• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Xbox Series BC: 16x AF for all games, resolution and frame rate boosts

Jul 29, 2013
3,102
5,865
985
US


Man the camera panning is so smooth on XSS with the 60fps compared to 30fps. 30fps looks like shit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Andodalf and TLZ
Aug 11, 2019
1,114
1,603
380
The more I see of the BC stuff the more I'm impressed. I was contemplating getting a series S for the living room, but I might just go all out and get the X. MS did a pretty good job of adding more BC titles throughout the Xbone's life so I'm sure they'll do the same here.
 

01011001

Member
Dec 4, 2018
5,374
8,276
570
Oh nice! It looks like it is doing a similar job as if you're increasing resolution, making the image clearer?

if you look at textures at an angle, the textures will get blurry if your texture filter settings are lower.

16xAF will make textures look sharp no matter at what angle you look at them.
that's especially noticeable on ground textures since you are very often looking at those at an angle
 
Last edited:
Jul 29, 2013
3,102
5,865
985
US
Oh nice! It looks like it is doing a similar job as if you're increasing resolution, making the image clearer?
It's essentially texture filtering for diagonal views. Especially noticiable with ground textures with long view distances. ^Explained.

A recent example would be Death Stranding on PC having 16xAF vs PS4 Pro having 4xAF...



This is from the DF: Faceoff review of the PC version of Death Stranding when he discusses AF.
 

SegaSnatcher

Member
Jan 31, 2020
325
692
320
Scottsdale, Arizona
Why does it seem like Sony is having a harder time with BC than Microsoft? Does it really come down to talent or Sony just not putting enough resources in? Yes, it’s great that 99% of PS4 games will run will run but they make much less promises than Microsoft about image quality and FPS boosts.
 
Last edited:

Tschumi

Banned
Jul 4, 2020
2,559
2,968
590
Japan
Why does it seem like Sony is having a harder time with BC than Microsoft? Does it really come down to talent or Sony just not putting enough resources in? Yes, it’s great that 99% of PS4 games will run will run but they make much less promises than Microsoft about image quality and FPS boosts.
I think you adding in "really come down to talent" there was pretty sneaky :p nobody anywhere would think working for Sony automatically means you have less talent.. in fact quite the contrary, considering the latest generation..

PS2 and PS3 were both really wonky bits of hardware, the SSD on PS5 only has so much space, i guess they didn't wanna invest in that. Anyway why would they? PS4 games are more than enough - obviously PS5 games are the main focus~
 

01011001

Member
Dec 4, 2018
5,374
8,276
570
Why does it seem like Sony is having a harder time with BC than Microsoft? Does it really come down to talent or Sony just not putting enough resources in? Yes, it’s great that 99% of PS4 games will run will run but they make much less promises than Microsoft about image quality and FPS boosts.

Microsoft is in the back compat business since 1995.
Windows 10 is still trying to be compatible with Windows 95 software... it's their thing.

they also had a whole team at Xbox that is dedicated to backwards compatibility for years now.

MS needed good press so they made their back compat push on Xbox One and ever since then improved their software more and more and tried to push back compat as far as possible.

the first few releases of 360 back compat games on XboxOne ran not that well. worse framerates than on 360, input latency etc.

but then over the years (and kinda thanks to Digital Foundry pointing out all the flaws publicly) they improved it to the point where every single game now runs better than on 360 on base Xbox One, and yet even better on One X with or without enhanced patch
 
Last edited:

Andodalf

Member
Oct 20, 2013
5,622
8,343
885
23
Earth
Why does it seem like Sony is having a harder time with BC than Microsoft? Does it really come down to talent or Sony just not putting enough resources in? Yes, it’s great that 99% of PS4 games will run will run but they make much less promises than Microsoft about image quality and FPS boosts.

MS put the work in during the XO era to have easy BC going forward, and they did it on the software side. Sony did not, not even for Base PS4 to Pro.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gideon_128

MrFunSocks

Banned
Jul 9, 2020
3,018
5,445
645
Can i just point out that at this point xBox fans are limited to boasting about what essentially amounts to xBox recycling games from up to a decade or two ago?

Slim pickens.
How good is the brand new next gen exclusive demons souls though, amiright!?

BC is a huge thing to many of us, especially those of us in our 30s and 40s. We’ve seen games we grew up loving become essentially lost forever, so not only being able to play 20 years worth of games but also have them look and run better than ever is huge.

I would buy a series x for BC alone, even if it never got a new game released. I would buy it purely as a retro console. It just so happens that it’s the most powerful next gen console too though, so lucky me.
 
Last edited:

dvdvideo

Member
Sep 15, 2005
2,052
1,974
1,680
How good is the brand new next gen exclusive demons souls though, amiright!?

BC is a huge thing too many of us, especially those of us in our 30s and 40s. We’ve seen games we grew up loving become essentially lost forever, so not only being able to play 20 years worth of games but also have them look and run better than ever is huge.

I would buy a series x for BC alone, even if it never got a new game released. I would buy it purely as a retro console. It just so happens that it’s the most powerful next gen console too though, so lucky me.

Agreed, its very important to me as well.
I have a digital catalog with a ton of great games.
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
Jul 9, 2020
3,018
5,445
645
I think you adding in "really come down to talent" there was pretty sneaky :p nobody anywhere would think working for Sony automatically means you have less talent.. in fact quite the contrary, considering the latest generation..

PS2 and PS3 were both really wonky bits of hardware, the SSD on PS5 only has so much space, i guess they didn't wanna invest in that. Anyway why would they? PS4 games are more than enough - obviously PS5 games are the main focus~
I don’t think it’s meant as an insult to Sony or anything like that, but MS’s team that work on Bc are legit software dev wizards. They’re doing things that no one thought was even remotely possible, and going even further by enhancing games automatically without any dev input. The people doing that are not necessarily the same people that make games. To say they’re technically beyond Sony’s BC team isn’t a slight on Sony or their employees, it’s just a reflection of how good the MS guys are.
 

Tschumi

Banned
Jul 4, 2020
2,559
2,968
590
Japan
To say they’re technically beyond Sony’s BC team isn’t a slight on Sony or their employees, it’s just a reflection of how good the MS guys are.
But that's nested in an assumption that Ms' guys are in any way better.. and like in terms of results at least i don't think we've much cause to be that certain about that~ anyways it's no biggy, jah bless~
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
Jul 9, 2020
3,018
5,445
645
But that's nested in an assumption that Ms' guys are in any way better.. and like in terms of results at least i don't think we've much cause to be that certain about that~ anyways it's no biggy, jah bless~
We have seen it though. The Xbox and 360 bc on even the Xbox one is incredible. The bc on the PS4 and ps5 is nothing compared to it. The bc on the series s/x is beyond anything we’ve ever seen. Even PC doesn’t get auto HDR added to old games with new hardware.
 

tryDEATH

Member
Nov 3, 2017
945
1,588
475
Xbox just spitting hot fire with these features figuratively and literally. They're simply unstoppable at this point and are going so far above and beyond what anyone expects from them.

They truly took the shortcomings of last generation and made sure they over deliver this generation on every imaginable department. People can pretend as much as they want that BC isn't a big thing, but they are simply lying to themselves especially when you have this sort of support.

Can't wait to see what optimized games will be like, if these BC games are getting these sort of significant improvements.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MrFunSocks

supernova8

Member
Jun 2, 2020
1,841
2,571
420
Is this the new 'Xbox has no games'?

Well they have (intentionally IMO) avoided discussing new games because there really is nothing to discuss in terms of heavy hitters that will be coming out any time soon.

Their messaging right now is "You can play all these games you've already played at higher resolutions/framerates (while you wait for new games to actually come out..at some point.. in the future)!"
Granted Sony's messaging isn't much better: "Look at these 2 whole new games you can play! Spider Man and Demons Souls! (OK sure Demons Souls is a remake, Spider Man is cross-gen but there's nothing else to play but shit happens)!"

Somehow having any new major games available at/around launch is no longer an interesting talking point for Xbox fans?
Similarly, teraflops is somehow no longer an interesting talking point for Sony fans?

Honestly both sides are comically pedantic about certain things.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gideon_128

Lionel Richie

Member
Jun 22, 2014
13,569
14,110
930
But that's nested in an assumption that Ms' guys are in any way better.. and like in terms of results at least i don't think we've much cause to be that certain about that~ anyways it's no biggy, jah bless~

We have an entire generation of results to at least assume that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MrFunSocks

zcaa0g

Member
Sep 3, 2018
1,259
1,702
405
BC does matter because there is this thing that certain genres do have and that's called "replay value". So said game might be old but still enjoyable due to that replay value factor.
 

dvdvideo

Member
Sep 15, 2005
2,052
1,974
1,680
Also I'm about 8 games behind on current gen due to time constraints, hoping I can catch up over the next year while enjoying the enhancements.
 

NoMoChokeSJ

Banned
Jun 3, 2014
1,575
1,407
580
Well they have (intentionally IMO) avoided discussing new games because there really is nothing to discuss in terms of heavy hitters that will be coming out any time soon.

Their messaging right now is "You can play all these games you've already played at higher resolutions/framerates (while you wait for new games to actually come out..at some point.. in the future)!"
Granted Sony's messaging isn't much better: "Look at these 2 whole new games you can play! Spider Man and Demons Souls! (OK sure Demons Souls is a remake, Spider Man is cross-gen but there's nothing else to play but shit happens)!"

Somehow having any new major games available at/around launch is no longer an interesting talking point for Xbox fans?
Similarly, teraflops is somehow no longer an interesting talking point for Sony fans?

Honestly both sides are comically pedantic about certain things.
It's a false narrative. Xbox has games coming out at release and very close to it, but they aren't AAA. It may sound silly but I'm way more excited over the Falconeer than I am Demons Souls (I don't dig souls games).

Plus it's not like early adopters are normally flush with games. I don't think my PS3 got played for over a year after its release and my PS4 wasn't far behind in collecting dust.

You buy systems for potential as an early adopter or you wait until a library gets established then buy into it. Both companies still have pretty substantial support for the existing consoles for the next year so it doesn't really hurt to wait. But with backwards compatibility you can kinda get the best of both worlds.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rubberwald

supernova8

Member
Jun 2, 2020
1,841
2,571
420
It's a false narrative. Xbox has games coming out at release and very close to it, but they aren't AAA. It may sound silly but I'm way more excited over the Falconeer than I am Demons Souls (I don't dig souls games).

Plus it's not like early adopters are normally flush with games. I don't think my PS3 got played for over a year after its release and my PS4 wasn't far behind in collecting dust.

You buy systems for potential as an early adopter or you wait until a library gets established then buy into it. Both companies still have pretty substantial support for the existing consoles for the next year so it doesn't really hurt to wait. But with backwards compatibility you can kinda get the best of both worlds.

I tried to specify "heavy hitter/major games" so as to avoid the minefield of people twisting my words. They do have games coming yes but they aren't even talking about them.

I think we're generally on the same ish page here. I also don't really care for Souls games but it is nice to have something pretty to look at. All generations have those sorts of games. With PS2 for example it was ESPN Snowboarding and Fantavision. I remember when I got a 360, it was Project Gotham 3, Perfect Dark Zero, Kameo, Amped 3, Condemned. They were all these games that were like "Hey this is a new generation, look what we can do now!"

Even Xbox One had a great launch lineup! Not quite as good as 360 but still decent - totally let down by the fact they tried (and failed) to force Kinect on me.

The difference this time seems to be that Xbox is almost ignoring the fact they have any new games coming out at all around launch. Usually both platforms would be trying to drum up excitement around the games they do having coming out even if it wasn't much. Feel free to disagree but the Xbox marketing is like "nooope don't look over there where our new games are, look over here at all the BC stuff!". Sony has been relatively quiet compared to Microsoft in overall terms but most of what they have talked about has been focused on new games even if they aren't necessarily coming out yet.

Even their (generally shit but whatever) Dual Sense marketing blitz via Youtubers was done using a new Astrobot title only coming to PS5.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Gideon_128

NoMoChokeSJ

Banned
Jun 3, 2014
1,575
1,407
580
Well they have (intentionally IMO) avoided discussing new games because there really is nothing to discuss in terms of heavy hitters that will be coming out any time soon.

Their messaging right now is "You can play all these games you've already played at higher resolutions/framerates (while you wait for new games to actually come out..at some point.. in the future)!"
Granted Sony's messaging isn't much better: "Look at these 2 whole new games you can play! Spider Man and Demons Souls! (OK sure Demons Souls is a remake, Spider Man is cross-gen but there's nothing else to play but shit happens)!"

Somehow having any new major games available at/around launch is no longer an interesting talking point for Xbox fans?
Similarly, teraflops is somehow no longer an interesting talking point for Sony fans?

Honestly both sides are comically pedantic about certain things.
I don't think that not having major games coming out isn't a talking point to xbox fans, it's just not the only one. MS seemed to be pretty clear in their messaging about cross gen support for the first two years and CoVid hasn't exactly been helpful for anybody. And obviously Halo didn't help, but at least they are listening to their fan base.

I think MS is playing to the strengths of their console, and for a lot of Xbox gamers improved backwards compatibility is a big deal. The reality is that the beginning of every generation is always barren so for many BC fills a gap. The humor is that there are tons of Sony fans that are also excited about playing older games on the PS5. They just like to play down the benefits.

I also think that the goal posts about games gets moved frequently for personal agenda. Last generation there was a focus on the importance of indies for the PS4 and uproar about the xbox expectation of first pick. This generation indies are now irrelevant to the rhetoric driven posters. Obviously the whole TF discussion, console exclusivity, and even the importance of exclusives. Realistically, if fpeople want to bitch about something, they'll find something to bitch about.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MrFunSocks

Redlancet

Banned
Jun 7, 2020
1,675
3,180
525
It's a false narrative. Xbox has games coming out at release and very close to it, but they aren't AAA. It may sound silly but I'm way more excited over the Falconeer than I am Demons Souls (I don't dig souls games).

Plus it's not like early adopters are normally flush with games. I don't think my PS3 got played for over a year after its release and my PS4 wasn't far behind in collecting dust.
Thats not true at all, and thats not a false narrative, no even a forza game at launch? They have time and money and yet they failed again, stop doing damage control for ms, they arent the underdog, its their fault at this point, and people keep sugercoating all their bad decisions, good for you if you like the falcooner, nobody cares
 

xion4360

Member
Dec 30, 2010
2,301
524
960
Bridgeport, CT
So.. More than 99%, but less than 100%?

would need numbers for a %..right now we just have words. also it didnt seem clear to me if they meant nearly all xbox and 360 BC games would get 16xaf now, or if it also includes xbox one games now. it would be great if we got 16xaf for one games.
 
Last edited:

NoMoChokeSJ

Banned
Jun 3, 2014
1,575
1,407
580
Thats not true at all, and thats not a false narrative, no even a forza game at launch? They have time and money and yet they failed again, stop doing damage control for ms, they arent the underdog, its their fault at this point, and people keep sugercoating all their bad decisions, good for you if you like the falcooner, nobody cares
It is a false narrative, because they are games that are coming out, they just aren't AAA. I don't need to do damage control for MS, just like you don't need to try to discredit them. Their console will speak for itself, just like the PS5 will. The flaws and the strengths will become more apparent over time.

If you dislike my opinion or "don't care" about my interest, then feel free to move the fuck along and not reply. Save everybody the drama of your trolling and your weird console insecurity. Honestly it adds nothing to the conversation and only details the thread.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MrFunSocks

MrMephistoX

Member
May 18, 2007
6,381
3,751
1,435
Now, this is the info we want to hear!
I have a feeling most of my games library will be on Xbox and just the PS exclusives on PlayStation.
Love that I can just pick up some older games and enjoy them at enhanced visuals and framerates while we all wait for the next-gen cycle to start picking up pace.

TBH I might rebuy a few 3rd party games I own on PS4 just to experience this. BC is already great on One X but this is a huge deal for me. Mass Effect with better graphics and Framerate? Yes please.
 

splattered

Member
Feb 8, 2012
2,380
2,678
825
TBH I might rebuy a few 3rd party games I own on PS4 just to experience this. BC is already great on One X but this is a huge deal for me. Mass Effect with better graphics and Framerate? Yes please.

I'd wait for the long rumored Mass Effect trilogy remaster before playing through them again :)
 

MrMephistoX

Member
May 18, 2007
6,381
3,751
1,435
I'd wait for the long rumored Mass Effect trilogy remaster before playing through them again :)

I’m worried they’re going to fuck with them too much. Honestly ME1 was my personal fave but was hamstrung by technical issues. A frame rate boost would solve a lot of that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: splattered

Mars2003

Neo Member
May 23, 2020
6
8
100
16xAF is great, plenty of games suffered from muddy/blurry textures and this will bring such a diff. That said, X1X already did this for some titles, Halo5 looked so much better for the improvements to AF than the launch version on X1.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Panajev2001a

Knightime_X

Member
Dec 17, 2018
803
905
360
Sucks this only applies to a handful of games.
Really wished games like COD Modern Warfare 2, Asura's Wrath etc Xbox 360 got a boost to 4k.
But nope.

:(
 

bender

Bending Rodríguez (22, 1,729)
Apr 12, 2010
9,325
13,744
1,420
Sucks this only applies to a handful of games.
Really wished games like COD Modern Warfare 2, Asura's Wrath etc Xbox 360 got a boost to 4k.
But nope.

:(

I tried to go back to Sonic All-Star Racing Transformed this weekend. It looks rough.