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Trump takes aim at Toyota over Mexico plans

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B

Breads

Banned
The president can now bully businesses into doing whatever the fuck he feels like or sanction them?

What was the word for this again?

I thought he wanted the government to get out of the way of business.

Which is it.
 
RPGCrazied

RPGCrazied

Member
Breads said:
The president can now bully businesses into doing whatever the fuck he feels like or sanction them?

What was the word for this again?

I thought he wanted the government to get out of the way of business.

Which is it.
Click to expand...

Dictator? Has American ever had one of those? I can't think of any. No one has been this bad as Trump is being.
 
U

Usobuko

Banned
Bo-Locks said:
I get that these are global manufacturers, NAFTA stands in the way of automobile import tariffs and increasing protectionism the world over will lead to untended negative consequences, but at the same time, the relentless free-trade, offshoring and shedding of industry cannot continue unchecked in the West since it's clearly not benefiting its citizens enough.

Maybe I’m just too much of an idiot to see why this is a problem, but what I do know is that after Brexit and Trump, the ripostes to this type of populism have not been anywhere near convincing enough.
Click to expand...

It doesn't benefits the citizens because the ones screwing you guys are your very own people at the top. They are the stakeholders, they captured 95%+ of the economic growth from free trade and leave everyone for breadcrumbs.
 
P

ponziacs

Banned
Bo-Locks said:
Can someone honestly explain why they're upset with Trump's threats to increase tariffs on automobile imports and why this is a bad idea for Americans?

During the whole Brexit debate, there was (and still is) a lot of focus on how the EU deals with vehicle manufacturers. Manufacturers face heavy import duties for vehicles imported into the trading bloc, and so if manufacturers want tariff-free access to the massive European market, they're heavily incentivised to base their plants within the EU. It's essentially a massive protectionist measure to secure jobs and to sure up the German and wider EU automobile-manufacturing industry. I don't even necessarily have any problems with this, that's the whole point of the EU, right? To group together to increase their collective strength for the benefit of their citizens and member states. The same thing happens with agriculture and virtually every other industry you can think of in the EU.

The US is a tighter-knit collection of states than EU, with a similar GDP, so it has every right to protect its citizen’s jobs, industry and interests in such ways. It's literally the exact same thing the EU does.

So when Trump makes these kind of tweets, and says that if manufacturers and corporations want unfettered access to the massive American market, they need to base themselves and a large part of their work in the USA, why do you (particularly the Americans in this thread) have such a problem with this? Do you have a fundamental problem with this kind of policy or it it just a knee-jerk reaction against Trump's more "colourful" moments?

I get that these are global manufacturers, NAFTA stands in the way of automobile import tariffs and increasing protectionism the world over will lead to untended negative consequences, but at the same time, the relentless free-trade, offshoring and shedding of industry cannot continue unchecked in the West since it's clearly not benefiting its citizens enough.

Maybe I’m just too much of an idiot to see why this is a problem, but what I do know is that after Brexit and Trump, the ripostes to this type of populism have not been anywhere near convincing enough.
Click to expand...

Good question

When EU makes moves to protect themselves it seems everyone's ok with it.
 
L

liquidtmd

Banned
ponziacs said:
Good question

When EU makes moves to protect themselves it seems everyone's ok with it.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of it is diplomacy.

Having the leader of the free world saying 'BUILD IN MEXICO WILL YOU, BWUHAHA GONNA FUCK YOU UP BOIII' is not the best way forward
 
J

Joeytj

Banned
Bo-Locks said:
Can someone honestly explain why they're upset with Trump's threats to increase tariffs on automobile imports and why this is a bad idea for Americans?

During the whole Brexit debate, there was (and still is) a lot of focus on how the EU deals with vehicle manufacturers. Manufacturers face heavy import duties for vehicles imported into the trading bloc, and so if manufacturers want tariff-free access to the massive European market, they're heavily incentivised to base their plants within the EU. It's essentially a massive protectionist measure to secure jobs and to sure up the German and wider EU automobile-manufacturing industry. I don't even necessarily have any problems with this, that's the whole point of the EU, right? To group together to increase their collective strength for the benefit of their citizens and member states. The same thing happens with agriculture and virtually every other industry you can think of in the EU.

The US is a tighter-knit collection of states than EU, with a similar GDP, so it has every right to protect its citizen’s jobs, industry and interests in such ways. It's literally the exact same thing the EU does.

So when Trump makes these kind of tweets, and says that if manufacturers and corporations want unfettered access to the massive American market, they need to base themselves and a large part of their work in the USA, why do you (particularly the Americans in this thread) have such a problem with this? Do you have a fundamental problem with this kind of policy or it it just a knee-jerk reaction against Trump's more "colourful" moments?

I get that these are global manufacturers, NAFTA stands in the way of automobile import tariffs and increasing protectionism the world over will lead to untended negative consequences, but at the same time, the relentless free-trade, offshoring and shedding of industry cannot continue unchecked in the West since it's clearly not benefiting its citizens enough.

Maybe I’m just too much of an idiot to see why this is a problem, but what I do know is that after Brexit and Trump, the ripostes to this type of populism have not been anywhere near convincing enough.
Click to expand...

Look, for the same reason that the US is important as market for their cars, Toyota also already has six plants in the country. It's a big car country, for both production and consumption. The U.S. doesn't need much to force companies auto companies to have plants in its territory.

Unions and other incentives, both market based and through government policies, already do enough to keep auto manufacturing in the U.S., at least whatever manufacturing it can keep that isn't lost to automation.

We in Mexico do have something like what the EU has and you want for the U.S., which is a law that forces auto companies to build at least one model in the country if they want to sell their cars here in Mexico. And it's worked wonders, as we're now the 4th or 3rd largest auto manufacturer in the Western Hemisphere and one of the top 10 in the world, in just the span of two decades.

BUT, that law would never had worked if Mexico didn't also invest in logistical infrastructure for the entire manufacturing sector, wasn't also part of NAFTA (the Mexican market is treated as domestic by both Canada and the U.S.), didn't also have a growing middle class that could by cars (why would manufactures bother with Mexico if nobody will buy their cars anyway?) and had a prepared workforce, since auto manufacturing is highly sophisticated now.

The U.S. doesn't need that many auto manufacturing jobs as much as they still need to buy cars, that's the problem with Trump's promises and "policies".

Look at what happened with Ford. Ford took away a needed $1.6 billion dollar investment from Mexico that would have created 1,800 good paying jobs over here, and instead will just create 700 R&D jobs (and not a lot of manufacturing) in Michigan with $700 million. They aren't even going to open a new plant and automation will eat up more than 700 jobs in the coming years anyway.
 
R

Reversed

Member
Toyota already replied, and I hope it's not the Ford situation all over again (though I'm happy for their aim at automating jobs).
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
The issue all along is the world can't really have a global economy if everyone isn't on page.

Instead you end up having to play sides. China is looking out for guess who? China.

Mexico wants to look out for guess who? Mexico

Incoming US president wants to look out for guess who? The USA

If we had some greater form of one world government and tax base and standard rules and such across all parties where everyone is playing the same game and all parties involved and their people are benefiting equally this whole thing would work out differently.

That's not the setup we currently have though nor will we anytime soon.

Hence why counties try and look after themselves.
 
A

Agent_ShortBus

Member
Madness said:
It is racist for an American president to want to keep jobs in his country instead of a foreign one? What kind of logic is that?
Click to expand...

I thought Toyota was building a new plant in Mexico not moving one from the U.S. What jobs is he keeping here that weren't here to begin with???
 
T

Two Words

Member
People that get angry at companies moving jobs to different countries are so single-minded. It's like they think America deserves of the jobs. How dare those foreigners be given the opportunity to earn a living.
 
A

Ac30

Member
Agent_ShortBus said:
I thought Toyota was building a new plant in Mexico not moving one from the U.S. What jobs is he keeping here that weren't here to begin with???
Click to expand...

The ones going to Mexico, clearly.

As for the EU comparison, NAFTA is a designed to do this - auto manufacturers are free to build plants in low-wage countries in the EU as well to cut costs. This is no different to Toyota building a plant in Mexico to save costs. Both are FTAs
 
P

pulsemyne

Member
SO basically he's saying that if someone wants to sell something in America it has to be made in America or it gets taxed to hell and back. Good idea Donald. Way to sabotage your own economic growth.
For a business man he's fucking clueless.
 
M

Makonero

Member
pulsemyne said:
SO basically he's saying that if someone wants to sell something in America it has to be made in America or it gets taxed to hell and back. Good idea Donald. Way to sabotage your own economic growth.
For a business man he's fucking clueless.
Click to expand...

his six bankruptcies told me that

how the fuck do you go bankrupt while owning a fucking casino is beyond me
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Two Words said:
People that get angry at companies moving jobs to different countries are so single-minded. It's like they think America deserves of the jobs. How dare those foreigners be given the opportunity to earn a living.
Click to expand...

Americans want jobs in America news at 11.

You'll notice people in Mexico want jobs in *gasp* Mexico. China wants jobs in China. Canada wants jobs in Canada. Britan wants jobs in Britan.

Incoming US president is trying to look out for more jobs in the US vs incoming US president looking out for Mexican jobs in Mexico?

We need to debate this on actual policy and #s vs hopes and wishes for man kind.
 
H

hawk2025

Member
Vanillalite said:
Americans want jobs in America news at 11.

You'll notice people in Mexico want jobs in *gasp* Mexico. China wants jobs in China. Canada wants jobs in Canada. Britan wants jobs in Britan.

Incoming US president is trying to look out for more jobs in the US vs incoming US president looking out for Mexican jobs in Mexico?
Click to expand...


That's a 10-year-old's thinking way of putting it.

I want the president to care about jobs in the US, about the wellness of the world, and to think about more than just the immediate thing in their face.

Like for example, the impact on prices.
 
L

Lonely1

Unconfirmed Member
Ac30 said:
The ones going to Mexico, clearly.

As for the EU comparison, NAFTA is a designed to do this - auto manufacturers are free to build plants in low-wage countries in the EU as well to cut costs. This is no different to Toyota building a plant in Mexico to save costs. Both are FTAs
Click to expand...

Build in California or pay big (state) border tax!
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Ac30 said:
The ones going to Mexico, clearly.

As for the EU comparison, NAFTA is a designed to do this - auto manufacturers are free to build plants in low-wage countries in the EU as well to cut costs. This is no different to Toyota building a plant in Mexico to save costs. Both are FTAs
Click to expand...

Of course NAFTA was designed for this.

Trump all along has campaigned against NAFTA. Hell Bernie Sanders campaigned against this too.

The argument we need to be having is should NAFTA still be a thing? If so why or why not with some hard numbers.

On the surface incoming President of the USA tying to get jobs in the USA feels like news at 11 vs having the harder conversation we need to be having here.
 
L

Lonely1

Unconfirmed Member
Vanillalite said:
Of course NAFTA was designed for this.

Trump all along has campaigned against NAFTA. Hell Bernie Sanders campaigned against this too.

The argument we need to be having is should NAFTA still be a thing? If so why or why not with some hard numbers.

On the surface incoming President of the USA tying to get jobs in the USA feels like news at 11 vs having the harder conversation we need to be having here.
Click to expand...

Get a few thousand jobs by disrupting a trillion dollar trade zone. That sounds like a good strategy for the future...
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
hawk2025 said:
That's a 10-year-old's thinking way of putting it.

I want the president to care about jobs in the US, about the wellness of the world, and to think about more than just the immediate thing in their face.

Like for example, the impact on prices.
Click to expand...

Trump's whole campaign has been China looks after China. Mexico looks after Mexico. Yet the US is supposed to look out for everyone.

This is literally his rationale that he went all throughout the rust belt with that helped win him some key states.
 
H

hawk2025

Member
Vanillalite said:
Trump's whole campaign has been China looks after China. Mexico looks after Mexico. Yet the US is supposed to look out for everyone.

This is literally his rationale that he went all throughout the rust belt with that helped win him some key states.
Click to expand...


I'm sorry, did I not make it clear?

Trump's whole campaign ALSO followed the thinking and logical capacity of a 10-year-old.

You need to decide if you are playing devil's advocate or making a point. I can deal with both, but let me know either way.
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
hawk2025 said:
I'm sorry, did I not make it clear?

Trump's whole campaign ALSO followed the thinking and logical capacity of a 10-year-old.
Click to expand...

No you didn't?

I'm not sold either way personally as I haven't exhaustively looked through the numbers both globally and individually both for NAFTA and the EU.

That being said nobody in here has actually tried to make a compelling argument with figures from say the CBO on if NAFTA is a net gain or a net loss and for whom with facts and figures.

For the record this isn't a straight liberal conservative divide either as Republicans in their big field as well as Bernie and Hillary had different views on the subject.
 
Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
He keeps on projecting the image of fighting for the little guy with these tweets. This will only reinforce his support in the formerly blue firewall. Democrats need to counter with their own PR if they don't want to lose again. Underestimate Trump's marketing prowess at your own peril, fellow liberals.

Or we can keep making jokes about how stupid he obviously must be lolol.
 
D

Dusk Soldier

Member
koji kabuto said:
I wonder if people who celebrated this will regret doing so when they realize it will just make things cost more for them, Just like cheering for Trump when he promised to fuck up Obamacare then regret it later on.
Click to expand...

I doubt it. Seeing as most people get loans to buy cars. They'll be more concerned with the monthly payment, rather than the total cost.
 
H

hawk2025

Member
Rentahamster said:
He keeps on protecting the image of fighting for the little guy with these tweets. This will only reinforce his support in the formerly blue firewall. Democrats need to counter with their own PR if they don't want to lose again. Underestimate Trump's marketing prowess at your own peril, fellow liberals.

Or we can keep making jokes about how stupid he obviously must be lolol.
Click to expand...


BRB, starting a PR firm real quick.
 
Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
koji kabuto said:
I wonder if people who celebrated this will regret doing so when they realize it will just make things cost more for them, Just like cheering for Trump when he promised to fuck up Obamacare then regret it later on.
Click to expand...
Do you say the same thing to anti Walmart people too?
 
N

Nafai1123

Banned
Vanillalite said:
No you didn't?

I'm not sold either way personally as I haven't exhaustively looked through the numbers both globally and individually both for NAFTA and the EU.

That being said nobody in here has actually tried to make a compelling argument with figures from say the CBO on if NAFTA is a net gain or a net loss and for whom with facts and figures.

For the record this isn't a straight liberal conservative divide either as Republicans in their big field as well as Bernie and Hillary had different views on the subject.
Click to expand...

It's hard to make a definitive argument one way or another given the complexity of the issue. You can read a bit here . The problem is supporters of NAFTA will argue certain metrics and detractors will argue others.

But I can definitively say that Trump's opinion that "trade deals=bad" is straight up child logic at work.
 
O

orthodoxy1095

Banned
RPGCrazied said:
Dictator? Has American ever had one of those? I can't think of any. No one has been this bad as Trump is being.
Click to expand...
Some of you people have a serious historical lack of perspective. Stop undercutting the argument against Trump by jumping to childish hyperbole.

When Trump actually commits something akin to the Trail of Tears, you can start saying this.
 
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