ChuckeRearmed
Member
They need to add that creatives are fishing for art, styles and ideas of other people.
Last edited:
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
[The Verge] Microsoft is bringing AI characters to Xbox
- Thread starter Kurotri
- Start date
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Now if the creative types were smart, they'd let AI do all the fishing at light speed 24/7, while sitting back to verify and tweak stuff so it's even better.
I totally get it that creative types have an ego and want to dream the dream, but sometimes in life it's better to allow bits and bytes to do the grunt work and then take over after.
semiconscious
Member
wait a minute - is the implication here that all this time phil spencer's actually been a real person?...
Goalus
Member
That would be bad.
The judgement games did a bit of that. Obviously less relevant if the setting is old world or fantasy tho, where you would need to be speaking to people. But yeah, the limited dialogue of existing games means it kinda has to be how it has been. Unlimited dialogue you may just speak to a random and ask if they know where the tavern is, if they know they may then try to give you directions. You get there and ask the barmaid if they know a Jerry, she directs you to a guy sat at the back with a red hat. Jerry was the objective with planned narrative beats. All the interactions with the barmaid and random people would be 100% generative. It’ll be a very different way of playing.
At the end of the day tho, we have all the big glowy question-marks because people are kinda dumb and need handholding…so I don’t see such things entirely going away.
Carmen Winstead
Member
This is news?
Didn't AI already develop all MS exclusives for the last 15 years?
Didn't AI already develop all MS exclusives for the last 15 years?
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Can A.I. circumvent MS's incompetence at game development? If so. The Future is brighter than ever.
CitizenKratos
Member
This is one of the next gaming innovations I’m patiently waiting for. AI like this can’t write story in a capable way but the interactivity will likely create game ideas not yet possible.
LordBlodgett
Member
I love this idea. I do think AI could democratize some of the process by making development cheaper and easier, which in turn helps small teams. Hopefully the AI is decent though. I have a feeling Microsoft or Bing AI is going to continue to become more lame by the day, as they purposely try to make it inoffensive. I used to create machine learning models for crypto trading pattern recognition, and good data in = good data out. Machine learning was basically the AI precursor, it hasn't changed much other than the power. Maybe twitter's new AI will be useful. IT would be even more interesting if an AI studied games, literature, and movies from the last couple hundred years with no filters.
Matsuchezz
Member
Yup trainned on Phil Spencer decisions making and the marketing guy the fat one.
3liteDragon
Member
The beginning of the end.
MarkMe2525
Member
Not to be funny, but I find AI useful in finding older content on the internet.
Clintizzle
Lord of Edge.
Bring on AI generated Big Tiddy Goth Moms
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Interesting. I’ll have to give it a try!
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This was amazing lol
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
As the tools, industry, access and ease of use with AI game based systems proliferates so to will its creative vs commercial uses emerge. It will be turbulent for awhile as jobs and use cases shift but overall I think it will enable or creative talent and less technical requirements overall.
Given the success of latest versions ChatGPT and Dall-e 3 for every shovelware AI game we'll see more progress for solo, indies and A or AA studio type output. The lines will also blur between technical, scale or visual output e.g. one person could build Cyberpunk city, NPCs etc.
I'm all for it. Talent is talent, a cool character or gameplay idea xan come from anyone anywhere, opening the tools, systems and access via AI developments is all going by how it is used or combined case by case, game by game.
Given the success of latest versions ChatGPT and Dall-e 3 for every shovelware AI game we'll see more progress for solo, indies and A or AA studio type output. The lines will also blur between technical, scale or visual output e.g. one person could build Cyberpunk city, NPCs etc.
I'm all for it. Talent is talent, a cool character or gameplay idea xan come from anyone anywhere, opening the tools, systems and access via AI developments is all going by how it is used or combined case by case, game by game.
Comandr
Member
I don't see how anyone could be against this. There are like 50 million quests and random bits of dialog in a game like oblivion or skyrim that a huge number of people probably never hear or experience. Spending the time, money, energy, and effort to write the quests and get the same three actors to talk in a different voice and do a line and then retake and blah blah blah.
FF16 gets a lot of defenders rushing to arms about the quality of the side quests - saying they don't need to be high quality or very interesting because they're just side quests and most people won't do them and the npcs look and act and sound lame anyway and who cares.
But what if that didn't have to be that way? Train an AI on the knowledge set and lore of the world, and let them churn out quest lines, dialog, etc. We have already written off the works of actual human writers in this scenario, so what's the actual harm? How much worse could it be than the shit tier writing and conversation we have NOW?
This is like getting mad at a baker because he uses a stand mixer to knead dough. Well the baker isn't making the bread, the machine is. Well.. No. The baker still has full creative control of the process, he's just using modern tools to do the hard part. Where's the harm in that? Is the bread worse because - To paraphrase a particularly funny quote.
Why do people think that if AI is involved, that somehow means humans will no longer be involved in any part of the creative process? These things aren't mutually exclusive. There will still be a team of writers checking and tweaking and embellishing on stories and ideas.
Here's some homework for ya. Ask chatGPT to write an original short story based on a property that you like. I guarantee it will shoot out some interesting ideas. Sure, some things will probably need to be edited for consistency, but it's a great jumping off point. Being able to instantly generate an infinite number of variables of a story or scenario is essentially the cure to writer's block. I see no negatives here. I don't even necessarily see chatGPT taking writers' jobs. Again, it's not something to replace people, it is a new tool to be used by said writers.
Game director says I need scripts and scenarios for 10 sidequests in Whiterun by the end of the week. Writing team starts brainstorming. Putting crap in a generative program like chatGPT coming up with scenarios - wolf attacks, missing locket, children acting strangely. Boom. Done. We've taken rough ideas and turned them into full fledged quests in a matter of hours that would have previously taken ten times as long to come up with the idea, write out and edit and fact check and so on. Now instead of spending tons of time coming up with ideas, they can spend that time refining the ideas to make them better.
FF16 gets a lot of defenders rushing to arms about the quality of the side quests - saying they don't need to be high quality or very interesting because they're just side quests and most people won't do them and the npcs look and act and sound lame anyway and who cares.
But what if that didn't have to be that way? Train an AI on the knowledge set and lore of the world, and let them churn out quest lines, dialog, etc. We have already written off the works of actual human writers in this scenario, so what's the actual harm? How much worse could it be than the shit tier writing and conversation we have NOW?
This is like getting mad at a baker because he uses a stand mixer to knead dough. Well the baker isn't making the bread, the machine is. Well.. No. The baker still has full creative control of the process, he's just using modern tools to do the hard part. Where's the harm in that? Is the bread worse because - To paraphrase a particularly funny quote.
No. It's the same bread, being made by a person. The baker is in full control. He is just foisting off the grunt work to the machine, and he will make adjustments to the final product after the fact.
Why do people think that if AI is involved, that somehow means humans will no longer be involved in any part of the creative process? These things aren't mutually exclusive. There will still be a team of writers checking and tweaking and embellishing on stories and ideas.
Here's some homework for ya. Ask chatGPT to write an original short story based on a property that you like. I guarantee it will shoot out some interesting ideas. Sure, some things will probably need to be edited for consistency, but it's a great jumping off point. Being able to instantly generate an infinite number of variables of a story or scenario is essentially the cure to writer's block. I see no negatives here. I don't even necessarily see chatGPT taking writers' jobs. Again, it's not something to replace people, it is a new tool to be used by said writers.
Game director says I need scripts and scenarios for 10 sidequests in Whiterun by the end of the week. Writing team starts brainstorming. Putting crap in a generative program like chatGPT coming up with scenarios - wolf attacks, missing locket, children acting strangely. Boom. Done. We've taken rough ideas and turned them into full fledged quests in a matter of hours that would have previously taken ten times as long to come up with the idea, write out and edit and fact check and so on. Now instead of spending tons of time coming up with ideas, they can spend that time refining the ideas to make them better.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
In Bethesda games, think of all the lore people at head office wrote in all the ES books lying around and in all the Fallout audio logs and terminals. I dont think I read one for fun.
For those of you who never played these games, there's so much random books and shit with content. And almost all of it is just for history. They arent deep or anything, but it sure takes time to write this junk. And since they want to make it linked together you get Book I, Book II, Book III like a series. They can outsource all this to AI.
Last edited:
Comandr
Member
What I'm really excited for in an AI powered future is the radical expansion of NPC interactions. I want procedurally generated personalities and interactions.
Let's do a quick case study of good ol Braith.
For general conversation, she has a grand total of three lines of dialogue when you talk to her.
"Boys, girls, dogs, elders - there's nobody I won't fight!"
"What're you lookin' at? I'm not afraid of you, ya know. Even if you are my elder."
"I don't fight Lars no more, if that's what you're worried about."
She is the child of a mercenary father, and a mother that ignores her. Her character is that of a bully to Lars Battle-Born. She bullies him because she secretly likes him, but doesn't know how else to express herself to him. There is a single quest involving her where you yourself bully her into leaving Lars alone. She attempts to open up to her parents about her feelings towards Lars, but they both shrug off the responsibility onto the other parent.
She never mentions anything that happens in town. She doesn't talk about what she did that day, she doesn't talk about the scary loud voice that came from the mountain, she doesn't talk about the really good deal on enchanted iron daggers that Ulfberth War-Bear is having down at Warmaiden's after they got a huuuuuge surplus of them suddenly.
Why? Why is this character so one dimensional? Well, there's a few reasons.
1) Writing and acting take time and resources, and to a minor extent- storage. Audio and dialog related to her have to be stored somewhere, and that storage needs to be spent on literally the rest of the game.
2) As a product of its time, finding a way to code in the ability for NPCs to react to truly unique behaviors would have been a monumental task. I think that's still a big undertaking today.
3) It's good enough as it is. Braith is a very minor character, if not a memorable one. She doesn't need to have more time and resources spent on her to further develop her character when she is fleshed out enough for the purpose she serves. A random NPC that lives in this town that's not just a cardboard cut out guard or something.
But what if we didn't have to have those restrictions. What if we could turn a lot of this over to AI. AI reacting to particular stimuli and commenting on it. Recent events, what the player is wearing, places they've been. The court wizard was in town the other day and said he got some dumb adventurer to get a stone tablet for him. I bet that was you.
The triggers could operate on simple progress flags, with NPCs speaking new lines generated from training on models of the actual actors. Imagine being able to have actual conversations with NPCs with natural speech. What if, having been ignored by both her parents, Braith could turn to you the player for advice. You know the situation better than anyone probably. And you can verbally speak to Braith in natural language and give her advice one way or another, or just tell her to go to hell if you want - and she actually responds to that and her interactions - her engagements are now meaningfully altered.
We've gone from a handful of canned responses with some rando character to now a meaningful interaction with an NPC we have come to know and have an actual conversation with. That could have a profoundly powerful impact on the player and how they engage with the world. Skyrim 2 now has nearly infinite replayability outside of hand crafted main/side quests and they didn't have to program hardly any of it. It's all just... natural responses supported by reactive, immersive AI.
This has the knock on benefit of creating truly unique experiences for players, and that gets people talking. I might tell my buddy about how I sat down with Braith and gave her advice on how to talk to Lars instead of just being an asshole to him all the time, and my buddy told her to suck start a shotgun. Our experiences then with this NPC spiraled in completely different directions, and it's interesting to discuss those differences.
Let's do a quick case study of good ol Braith.
For general conversation, she has a grand total of three lines of dialogue when you talk to her.
"Boys, girls, dogs, elders - there's nobody I won't fight!"
"What're you lookin' at? I'm not afraid of you, ya know. Even if you are my elder."
"I don't fight Lars no more, if that's what you're worried about."
She is the child of a mercenary father, and a mother that ignores her. Her character is that of a bully to Lars Battle-Born. She bullies him because she secretly likes him, but doesn't know how else to express herself to him. There is a single quest involving her where you yourself bully her into leaving Lars alone. She attempts to open up to her parents about her feelings towards Lars, but they both shrug off the responsibility onto the other parent.
She never mentions anything that happens in town. She doesn't talk about what she did that day, she doesn't talk about the scary loud voice that came from the mountain, she doesn't talk about the really good deal on enchanted iron daggers that Ulfberth War-Bear is having down at Warmaiden's after they got a huuuuuge surplus of them suddenly.
Why? Why is this character so one dimensional? Well, there's a few reasons.
1) Writing and acting take time and resources, and to a minor extent- storage. Audio and dialog related to her have to be stored somewhere, and that storage needs to be spent on literally the rest of the game.
2) As a product of its time, finding a way to code in the ability for NPCs to react to truly unique behaviors would have been a monumental task. I think that's still a big undertaking today.
3) It's good enough as it is. Braith is a very minor character, if not a memorable one. She doesn't need to have more time and resources spent on her to further develop her character when she is fleshed out enough for the purpose she serves. A random NPC that lives in this town that's not just a cardboard cut out guard or something.
But what if we didn't have to have those restrictions. What if we could turn a lot of this over to AI. AI reacting to particular stimuli and commenting on it. Recent events, what the player is wearing, places they've been. The court wizard was in town the other day and said he got some dumb adventurer to get a stone tablet for him. I bet that was you.
The triggers could operate on simple progress flags, with NPCs speaking new lines generated from training on models of the actual actors. Imagine being able to have actual conversations with NPCs with natural speech. What if, having been ignored by both her parents, Braith could turn to you the player for advice. You know the situation better than anyone probably. And you can verbally speak to Braith in natural language and give her advice one way or another, or just tell her to go to hell if you want - and she actually responds to that and her interactions - her engagements are now meaningfully altered.
We've gone from a handful of canned responses with some rando character to now a meaningful interaction with an NPC we have come to know and have an actual conversation with. That could have a profoundly powerful impact on the player and how they engage with the world. Skyrim 2 now has nearly infinite replayability outside of hand crafted main/side quests and they didn't have to program hardly any of it. It's all just... natural responses supported by reactive, immersive AI.
This has the knock on benefit of creating truly unique experiences for players, and that gets people talking. I might tell my buddy about how I sat down with Braith and gave her advice on how to talk to Lars instead of just being an asshole to him all the time, and my buddy told her to suck start a shotgun. Our experiences then with this NPC spiraled in completely different directions, and it's interesting to discuss those differences.
Last edited:
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Anyone who's used AI professionally will know that you don't just say "computer, write me an ad campaign" and then send the unchecked result to your client in an email titled "new Spring/summer campaign - money please"
Even the AI generated art thread here shows that with some experimentation unbelievably good stuff is possible. People experimenting with the same system the first few times can also get some underwhelming results that do not represent what they were after initially at all.
So, I think there's plenty of opportunity for games to really benefit from this, as long as the humans involved know what their game needs from the AI.
Even the AI generated art thread here shows that with some experimentation unbelievably good stuff is possible. People experimenting with the same system the first few times can also get some underwhelming results that do not represent what they were after initially at all.
So, I think there's plenty of opportunity for games to really benefit from this, as long as the humans involved know what their game needs from the AI.
Bry0
Member
IImagine Starfield but even the story and characters are AI generated. Sounds great! Unlimited content! 
But seriously I think generative ai could do amazing things for gaming. My concern is moreso how it will be used. I would expect most of it will be towards things that encourage “player retention” and monetization, and not necessarily to create the highest quality experience. I hope I am wrong but publishers just want money. They think of you as a wallet to crack open. I’ve seen it first hand and that sentiment is not uncommon.
In the hands of the right devs with enough care, you could create massive responsive and emergent gaming experiences that could really blow you away though. Simultaneously you may be less hamstrung by budget and manpower too, which would be amazing for smaller teams. I’m sure we will get some of both like we do now between some really amazing releases the last few years amongst an equal or larger amount of cynical gaas games and aggressive (manipulative) monetization.
But seriously I think generative ai could do amazing things for gaming. My concern is moreso how it will be used. I would expect most of it will be towards things that encourage “player retention” and monetization, and not necessarily to create the highest quality experience. I hope I am wrong but publishers just want money. They think of you as a wallet to crack open. I’ve seen it first hand and that sentiment is not uncommon.
In the hands of the right devs with enough care, you could create massive responsive and emergent gaming experiences that could really blow you away though. Simultaneously you may be less hamstrung by budget and manpower too, which would be amazing for smaller teams. I’m sure we will get some of both like we do now between some really amazing releases the last few years amongst an equal or larger amount of cynical gaas games and aggressive (manipulative) monetization.
Last edited:
ShadowkillXNA
Member
Perfect fit for their gamepass vision. Synergy!Ai characters and StoryYes Xbox, yes thats just what you need, even more fucking garbage on your platforms
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
Bleak as fuck.AI-built cloud-powered games on a rental subscription service.
Reading is hard, eh?
This is being prepped as part of Xbox dev tools, available to all developers.
Knightime_X
Member
You have no idea what is in store.
can’t say I’m really excited for the proliferation of AI created content…
It's going to be incredible.
chlorate
Member
AI is really good at writing more immersive/deep barks for NPCs than just “Patrolling the Mojave makes you wish for a nuclear winter” for the 37th time. It can make unique speech patterns and dialogue for each faceless NCR grunt depending on their intelligence and charisma, as well as the player’s appearance, reputation, and build- and it can do all this much more efficiently than a team of human writers can.
Thirty7ven
Banned
For you.
Elder Legend
Banned
Operations66
Member
Hopefully will create a strong niche for studios that remaster old good games for modern consoles, like Nightdive. The future will be the past for gamers like me. Death to AI! Long live real intelligence!
Last edited:
PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
They al ready have one....he is called phil spencer...relax its a joke
Raven77
Member
Lots of people laugh reacting to my post above. Curious (genuinely) what is funny about it.
ResilientBanana
Member
Could you imagine TES6 having true AI behaviors? Not to mention using the mic to have conversations with them?
Magic Carpet
Member
Finally every quest can be full of current pop culture refrences and memes, that change and update per person.
No more of that 'you had to be there' to understand the joke.
No more of that 'you had to be there' to understand the joke.
Gojiira
Member
To quote George Lucas ‘It’s like poetry’
Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
I don't think MS has had great characters for awhile, so this might actually be an improvement. Which is sad.
I wish Xbox games got the same level of story and production as some other games.
I wish Xbox games got the same level of story and production as some other games.
Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
Kuranghi
Member
AI-built cloud-powered games on a rental subscription service.
It took me a good few times of seeing this to notice it wasn't his hand which is quite embarrassing really
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Ai assisted in the making of this GIF
Disco Dave
Member
A.I can't do any worse...
