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The Last 3 Hours of Bioshock Infinite Are Gaming At Its Best (Unmarked Spoilers)
- Thread starter Kevin Shields
- Start date
Kevin Shields
Member
Yea of all the themes it hit home with me for me, racism and nationalism were not the ones I think of... I think its fine that it turned more metaphysical toward the end, but they should have better tied up the vox nationalistic and racist themes before moving on. They made it French Recolution mixed with American history and ended up with a hodge lodge of stuff that didn't always connect. They should have focused more on nationalistic and developed it much more. Good points.
NathanDiego
Member
Yes,one of my GOAT,love this game,especially the last hours
Yeah the ending disapointed me because I wanted to see some more concrete conclusions to all the other stories and characters they'd set up and also to see them given more depth. I really loved parts of the game like Columbia as a setting and a lot of the crazy locations and places you visit and explore but I just wish a lot of stuff were far more fleshed out and tied together in a more interesting manner.
Kevin Shields
Member
How can you peeps not find Undertowing people off of ledges immensely satisfying?
Everyone saying story is nonsensical, can you explain? Is it nonsensical because world hopping, time traveling is nonsensical or did you find the logical ununderstandable? Recent show Frequency last year had the same basic logic with creating and cutting off branches and I feel like that's par for the course in tons of these time traveling stories. Of course there is the deepest movie ever. Back to the Future.
This game was a blast to play. I remember it far more fondly than most here on GAF do these days. I remember people loving it at the time, too.
And best of all, I loved the collective ride we all went on together, especially after finishing the game and trying to make sense of it all.
Remember THIS thread?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=533205
So good.
And best of all, I loved the collective ride we all went on together, especially after finishing the game and trying to make sense of it all.
Remember THIS thread?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=533205
So good.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Ghost boss is the worst boss in the last ten years of gaming.
Time travel stories only work if they have consistent rules and pay attention to their own internal logic.
In Bioshock Infinite, Booker and Elizabeth go to the Gunsmith's shop and upon realizing that it doesn't have the tools they need, they jump to another timeline where they can get the tools they need. The timeline swap is treated in a utilitarian fashion: go to timeline that has stuff we need, get stuff we need.
But then they get swept up in other events, which is, in itself, fine. The fun of visiting alternate timeline is that they are alternate, so you want to see how shit gets screwed up.
Here's the problem though, Booker, Elizabeth, and seemingly the game itself, forget that they jumped timelines. They make no attempt to return to their original timeline, and at one point, even contemplate leaving Columbia entirely, despite, again, not being in their original world. Why do characters react to Booker based on deals made in the original timeline when this timeline's Booker is dead? Where is this timeline's Elizabeth, etc. etc. etc.
It's sloppy and makes no sense. It's one of the many things that the game just never closed the loop on, which is just narratively unsatisfying. Its another glaring indication that the game originally had a more sprawling story and scope and that things were hacked off to be able to ship it.
Kevin Shields
Member
Yea I understand infinite Elizabeth's, but was her goal to stop as much Evil as possible. Why not live out her life in a dead Comstock timeline with Booker? I guess you could say she also didn't want her god like power and killing off Constick would mean she would never have any time traveling power and thus be free of the burden. I'm probably not explaining my question well because the question of being conscience of other selves is kind of impossible and hard to wrap your mind around.
Funyarinpa
Member
First hour is up there as one of the best sequences in gaming.
The last few hours? Haha nooo. It's a fun romp if you have no engagement and the brief return to Rapture was amazing, but not getting to fight the Songbird and that abysmal final fight really hurt all that. It also hammers home, more than anything else, how Infinite doesn't dare to go deep on any subject matter it tries to tackle.
It simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny. I say this as someone who played the game twice in full in two weeks.
It's a spectacle, it's entertaining, some really fun and clever twists are in there, but the story has significant plot holes and underutilized facets (former: one Booker refusing to do the baptism choice somehow ends all Comstocks- latter: THE FUCKING SONGBIRD, THE VIGORS, COLUMBIA'S HISTORY, THOSE EXPOSED HEART GUYS)
The last few hours? Haha nooo. It's a fun romp if you have no engagement and the brief return to Rapture was amazing, but not getting to fight the Songbird and that abysmal final fight really hurt all that. It also hammers home, more than anything else, how Infinite doesn't dare to go deep on any subject matter it tries to tackle.
It simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny. I say this as someone who played the game twice in full in two weeks.
It's a spectacle, it's entertaining, some really fun and clever twists are in there, but the story has significant plot holes and underutilized facets (former: one Booker refusing to do the baptism choice somehow ends all Comstocks- latter: THE FUCKING SONGBIRD, THE VIGORS, COLUMBIA'S HISTORY, THOSE EXPOSED HEART GUYS)
Rain City Gamer
Member
I am with you OP. I absolutely loved Bioshock Infinite, especially the ending. Videogame Story telling at it's best if you ask me. One of the few games I finished and immediately started up another play through.
Wish they would bring the Bioshock Collection to PSVR.
Wish they would bring the Bioshock Collection to PSVR.
Kevin Shields
Member
Wow! You mentioned the one question I forgot I had. Why in the hell would Booker and Elizabeth think Daisy would honor her deal for guns in a different timeline? She ended up not honoring it and trying to kill the second Boomer if I remember. So isn't the only hole that how could Elizabeth who reads a lot of books be so stupid to let Booker try to honor a deal in an alternate timeline?
As far as not returning to original timeline, I guess they didn't feel the need to because only variables changed and nothing too horrific happened. It's like they would just a hop a train when they figured they needed to move. I didn't feel it was inconsistent (besides the daisy point which I didn't understand) and allowed for some fun crap like seeing Booker poster
IdreamofHIME
Member
I always felt it was a tedious slog that nearly ruins a great game.
purseowner
Member
Bioshock Infinite is my third favourite game of all time.
Its 'final boss' is the worst designed of all time. Tedious lazy crap.
Its 'final boss' is the worst designed of all time. Tedious lazy crap.
Garbage ass game, Bioshock 1 and 2 are stupendous in both gameplay and storytelling fronts. Bioshock Infinite seemed to toss all of that out of the window.
Random ghost chase? Weird tower defense final boss? Two weapons at a time? AWFUL STORYLINE
Like, I'm sorry but it was bad. Very strong start but about after the museum or when they introduce the "tears" it fell apart for me.
Random ghost chase? Weird tower defense final boss? Two weapons at a time? AWFUL STORYLINE
Like, I'm sorry but it was bad. Very strong start but about after the museum or when they introduce the "tears" it fell apart for me.
Razzmatazzer
Member
This, game is amazing
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Gameplay wasn't great and the treatment of the Vox Populi was problematic at best, but goddamn that ending was mind-bendingly glorious. Almost Grant Morrison level.
The greatest accomplishment the game makes is effortlessly blending the larger political themes into the deeply personal: Columbia as a literal monument to Booker's/Americas sins; the legacy the US leaves its children. Really impressive on that front.
The greatest accomplishment the game makes is effortlessly blending the larger political themes into the deeply personal: Columbia as a literal monument to Booker's/Americas sins; the legacy the US leaves its children. Really impressive on that front.
Waddle Dee
Member
Good lord, no. Just... fucking no.
What a joke of a game.
God awful characters. Nonsensical plot if you try to bother thinking about it. Simple, unsatisfying gunplay. Elizabeth's powers aren't used in interesting ways. Songbird is just a drone strike. No consequence for death. A looting system that's out of place. Too many of your powers are just "push shit out of the way" and little else. Weapon upgrades are pointless. Tons of forced walking segments. Pretentious vibes throughout.
No. Fuck that game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdNhwb7iuI4
Matthewmatosis' video about this game really brings to light just how flawed it is.
The love for this game comes of as little else than people who've led themselves to believe that gaming is a lesser medium than movies or literature and use pretentious titles like Infinite as examples of gaming being "real art" or some shit. I can't fathom how anyone could like Bioshock Infinite for any real genuine reason. It's no different than shit like The Order 1886 or a David Cage game. It's a game that pretends it has something to say, when in reality it's just an illusion.
What a joke of a game.
God awful characters. Nonsensical plot if you try to bother thinking about it. Simple, unsatisfying gunplay. Elizabeth's powers aren't used in interesting ways. Songbird is just a drone strike. No consequence for death. A looting system that's out of place. Too many of your powers are just "push shit out of the way" and little else. Weapon upgrades are pointless. Tons of forced walking segments. Pretentious vibes throughout.
No. Fuck that game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdNhwb7iuI4
Matthewmatosis' video about this game really brings to light just how flawed it is.
The love for this game comes of as little else than people who've led themselves to believe that gaming is a lesser medium than movies or literature and use pretentious titles like Infinite as examples of gaming being "real art" or some shit. I can't fathom how anyone could like Bioshock Infinite for any real genuine reason. It's no different than shit like The Order 1886 or a David Cage game. It's a game that pretends it has something to say, when in reality it's just an illusion.
Yep, this video really hammers home how absolutely mediocre this game is. I really do wonder what the issues were in development because it feels like so many different games stapled together
Waddle Dee
Member
The final product looks so vastly different than all the previews led people to believe. I have to wonder if it was deliberate fuckery or if the devs genuinely had plans for something better but in the end just caved into making Bioshock 1 but worse.
Big time, the reveal trailer was really cool and I was so excited. Just... so utterly disappointed when I did play this garbage. I haven't even played the DLC yet because it was so disappointing.
Kevin Shields
Member
Just could watch 10 mins of video cause I had to go and will finish later but he seems to be nit picky. I had problems with the game but he's covering nitty gritty stuff so far.
For instance the choices not having an impact is one of his criticisms but I freaking loved that. It was with the Luteces and basically showed how stupid and meaningless your choice was which played into the larger fate theme. I thought his negative was a major positive. Maybe I didn't understand him correctly. Will watch the rest later. Also Elizabeth a.i. is also kind of nitpicky because I would say it's about as bothersome as last of us AI running in front of you and none of them are that big of a deal. Maybe that's just me though. Nothing has proven to why this game can "fuck off" and eat dogshit. Ha I'll keep watching though later!!
one game i'd die defending to my last blood curdling breath. yeah it it's not system shock, it's not what was "promised" at e3 years prior and i have qualms with the game myself. but an amazing shooter
i think the post credits scene hints that there is a timeline where liz and booker exist. free of comstock fuckery and whatnot, and i guess from there you could extrapolate liz knew what she was doing.
assuming Burial at Sea is a chronological "sequel" of sorts it kind of supports that not everything ended with liz's patricide
i think the post credits scene hints that there is a timeline where liz and booker exist. free of comstock fuckery and whatnot, and i guess from there you could extrapolate liz knew what she was doing.
assuming Burial at Sea is a chronological "sequel" of sorts it kind of supports that not everything ended with liz's patricide
FallenGrace
Member
Same. It's where it all fell apart for me. Loved the rest of it.
Give it a full watch later because I don't think Mathew is unfairly criticizing this game and supports his ideas pretty well. Other than lacking more hard hitting racism moments because this is a AAA title that is completely understandable.
As for the AI, if I remember correctly she was hyped up leading to release as being so amazingly well made. But instead of actually being well made, they took player functions and gave them to her and made her invincible. It's cheap and lame. Last of Us does the annoying invincibility as well, but doesn't take player functions and give them to Ellie for no reason other than justifying the AI purpose like in Bioshock. Instead Ellie is used more for puzzle circumstances which is fine.
Kevin Shields
Member
Yea I have noticed a lot of people pissed with how game turned out with initial reveal but I never pay attention to pre release stuff so that may be why some of the criticisms people make have completely gone over my head. If he does mention the race theme, then I'll certainly agree with him on that.
SunBroDave
Member
The ending is straight up where Bioshock Infinite falls apart
Chen Lin and the Revolution is imo where it all falls apart but it wasn't great to begin with.
Kevin Shields
Member
That's where I thought story got good! Even if convuluted, I hadn't ever hopped worlds in a game before.
Odd, I consider the ending to be the worst part of the game. Where a pretentious story goes into an even more nonsense territory. And it only gets worse with Burial at Sea.
Overall, Infinite lacks everything good about Shock games from a gameplay perspective and has an awful story. It's almost exactly what not to do with a Shock game.
Overall, Infinite lacks everything good about Shock games from a gameplay perspective and has an awful story. It's almost exactly what not to do with a Shock game.
Kevin Shields
Member
My original post I said after those fights. At least for me it took me 3 hours after those fights were done.
Recon Snarff
Neo Member
I completely agree. It seemed my overall impression of the game was in the minority 6 months after release. I recommend anyone that hasn't watched Adam Sessler's review to go watch on Youtube.
Prince of Space
Banned
No, that's where it all comes together.
Infinite's story is very flawed in some ways (particularly the way it handles the Vox Populi), but the finale remains amazingly well done; from tying Rapture into the overall narrative to subverting the notion of player choice in the story, making it a great philosophical counterpart to the original game.
Like, I wouldn't be surprised if the ending --starting with the destruction of Monument Island-- was one of the earliest sequences Levine and co. nailed down in the pre-production stage; it feels much more complete than many of the other story ideas in the game.
It edged it out for me but you can make the statement that it wasn't part of it
Frozenprince
Banned
Give enough how proudly they talked about having scrapped "five entire games" to hey what we got I'm inclined to believe their publishers had simply had enough and forced them to use whatever they had on hand to get the game out.
Bioshock infinite is to me, the textbook example of overscoping.
It doesn't even make sense within the narrative though... The other Elizabeth's kill the comstock before he is baptized and it somehow stays done? What?
Frozenprince
Banned
The problem with a time travel/multiverse story is that you need to have hard rules for how the traversal works. Otherwise you're stuck with just pure randomness that leads to infinite (heh) variables that don't interplay with one another and you're just left going "but wait why".
BadAss2961
Member
Finished this a couple weeks ago, wasn't feeling it much. Combat is alright but the game as a whole is very straightforward and doesn't switch things up much. Nothing really separates it from other average non-military shooter campaigns other than its AAA production.
About the last 3 hours or so... I don't usually mind waves of enemies, but I was just ready for the game to end at that point. Then the ending portion of the campaign overdoes things, putting you through the same rooms and areas multiple times over, beating you over the head with a story that's just not worth it.
Columbia sounds like a good idea coming off Rapture, but they failed to make the setting as immersive. It's not even close. Probably the game's biggest shortcoming as the setting and how it was executed is what ultimately made Bioshock 1 what it was imo.
"Elizabeth" is a great track though. Best thing that came out of Infinite.
About the last 3 hours or so... I don't usually mind waves of enemies, but I was just ready for the game to end at that point. Then the ending portion of the campaign overdoes things, putting you through the same rooms and areas multiple times over, beating you over the head with a story that's just not worth it.
Columbia sounds like a good idea coming off Rapture, but they failed to make the setting as immersive. It's not even close. Probably the game's biggest shortcoming as the setting and how it was executed is what ultimately made Bioshock 1 what it was imo.
"Elizabeth" is a great track though. Best thing that came out of Infinite.
LightofRohan
Member
It was incredible, really well done and a game story that felt actually fleshed out and interesting to follow.
People love to hate it because their necessant need to fulfill their going against the popular crowd ego, outweighs actual good craftsmanship and story-telling.
Plus shitting on game stories and never giving an examples of game stories that are good is the easiest way to express a profound opinion on the internet.
(Not saying anyone here is like that, I know some people)
People love to hate it because their necessant need to fulfill their going against the popular crowd ego, outweighs actual good craftsmanship and story-telling.
Plus shitting on game stories and never giving an examples of game stories that are good is the easiest way to express a profound opinion on the internet.
(Not saying anyone here is like that, I know some people)
Complicated
Banned
It's a great example of the right way to weave together a story with a complex structure. It would be impressive if it was a movie. The fact that they were able to do it in a video game, and one that isn't excessively linear and controlled, is insanely impressive.
Edit: I'm sure a lot of people prefer straightforward storytelling, which I understand. Most media like this (Inception is a good example) tends to draw very similar criticism from people who call it nonsensical. 99% of games do a bad job telling straightforward stories. I loved Bioshock Infinite because it does an amazing job telling a complex story.
Edit: I'm sure a lot of people prefer straightforward storytelling, which I understand. Most media like this (Inception is a good example) tends to draw very similar criticism from people who call it nonsensical. 99% of games do a bad job telling straightforward stories. I loved Bioshock Infinite because it does an amazing job telling a complex story.