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[VGC] Xbox president says Apple’s third-party app store fees are ‘a step in the wrong direction’

Ozriel

M$FT
What it all boils down to.

We want access to the large customer base you built, to sell our products - without giving you a cut.

Imagine doing this is a big box store. Hey Walmart, we want your shelf space to sell our products and you get nothing.

Imagine doing this in Windows or MacOS 🤣

I suppose those don’t count as ‘large customer base’ or those weren’t built by MS and Apple, eh?
 

Fredrik

Member
Microsoft just want Sony to be forced to allow Gamepass on Playstation. That’s step 2. First closed mobile platforms, then closed console platform.
 

Three

Member
M$ really complaining about conduct when they acted appallingly during the ABK saga - pipe down.
I don't like Apple's policy one bit but this. They tried fighting and skirting everything regulators were telling them and people were cheering that on. Now that same company is trying to disparage another company fighting regulators in the same way? Any other company has a point but MS need to pipe down.

Imagine doing this in Windows or MacOS 🤣

I suppose those don’t count as ‘large customer base’ or those weren’t built by MS and Apple, eh?
It's like you don't remember the person fighting Apple now having the same quarrel with MS and windows not long ago. That's until the store kind of failed and opened things up over time.

 

Banjo64

cumsessed
I see. So once Apple allows alternative app stores, someone is going to come up to you and force you at gunpoint to install them?

Chrome is a pre-installed, core app, so it’s surprising you’re bringing this up as an example of issues an open platform can face.
Maybe, if M$ get their way.

It’s fascinating that only Apple seem to be the only major phone player who have perfected hardware that doesn’t slow down over time and doesn’t have a load of issues - and it just so happens that they have a walled garden.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
Maybe, if M$ get their way.

It’s fascinating that only Apple seem to be the only major phone player who have perfected hardware that doesn’t slow down over time and doesn’t have a load of issues - and it just so happens that they have a walled garden.

They literally just got over a class action lawsuit for them throttling phones and slowing them down.

iOS has had quite a number of issues over the years…and your phone would be just as stable if your next door neighbor used alternative app stores.

No shit..
Doesn't Xbox charge a 30% cut?
Let's start there!

consoles run with a different financial model.
The day the courts force Sony, MS and Nintendo to open their platforms to alternative stores, half of this forum become retro gamers 🤣

$70 games are already a stretch for many. Good luck with the new unsubsidized prices of consoles.
 

Bojji

Member
Of course they did. They were desperate to build a userbase.

Where’s Windows Phone now?

What about android? WP failed for many reasons and sideloading wasn't one of them.

IOS is only highly popular OS that operates like walled garden, it's the exception not the rule. Even one of the first phone operating systems (Symbian) allowed sideloading, I had "smartphone" (Nokia N73) few years before iPhone appeared.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
What about android? WP failed for many reasons and sideloading wasn't one of them.

IOS is only highly popular OS that operates like walled garden, it's the exception not the rule. Even one of the first phone operating systems (Symbian) allowed sideloading, I had "smartphone" (Nokia N73) few years before iPhone appeared.


I’m not saying it failed because of side loading.
I am saying it was an included feature because they were desperate to grow a userbase.
 

ssringo

Member
I know it's an impossibility but I'd love if Apple's response to being regulated was "screw you guys, I'm going home" and just pulled the plug in the EU.

middle finger GIF
 

JackMcGunns

Member
M$ really complaining about conduct when they acted appallingly during the ABK saga - pipe down.


What is it that you're defending here? Are you against companies controlling everything or not? If it's not Ok for MS to do it, then why should it be Ok for Apple to do it? You've been overly critical to everything MS.


Imagine if Apple tried to charge netflix a 30% fee for every single movie in their catalog. It's fair game when you make purchases say if you rent or buy a movie, 30% goes to Apple for every copy of Oppenheimer sold in apps like Vudu, but what about streaming? Gamers want to stream games and Apple is being anit-competitive, plain and simple.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
That literally says all apps must pass a review by apple and be assigned a a signed cert. 😵‍💫
They don't have to be certified. You can still install whatever apps you want from wherever you want on a Mac. You just have to dig into the security options and approve the app to run. Notarization doesn't slow down the subsequent releases and updates, either. As long as you've uploaded your new release for notarization you can start distributing it while it's under review.
 

JackMcGunns

Member
I know it's an impossibility but I'd love if Apple's response to being regulated was "screw you guys, I'm going home" and just pulled the plug in the EU.

middle finger GIF


That's what Apple was doing to YOUR face forcing you to buy their proprietary shit when USB-C was a great standard that works across devices and even better than a crappy USB-A to lightning shit cable. Thank the EU for now having USB-C on iPhone 15's and up.
 
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devilNprada

Member
consoles run with a different financial model.
Talking storefronts though...

Xbox being a closed platform I do not see being different than Apples, only in that Apple has a fuck ton more out in the world.
What about android?
Android is across multiple phone manufacturers though, same with Windows and even MAC OS...

I see IOS on Apple hardware only is more similar to PS or Nintendo, in which there are alternative's.
 

ssringo

Member
That's what Apple was doing to YOUR face forcing you to buy their proprietary shit when USB-C was a great standard that works across devices and even better than a crappy USB-A to lightning shit cable. Thank the EU for now having USB-C on iPhone 15's and up.
I have no horse in this race. I do not and have never bought Apple products.

I simply had a thought that slightly amused me and shared it. No need to get mad about it. Praise the regulators!

Wild West Cowboy GIF by Morgan Creek
 

Topher

Gold Member
When a company gets to be the size of Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, Google, etc. then I think a bit of public oversight into their practices are warranted. Ultimately the problem here are the fees imposed on purchases. 30% is far too high. I mean.....look at Apple and their revenue. They have 100% upcharge on their phones and then get 30% of all revenue that phones produces? No wonder they are worth a couple trillion bucks. I might think differently if Apple were a company pushing for open standards of smart phone technology, but at the same time as they have a firm grip on their walled garden, they have created proprietary mechanisms with messaging and file sharing as well. So now.......consumers wanting other options than Apple have to weigh giving up those proprietary features which are heavily entwined with iPhones of friends and family. All that is by design.

Frankly, I don't think we should all be subject to the will of a $2.9 trillion dollar corporation's sheer greed. Either way, Microsoft ain't the ones to champion this cause. They would be doing the same thing if they could.
 
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ReBurn

Gold Member
Where you can download games? I didn’t know that at all. Any you would recommend?
It's less an ability to download games as it is a development subculture that shares apps developed for Xbox that can be run in dev mode. it's been a thing ever since Xbox One started allowing UWP development in dev mode. There are a lot of apps like music and video players as well as some games, though they're nothing like you would see in retail mode.

I think the point he's trying to make is that Xbox isn't completely closed to third party apps. You can run a lot of third party apps in dev mode. But that's not the same thing as allowing third party storefronts in retail mode.
 
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Ozriel

M$FT
The richest company in the world wants everything on a platter and by leaching competitors.

Go build your own store and stop crying, Microsoft.

I guess all the developers and publishers complaining about the same thing are also the ‘richest company in the world’, eh?

This shit is hilarious at this point. People taking console platform warring into a talking point about consumer choice on a portable computer you carry around with you all the time.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
What is it that you're defending here? Are you against companies controlling everything or not? If it's not Ok for MS to do it, then why should it be Ok for Apple to do it? You've been overly critical to everything MS.

I’m not sure where the comparison is sorry?

If I want an open platform, I can buy an Android.

If I want to buy new Zenimax games, I’m forced in to Microsoft’s system.

Hope that clears it up for you.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
I guess all the developers and publishers complaining about the same thing are also the ‘richest company in the world’, eh?

This shit is hilarious at this point. People taking console platform warring into a talking point about consumer choice on a portable computer you carry around with you all the time.
Only you are needlessly making it a "console war" thing because that's always on top of your mind. Or perhaps it's the ever-present persecution complex.

Anway, I own an iPhone. I pay 6x the amount in my country to have an iPhone over an Android phone. I have it because it's a closed and secure platform that works flawlessly even after years. If I wanted an open platform, I'd have bought an Android phone at a significantly cheaper price.

So, yeah, if Microsoft wants open platforms, they should first open its closed Xbox platform and seamlessly allow other game stores on Xbox (without charging a single $ for it), before teaching Apple what to do with their products.
 

thief183

Member
I know it's an impossibility but I'd love if Apple's response to being regulated was "screw you guys, I'm going home" and just pulled the plug in the EU.

middle finger GIF
Yea sure, do you really think they will renounce at 800 million potential costumers?

I think in this forum ppl fail to realise that the US population is about 300 million, not even half of the Europe one and nothing compared to China and India.

No corporation would piss off 800 million constumers (potential)
 

Ozriel

M$FT
Only you are needlessly making it a "console war" thing because that's always on top of your mind. Or perhaps it's the ever-present persecution complex.

Anway, I own an iPhone. I pay 6x the amount in my country to have an iPhone over an Android phone. I have it because it's a closed and secure platform that works flawlessly even after years. If I wanted an open platform, I'd have bought an Android phone at a significantly cheaper price.

I’ve got multiple iiOS devices, and yes, they’re largely secure and stable platforms. None of that will change if alternative stores are allowed on iOS without the crazy fees Apple is demanding.

So, yeah, if Microsoft wants open platforms, they should first open its closed Xbox platform and seamlessly allow other game stores on Xbox (without charging a single $ for it), before teaching Apple what to do with their products.

This makes zero sense since the business models of console market is dramatically different from that of flagship phones.
You’d have a point if Windows was locked down…but alas.
 

devilNprada

Member
You are only just realizing that consoles are subsidized, and the vast majority of profits are generated from game sales?
Apple's highest margins are Apple services not their hardware.
I believe it's been determined consoles haven't sold at a loss since PS3?
I really fail to see the difference.
 

MarkMe2525

Gold Member
The richest company in the world wants everything on a platter and by leaching competitors.

Go build your own store and stop crying, Microsoft.
Weird take considering thats what MS (amongst other companies) are literally attempting to do (build their own store) on apples general purpose mobile platform. It's Apple that is putting up the roadblocks.
 
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ScHlAuChi

Member
The entitlement from these companies complaining is breathtaking just go create a damn competitor nobody wants to compete anymore
"just go create a damn competitor".... How old are you? 15? Or what sort of kindergarten logic is that!
You cannot compete with somoene the size of Apple - especially when they break the law!
The whole point of the DMA and DSA is to re-enable competiton in markets entrenched by such players.

it's all about the easy profits
You mean like Apple`s 15-30% tax they take of every dev?
When you use Netflix or Spotify on an iPhone, what exactly did Apple do to deserve a cut?
When you buy an app on 3rd party store, what exactly did Apple do to deserve a cut?
THAT is easy profit! That is exactly why they cling to this even willing to clash with the EU over it.

and with apples userbase the profits could be astronomical
but getting governments to change laws to weaken apple's profits and pump up yours is something I'll never be able to get behind.
1. Apple got warned and fined in multiple countries after behaving anti competitive.
2. Apple laughed about the tiny fines and continued to behave anti competitive becasue the profits were just too good.
3. Government introduces strikter rules wth stronger punishments to prevent Apple from continued law breaking.
4. Apple announces new rules intended to undergo the new laws.
5. Crispy Gamer blames the referee for all the fouls his team did.
 

Quasicat

Member
Yep. Apple has an app certification and notarization process that allows Mac apps to be signed by the developer and they can be distributed from anywhere. There are some strings attached, such as having to provide a copy of your signed code for security scanning and notarization, but the ridiculous fees aren't there. If Apple finds malware in the binary they revoke the cert and the app stops running. The could use this model for third party apps on iOS without the fees, but it was never about security of iOS.
I bought my first Mac last summer and was surprised how easy it was to download a couple of apps that are not found on the App Store. They work perfectly and I’ve never had an issue with their security. This is about money…plain and simple.
 

ScHlAuChi

Member
Yeah I couldn't read past this bullshit...
No wonder, when you got no arguments!

But I give you another chance on this to back up your "just make a competitor" claim:
1. Who should that other competitor be? Got any companies in mind?
2. Who would invest in a competitor to Google and Apple when Microsoft´s Windows phone proved it was a failure and a giant money sink?
3. If your new competitor makes their own OS, why would anyone develop for it?
4. If your new competitor has no apps, why would anyone use it?

If you have convincing answers I take back what I said.
 
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