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Xbox had to spend millions to compete with a dominant PlayStation

Dr_Ifto

Member
"Xbox had to spend millions to secure parity with PlayStation"

You know what.. I don't have an issue with this.. The money went straight to the developers.

If the adoption rate is say 1:4 between Xbox and PS, and the extra sales don't cover the extra dev cost of porting to Xbox, why even go through the trouble?

There hasn't been anything stopping MS from building up their existing studios or opening up new ones. Instead we have the wealthiest platform vacuuming up existing publishers that would have thrived even without being bought by MS.

Remember Xbox had a clause that games had to release day and date on Xbox?

This is just Microsoft brass' usual crying to the media and fanbase for sympathy points and "virtue" ammunition - for the acquisitions they've been going through.
Im actually ok with it too. Gotta pay sometimes to get games. Like them sending devs to Larian for BG3. You make it back on the flip side. Have to have the narrative that "We have X games too"

Also agree that this is all "Woe is Me" marketing PR to make Sony look bad after all the negative press they have been getting lately.
 
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Reactions: K2D

Dr_Ifto

Member
Developers being in Sony's pocket is bad for industry. As of now, Sony isn't a sort of company that can ensure industry growth.

Look at what happened in Japan. Developers are clueless as to what sells well in Japan and rest of the world.
What sells well in Japan? Just look at what is selling in Japan. Nintendo software.
 

Chukhopops

Member
"Xbox had to spend millions to secure parity with PlayStation"

You know what.. I don't have an issue with this.. The money went straight to the developers.

If the adoption rate is say 1:4 between Xbox and PS, and the extra sales don't cover the extra dev cost of porting to Xbox, why even go through the trouble?

There hasn't been anything stopping MS from building up their existing studios or opening up new ones. Instead we have the wealthiest platform vacuuming up existing publishers that would have thrived even without being bought by MS.

Remember Xbox had a clause that games had to release day and date on Xbox?

This is just Microsoft brass' usual crying to the media and fanbase for sympathy points and "virtue" ammunition - for the acquisitions they've been going through.
Peter Moore left Microsoft 16 years ago and he’s talking about the OG Xbox launch period FYI.
 
I agree, because clearly MS knows how to foster growth or how to nurture internal studios to create great games. Wait a sec...

MS managing their internal studios is a different discussion altogether.

They gave a formula to developers with Halo and got out of the way. Gamepad online fps gaming is still seeing growth, with mobile games too emulating a gamepad.

We don't have something similar for Japan. Who will come up with one?
 
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StereoVsn

Member
MS managing their internal studios is a different discussion altogether.

They gave a formula to developers with Halo and got out of the way. Gamepad online fps gaming is still seeing growth, with mobile games too emulating a gamepad.

We don't have something similar for Japan. Who will come up with one?
MS is incompetent at managing their studios. We can see it with the delays and substandard releases. Yes, Flight Simulator, Forza and probably Starfield are good (and can't really attribute Starfield to MS all things considered).

Japan? Capcom, From, even SE are making pretty good games. And that's not counting plenty of other studios like Atlus, Falcom, Sega (ok, this one is iffy 😉).

For sub services, GamePass appears to be stagnating in sub numbers, and most to the growth is on PC side.
 
MS is incompetent at managing their studios. We can see it with the delays and substandard releases. Yes, Flight Simulator, Forza and probably Starfield are good (and can't really attribute Starfield to MS all things considered).

Japan? Capcom, From, even SE are making pretty good games. And that's not counting plenty of other studios like Atlus, Falcom, Sega (ok, this one is iffy 😉).

For sub services, GamePass appears to be stagnating in sub numbers, and most to the growth is on PC side.

You are ignoring point I made.

MS doing what it's doing hasn't resulted in less interest in pc/console gaming.

Premium gaming hasn't been reduced to 10% of total gaming market in rest of the world.

In fact, whatever growth we are seeing in gaming, you can trace it all back to online fps gamepad gaming.
 

StereoVsn

Member
You are ignoring point I made.

MS doing what it's doing hasn't resulted in less interest in pc/console gaming.

Premium gaming hasn't been reduced to 10% of total gaming market in rest of the world.

In fact, whatever growth we are seeing in gaming, you can trace it all back to online fps gamepad gaming.
MS is locking up gaming studios and they are producing crap. That's not certainly beneficial.

Did they damage overall state of gaming? Not as much but they did have an affect of further consolidation in the industry. And who knows what happens going forward.

As far as "online FPS gamepad gaming" - no clue what you mean here. Are you saying that MS support of Bungee and pushing to release Halo (and later on Gears) advanced shooters on the consoles?
 
Sony is a very difficult business to go against…

Remember when bill said this?

Absolutely, my dad is 71 and still scours the green sheets looking for old Sony stereo revivers (1970s - 1980s) and record players.

His claim, Sony once upon a time was the top of the line for stereo equipment.
 
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MS is locking up gaming studios and they are producing crap. That's not certainly beneficial.

Did they damage overall state of gaming? Not as much but they did have an affect of further consolidation in the industry. And who knows what happens going forward.

As far as "online FPS gamepad gaming" - no clue what you mean here. Are you saying that MS support of Bungee and pushing to release Halo (and later on Gears) advanced shooters on the consoles?

Do you follow camera industry? It died a painful death at hands of mobile.

Similar fate would have been of gaming if we didn't had COD, Fortnite etc. All these owe their success to Halo. As being the original blue print for success.
 

StereoVsn

Member
Do you follow camera industry? It died a painful death at hands of mobile.

Similar fate would have been of gaming if we didn't had COD, Fortnite etc. All these owe their success to Halo. As being the original blue print for success.
Eh, I will agree to disagree, don't think console gaming would have died if not for Halo. Porting shooters to consoles was logical next tsteo. Halo was certainly influential but it was not the savior of the industry.
 

StereoVsn

Member
I understand his point, but it's obviously hyperbolic. No one bought the Vita. Both PSVR units have struggled commercially. PS Move was a disaster. Outside of PlayStation, Betamax, Minidisc, UMDs, Aibo all failed.
Throw in Sony's mobile phone efforts or portable music players. Or their ebook readers. Sony as a brand is not a sure way to sales success.
 
Eh, I will agree to disagree, don't think console gaming would have died if not for Halo. Porting shooters to consoles was logical next tsteo. Halo was certainly influential but it was not the savior of the industry.

Read into it as you will. I am glad it didn't came to that.

Though Nintendo/Sony certainly couldn't prevent devestation of premium gaming in Japan.
 

drganon

Member
Do you follow camera industry? It died a painful death at hands of mobile.

Similar fate would have been of gaming if we didn't had COD, Fortnite etc. All these owe their success to Halo. As being the original blue print for success.
CarefreeWarlikeArgusfish-size_restricted.gif
 

sinnergy

Member
Eh, I will agree to disagree, don't think console gaming would have died if not for Halo. Porting shooters to consoles was logical next tsteo. Halo was certainly influential but it was not the savior of the industry.
We all know GoldenEye 64 saved the industry even more and before that the NES, after the console crash in the 80s! Nintendo our savior 😱
 

K2D

Banned
Peter Moore left Microsoft 16 years ago and he’s talking about the OG Xbox launch period FYI.
And nothing has changed in those 16 years. They're all the same.

The only thing that would make you think otherwise is Satya Nadella and to a certain degree Phil Spencer's olive branch-touting.
 

devilNprada

Member
Absolutely, my dad is 71 and still scours the green sheets looking for old Sony stereo revivers (1970s - 1980s) and record players.

His claim, Sony once upon a time was the top of the line for stereo equipment.
The Sony EX line in the 80's early 90's had no equal..
Their electronics were soo popular they completely stopped advertising.

The argument is they got their hands into too many products, so the companies that specialized like Bose in speakers, and Pioneer in car Stereos; just simply became better products.
 
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Bend Studio (acquired by sony in 2000)
Bluepoint Games (acquired by sony in 2021)
Bungie (acquired by sony in in 2022)
Haven Studios (acquired by sony in 2023)
Housemarque (acquired by sony in 2021)
Insomniac Games (acquired by sony in 2019)
Media Molecule (acquired by sony in 2010)
Naughty Dog (acquired by sony in 2001)
Savage Game Studios (acquired by sony in 2022)
Sucker Punch Productions (acquired by sony in 2011)

Clearly it's only microsoft who buys studios... Some of you are living in a bubble of amazing self-delusion.
You clearly don’t understand what Sony did with those studios.

Every single one, barring Bungie, was mostly or entirely funded by Sony prior to purchase. They’d all made PlayStation exclusive games. They grew those studios before buying them.

Nobody has said Sony don’t buy studios - they just don’t take games and IPs away from other platforms when they do so.

If you can’t see the nuance in those arguments then you don’t belong here due to a lack of comprehension or alternatively, you are a troll.
 

mrcroket

Member
You clearly don’t understand what Sony did with those studios.

Every single one, barring Bungie, was mostly or entirely funded by Sony prior to purchase. They’d all made PlayStation exclusive games. They grew those studios before buying them.

Nobody has said Sony don’t buy studios - they just don’t take games and IPs away from other platforms when they do so.

If you can’t see the nuance in those arguments then you don’t belong here due to a lack of comprehension or alternatively, you are a troll.
No, all those studios were independent from sony and were bought later because of the quality of their games. And of course they had exclusive games, because sony had the absolute dominance of the market during PSX and PS2, which was when these studios emerged. And at that time is when sony was consolidated a large part of the industry and its studios.

So no, sony has not founded these studios, they took advantage of having the monopoly for 2 generations of consoles with a large number of exclusive games (having the largest market), thus leaving the rest of competitors without the possibility of competing as equals. And it is something that any company would have done, because it is their goal, to dominate the market and crush the competition.
 

Chukhopops

Member
And nothing has changed in those 16 years. They're all the same.

The only thing that would make you think otherwise is Satya Nadella and to a certain degree Phil Spencer's olive branch-touting.
The Rock Eye Roll GIF by WWE

Ah yes, Moore and Spencer are definitely the same in terms of strategy, communication style and market situation.

I thought you just misread the article but it seems the problem runs a bit deeper than that.
 

Alebrije

Member
Absolutely, my dad is 71 and still scours the green sheets looking for old Sony stereo revivers (1970s - 1980s) and record players.

His claim, Sony once upon a time was the top of the line for stereo equipment.
And CRT Tvs...it was an era where Sony was the king on home electronics...also brands like Hitachit , Pionner , RCA where well.know...but Sony had a special place so no doubt older people see the brand as top noch.

I am talking about an era before Walkman , Betamax , Handycam, etc...late 60's
 
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No, all those studios were independent from sony and were bought later because of the quality of their games. And of course they had exclusive games, because sony had the absolute dominance of the market during PSX and PS2, which was when these studios emerged. And at that time is when sony was consolidated a large part of the industry and its studios.

So no, sony has not founded these studios, they took advantage of having the monopoly for 2 generations of consoles with a large number of exclusive games (having the largest market), thus leaving the rest of competitors without the possibility of competing as equals. And it is something that any company would have done, because it is their goal, to dominate the market and crush the competition.

Of the studios that Sony has today, has any of them made a relevant game that is not financed by Sony? most were unknown in the industry until Sony supported them with their technology and resources

Bungie is a clear exception, but Insomniac's history is strongly tied to Sony.
 

mrcroket

Member
Of the studios that Sony has today, has any of them made a relevant game that is not financed by Sony? most were unknown in the industry until Sony supported them with their technology and resources

Bungie is a clear exception, but Insomniac's history is strongly tied to Sony.
PSX sold 100 million consoles and ps2 155 million. Evidently it was the ideal platform to be known since they had the monopoly of the market, if you wanted to be known in the market (and more being new) you had to go through playstation. If the market had been divided, these games from these studios would have been multiplatform. And besides, the price of making games at that time was not absurd figures of millions as it's now, they didn't need to be financed as today, so these studios could have released their games and succeeded equally for their quality
 

bender

What time is it?
Sony spent billions on Bungie, a former internal studio of MS, they also spent billions on Insomniac, now Xbox will never get a sequel to Sunset Overdrive. Combined acquisitions over the years is as big, if not bigger than Activision.

Pot meet Kettle. MS having deeper pockets doesn't make the situation more evil.

I'm impressed with how much "wrong" you can fit into so few sentences.

d6kmr1g-00d62607-0efb-417f-ae1b-188a4c5c81c9.gif
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Sony spent billions on Bungie, a former internal studio of MS, they also spent billions on Insomniac, now Xbox will never get a sequel to Sunset Overdrive. Combined acquisitions over the years is as big, if not bigger than Activision.

Pot meet Kettle. MS having deeper pockets doesn't make the situation more evil.
vLI9uq5.jpg
 
No, all those studios were independent from sony and were bought later because of the quality of their games. And of course they had exclusive games, because sony had the absolute dominance of the market during PSX and PS2, which was when these studios emerged. And at that time is when sony was consolidated a large part of the industry and its studios.

So no, sony has not founded these studios, they took advantage of having the monopoly for 2 generations of consoles with a large number of exclusive games (having the largest market), thus leaving the rest of competitors without the possibility of competing as equals. And it is something that any company would have done, because it is their goal, to dominate the market and crush the competition.
I didn’t say founded, I said funded. Massive difference.

Almost all of those were massively funded by Sony. Look at the massive list of games those studios made using Sony’s money. Money they then used to invest and grow. Then Sony bought them. The vast majority never made games for other platforms or if they did, didn’t own the IP for Sony to buy and take exclusive. The only exception is insomniac with Sunset overdrive, but before that they made multiple Spyros, ratchets, resistances etc using Sonys money.

Now compare that to what Microsoft has done - as a result PlayStation will not get games from the following franchises that they otherwise would have:

Hellblade
Fallout
Elder Scrolls
Doom
Starfield
Indiana Jones
Diablo
Overwatch
Etc

Versus

Sunset Overdrive
 
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Snake29

RSI Employee of the Year
Bend Studio (acquired by sony in 2000)
Bluepoint Games (acquired by sony in 2021)
Bungie (acquired by sony in in 2022)
Haven Studios (acquired by sony in 2023)
Housemarque (acquired by sony in 2021)
Insomniac Games (acquired by sony in 2019)
Media Molecule (acquired by sony in 2010)
Naughty Dog (acquired by sony in 2001)
Savage Game Studios (acquired by sony in 2022)
Sucker Punch Productions (acquired by sony in 2011)

Clearly it's only microsoft who buys studios... Some of you are living in a bubble of amazing self-delusion.

The point is...none of these were multiplatform with already established IP's on multiple platforms. There is a difference in both their acquisition strategy. Mostly none of the Sony acquisition take away big IP's from other platforms.

Name a big IP that was so big on multiple platforms, that is now owned by Sony? In your same post, do the same with MS and see how wrong all you people are!

I didn’t say founded, I said funded. Massive difference.

Almost all of those were massively funded by Sony. Look at the massive list of games those studios made using Sony’s money. Money they then used to invest and grow. Then Sony bought them. The vast majority never made games for other platforms or if they did, didn’t own the IP for Sony to buy and take exclusive. The only exception is insomniac with Sunset overdrive, but before that they made multiple Spyros, ratchets, resistances etc using Sonys money.

Now compare that to what Microsoft has done - as a result PlayStation will not get games from the following franchises that they otherwise would have:

Hellblade
Fallout
Elder Scrolls
Doom
Starfield
Indiana Jones
Diablo
Overwatch
Etc

Versus

Sunset Overdrive

I mean this...a franchise like Doom. Which is older then this whole Xbox console could be taken away from other platforms.
 
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PSX sold 100 million consoles and ps2 155 million. Evidently it was the ideal platform to be known since they had the monopoly of the market, if you wanted to be known in the market (and more being new) you had to go through playstation. If the market had been divided, these games from these studios would have been multiplatform. And besides, the price of making games at that time was not absurd figures of millions as it's now, they didn't need to be financed as today, so these studios could have released their games and succeeded equally for their quality
these studios could have chosen to work with any other publisher to create their games and release them on the Playstation platform. but they decided to work directly for Sony and prospered thanks to Sony's money and technology.. the studios that Sony has today were NOTHING until Sony came in and supported them, so even though they weren't created by Sony it was thanks to Sony that They became what they are now, so nobody lost anything when Sony decided to formalize their relationship by buying them.

Jason Rubin said that Naughty Dog would not be what it is now without the support of Sony.

Do you know what exclusive games were going to be cross-platform until Microsoft saw them and paid for the exclusivity? Halo and gears of war were going to be a reality with or without the help of microsoft

.
 

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
It's the same. They didn't want Sony to have the living room. The words "compete" doesn't mean anything.
"Compete" literally means, they are trying to establish Microsoft in the living room.
They wanted to stop Sony and in the documentary, they said they didn't like it that Sony was dominating.

Now the whole ABK trail showed again what Microsoft wanted to do.
So, they wanted to compete in the living room. But you told me in the documentary they mentioned they will delete their competition or Xbox is a failure. You still have not timestamped where in documentary they said that.
You need to look at what the other side was marketing themselves as.
Deering, however, tells a more aggressive version of PlayStation going up against Microsoft.

"We targeted Microsoft from day one -- we were ruthless," he says. "I'm not of this mentality anymore, but at the time it was life or death as far as I was concerned. We had this expression in our business meetings: 'Kill them right at the start and take no prisoners' when it came to Microsoft. It worked at least for PS2, and it continued to work on PS3 and PS4, and it'll probably continue to work on PS5 because we drove piles under the strength of the PlayStation equals games concept at that stage when we were getting ready to take Microsoft on."
The EE and GS die sizes are frightening; vendors of PC processors break out in a cold sweat at the mere thought of a die larger than about 180 mm2.
...
Able to perform many of the functions for which people buy sub-$600 PCs, the PSX2 has the potential to swipe a chunk of the low-end market from under the noses of PC vendors, x86 vendors, and Microsoft.
...
PSX2’s fully Z-buffered, alpha-blended, and textured drawing rate of 1.2 Gpixels/s is higher than those of even the newest round of PC 3D-game hardware.
As I already told you, every platform holder would be happy to remove their competition.
 
And CRT Tvs...it was an era where Sony was the king on home electronics...also brands like Hitachit , Pionner , RCA where well.know...but Sony had a special place so no doubt older people see the brand as top noch.

I am talking about an era before Walkman , Betamax , Handycam, etc...late 60's
This has less to do with Sony and more about where Japan was at in the 1970s and 80s.
Electronics, chips, cars, Gundams. They were leading everything.
 

SHA

Member
Developers being in Sony's pocket is bad for industry. As of now, Sony isn't a sort of company that can ensure industry growth.

Look at what happened in Japan. Developers are clueless as to what sells well in Japan and rest of the world.
But they are doing their own thing, they don't peek at what the others doing, it's the right thing to do, there's nothing to be ashamed of doing that.
 
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....He's right though. Just because one company can afford to go balls out on acquisitions and the other can't isn't some kind of "cheat". One is just way more successful than the other. Thus, more money, more perks. etc, etc, etc...
The bit that got my back up about that FTC trail was Spencer claiming that Xbox is operated as its own division with profit and loss heavily scrutinised.

But then they’ve used their Windows/Azure/Enterprise money to distort the gaming industry - not Xboxes.

You can’t have it both ways. Just be honest.

I’m well aware that doesn’t matter legally etc, but it’s such a shame that the worst company is the one to consolidate.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

Member
....He's right though. Just because one company can afford to go balls out on acquisitions and the other can't isn't some kind of "cheat". One is just way more successful than the other. Thus, more money, more perks. etc, etc, etc...
Buying up everything is monopoly like which is "cheating".

Gamers also have issues because they have been stagnant and haven't made the best use of the purchases, with some being arguably worse since being acquired.
 

RAIDEN1

Member
This should come as no surprise, it's one of the reasons Sega had to pull the plug in staying in the hardware game, they didn't have the financial muscle to compete which they had say in 1987 coming in with the Genesis against at first the NES then the Super NES....
 
So much wrong and bad information about Sony in here I wouldn't know where to start 🙃 anyway, everyone should give that interview a listen on ironlords podcast there's a reason why 360 was and will forever be Xbox’s golden age Peter Moore is just different man he brings the type of energy that a company needs if they are really trying to compete Phil competes but just quietly he's trying to look like the good guy politician Xbox should bring Moore back because if he had Phil's budget...wow
 

reinking

Gold Member
Sony is a very difficult business to go against…

Remember when bill said this?

I do wonder if Microsoft's jealousy (for lack of better word) stems from the fact that Apple and Sony can get away with stuff like "making bricks" and people will buy them but MS has to force people to their products.
 

K2D

Banned
The Rock Eye Roll GIF by WWE

Ah yes, Moore and Spencer are definitely the same in terms of strategy, communication style and market situation.

I thought you just misread the article but it seems the problem runs a bit deeper than that.

Whatever man. Your trying to spin, and put words in people's mouths..

Sony's had to spend money; MS has had to spend money - both had to at some point to get devs to even consider your platform, or to get them to reconsider taking certain deals. Not every exclusive were due to the latter, but I think the PS3/360 era was a huge anomaly in that regard. Many prefering 360 over PS3.

Honestly - I didn't even bother to read the article. I know what they all have in common, and that is disingenuity.
 
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