BigbyTheSheriff
Member
Tell me about it. I've refunded so many games in the last few months that Steam must be reviewing my account now.
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The Callisto Protocol - The DF Tech Review + PS5 vs Xbox Series X/ S + PC #StutterStruggle Analysis
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
Tell me about it. I've refunded so many games in the last few months that Steam must be reviewing my account now.
The hardware is only as good as the software.
MidGenRefresh
Member
At least the game won't jump scare you because it always stutters in those moments.
As a 4090 owner this graph represents pure horror for me. I'll get it for PS5 if I have time next week and if not, I'll get it when it's fixed on PC sometime next year.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Agreed. These devs aren't talented enough to target 60fps, its a sub par experience and also an afterthought in most games. Should be abolished in most cinematic single player games.
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Arioco
Member
The RT issue on Series X looks like a bug/oversight to me and should be patched sooner than later.
The poor performance on the PC, on the other hand, should've never made the cut. I mean, devs must know the game has a lot of performance issues and needs more optimization. Who thought shipping it like that was a good idea?
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The 60 FPS mode is pretty decent on both PS5 and SX tho.
It's just stripping out a lot to reach that ..
Most likely, it's also exhibiting other prominent bugs from the PC version not on the PS5, so it's definitely undercooked by comparison.,
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Stafford
Member
There really isn't a reason, true that. But we'll see what happens.
YeulEmeralda
Member
Just become a patient gamer and play games at least 2 years after release.
If the developers or fans don't fix it at least you can do a brute force with powerful hardware.
If the developers or fans don't fix it at least you can do a brute force with powerful hardware.
BigbyTheSheriff
Member
Maybe it's time to launch "Arkham Knight Protocol" and delist the game on Steam? It's worse than Rocksteady's game.
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Orta
Banned
A 4090? Says a lot about how lazy and incompetent the dev team is.At least the game won't jump scare you because it always stutters in those moments.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
If you have to strip your game down and sacrifice everything else just to hit 60fps then its not a good experience and not worth it. Especially in a slow paced game like this, who would sacrifice all that graphical detail in a corridor based game like this?
Atmosphere is half the experience in a game like this. Shittier graphics ruin that.
They should have went balls to wall on the graphics and completely ignored the 60fps nonsense.
analog_future
Member
You claiming this has anything to do with laziness says a lot about how little you understand game development.
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01011001
Gold Member
PC version is an unfinished mess
Xbox version is an unfinished mess
games like these deserve no support. it's very clear that they basically concentrated on the PS5 version and just shat the other versions out without much care.
also Unreal Engine once again showing why it's a really bad development that so many studios switch to it!
Xbox version is an unfinished mess
games like these deserve no support. it's very clear that they basically concentrated on the PS5 version and just shat the other versions out without much care.
also Unreal Engine once again showing why it's a really bad development that so many studios switch to it!
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Arioco
Member
The devs did warn us the game will scare the shit out of us, didn't they? Well, they weren't joking, PC gamers for instance, especially the ones who own a very high end GPU, must be screaming right now.
01011001
Gold Member
then it's incompetence... doesn't change shit for the consumer.
Lysandros
Member
The game already dips very heavily on XSX without the RT reflections, its inclusion will have significant impact on top of that. Besides, the lack of RT reflections seems too big of a difference to be a simple bug/oversight to me. It is very possible that they are having problems with its implementation due to API etc. and need more time in order to run it at acceptable performance. It happened before like in Little Nightmares 2.
analog_future
Member
It's almost always about time constraints and limited resources and needing to make some tough decisions in prioritizing what needs to be ready before the game ships. Not incompetence or laziness.
But yes I agree that in the end it doesn't matter to the consumer and this shit needs to be fixed ASAP.
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voidenberg
Member
Are we sure this mess on PC isn't a Denuvo thing?
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
They did custom work on it, maybe it's just that. Obviously Jimbo money at work etc, I am expecting that DX layer for rendering path will be fixed. However I am playing Xbox version on Performance mode and it's fine.
MidGenRefresh
Member
If the best way to play new game is 30FPS quality mode on a console I scream pretty loud.
BigbyTheSheriff
Member
100% sure.
SlimySnake
The Contrarian
Yikes. The fact that the vast majority of xbox consoles sold are series s is troubling because the vast majority of the next gen xbox userbase will not experience the next gen version of this game.
drotahorror
Member
Why do consoles not exhibit the shader compilation issues in UE4 games?
tommib
Banned
BigbyTheSheriff
Member
Those shaders are pre-compiled out of the box on consoles, I think.
ChiefDada
Member
analog_future
Member
analog_future
Member
Based on the XSX having a superior GPU than the PS5 and nearly every game in existence outside of this one performing similarly on both consoles?
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tommib
Banned
This is going to be Digital Foundry’s best graphics of the year. I can smell it.
MidGenRefresh
Member
Easily the best looking game this year!
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
DirectX vs PS API, very different APIs
They are pre-compiled by the devs.
Fbh
Gold Member
Just another reason to not drop $70 on these games.
Buy it now full of issues or buy it in 6-8 months for $30 and fully patched
Performance is also a part of the visual presentation.
People always ignore it but we play games in motion, not in screenshots. To me the smoothness of 60fps improves the actual look of the game way more than something like ray traced reflections. IMO a lot of the improvements on quality modes (not just in this game) seem big in videos like this where you get a static, zoomed-in side by side comparison, but when you are actually playing the game and engaging with the combat and other mechanics I find the differences way harder to spot compared to the very obvious smoothness of 60fps vs 30fps.
Also it's not "sacrificing everything", it's literally the same game at the same resolution just with no ray tracing.
Buy it now full of issues or buy it in 6-8 months for $30 and fully patched
Performance is also a part of the visual presentation.
People always ignore it but we play games in motion, not in screenshots. To me the smoothness of 60fps improves the actual look of the game way more than something like ray traced reflections. IMO a lot of the improvements on quality modes (not just in this game) seem big in videos like this where you get a static, zoomed-in side by side comparison, but when you are actually playing the game and engaging with the combat and other mechanics I find the differences way harder to spot compared to the very obvious smoothness of 60fps vs 30fps.
Also it's not "sacrificing everything", it's literally the same game at the same resolution just with no ray tracing.
01011001
Gold Member
I mean I looked at the gameplay now in more detail and I'm skipping this completely (looks really shit tbh, I'll wait for Dead Space)
so I'm not even really affected here in this case. but it's kinda ridiculous with how bad the state of games at launch is these days.
Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony all need to grow some balls and tell developers and publishers that shit like this is unacceptable.
new verification standards need to be implemented.
games like Cyberpunk on last gen, Pokemon, or this Xbox version of Callisto Procotol should not be allowed to launch, simple as that.
it's kinda weird how videogames are the only medium where this sort of shit is just not only ok but also extremely prevalent.
imagine you buy the newest Marvel movie on UHD Bluray and the majority of scenes just stutter and have visual flaws all over the screen.
and yeah "it can be patched" but that too is an issue imo.
the fact that developers can just be like "yeah we will fix it eventually" is not a good thing. there should similarly be limits to that as well.
developers should not be able to use post launch patches as a crutch, which almost every studio does these days.
finish the fucking game, and then launch it, not the other way around.
and I know it's usually not the studio's fault but the publisher's, and that's why regulations like these have to be out in place imo, to change the current development cycle "announce release date long before the game is finished" culture within these publishers.
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Fixed hardware with pre-compiled shaders. It's easy on consoles because all consoles are the same. There are also pre-compiled shaders for the Steam deck for instance.
It's not possible to do that on PC but what is possible is to let the game compile the shaders the first time so that way it doesn't exhibit stutters every time it has to compile new shaders. The drawback is that it's quite a long process but it makes for a smoother experience.
Uncharted 4 on PC is cool in that it compiles them in the background so you can either wait while they're compiling or play anyway but get stutters.
poppabk
Member
Yep basically the consoles are fixed hardware so they can ship the game with shaders precompiled. For PC there are three options:
1) Force shader compilation before playing - usually takes about 5 - 10 minutes
2) Give the option to compile shaders or jump straight in knowing there will be stutter
Or
3) Only allow compilation on the fly meaning their will almost definitely be stutter during play.
Unreal Engine 4 seems to suffer the most with this. Not sure if there is some issue with allowing shader precompilation with the engine or if it's just UE4 is the first choice for devs who don't really give a shit.
proandrad
Member
Steam should really be reviewing games for obvious technical issues like this before they sell a new game.Tell me about it. I've refunded so many games in the last few months that Steam must be reviewing my account now.
Low Moral Fibre
Member
If you can afford a 4090 you can afford to pay someone to complete the game before you and compile all the shaders on your behalf.
Simple.
Then you get by far the definitive experience as long as you finish it before updating your drivers.
The consoles effectively have no RT as 30fps is unacceptable.
Simple.
Then you get by far the definitive experience as long as you finish it before updating your drivers.
The consoles effectively have no RT as 30fps is unacceptable.
Devs thought shader compilation was a 90's mix tape.
drotahorror
Member
How long really? Like the first time booting up Horizon Zero Dawn?
Even if it was 5 or 10 minutes, why on earth would devs not include it as an option?
"We are compiling shaders now, this process can take up to 10 minutes. We recommend waiting for the best experience." "Press Escape to stop shader compiling"
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Tripolygon
Member
Consoles ship with precompiled shaders because it is a single platform that is identical to every other console. Your PS5 is identical to my PS5 so they can compile the shader and ship it with the game.
On PC, there are millions of combination of hardware and software and driver versions. You can't possibly precompile the shader for those millions of combination hence on PC games have to compile shaders at first game boot, runtime or during loading screen.
That's just the simple explanation of that.
DenchDeckard
Gold Member
Not gonna give money to such a bad PC and Xbox port.
Will pick up the PS5 version used as I am looking forward to playing but not rewarding such poor releases just to get it out for Xmas and only supporting the console you have a marketing deal with.
Will pick up the PS5 version used as I am looking forward to playing but not rewarding such poor releases just to get it out for Xmas and only supporting the console you have a marketing deal with.
Duchess
Member
Well, that's what they were hired to do, but they would've had access to the same code base. You know, just throw in a random usleep call here and there, git push directly to master to skip the code review, and do a stealth history edit ...
True, but usleep is a universal C API call.
I am, yes. Just having a bit of fun. Don't take this seriously..!
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solidus12
Member
Is it a PlayStation exclusive?
Yeah pretty much. Uncharted for instance has the progress of the shaders in the pause menu. You can let them compile or play while they're compiling but at the risk of experiencing stutters.
Why not more devs simply ask "Do you want to compile shaders before running the game?" is beyond me. This seems to be an issue that could be mitigated with more transparency but it seems they're fine tossing this to oblivious customers who grow frustrated due to the awful experiences.
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