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Analysis Platform Why is it only Nintendo's new IPs that "don't count"?

Jubenhimer

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It's a game of back and forth you hear often on Video Game fourms.

* Person says Nintendo doesn't make New IPs, all they do is rehash the same characters, over and over
* Nintendo fan lists New IPs that were developed or published by Nintendo
* Person says all those games don't count for reasons x, y, and z

The question as to whether Nintendo introduces New IPs each generation like its contemporaries do or not has sort of been an ongoing debate in the gaming community, one that doesn't look like is ending anytime soon. Nintendo's known for its roster of highly recognizable, and merchandisable mascot characters, and that's both a blessing and a curse. Having arguably the biggest icons in the Video Game industry gives you a leg up for when third party developers aren't always there to help out. But that also means that those characters tend to overshadow the rest of your catelog, and that can pose a problem.

This is where the "Nintendo has no New IPs" stigma sort of stems from. Because Nintendo hasn't introduced a new Mascot that has reached the popularity status of Mario, Pokemon, or Link, outside of arguably Splatoon's Inklings, that obviously means there's no New IP at all. Only, that isn't the case. Any hardcore Nintendo fan such as myself will tell you that Nintendo actually does publish and develop numerous New IP each console, nearly as many as Sony and Microsoft.

On the Nintendo Switch alone, Nintendo has published

1-2 Switch
ARMS
Nintendo Labo
Snipperclips
Astral Chain
The Stretchers
Ring-Fit Adventure
Sushi Striker
Good Job!

And the console's only 3 years old.

The problem is that when people list such games, they're automatically brushed off as "doesn't count because..." and proceeds to list off reasons why they aren't considered, such as they're not for the "core" gaming audience. They're not as high budget as the biggest Nintendo games. They weren't developed completely in-house. They didn't sell well. They're too niche. or They're not good games.

But if we apply all of these criteras to Nintendo's contemporaries such as Sony, in that case, Sony is arguably just as bad as Nintendo supposedly is. Only Horizon, and Dreams were both high budget, critical and commercial successes for them this gen in terms of new IP. The other ones Sony introduced this gen were either commercial failures, got mixed reception, much lower in budget and scope relative to other PS4 exclusives, or were made by non-Sony owned Studios, There's still Ghosts of Tsushima coming, but even then, it's not out yet, and only brings it up to 3 games. And Microsoft might as well not even be competition if we apply any of these rules to them.

Obviously, I'm exaggerating here, both Sony and Microsoft have introduced plenty of New IP if you remove those arbitrary restrictions. My question is. Why is it only Nintendo who has to be judged by these pointless standards, when they seemingly don't apply to the other two?
 
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Mar 19, 2015
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Im sorry but these games

1-2 Switch
ARMS
Nintendo Labo
Snipperclips
Astral Chain
The Stretchers
Ring-Fit Adventure
Sushi Striker
Good Job!

Besides Ring Fit, none of this is interesting to most people. They also sound like mobile titles.

When we say new IP i think they want something on the scale of their biggest ip's like mario or zelda.
 
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Jubenhimer

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When we say new IP i think they want something on the scale of their biggest ip's like mario or zelda.

In that case, I'd say Astral Chain, ARMS, Ring-Fit, and Labo are pretty major in that sense. What you have to keep in mind is that aside from very few exceptions, NIntendo's philosophy has never to spend as much as possible on a single game. Even most of their biggest titles only reach a fraction of Western AAA team sizes.
 

Jubenhimer

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Isnt labo a cardboard boz?

It looks that way at first. But the amount of engineering behind each cardboard toy is actually surprisingly complex. And the creation tools the games give you (especially the VR Kit) are insane. People have done some crazy things with Labo in such a short time.

It's easy to look at it as just some simple gimmick, and in some ways it kind of is, but there's a lot more to it than just that.
 

GymWolf

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maybe because in that list the only noticeably good thing is astral chains and even that is a 7-8 out of 10 game at best.

switch is gonna be remembered for zelda botw and mario odissey and maybe next metroid (if it doens't come out directly on switch 2) and maybe xeno 2 (not really a new ip either) not 1-2 switch or sushi striker or the others you mentioned.

labo is mostly a childs thing and almost a laughing stock on the internet and not something hardcore gamers care in the slightest, and ring fit is not better than any mildly good vr game where you move and sweat like a pig with far better immersion, thrill of the fight, a very well made boxe simulation made by one person eat ring fit (or arms) for breakfast and expell him in the afternoon as a gamey workout title.
 
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TLZ

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In that case, I'd say Astral Chain, ARMS, Ring-Fit, and Labo are pretty major in that sense. What you have to keep in mind is that aside from very few exceptions, NIntendo's philosophy has never to spend as much as possible on a single game. Even most of their biggest titles only reach a fraction of Western AAA team sizes.
Labo? Really? Isn't that thing dead?
 
Jan 16, 2020
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In that case, I'd say Astral Chain, ARMS, Ring-Fit, and Labo are pretty major in that sense. What you have to keep in mind is that aside from very few exceptions, NIntendo's philosophy has never to spend as much as possible on a single game. Even most of their biggest titles only reach a fraction of Western AAA team sizes.

Lol no. Arms is Nintendo's Knack.
 

EightBit Man

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I assume most people want grander, and more serious/hardcore titles. There was a time when Metroid was a new game, as well as F-ZERO, Earthbound, Wave Race 64, etc. These games didn't rely on external, supplemental accessories.

Not saying some of these games aren't good, but they are a far cry from Nintendo's former output.
 

cireza

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ARMS is awesome. But Nintendo does not make many new IPs with some real budget.

Splatoon and AMRS were a true breath of the wild fresh air though.
 
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Jubenhimer

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I assume most people want grander, and more serious/hardcore titles. There was a time when Metroid was a new game, as well as F-ZERO, Earthbound, Wave Race 64, etc. These games didn't rely on external, supplemental accessories.

Not saying some of these games aren't good, but they are a far cry from Nintendo's former output.

I can understand that. I would like to see more of these types of games from Nintendo in the future. Then again, we just got Astral Chain last year. Xenoblade was only 2 consoles ago too. And there was even Codename STEAM on the 3DS (RIP). So it's not like these games have completely disappeared from Nintendo's lineup.

ARMS is awesome. But Nintendo does not make many new IPs with some real budget.

Splatoon and AMRS were a true breath of the wild fresh air though.

Ring-Fit, Astral Chain, and Labo all had some real budget.
 

Pizdetz

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New IP that people care about is usually a AAA title.
Nintendo's AAA lineup is generally a rehashed Mario or Zelda.
Where Nintendo deserves credit is gameplay innovation, not character/IP innovation. It doesn't matter if they re-use the same characters, as long as they keep the gameplay fresh they get points for originality.
 

GymWolf

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Let's put it this way. I see a lot more Nintendo fans talk about ARMS positively, than I see PlayStation fans talk about Knack.
knack is shitted online mostly from people who never played it.

most people i know who played the game score it an honest 6-7.

the game has perfect controls, repsonsive combat, GREAT enemy variety for his scope and on hard is more difficult than a lot of games on hard, i relatively enjoyed my time with both, especially the second one where you have a lot more moves for combat.

it is also fun in coop.

the real flaws are the art design, the story and the very simple platform section (a little better in the sequel)

i tried the demo for arms and i was bored after 10 minutes of it and the art design is even worst than knack if possible...
 
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Jubenhimer

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knack is shitted online mostly from people who never played it.
I'd say the same is true for ARMS. Many people downing this game on forums probably only played like 5 minutes at most, if at all. It's not for everyone, but those who've stuck with it can tell you its one of the Switch's best, and most underrated games.
 
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Pizdetz

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Would Astral Chain or ARMS be considered AAA then? What about Splatoon or Ring Fit Adventure.

I think Astral Chain, ARMS and Splatoon would be considered AAA. Ring Fit Adventure is a specialized peripheral and the game play is exercise (I have it, it's great, but it's not a fun "game").
These games however are no where close to being in the same tier as Nintendo's mainline AAA, such as Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, etc. It's not a bad thing, I think my point is Nintendo relies on reworking old IP rather than it relies on new IP. Sony on the other hand just pumps out new hits constantly with a mix of their old IP as well.
 

Frogman_676

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i thought the fantastic Splatoon put a rest to this kinda shit. The argument used to be "anything besides Pikmin hur dur"

i definitely consider splatoon as a Nintendo heavy-hitter though. It's not only a great franchise, but also fills in a large gap in the Nintendo library (online shooter)
 

mejin

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You have the answer with your list. New ips are trash compared to their old classic ones.

Anyway, people buy nintendo toys to play nintendo games. So there are no problems imo
 
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Would Astral Chain or ARMS be considered AAA then? What about Splatoon or Ring Fit Adventure.

Nintendo doesn't make AAA gsmes outside of its most established franchises.

Nintendo does alot of things better thsn Sony or Microsoft. Creating new big IPs is not one of them. They don't really need to either. Their style works for them

Though i suppose Microsoft isnt doing very well in that area either
 

Jubenhimer

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Ring Fit Adventure is a specialized peripheral and the game play is exercise (I have it, it's great, but it's not a fun "game").
I don't really think it being built on a peripheral makes it not AAA. The production values and content of the game are all on par with the likes of ARMS and Splatoon. So I don't see why it's some magical exception.

These games however are no where close to being in the same tier as Nintendo's mainline AAA, such as Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, etc.
Nothing is really. I won't deny that Nintendo is more dependent on its flagship characters than Sony is. But I don't think they're not good at introducing new IP either. But people assume that it should reach the status of Mario, Zelda, and DK instantly. When virtually no new IP gets that successful, that fast. Even Animal Crossing, which became one of Nintendo's S-teir IPs, only sold 2 million in its first entry. Mario and Zelda took years to reach the status they're at now, and its impossible to make a new IP with the expectation that it'll join those ranks right away.
 
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Grinchy

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Snipperclips was a really fun launch game. Astral Chain seems like it could be good, but I didn't play it.

But if you're pointing to games like 1-2 Switch, ARMS, and some of those cell phone games as examples of compelling new IP, you know you're dealing with a really short list.
 

Jubenhimer

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I don't care about casual games. So that leaves Astral Chain, which is a second party effort. In-house, they don't make many new IPs that's all.
Whether you care about them or not isn't the point. They're still high quality games with a fairly large budget behind them.

Also, second party isn't a concept that actually exists. Nintendo was very involved with Astral Chain, they own the copyrights to it. Nintendo is way more than in-house games, which only make up a small fraction of its yearly output.
 

cireza

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Whether you care about them or not isn't the point.
It is absolutely the point to me. They can be the best at making bicycles, I have zero interest in those. From a gamer's perspective, these games don't exist, just as we don't count Sega's arcade or pachinko efforts, as well as Konami sport centers.

I don't care either about the fact that second party does not exists as people use it and perfectly understand. Nintendo publishes a handful of second party games to attract gamers, that's how they work, and this is where they will allow some creativity. But that's not many games, and does not necessarily translates to big budgets either.
 
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SirTerry-T

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knack is shitted online mostly from people who never played it.

most people i know who played the game score it an honest 6-7.

the game has perfect controls, repsonsive combat, GREAT enemy variety for his scope and on hard is more difficult than a lot of games on hard, i relatively enjoyed my time with both, especially the second one where you have a lot more moves for combat.

it is also fun in coop.

the real flaws are the art design, the story and the very simple platform section (a little better in the sequel)

i tried the demo for arms and i was bored after 10 minutes of it and the art design is even worst than knack if possible...
The art direction in Arms shits on that found in Knack from an incredibly great height, we're talking Felix Baumgartner parachuting from space sort of height.
 

Yoboman

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OP: Why do Nintendo new IP not count fot arbitrary reasons?

Also OP: Sony new IP don't count for arbitrary reasons
 
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Jubenhimer

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From a gamer's perspective, these games don't exist, just as we don't count Sega's arcade or pachinko efforts, as well as Konami sport centers.

Those aren't actual video games though. Ring Fit is a video game. It's not even that casual either LOL.

Also OP: Sony new IP don't count for arbitrary reasons

I don't actually think that. I was applying the standards people use on Nintendo, to Sony to show how silly the argument made is.
 
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Jubenhimer

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Sega's arcade games are video games as well.

And people often counted them when talking about some of their best games in the past. So why can't we do the same for Nintendo's "casual" or peripherial based games?
 

GymWolf

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The art direction in Arms shits on that found in Knack from an incredibly great height, we're talking Felix Baumgartner parachuting from space sort of height.
yeah sure 😆

they are both ultra shit in term of art design, let's be honest here.
 
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cireza

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And people often counted them when talking about some of their best games in the past. So why can't we do the same for Nintendo's "casual" or peripherial based games?
Not really. Most people don't know half the games that they released in arcades, and when people count them, it is because they had home ports. Nobody talks about Initial D, R-Tuned, Sega Smash TV, Quest of D or Shining Force Cross.
 
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Jubenhimer

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Not really. Most people don't know half the games that they released in arcades, and when people count them, it is because they had home ports. Nobody talks about Initial D, R-Tuned, Sega Smash TV, Quest of D or Shining Force Cross.

Maybe it's because none of those games you listed ever released outside Japan, or aren't what people think of when they think Sega in the Arcades. No, Daytona USA, Crazy Taxi, Virtua Fighter, After Burner, Space Harrier, Hang On, and others are what people think of when they think Sega Arcade games.
 

deriks

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Labo? Really? Isn't that thing dead?
Nope. It's not that big of a deal, but still has praise
1-2 Switch
ARMS
Nintendo Labo
Snipperclips
Astral Chain
The Stretchers
Ring-Fit Adventure
Sushi Striker
Good Job!
While those games are great, chances are that most of it we will never see nothing outside the Switch. I guess that just the Arms guys and the Ring-Fit guys are the new "Nintendo characters". And Splatoon is on the newcomers of Nintendo. It's a new IP and answers the question of a "shooter made by Nintendo".

But in the end of the day it's like people said. Console wars people are stupid. Don't listen to those who says that this or that "doesn't count". Those guys probably just play GTA, CoD and Fifa.
 
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It's weird, as I look forward to Nintendo's new IPs (I especially went wild on the Splatoon reveal back in 2014), and I get really sad when they don't make new entries for them.

Games like Golden Sun/Sin & Punishment/Magical Vacation/Drill Dozer etc rarely, if ever get sequels if the next game flops (and when we say flop, we mean it still sells better numbers than most of SEGA's IPs).

If Nintendo fans choose to not support these games, then it says that they like playing it safe with the Trinity of Mario/Zelda/Pokemon. They should be like a SEGA fan and try everything the company offers before passing judgement.

Nintendo, when they absolutely go all out, actually make really interesting IPs but they tend to reaaaaalllly be risk-averse and stop making sequels if it doesn't make more than a million.

If people dismiss Nintendo's new IPs then it means they simply like to diss on their mainstays and ignore when they branch out. I am still awaiting on a new Golden Sun (and to make it decent).

Sushi Striker absolutely deserves to succeed for being a unique puzzle game. Tetris Attack got more releases than this game purely for using Nintendo characters. Both games should stand alone with their unique characters and gameplay.
 
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Nankatsu

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Astral Chain shouldn't even be on that list. Its easily one of the top tier games on Switch. Actually when it comes to action, it's the best there is on the platform.
 
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Vawn

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Nintendo has tons of different IPs. They just use many of the same characters to do it.

For example, Paper Mario is NOT the same series as Mario Bros. Same with Mario Kart, Smash, various Mario sports games, Captain Toad, etc.

And if Splatoon had been made with Mario characters instead of new characters, it still would be no less of a new IP/franchise.
 
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KellyNole

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They do rely upon their tried and true sellers, but every generation they add at least one game that is added to their future rotation.

N64: Smash Brothers, Paper Mario
GameCube: Pikmin, Luigi's Mansion
Wii: Xenoblade
Wii U: Splatoon, Mario Maker

These help their lineup grow. Plus their output for a console manufacturer is ridiculous.

On the switch:

Zelda BOTW
Mario odyssey,
Splatoon,
Arms,
Xenoblade chronicles 2,
Mario tennis,
Smash brothers,
Kirby Star Allies,
Pokemon Go,
Pokemon Sword and Sheild,
1-2 Switch,
ARMS,
Nintendo Labo,
Snipperclips,
Astral Chain,
The Stretchers,
Ring-Fit Adventure,
Sushi Striker,
Good Job!,
Daemon X Machina,
Dr. Kawashima’s Brain Training for Nintendo Switch,
Fire Emblem: Three Houses,
Fire Emblem Warriors,
Luigi's Mansion 3,
The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening,
Animal Crossing: New Horizon,
Mario Maker

These are off of the top of my head. That is in three or so years of the console life with Paper Mario coming out soon. They have such a rich back catalog of games, why not continue to use them if people keep wanting them? As long as they add a few new ones here or there I am good. I should say though, I don't own only a Nintendo console, so I do get more of a variety. With that said, I can see where someone who only owns a Switch might be coming from.
 
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MagnesG

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Well I also didn't care about most AAA games either so it "doesn't count" for me too.

ARMS sold really well for a fighting game - beating most of its contenders, sequel is pretty much confirmed when they basically nailed the character designs on the first try. It will only gets better from here.

Ring Fit Adventure had good legs.
Sushi Strikers flopped sadly.
Astral Chain will be joining Xenoblade soon imo as a strong exclusive.
 

Airola

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OP: "The problem is that when people list such games, they're automatically brushed off as "doesn't count because..." and proceeds to list off reasons why they aren't considered, such as they're not for the "core" gaming audience. They're not as high budget as the biggest Nintendo games. They weren't developed completely in-house. They didn't sell well. They're too niche. or They're not good games."

Replies: "They're not for the "core" gaming audience. They're not as high budget as the biggest Nintendo games. They weren't developed completely in-house. They didn't sell well. They're too niche. They're not good games."

:messenger_moon::messenger_ok:
 
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diffusionx

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I assume most people want grander, and more serious/hardcore titles. There was a time when Metroid was a new game, as well as F-ZERO, Earthbound, Wave Race 64, etc. These games didn't rely on external, supplemental accessories.

Not saying some of these games aren't good, but they are a far cry from Nintendo's former output.

I think this is more indicative of the whole industry than anything else. Grand and hardcore titles are really hard to make. They cost a fortune, need hundreds of people, and take forever. It's really hard to justify putting those resources into one game, especially if you have the back catalog of Nintendo and their audience CLEARLY is always clamoring for more from that. In fact, I see them criticized more for not making games in those franchises then making new ones. You can't really do both anymore.

Like F-Zero/Wave Race - sorry the arcade racing genre is dead. Nobody is making new games in that genre anymore, except indie companies on Steam. That is just a market reality Nintendo has to live with. And back when Nintendo was churning out those games, so was everyone else. Sony was putting out like 10 new franchises a year on the PS1. it just doesn't work like that anymore.
 
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Pizdetz

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I don't really think it being built on a peripheral makes it not AAA. The production values and content of the game are all on par with the likes of ARMS and Splatoon. So I don't see why it's some magical exception.

What exactly does Ring Fit do that makes it AAA? Does it have voice acting besides that annoying Ring? Does it have deep RPG elements? Does it have amazing graphics? Does it have a captivating story?
Can you really imagine anyone being like "I can't wait for Ring Fit Adventure 2"? Ring Fit is basically a one-off l just like Wii Fit or Wii Sports. It's high quality for what it is, but it's not a "game" that can be compared to other AAA actual games by today's standards. If you actually enjoy the mediocre RPG elements and repetitiveness of Ring Fit as an actual game, then more power to you, but I wouldn't even consider it as a "game" or an "IP". That is just absurd.
 

Scotty W

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I recall reading that when Miyamoto created Mario, he originally wanted to name him Mr. Video, and out him in every game he made. The man with this attitude is responsible for much of Nintendo’s success. Given that, it is surprising how much Nintendo has tried to branch out with new IP’s.

As I see it, Nintendo has a few core IP’s across a few genres and they intend for those to be definitive for the tech of that generation. There is quite a bit of innovation within these established IP’s. I think this creates a slightly misleading picture that Nintendo does not innovate; since most other companies package their innovations with new IP’s.

With that being said, I think they put way too much emphasis on Mario and Zelda to carry the system. Having the Xeno franchise is a good step for them. Metroid is great as an fps, but I think it is a bit too ‘cold’ to be massively successful. The same could be said of the Xeno series as well. Starfox is not well represented, as they skip generations (give me a Star Fox rpg from the Panzer Dragoon team).

Does the perceived lack of new IP’s actually hurt their sales in the big picture?
 
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