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[Mibu no ookami]

The gaffes of the One might not have been recoverable but Phil has done very little to pull back from the nosedive with the significance of the little determined by how one weighs the impact of the One X or the their Backwards Compatibility program. Everything else feels like a billion dollar throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks with little thought of the long term nor the effects that one clump of shit would have on another. I'm not sure the bolded miracle is a win either. At least if he had made the decision to exit the market and shift focus that would have shown some forethought instead of that decision being forced upon him. We still have "insiders" here thinking there will be more Xbox hardware, be it traditional, a handheld, or a spec for 3rd parties to follow, it all seems destined for a similar fate. Given the war chest that has been spent under his reign and the lack of results, I'm not so sure there isn't an argument to be made.

I think you have to forgive Phil the position he inherited.

He didn't inherit quality development studios. Bungie had already left and Epic had already relinquished Gears. They just didn't have the studios to compete with Sony in a post TLOU world. That was a seismic shift in gaming and in the dynamic between Microsoft and Sony. Honestly, the shift really started with Uncharted 2, but TLOU was a step beyond that.

I think it feels like he has been throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks because so many efforts have been unsuccessful, but they've largely been unsuccessful because the foundation was never there.

Not to get political, but to offer an analogy he is like Putin trying to reconstitute the USSR. What companies did he buy? Zenimax and Activision. The two companies that were extremely key to the success of the Xbox 360.

He is being forced out of the console market as Nadella has clearly had enough. All Phil Spencer did was buy the xbox community some time.

And the die hards will stick with them even if their next hardware is actually a PC as long as it retains Xbox Live and if they release a handheld partnered with ROG that similarly retains Xbox Live, they'll buy that too, but no, I don't think they'll put out another traditional console.

Everything from here on out comes down to timing. When do they announce key games to release on PS5? How do they minimize alienating key consumers who they want to follow them to PC-Land? How do they try and maintain the GamePass numbers that they have with fewer titles coming to the program? The only reason Phil Spencer is still at Microsoft is to navigate that. We'll see how long he lasts.

 

[bender]

I think you have to forgive Phil the position he inherited.

He didn't inherit quality development studios. Bungie had already left and Epic had already relinquished Gears. They just didn't have the studios to compete with Sony in a post TLOU world. That was a seismic shift in gaming and in the dynamic between Microsoft and Sony. Honestly, the shift really started with Uncharted 2, but TLOU was a step beyond that.

I think it feels like he has been throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks because so many efforts have been unsuccessful, but they've largely been unsuccessful because the foundation was never there.

Not to get political, but to offer an analogy he is like Putin trying to reconstitute the USSR. What companies did he buy? Zenimax and Activision. The two companies that were extremely key to the success of the Xbox 360.

He is being forced out of the console market as Nadella has clearly had enough. All Phil Spencer did was buy the xbox community some time.

And the die hards will stick with them even if their next hardware is actually a PC as long as it retains Xbox Live and if they release a handheld partnered with ROG that similarly retains Xbox Live, they'll buy that too, but no, I don't think they'll put out another traditional console.

Everything from here on out comes down to timing. When do they announce key games to release on PS5? How do they minimize alienating key consumers who they want to follow them to PC-Land? How do they try and maintain the GamePass numbers that they have with fewer titles coming to the program? The only reason Phil Spencer is still at Microsoft is to navigate that. We'll see how long he lasts.

I guess it depends on how much one views Phil's responsibility in the very mess that he inherited and if you think someone else could have done a better job given the same financial backing. Like I said, I'm not sure anyone could have saved it but I'm not sure vision that often stepped all over itself gave it the best of chances either.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I guess it depends on how much one views Phil's responsibility in the very mess that he inherited and if you think someone else could have done a better job given the same financial backing. Like I said, I'm not sure anyone could have saved it but I'm not sure vision that often stepped all over itself gave it the best of chances either.

No one else could have done a better job given the options were kill off xbox as a brand or drastically change the business model so that the Microsoft board has interest in it.

He only got financial backing because he promised them he could turn Xbox into Netflix.

Netflix has a 262 billion dollar market cap and they captured that in very little time. That's what Phil was promising. Short of that, Xbox was getting the plug pulled.

You can see it in the e-mails between Nadella, Hood, and Spencer. That the board is constantly on his ass and they've finally had enough, hence the 3rd party push.

A Netflix push was never going to work without streaming being in place, the upfront hardware requirements are a deal breaker. Netflix was able to get so much adoption because it didn't require any special hardware. Maybe if he was able to get xCloud to work earlier it would have been different, but I don't think the bandwidth and tech are there yet, though they're getting close.

 

[bender]

No one else could have done a better job given the options were kill off xbox as a brand or drastically change the business model so that the Microsoft board has interest in it.

He only got financial backing because he promised them he could turn Xbox into Netflix.

Netflix has a 262 billion dollar market cap and they captured that in very little time. That's what Phil was promising. Short of that, Xbox was getting the plug pulled.

You can see it in the e-mails between Nadella, Hood, and Spencer. That the board is constantly on his ass and they've finally had enough, hence the 3rd party push.

A Netflix push was never going to work without streaming being in place, the upfront hardware requirements are a deal breaker. Netflix was able to get so much adoption because it didn't require any special hardware. Maybe if he was able to get xCloud to work earlier it would have been different, but I don't think the bandwidth and tech are there yet, though they're getting close.

Video games aren't consumed like movies or music so their potential as a subscription service is far more limited. Almost anyone can see this so almost anyone else would have been a better choice than Phil.

 

[DavidGzz]

I mean, they need those games to also sell. https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulta...nough-money-but-why-would-it/?sh=416c892d36c7

The kind of people who like games like Hi-Fi REALLY like them, they are loud on the internet, but they are few.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Video games aren't consumed like movies or music so their potential as a subscription service is far more limited. Almost anyone can see this so almost anyone else would have been a better choice than Phil.

The problem is you're still not seeing that without the promise of vast revenue of a subscription service, you're not convincing the board of continuing Xbox.

So the option was GamePass or Game Over.

Phil Spencer bought Xbox another decade...

 

[bender]

The problem is you're still not seeing that without the promise of vast revenue of a subscription service, you're not convincing the board of continuing Xbox.

So the option was GamePass or Game Over.

Phil Spencer bought Xbox another decade...

The problem is that you don't see Game Over as a viable option.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The problem is that you don't see Game Over as a viable option.

Oh, it's definitely viable, but the question here is that could someone have done better as in kept Xbox alive longer or made them successful and that door closed well before Spencer got the seat.

 

[semiconscious]

These guys always have been the biggest bunch of liars. We already have literally dozens of bald face lies from Phil, now its booty's turn. All they do is say the right things fed to them by their PR teams but they have absolutely no intention to actually do the right thing. Fucking politicians in disguise.

Xbox has been run to the ground by these shameless people.

hey, here in the west, we now have people in positions of power who believe that they can actually alter basic physical & geopolitical realities simply by verbalizing their fantasy versions. beyond doing this? they are apparently utterly clueless, incompetent, & impotent...

 

[EDMIX]

I came here just for this one! lol


At this point, I don't even buy what MS says anymore, its like they say shit for PR reasons and their actions don't match a fucking thing.

 

[leizzra]

Well, it seams that PR department was late .

 

[mansoor1980]

phil trying to balance out things.............

 

[cormack12]

 

[Fredrik]

Yesterday:

"These changes are grounded in prioritizing high-impact titles and further investing in Bethesda’s portfolio of blockbuster games..."

Today:

“We need smaller games that give us prestige and awards,”

Really make you wonder how their longterm plan actually look, or if they even have any…

Tbh I used to have a clear view of what I think will happen in the whole industry. But it’s getting foggy. There aren’t just too many cut jobs and closed studios. There are too many VR headsets, too many handhelds, too many PC launchers, too many subscription services, too many everything. Maybe we’re heading toward a new industry wide crash?

How old are you, did you experience the last crash? How was it when it started happening?

I jumped in after the crash, early 80s when Game & Watch was king and Commodore. Things felt fairly stable at that point. Wild west but with so much enthusiasm and creativity among devs, anything was possible.

Maybe AI can save the day? A small team just click a game make button so AI create a game and then spend 1-2 years doing polish? There are mostly iterated old ideas anyway so should be same level of (non)creativity…

Or maybe the future will be all early access? A bunch of new cheaply made concepts and devs only continue working on games they see gamers enjoy at a concept stage.
Moon Studios head are hyping early access when doing No Rest for the Wicked PR. But I feel like they worked on it for too long before doing the EA, 6 years. If it fails now the studio will likely close.

 

[Laptop1991]

That's all Microsoft has been putting out anyway, when did their successful big AAA get released, i must have missed that, Phil Spencer already said he didn't believe making great games would work!, which i will never agree with personally.

 

[cormack12]

Incoming xbox showcase

 

[GymWolf]

Playing the bipolar card to appease the cuckoos

 

[Radical_3d]

It’s the full Xbox cycle:

- We don’t need Tango.
- We need Tango.
- We also need Bizarre Creations.

I feel like there is a universe where Microsoft didn’t canned Bungie when they pitched Destiny and therefore didn’t loose their fucking minds trying to pursue what they already had.

 

[AyraSutoraifu]

Ah, i see the problem: Phil used ChatGPT 3.5 all the time instead of 4…

 

[FunkMiller]

All message cohesion has completely broken down.

In my experience that indicates a break down in the chain of command, and shows that a company is likely at war with itself.

Feels like this is going to get much, much worse.

 

[Yoboman]

The thing you guys haven't realised:

Matt Booty, Phil Spencer... These people do not give a flying fuck about winning the console war, making good games, even really selling hardware or software

They have cared about making their bonuses. Which have been tied to sub growth for a long time now. But seems like that's changed and it may be profit and revenue again

So the best way for them to do that is cut all the excess fat and allow COD to generate profit

 

[ZehDon]

... I feel like there is a universe where Microsoft didn’t canned Bungie when they pitched Destiny and therefore didn’t loose their fucking minds trying to pursue what they already had.

If memory serves, the man in charge of Xbox when Microsoft turned down Destiny, thus beginning the Bungie divorce, was an EA executive back when Microsoft was shopping the OG Xbox around - and he thought the Xbox wasn't a good idea. This was, of course, Don Mattrick. And that's kind of Microsoft's whole problem: once they get an air of success in one of their little divisions, the suites move in and "Microsoft" the shit out of it. For all the money they spend, it really does seem that Spencer's Xbox legitimately can't tell a good game - like a Halo Helldivers-esque title they passed on - from the trash - like Halo Infinite and Redfall. The gamers - people like House, Cerny or Yoshida - seem to be long gone.

 

[AyraSutoraifu]

Can someone make a gif where the xbox logo is pasted on the falling tower of Barad-dûr in LOTR 3…

 

[Herbspiceguy]

Gaming journalism at it's finest:

MS didn't say it "needs games like Hi-Fi Rush", the literal quote: "“We need smaller games that give us prestige and awards,”

To take things into context: Hi-Fi Rush had a 5 year development time with a large, professional team behind it, based on https://www.mobygames.com/game/198497/hi-fi-rush/credits/windows/ and the ending credits
Rough estimates:

• Tango Gameworks: 200+
• Titmouse (animation studio): 150+
• Lemon Sky Studio (character art): 50

Take those employees of just just Tango alone: 200 x $100K x 5 years = $100 million
Average salaries based on https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Zenimax-Media/salaries

Add to that the involved ZeniMax teams (QA, PR, etc.), and I wonder if Hi-Fi Rush can actually be considered a small game. Also, wouldn't the total production cost be closer to AAA? In any case not to the extent that it should be compared to the other "small single-player games" that are mentioned in the article: Balatro, Manor Lords and Hades II.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

As much as I'd like to see them stick around since competition keeps things spicy, they aren't even trying at this point.

Their reputation is rock bottom, not only are they not pushing out good games, they're not marketing upcoming titles (see Hellblade 2 releasing in 2 weeks!) and they've sacked off one of their better studios.

Morale over there is probably shit and most developers are probably shitting themselves wondering if they'll have a job in the coming months.

Phil Spencer - Fuck you and your leadership team for being incompetent wankers.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Gaming journalism at it's finest:

MS didn't say it "needs games like Hi-Fi Rush", the literal quote: "“We need smaller games that give us prestige and awards,”

Hi-Fi Rush is the only XBOX game that fits the bill, though. By no means it's AAA, it has been received very well and is also the type of "different game" in the MS portfolio.

Same as Sony with Astrobot, The Last Guardian, or Gravity Rush, they need some "minor" titles that help the perception of making games out of the Forza-Halo-Gears trio.

 

[nush]

There's nothing wrong with the quote.

They want smaller titles than Hi Fi Rush, which was not a small title. They're talking about games built by 50 people and under.

Exactly, for "Smaller" read: Cheaper.

 

[SenkiDala]

The outrage after the closure of Tango Gameworks is surprising me (well not that much since it belongs to Microsoft / so it is another good reason to shit on them).

First of all I'm a fan of Mikami, RE is in my top 3 series and I played all of them on day one.

The Evil Within was imo an average game, at best, bland in most parts.
TEW 2 was worst, it looked like a bad independent game.
Ghostwire Tokyo was also VERY bland and pretty bad.
HiFi Rush was good but people didn't play it... I mean it isn't on playstation.

So basicaly all of those games sold bad, had quite bad reviews (outside of HiFi Rush) and didn't make any money. MS close them "oh no I loved those games, well I didn't buy any of them, but... ah no no I bought EW2 at 5$ on sale !!! Fuck MS ! What happened?"

I dunno... Hypocritical is the word that comes to my mind.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

The outrage after the closure of Tango Gameworks is surprising me (well not that much since it belongs to Microsoft / so it is another good reason to shit on them).

First of all I'm a fan of Mikami, RE is in my top 3 series and I played all of them on day one.

The Evil Within was imo an average game, at best, bland in most parts.
TEW 2 was worst, it looked like a bad independent game.
Ghostwire Tokyo was also VERY bland and pretty bad.
HiFi Rush was good but people didn't play it... I mean it isn't on playstation.

So basicaly all of those games sold bad, had quite bad reviews (outside of HiFi Rush) and didn't make any money. MS close them "oh no I loved those games, well I didn't buy any of them, but... ah no no I bought EW2 at 5$ on sale !!! Fuck MS ! What happened?"

I dunno... Hypocritical is the word that comes to my mind.

 

[Sethbacca]

Man, I don't know why anybody would continue to invest in this ecosystem with how badly they mismanaged the last two gens (and continue to fuck up like this exact situation). What a clusterfuck.

 

[Sneakysnake]

Fiduciary duty.

IE the death of creativity and long term thinking.

They are putting the douche in fiduciary

 

[Radical_3d]

If memory serves, the man in charge of Xbox when Microsoft turned down Destiny, thus beginning the Bungie divorce, was an EA executive back when Microsoft was shopping the OG Xbox around - and he thought the Xbox wasn't a good idea. This was, of course, Don Mattrick. And that's kind of Microsoft's whole problem: once they get an air of success in one of their little divisions, the suites move in and "Microsoft" the shit out of it. For all the money they spend, it really does seem that Spencer's Xbox legitimately can't tell a good game - like a Halo Helldivers-esque title they passed on - from the trash - like Halo Infinite and Redfall. The gamers - people like House, Cerny or Yoshida - seem to be long gone.

Yeah but when the time for fixing this came the great idea was: let’s be Netflix! That was more damaging than everything Mattrick did. Everyone could see the numbers didn’t add up but they went on with their plan. And here we are… 22M Xbox which half would be Series S versus 50 million PS5. So outselling 5:1 if we only compare the high end Series X.

 

[SenkiDala]

 

[Kiya's Guard]

Did anyone doubt they were going to kill studio left and right after the ABK acquisition? I'm quite sure this won't be the last news in this or next year

 

[FunkMiller]

The outrage after the closure of Tango Gameworks is surprising me (well not that much since it belongs to Microsoft / so it is another good reason to shit on them).

First of all I'm a fan of Mikami, RE is in my top 3 series and I played all of them on day one.

The Evil Within was imo an average game, at best, bland in most parts.
TEW 2 was worst, it looked like a bad independent game.
Ghostwire Tokyo was also VERY bland and pretty bad.
HiFi Rush was good but people didn't play it... I mean it isn't on playstation.

So basicaly all of those games sold bad, had quite bad reviews (outside of HiFi Rush) and didn't make any money. MS close them "oh no I loved those games, well I didn't buy any of them, but... ah no no I bought EW2 at 5$ on sale !!! Fuck MS ! What happened?"

I dunno... Hypocritical is the word that comes to my mind.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

This is why I do not trust MS.

I would like a show of hands of people who think it was still a great idea for MS to buy Bethesda and Activision.

Hope you guys are happy... you chose a blind man to fly your plane.

 

[Topher]

The outrage after the closure of Tango Gameworks is surprising me (well not that much since it belongs to Microsoft / so it is another good reason to shit on them).

First of all I'm a fan of Mikami, RE is in my top 3 series and I played all of them on day one.

The Evil Within was imo an average game, at best, bland in most parts.
TEW 2 was worst, it looked like a bad independent game.
Ghostwire Tokyo was also VERY bland and pretty bad.
HiFi Rush was good but people didn't play it... I mean it isn't on playstation.

So basicaly all of those games sold bad, had quite bad reviews (outside of HiFi Rush) and didn't make any money. MS close them "oh no I loved those games, well I didn't buy any of them, but... ah no no I bought EW2 at 5$ on sale !!! Fuck MS ! What happened?"

I dunno... Hypocritical is the word that comes to my mind.

 

[Roman Empire]

You can't make decisions like closing a studio then ask for more games like the ones released by said studio you just closed. It is madness.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

You can't make decisions like closing a studio then ask for more games like the ones released by said studio you just closed. It is madness.

Obviously, you have not met Microsoft.

We are talking about a company that would buy a multiplatform publisher so that it would make timed exclusives for them....At 10-100x what it would have cost to outright just pay for a timed exclusive...

Think about that.

 

[Humdinger]

I think you have to forgive Phil the position he inherited.

He didn't inherit quality development studios. [....]

But before Phil became head honcho at Xbox, wasn't he in a leadership position in the games division? I can't keep all the corporate titles straight, but afaik, he was in upper management over the Xbox Games division for many years, prior to becoming head of Xbox.

I am questioning your statement that we should "forgive Phil the position he inherited." I think Phil helped to create the position he inherited.

 

[bitbydeath]

No one else could have done a better job given the options were kill off xbox as a brand or drastically change the business model so that the Microsoft board has interest in it.

He only got financial backing because he promised them he could turn Xbox into Netflix.

Netflix has a 262 billion dollar market cap and they captured that in very little time. That's what Phil was promising. Short of that, Xbox was getting the plug pulled.

You can see it in the e-mails between Nadella, Hood, and Spencer. That the board is constantly on his ass and they've finally had enough, hence the 3rd party push.

A Netflix push was never going to work without streaming being in place, the upfront hardware requirements are a deal breaker. Netflix was able to get so much adoption because it didn't require any special hardware. Maybe if he was able to get xCloud to work earlier it would have been different, but I don't think the bandwidth and tech are there yet, though they're getting close.

Counterpoint :

Phil’s an incompetent buffoon who was only in it for the money. He’s proven on numerous occasions to know nothing about gaming, Mattrick was an escape goat and could have done a far better job if he stayed on. He delivered the best games Xbox One had to offer, and it only all fell apart when Phil took over.

 

[Fredrik]

The thing you guys haven't realised:

Matt Booty, Phil Spencer... These people do not give a flying fuck about winning the console war, making good games, even really selling hardware or software

They have cared about making their bonuses. Which have been tied to sub growth for a long time now. But seems like that's changed and it may be profit and revenue again

So the best way for them to do that is cut all the excess fat and allow COD to generate profit

They’ve been talking about how hardware don’t matter and how software sales don’t really matter either, monthly active users is the only metric worth looking at.

Everything they have now is built for a future where nothing is tied to a specific hardware and where users are paying a subscription fee to access a library of games. Small studios was there as bonus filling. Big studios was there to grow the service.

Problem is, Gamepass numbers aren’t growing anymore, when the cheap deals disappeared people (including myself) dropped the service. Paying $17/month isn’t cheap, it’s not the best deal in gaming, especially if they no longer get heavy hitters on the service.

So, now software sales matters. And they don’t have that. So they try to get that through PS5 and NSW. And when spreading out they’re also killing their own non-subscription platform. Because why have a Xbox and a subscription if you can get both PS and Xbox games on PS5? And most new subscribers come through the console, which is dying. And with a dying platform without exclusives they lose loyal long time customers, the brand is damaged. And they now get bad PR on social from the influencers they probably paid to get good PR from. Etc etc etc

They won’t exit gaming, as you say they rake in tons of cash through CoD, and Candy Crush, Minecraft, maybe Diablo idk. But if they don’t have a historically impressive summer showcase and detail their plan forward in a crystal clear way I think they’re done as any type of platform holder, goes for console, handheld, PC, mobile, even cloud. Nobody will take anything they say seriously. We’ve heard it all before, ended up as empty promises or lies.

 

[Bond007]

Lying is what the do.
Its just more apparent now

 

[Deerock71]

Phil rn:

 

[Fake]

WTF is going on inside that company?

Are they remaking 'The Office' tv series?

 

[MadchesterManc]

Counterpoint :

Phil’s an incompetent buffoon who was only in it for the money. He’s proven on numerous occasions to know nothing about gaming, Mattrick was an escape goat and could have done a far better job if he stayed on. He delivered the best games Xbox One had to offer, and it only all fell apart when Phil took over.

Folk always try and thread current Xbox woes back to Don Mattrick, but Phil has done what he wanted (especially regarding Gamepass) while spending billions on acquisitions that his predecessors could only ever dream of. They're in this predicament because of Phil. Phil has failed.

 

[ZehDon]

Yeah but when the time for fixing this came the great idea was: let’s be Netflix! That was more damaging than everything Mattrick did. Everyone could see the numbers didn’t add up but they went on with their plan. And here we are… 22M Xbox which half would be Series S versus 50 million PS5. So outselling 5:1 if we only compare the high end Series X.

Er... that's not really how that works. Using flawed comparisons to skew the ratio doesn't really achieve anything. 2.5:1 is about where Microsoft landed last generation as best as anyone can figure it - so, why try and push a 5:1 narrative that doesn't actually track?

But anyway, comparing Game Pass to the Xbone, it's DRM, and the bloodbath that followed? Nah. The Xbone took Microsoft from equal first to game over in less than thirty days. The industry hasn't seen anything like that before or since. Xbox are arguably still recovering from that kind of damage. Game Pass is Microsoft trying to pivot the same way Nintendo did after they lost the home console space. Where Microsoft is falling down is in delivering titles to actually push subscriptions. They need to achieve critical mass to make the whole thing viable, and they'd be achieving that if they actually released games people wanted to play, instead of trash like Halo Infinite and Redfall, or titles that need work like Forza Motorsport and Starfield. Microsoft had the hardware, the services, and the underdog PR heading into this generation - and they've squandered basically all of it by failing to do the one thing that matters: make great games.

 

[Efren is G.O.A.T.]

That's the funniest shit I have seen all year! Thanks for this.

 

[gothmog]

All message cohesion has completely broken down.

In my experience that indicates a break down in the chain of command, and shows that a company is likely at war with itself.

Feels like this is going to get much, much worse.

It's going to be entertaining for sure watching it burn for a while.