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Why is console gaming dying in japan?
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[Japan] As Switch comes after PS4, Sony should be worried
- Thread starter Tadaima
- Start date
KillerMan91
Member
Well I guess technically you could be right. Still doesn't remove fact that Nintendo made that huge price cut because sales of 3DS were lackluster in every region compared to their internal expectations and they were willing to take a big loss with price cut. So question remains how Switch will fare in Japan if it's expensive for handheld (like having same price as 3DS originally).
Doesn't really matter when at the same time Sonys gaming divisions revenue has not decreased at all. It has actually gone up this gen and hit record highs. They are also most likely hitting record profit margins this FY. Nintendo is revenue wise back to early Gamecube era and that is not that healthy when you consider how much software and hardware costs today (not to mention huge margins digital sw has).
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Because people ain't got time to sit down and play games. Portable is king.
Movalpolos
Banned
People in Japan aren't going to carry around a Switch like they do with the 3DS.
Because of the bezel, right?
geordiemp
Member
That does not make sense, as time playing game is still not doing something productive - its just entertainment time.
Back on topic Switch will be fine as a portable, it will do well to that marketplace. Dont think it will make a dent in Ps4 adoption, so they are different markets.
Its like saying a Honda bike will make a dent in car sales..no it wont
I've said it before but a large, unspoken part of the issue is that Japan's largest publisher has a system that competes with the system every other publisher supports.
Movalpolos
Banned
No, what does that have to do with anything? It's just too big.
Any Gaffers here based in Japan? I've rotated in and out for nearly three months of this year alone out there and I can tell you they're both in trouble.
Every time I got on the subway nearly ten years ago, you would see a DS with Nintendogs peppered between folks reading books and people texting on their flip phones.
Now its iPhones, not just smart phones, but iPhones, in every corner of a subway car. There's some Samsungs and off brand smart phones, but I don't think a switch is going to dent into this at all. It could make inroads in homes, though. The form factor alone makes a PS4 Pro look kind of ridiculous in an apartment. I still think they're both fighting for middle market.
Every time I got on the subway nearly ten years ago, you would see a DS with Nintendogs peppered between folks reading books and people texting on their flip phones.
Now its iPhones, not just smart phones, but iPhones, in every corner of a subway car. There's some Samsungs and off brand smart phones, but I don't think a switch is going to dent into this at all. It could make inroads in homes, though. The form factor alone makes a PS4 Pro look kind of ridiculous in an apartment. I still think they're both fighting for middle market.
Stone Ocean
Member
It's super thin and basically the size of a book. People carry tablets bigger than that around.
Not, he's right. People work their asses off in Japan for 6 or 7 days a week and when work is done, they hit the tachinomiya. In between, there is the smart phone. And smart phones have solved a ton of problems for the population that used to involve compromises on commutes for what to carry but not anymore. Read books in the subway? Solved. Texing? Solved. News? Solved? Games? Solved. Music? Solved.
And then you fold the cover over the screen, put it away in your jacket pocket or purse and go back to work. For families, a Switch would be a great home appliance, but you're just not going to get the market penetration an iPhone or Galaxy will. They're a super device that takes up no space and everybody has one so then of course everybody else wants one.
Screamapillar
Member
The dedicated game device business in Japan is pennies compared to the smartphone market.
Miyamoto recently stated in an investor Q&A that titles need to sell at least 300k domestically to be considered a success. Very few PS4 games do even close to that, and hardly any Wii U games did that, outside of Nintendo top 10 staple sequels.
So if Sony is concerned at all with console gaming in Japan, they should be concerned with the market simply vanishing from existence, and not Nintendo's upcoming system.
I think Switch will have a hard time doing 3DS numbers in Japan, namely because of the size. I would love to be wrong about this, but Japanese gamers love handhelds due to the size of the devices, and the ability to connect wirelessly with people in cramped spaces. Switch is quite large for a handheld, and even moreso with the Joy Cons attached to either side. Particularly speaking of Nintendo's home turf, it seems an odd choice that their only platorm going forward, consolidating 3DS and Wii U gamers into one system for all software, that the Switch is so much larger than the 3DS XL. It simply doesn't fit in a pocket anymore. 3DS fit in people's pockets.
So I think Switch will be massively successful in the US, and hopefully Europe, but I feel like Japan will have a slower adoption rate, due to people not liking how large it is.
Miyamoto recently stated in an investor Q&A that titles need to sell at least 300k domestically to be considered a success. Very few PS4 games do even close to that, and hardly any Wii U games did that, outside of Nintendo top 10 staple sequels.
So if Sony is concerned at all with console gaming in Japan, they should be concerned with the market simply vanishing from existence, and not Nintendo's upcoming system.
I think Switch will have a hard time doing 3DS numbers in Japan, namely because of the size. I would love to be wrong about this, but Japanese gamers love handhelds due to the size of the devices, and the ability to connect wirelessly with people in cramped spaces. Switch is quite large for a handheld, and even moreso with the Joy Cons attached to either side. Particularly speaking of Nintendo's home turf, it seems an odd choice that their only platorm going forward, consolidating 3DS and Wii U gamers into one system for all software, that the Switch is so much larger than the 3DS XL. It simply doesn't fit in a pocket anymore. 3DS fit in people's pockets.
So I think Switch will be massively successful in the US, and hopefully Europe, but I feel like Japan will have a slower adoption rate, due to people not liking how large it is.
This may be true, but we know very well Nintendo and its business regarding handheld consoles, so it's very likely a Lite/Mini version from the Switch will be released a year or (maximum) two years following the launch of the system. It's just matter of time.
entremet
Member
I don't know about that. The issue is more nuanced.
Obviously, its not the sole reason and most probably not even close to the biggest but its a factor that gets little acknowledgement.
Revenue is up for PlayStation largely due to services and subscriptions. Digital/DLC is also a big differentiator, and things like inflation and pricepoints play a part too.
Nintendo is a good example of the latter really too. They're at 6th gen revenue levels despite 3DS/Wii U moving far less hardware than GBA/GC did. Both Sony and Nintendo are going to be moving less hardware this gen than they have since the 5th gen actually. Microsoft will beat their 6th gen at least.
AquaWateria
Member
People are saying the Switch is big, but is it really? The thing is really slim, in fact moreso than the 3DS XL judging by the reveal on Fallon. To me its quite small like between a smartphone and tablet.
Lil'DigiOp
Member
Nah, they serve 2 completely different markets. We love Switch because Nintendo.
You buy a switch to get Smash, Pokémon stars, and breath of the wild. You shouldn't be expecting more really. It's highly possibly that certain Japanese titles might see multi plat release between PS4 and Switch but you shouldn't buy it expecting the status quo to change.
The PS4 library is established and completely diverse to what you'll get on Switch. They will coexist.
You buy a switch to get Smash, Pokémon stars, and breath of the wild. You shouldn't be expecting more really. It's highly possibly that certain Japanese titles might see multi plat release between PS4 and Switch but you shouldn't buy it expecting the status quo to change.
The PS4 library is established and completely diverse to what you'll get on Switch. They will coexist.
ScatheZombie
Member
Funny enough, this is pretty much a textbook example of the different approaches by the two companies. Sony has been, for a fairly long time, focused on a global market. They spend a ton of time and money establishing themselves in the US and EU markets. And now Europe is dominated by Playstation and the US is actually a battleground with Microsoft. Sony doesn't really put any focus or effort into Japan, specifically. The make their products for every other market and hope Japan picks it up.
Nintendo, on the other hand, seems to do the exact inverse. They focus almost exclusively on the Japanese market and hope that everyone else picks it up. Sometimes that pays off and sometimes it doesn't - which is why Nintendo fluctuates between a major contender and a laughing stock in the console space. Their handheld market share is undeniable, but Sony has pretty much abandoned that.
I suppose it's safe to argue that the Switch will have a pretty big impact in Japan, where the handheld market is essentially the only one worth pursuing. But I think it remains to be seen what happens in every other market that Sony actually cares about. It has the potential for Wii level success abroad. It also has the potential for Wii-U level failure abroad. And that's the only thing that Sony is going to care about Switch-related. They're not going to give a shit that Switch becomes the number one console in Japan when they're selling 40+ million consoles in every other market.
Nintendo, on the other hand, seems to do the exact inverse. They focus almost exclusively on the Japanese market and hope that everyone else picks it up. Sometimes that pays off and sometimes it doesn't - which is why Nintendo fluctuates between a major contender and a laughing stock in the console space. Their handheld market share is undeniable, but Sony has pretty much abandoned that.
I suppose it's safe to argue that the Switch will have a pretty big impact in Japan, where the handheld market is essentially the only one worth pursuing. But I think it remains to be seen what happens in every other market that Sony actually cares about. It has the potential for Wii level success abroad. It also has the potential for Wii-U level failure abroad. And that's the only thing that Sony is going to care about Switch-related. They're not going to give a shit that Switch becomes the number one console in Japan when they're selling 40+ million consoles in every other market.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Because mobile satisfies their portable needs.
RadarScope1
Member
Well-written and well-reasoned OP. I agree that the opportunities are huge for Nintendo and for their third-party partners -- that relationship looks like it could be better than it has in many years, especially if Switch sells pretty well out of the gate there.
But I am not sure I agree that Sony is in major trouble because of this. Remember, all of these devices are converging into a similar space in terms of architecture, and so the trends toward the prevalence of ports and multiplatform releases will continue its current trajectory. It means Nintendo *might* get some actual third party support on their console to add to the always-cool Nintendo lineup. And factor in what I see as a little more willingness to experiment overall in recent years as the old guard at Big N starts to allow the next generation to contribute more to development strategy (Splatoon, Pokemon Go, Super Mario Run, a back-to-basics Zelda) and I think the ground is very fertile for Nintendo.
But the hyper detailed open world games, sim racers, competitive shooters and cinematic experiences won't translate well to that platform. For western gamers with those tastes (millions upon millions of them), the console space will still be relatively strong. Sony and MS have wised up to the strategic barriers in the console space and now that they are cheaper, x64-based, iterative boxes, with robust online store fronts, I think consoles are more or less safe into at least the next gen in the west.
In short, things look pretty bright overall. Hoping for the best with the Switch. I'm considering getting one, and I haven't bought Nintendo hardware for a long time.
But I am not sure I agree that Sony is in major trouble because of this. Remember, all of these devices are converging into a similar space in terms of architecture, and so the trends toward the prevalence of ports and multiplatform releases will continue its current trajectory. It means Nintendo *might* get some actual third party support on their console to add to the always-cool Nintendo lineup. And factor in what I see as a little more willingness to experiment overall in recent years as the old guard at Big N starts to allow the next generation to contribute more to development strategy (Splatoon, Pokemon Go, Super Mario Run, a back-to-basics Zelda) and I think the ground is very fertile for Nintendo.
But the hyper detailed open world games, sim racers, competitive shooters and cinematic experiences won't translate well to that platform. For western gamers with those tastes (millions upon millions of them), the console space will still be relatively strong. Sony and MS have wised up to the strategic barriers in the console space and now that they are cheaper, x64-based, iterative boxes, with robust online store fronts, I think consoles are more or less safe into at least the next gen in the west.
In short, things look pretty bright overall. Hoping for the best with the Switch. I'm considering getting one, and I haven't bought Nintendo hardware for a long time.
This. No one here plays anything but cellphone games in public. If they buy a switch, it will probably never leave the house.
lwilliams3
Member
Sony survived the Wii/DS era. They will be ok.
I feel like the Japanese market is not a big deal to Sony. They have NA and EU, which is huge. I don't see Switch having a Wii-like phenomenon globally.
Why aren't Japanese millenials having relationships and having sex?
Why aren't Japanese millenials having relationships and having sex?
nobody is
the point everybody seems to be missing is Switch is trying to straddle both markets at the same time. whether it succeeds is anybody's guess
Rip PS4 in Japan after Pokemon Star launches.
Either way whatever i like both Sony and Nintendo.
Edit: you can't fit an ipad in your pocket and people still walk with that outside so will people do with the Switch there. It can easily be carried in a small bag or backpack.
The it does not fit in pocket it's dead as a handheld is a bit ridiculous.
Either way whatever i like both Sony and Nintendo.
Edit: you can't fit an ipad in your pocket and people still walk with that outside so will people do with the Switch there. It can easily be carried in a small bag or backpack.
The it does not fit in pocket it's dead as a handheld is a bit ridiculous.
lwilliams3
Member
xaosslug
Member
the switch has none of the functionality of an iPad, tho. No one is gonna carry around a second iPad/iPad-mini-like device just to play games, along w/ their phone. xD
honestly, Nintendo should have just partnered w/ a smartphone manufacturer and just released a Nintendo branded phone, complete with a Nintendo OS and online store with all their DS games available.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
I wish mobile gaming was more competitive in the west, to be honest. A steam client and bigger/more complex games that work across apple/android/fire tv and their phones/tablets would be gold to me.
CrispyBoar
Banned
Because they're tired of their own franchises such as Final Fantasy being westernized as well as companies bringing out games that doesn't appeal to them. That's why they go to mobile & handheld gaming, where there are still some of the kinds of games that they like.
It's also why the Playstation brand has been diluted over there since PS3 & why Nintendo products & mobile have been hugely popular there.
Yup. Japan is mobile country and I don't see the Switch changing anything to this.
In that case how did Japan ever have such a large hardcore gaming market in the first place? And supposedly arcades are still a bit popular? There was a time when Japan was even the largest market in the world for games.
家庭用据置型テレビゲーム機 is the same term they have used for past consoles such as the Wii. It roughly means, game machine for home installation and use. But in the very same sentence, it says that it has no problem being used on the go. So, the marketing in Japan is the same as in the rest of the world for the Switch.
And for those who think the size of the switch or battery life will be a problem, I suspect it won't. Most commuters bring a bag, from time to time I will see people use devices as large as laptops and iPad Pros on the train. It should also be noted that the extra large versions of Nintendo's handhelds are the top selling devices in Japan. Battery life only needs to last a bit longer than the commute to and from work, which for most people is about 2-3 hours.
I would venture to say that it pretty much is still the largest market in the world for gaming, Japan and the rest of the world just have a different definition of gaming.
I do find that lukewarm and/or questionable Japanese support that Nintendo platforms receive very interesting.
It'll be more interesting if it continues with Switch, given a Switch that sells closer to a Nintendo portable than N64, GCN, Wii U; and eclipses PS4 in Japanese sales.
This is because:
1-Switch should be easy to port to from PS4, much easier than Vita, especially for Japanese games that are not pushing the PS4 too hard, which is a lot of them. Things like UE4 adoption and nVidia helping Nintendo with tools should help.
2-Japanese developers are increasingly looking for alternate platforms to port to and expand their markets, i.e. increasing Steam presence, X360 presence last generation, etc.
3-Many of them already have working relationships with Nintendo for portable games.
If a successful Switch does not encourage many titles to go Ni No Kuni (1) or DQXI with much lower hurdles to doing so, then, yes, something is strange in Japan. I expect a successful Switch would get most of the medium-end Japanese efforts, with niche efforts and AAA efforts banking on competing with western product at the top end of PS4 being much more likely to remain exclusive.
A lot worse. But there is a wealth of Japanese software that avoids Nintendo that would have less reason to if Switch sells well.
Exactly, it might come as a shock to American gamers, but nobody cares about The switch.
except it's not. Launch aligned PS4 is selling better in Japan than Vita.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Lemme' borrow that crystal ball for a sec.
Nobody?
We're talking about Japan?! Which almost matches America in 3DS sales on one half the population?! Nintendo very much has a presence in Japan. Moreover, 3DS has moved another ~20 million outside America and Japan.
Devilgunman
Member
As long as the Switch has Pokémon, it is destined to crush PS4 in Japan sooner or later. However, Sony won't panic as long as they're a leader in global scale.
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