Probably easier to say when your biggest platform is open to any install source.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
[VGC] Xbox president says Apple’s third-party app store fees are ‘a step in the wrong direction’
- Thread starter Thick Thighs Save Lives
- Start date
- News
Probably easier to say when your biggest platform is open to any install source.
Imagine doing this in Windows or MacOS
I suppose those don’t count as ‘large customer base’ or those weren’t built by MS and Apple, eh?
I don't like Apple's policy one bit but this. They tried fighting and skirting everything regulators were telling them and people were cheering that on. Now that same company is trying to disparage another company fighting regulators in the same way? Any other company has a point but MS need to pipe down.
It's like you don't remember the person fighting Apple now having the same quarrel with MS and windows not long ago. That's until the store kind of failed and opened things up over time.Imagine doing this in Windows or MacOS
I suppose those don’t count as ‘large customer base’ or those weren’t built by MS and Apple, eh?
Microsoft wants to monopolise games development on PC. We must fight it
Microsoft is looking to dominate the games industry ecosystem with its aggressive new UWP initiative. Developers must oppose this, or else cede control of their titles
www.theguardian.com
Banjo64
cumsessed
Maybe, if M$ get their way.
It’s fascinating that only Apple seem to be the only major phone player who have perfected hardware that doesn’t slow down over time and doesn’t have a load of issues - and it just so happens that they have a walled garden.
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Just so you know, Windows Phone and it's predecessor Windows Mobile always allowed you to install third party apps.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
and why they did fail?
devilNprada
Member
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Of course they did. They were desperate to build a userbase.
Where’s Windows Phone now?
They literally just got over a class action lawsuit for them throttling phones and slowing them down.
iOS has had quite a number of issues over the years…and your phone would be just as stable if your next door neighbor used alternative app stores.
consoles run with a different financial model.
The day the courts force Sony, MS and Nintendo to open their platforms to alternative stores, half of this forum become retro gamers
$70 games are already a stretch for many. Good luck with the new unsubsidized prices of consoles.
Bojji
Member
What about android? WP failed for many reasons and sideloading wasn't one of them.
IOS is only highly popular OS that operates like walled garden, it's the exception not the rule. Even one of the first phone operating systems (Symbian) allowed sideloading, I had "smartphone" (Nokia N73) few years before iPhone appeared.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
The richest company in the world wants everything on a platter and by leaching competitors.
Go build your own store and stop crying, Microsoft.
Go build your own store and stop crying, Microsoft.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I’m not saying it failed because of side loading.
I am saying it was an included feature because they were desperate to grow a userbase.
JackMcGunns
Member
What is it that you're defending here? Are you against companies controlling everything or not? If it's not Ok for MS to do it, then why should it be Ok for Apple to do it? You've been overly critical to everything MS.
Imagine if Apple tried to charge netflix a 30% fee for every single movie in their catalog. It's fair game when you make purchases say if you rent or buy a movie, 30% goes to Apple for every copy of Oppenheimer sold in apps like Vudu, but what about streaming? Gamers want to stream games and Apple is being anit-competitive, plain and simple.
ReBurn
Gold Member
They don't have to be certified. You can still install whatever apps you want from wherever you want on a Mac. You just have to dig into the security options and approve the app to run. Notarization doesn't slow down the subsequent releases and updates, either. As long as you've uploaded your new release for notarization you can start distributing it while it's under review.That literally says all apps must pass a review by apple and be assigned a a signed cert.
JackMcGunns
Member
I know it's an impossibility but I'd love if Apple's response to being regulated was "screw you guys, I'm going home" and just pulled the plug in the EU.
That's what Apple was doing to YOUR face forcing you to buy their proprietary shit when USB-C was a great standard that works across devices and even better than a crappy USB-A to lightning shit cable. Thank the EU for now having USB-C on iPhone 15's and up.
Last edited:
Trogdor1123
Gold Member
So we will see new app stores on Xbox soon then?
JackMcGunns
Member
There are tons of them, Devs release apps all the time. More recently you have to switch your console to Dev mode, but it's still allowed and possible.
Gamr13's Repo
gamr13.github.io
Last edited:
devilNprada
Member
Talking storefronts though...
Xbox being a closed platform I do not see being different than Apples, only in that Apple has a fuck ton more out in the world.
Android is across multiple phone manufacturers though, same with Windows and even MAC OS...
I see IOS on Apple hardware only is more similar to PS or Nintendo, in which there are alternative's.
ssringo
Member
I have no horse in this race. I do not and have never bought Apple products.
I simply had a thought that slightly amused me and shared it. No need to get mad about it. Praise the regulators!
Trogdor1123
Gold Member
Where you can download games? I didn’t know that at all. Any you would recommend?
Topher
Gold Member
When a company gets to be the size of Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, Google, etc. then I think a bit of public oversight into their practices are warranted. Ultimately the problem here are the fees imposed on purchases. 30% is far too high. I mean.....look at Apple and their revenue. They have 100% upcharge on their phones and then get 30% of all revenue that phones produces? No wonder they are worth a couple trillion bucks. I might think differently if Apple were a company pushing for open standards of smart phone technology, but at the same time as they have a firm grip on their walled garden, they have created proprietary mechanisms with messaging and file sharing as well. So now.......consumers wanting other options than Apple have to weigh giving up those proprietary features which are heavily entwined with iPhones of friends and family. All that is by design.
Frankly, I don't think we should all be subject to the will of a $2.9 trillion dollar corporation's sheer greed. Either way, Microsoft ain't the ones to champion this cause. They would be doing the same thing if they could.
Frankly, I don't think we should all be subject to the will of a $2.9 trillion dollar corporation's sheer greed. Either way, Microsoft ain't the ones to champion this cause. They would be doing the same thing if they could.
Last edited:
JackMcGunns
Member
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
The dev mode only app installation method that Microsoft charges a $20 fees for? How is that comparable?
Last edited:
ReBurn
Gold Member
It's less an ability to download games as it is a development subculture that shares apps developed for Xbox that can be run in dev mode. it's been a thing ever since Xbox One started allowing UWP development in dev mode. There are a lot of apps like music and video players as well as some games, though they're nothing like you would see in retail mode.
I think the point he's trying to make is that Xbox isn't completely closed to third party apps. You can run a lot of third party apps in dev mode. But that's not the same thing as allowing third party storefronts in retail mode.
Last edited:
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
As a long time Apple fanboy I hope the EU nails them to the wall.
I guess all the developers and publishers complaining about the same thing are also the ‘richest company in the world’, eh?
This shit is hilarious at this point. People taking console platform warring into a talking point about consumer choice on a portable computer you carry around with you all the time.
Banjo64
cumsessed
I’m not sure where the comparison is sorry?
If I want an open platform, I can buy an Android.
If I want to buy new Zenimax games, I’m forced in to Microsoft’s system.
Hope that clears it up for you.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Only you are needlessly making it a "console war" thing because that's always on top of your mind. Or perhaps it's the ever-present persecution complex.
Anway, I own an iPhone. I pay 6x the amount in my country to have an iPhone over an Android phone. I have it because it's a closed and secure platform that works flawlessly even after years. If I wanted an open platform, I'd have bought an Android phone at a significantly cheaper price.
So, yeah, if Microsoft wants open platforms, they should first open its closed Xbox platform and seamlessly allow other game stores on Xbox (without charging a single $ for it), before teaching Apple what to do with their products.
thief183
Member
Yea sure, do you really think they will renounce at 800 million potential costumers?I know it's an impossibility but I'd love if Apple's response to being regulated was "screw you guys, I'm going home" and just pulled the plug in the EU.
I think in this forum ppl fail to realise that the US population is about 300 million, not even half of the Europe one and nothing compared to China and India.
No corporation would piss off 800 million constumers (potential)
ZoukGalaxy
Member
*for their bank account and CEO bonuses
"Microsoft, 2024"
"Microsoft, 2024"
Last edited:
I’ve got multiple iiOS devices, and yes, they’re largely secure and stable platforms. None of that will change if alternative stores are allowed on iOS without the crazy fees Apple is demanding.
This makes zero sense since the business models of console market is dramatically different from that of flagship phones.
You’d have a point if Windows was locked down…but alas.
devilNprada
Member
How is it different?
You are only just realizing that consoles are subsidized, and the vast majority of profits are generated from game sales?
Unlike most other consumer electronics devices, including flagship phones?
Putonahappyface
Member
Change billion to trillion and you're golden.
Am I doing it right?
devilNprada
Member
Apple's highest margins are Apple services not their hardware.
I believe it's been determined consoles haven't sold at a loss since PS3?
I really fail to see the difference.
MarkMe2525
Member
Weird take considering thats what MS (amongst other companies) are literally attempting to do (build their own store) on apples general purpose mobile platform. It's Apple that is putting up the roadblocks.
Last edited:
apocaliptic
Member
Microsoft also takes 30% of sales on their xbox store 
ScHlAuChi
Member
"just go create a damn competitor".... How old are you? 15? Or what sort of kindergarten logic is that!
You cannot compete with somoene the size of Apple - especially when they break the law!
The whole point of the DMA and DSA is to re-enable competiton in markets entrenched by such players.
You mean like Apple`s 15-30% tax they take of every dev?
When you use Netflix or Spotify on an iPhone, what exactly did Apple do to deserve a cut?
When you buy an app on 3rd party store, what exactly did Apple do to deserve a cut?
THAT is easy profit! That is exactly why they cling to this even willing to clash with the EU over it.
1. Apple got warned and fined in multiple countries after behaving anti competitive.
2. Apple laughed about the tiny fines and continued to behave anti competitive becasue the profits were just too good.
3. Government introduces strikter rules wth stronger punishments to prevent Apple from continued law breaking.
4. Apple announces new rules intended to undergo the new laws.
5. Crispy Gamer blames the referee for all the fouls his team did.
Crispy Gamer
Member
Yeah I couldn't read past this bullshit...
MarkMe2525
Member
*deleted, off topic
Last edited:
Why isn't Steam available on Xbox?
GHG
Member
No no no, you don't understand you see.
They just want to open everything else up to their services, not the other way round.
bitbydeath
Member
The App store on Windows would be even more impressive.
devilNprada
Member
LOL - MS is currently bigger than Apple!
How many subscribers has Netflix gotten simply by putting an app in the Apple store?
Netflix certainly did not have to release an app on IOS!
Quasicat
Member
I bought my first Mac last summer and was surprised how easy it was to download a couple of apps that are not found on the App Store. They work perfectly and I’ve never had an issue with their security. This is about money…plain and simple.
ScHlAuChi
Member
No wonder, when you got no arguments!
But I give you another chance on this to back up your "just make a competitor" claim:
1. Who should that other competitor be? Got any companies in mind?
2. Who would invest in a competitor to Google and Apple when Microsoft´s Windows phone proved it was a failure and a giant money sink?
3. If your new competitor makes their own OS, why would anyone develop for it?
4. If your new competitor has no apps, why would anyone use it?
If you have convincing answers I take back what I said.