the thing? What's refreshing about it....? ....In what way is it more refreshed from the Jaguar in the PS4 PRO? or PS4 or XB1 for that matter?

 

[xevis]

god forbid if the dude is genuinely impressed with what he saw. lolz

He's parroting PR word for word. From the same article as before:

Before the hardware deep dives commenced, Mike Ybarra, Corporate Vice-President of the Xbox and Windows Gaming Platform dropped by to outline what he called the 'four pillars' behind Scorpio: regaining the hearts and minds of developers, delivering enough power to hand in a great 'true 4K' experience, providing complete compatibility with existing hardware and software (and running old games better) and - crucially - making sure that Scorpio can 'light up' 1080p TVs.

 

[phantasmic_glaive]

Without seeing games I'm not comiting to anything. But it sure sounds good.

Fuck, I have no idea how to convince my wife that our newish 50" 1080p plasma needs to be replaced for 4k, lol. Its too big to move into the bedroom. Perhaps I find a smaller 4k set for there?

My girl just bought a 55" 4k set, for the bedroom, from BB yesterday for like $450.

 

[BeforeU]

Man seeing all these price speculations makes me happy lol

I am sure Xbox team is happy too that most of the people think it will be $500+

I think he will most definitely drop the $399 bomb at E3 to make up for all the booing they got during Xbox One price reveal. It will be glorious.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

still important, and it has HDMI in

This is my favourite part. So fucking glad HDMI in is still there.

 

[Shogmaster]

He's parroting PR word for word. From the same article as before:



http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/4684757/circle-back-o.gif

I'm not getting what's causing you concern or outrage from here. I guess you wanted him to say it's shite and are mad cuz he didn't?

Did you call him out for spin when he said checkerboard 4K for PS4 Pro is practically as good looking as native 4K output for most? Was that spin? Or was it an honest opinion?

 

[Primethius]

Man seeing all these price speculations makes me happy lol

I am sure Xbox team is happy too that most of the people think it will be $500+

I think he will most definitely drop the $399 bomb at E3 to make up for all the booing they got during Xbox One price reveal. It will be glorious.

I don't get it. I see the cooling, but what else is making people think that it won't be $399 this holidays. It's not like it's launching tomorrow or a few months from now.

I don't know if I buy the DF price point speculation at all.

 

[Septic360]

Waaaaait a minute.

So Scorpio DOES use liquid cooling?!!

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/project-scorpio

Whaaa

 

[GarthVaderUK]

Maybe, but those are games that are chosen for you. I would prefer to choose my own games.

Bound to be something you'd like there though out of all that? And like I said, there are Live sales too!

 

[RoboPlato]

god forbid if the dude is genuinely impressed with what he saw. lolz

Seriously, go back and read his PS4 Pro write up from the reveal event. Dude was absolutely glowing about that too.

 

[Wedzi]

Man seeing all these price speculations makes me happy lol

I am sure Xbox team is happy too that most of the people think it will be $500+

I think he will most definitely drop the $399 bomb at E3 to make up for all the booing they got during Xbox One price reveal. It will be glorious.

I wonder if they'll put a Nintendo Switch by announcing the price first at E3. Set the tone by showing off the console, announce a price and then let the games flow.

 

[Trup1aya]

He's parroting PR word for word. From the same article as before:

He clearly attributed those words to an MS rep... I don't see what the problem is.

Is now not an appropriate time to relay what MS' intentions and expectations for the hardware are?

 

[Renekton]

Don't bite the hand that feeds.

Come on, we are better than this.

 

[El_Chino]

Waaaaait a minute.

So Scorpio DOES use liquid cooling?!!

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/project-scorpio

Whaaa

Hovis method confirmed.

 

[Beerman462]

He's parroting PR word for word. From the same article as before:

Did you also get upset when people "parroted" Cerny's time to polygon quote?

Seriously, go back and read his PS4 Pro write up from the reveal event. Dude was absolutely glowing about that too.

Yeah imagine that. Someone who analyses tech for a living is excited about new tech..what a shil. Not sure why it upsets people that he's excited about Microsoft Hard...nevermind

 

[Samurai G0SU]

Waaaaait a minute.

So Scorpio DOES use liquid cooling?!!

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/project-scorpio

Whaaa

Youre

Spoiler

not

cray-zee!!!

 

[Head.spawn]

I remember before everyone was speculating that if it had Vega and Zen, it'd be $500. Now we know it's Polaris (like PS4) and Jaguar (like PS4)... and people still think it's going to be $500?

Didn't Pro have a healthy profit margin at retail price?

 

[onanie]

Come on, we are better than this.

Indeed, we should be better than this. People are being fed an advertisement, and they should be questioning what they are eating.

 

[Zedox]

DF is hyping up this stuff without hard numbers and independent analysis. It's about as meaningful as Sega boasting about Blast Processing. Here's another gem (from a totally-not-an-advertisement piece entitled Scorpio is console hardware pushed to a new level).



Got spin?



EXCLUSIVE is meaningless without INDEPENDENT. Quid-pro-quo access for positive coverage is every bit as much advertisement as the ads that run alongside the article.



I would be totally OK with that.

You spin me round round baby right round.

That's all I "hear" from this post.

 

[HighResTomato]

What's wrong with that? He's a tech nerd who was impressed with the engineering behind the PS4 Pro and is now impressed with the Scorpio.

It's about ethics in game journalism.

Spoiler

/s

 

[EASTC0AST_GH05T]

Predicting $470 or close to there. More than $400 but avoid the $500 break.

$499

 

[Deleted member 471617]

My prediction is $400. Trade in Xbox One/Slim and it probably becomes $300. At $500, Scorpio will sell maybe half as much as the Pro and no, that wouldn't be a good thing for Microsoft.

When does everyone think Scorpio will release?

Majority will most likely pick November but my prediction is August 8th.

 

[komaruR]

My prediction for the cost will be $425 to 450 range. $499 with bundled game

 

[Hockeymac18]

Indeed, we should be better than this. People are being fed an advertisement, and they should be questioning what they are eating.

People here aren't stupid. Skepticism with whatever you read is fine - you should always be a bit skeptical of the world. But that doesn't mean we're being fed lies.

These write ups are just normal for a preview of anything, software or hardware. He is documenting what they have showed him. And yes, he happens to like it...is that not allowed? He has been positive about other products in the past, many of which were not MS-made.


Were you skeptical when people were positive of the PS4 or PS4 Pro's reveals? Or, for that matter, when people were positive about any system reveal?

 

[xevis]

I'm not getting what's causing you concern or outrage from here. I guess you wanted him to say it's shite and are mad cuz he didn't?

I don't have an opinion one way or the other on Scorpio. I came here because DF is a usually credible source with usually interesting and independent analysis. IMO, right now they are doing the exact opposite of what they're known for. MS is clearly interested in making their hardware seem stronger than it is and they've developed specific talking points to get that message out. Those same talking points appear verbatim in the article. There's no attempt from DF to distance themselves from the claims. They're just presented as fact: Scorpio does more with the same parts than an equivalent PC! Microsoft said so! Trust me!