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[tommib]

Not for the faint of heart as Mark tears down a lot of the design choices.

Oh, Mark! Of course!

I don’t know what’s worse: the corrupt journalists or the YouTube click bait rage influencers.

 

[bender]

Dude saying that the cutscenes take half or more of the game playtime already tells me all i need to know, the dude is gonna use stupid hyperboles for the whole video.

And i'm far from thinking that the game is perfect.

He knows his stuff when it comes to mechanics in action games and shmups and is one of the few reviewers who will go into to depth about them so the video is more than just stupid hyperboles.

I don’t know what’s worse: the corrupt journalists or the YouTube click bait rage influencers.

Yes, because someone who primarily covers shmups is in it for the clicks. lol

 

[tommib]

He knows his stuff when it comes to mechanics in action games and shmups and is one of the few reviewers who will go into to depth about them so the video is more than just stupid hyperboles.



Yes, because someone who primarily covers shmups is in it for the clicks. lol

Spoiler alert: Stellar Blade is a mainstream action adventure game, not a cabinet Cave shmup.

 

[DragoonKain]

I'm in Matrix 11 and the gameplay loop is starting to get a little boring to me. I really don't feel any of the side quest stuff is remotely rewarding. It's important for materials and stuff, but I prefer in games like this where you get something more noteworthy if you're going to be sinking that much time into exploring.

 

[bender]

Spoiler alert: Stellar Blade is a mainstream action adventure game, not a cabinet Cave shmup.

And? Primarily isn't the same thing as only but I guess I should expect more of this conversation considering the lazy cheap shots.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Not for the faint of heart as Mark tears down a lot of the design choices.

I watched the thing, and I both agree and disagree.

If I am honest he isn't wrong about the combat mechanics. The combo system yes, you need to spend points to even unlock the basic 4 or 6 hit flurries. And they actually are a liability. Enemies will usually hit back after 3 or 4 hits anyway. Especially the latter bosses, you can't even pull off a full level 4 combo on them and it will only get you hit. On top of that it basically doesn't do any damage, so there is little reward for a lot of risk like losing 30% health on a cheap shot. The best is to abuse Beta and Burst to stunlock enemies and doing actual damage while also depleting their balance. A good example is the

Spoiler

Raven fight. This fight is actually harder if you attack. You're better off just waiting for her and fish for parries, hit her with Beta X after Blink, and hit her with something that knocks her down again. This is why Beta and Burst trance builds are probably the best. Trying combos on her will only get you killed and does no damage anyway, this goes for basically all bosses by the way.

Not to mention invincible mode. It has a whole tree based on parries, but why lose valuable time on those? You are invincible, just mash the L1 skills until the bar runs dry.

There are indeed no launchers, which severely limits the combat. Not even small fry you can launch. And get this, air combos actually do far more damage than ground ones. Its not in your system because combat is never in the air but try it out on some mobs, jump and then strike them 4 times and do the triangle stomp attack. It does more damage than the longer and more risky level 4 combo.

He is also right about Eidos 7 being the best part of the game. I replayed it yesterday on NG+ and the first level is really solid in terms of encounters, aesthetics and atmosphere. It looks really good. And you can even expand it later. The wasteland flat out sucks, even if you beeline for the goal its very boring and looks one note. The desert is even worse. But those are the only 2 semi open areas in the game. However, the game would be better if the game kept the design of Eidos 7 throughout. He is right about the scanner but to me this is minor, he can also explore if he craves old school design so much. The wallhack is there to make it easier to find pickups. I only unlocked the upgraded scanner when I had spares.

I disagree about there being little amount of gameplay. The walking scene at the first hyper drive is indeed obnoxious and should've either have a fight and be skippable in NG+ runs. In fact, nothing is skippable in NG+ and you can only fast forward some dialogues but it goes with a lot of lag and feels kind of awkward. But I fought a ton of battles in this game and on top of my head I think there are easily 20 bosses not counting optional side quest battles. The chests, yeah, I'd rather have auto input when I find the code but to me this was fairly minor. Puzzle chests I don't like either, they work in an RPG where you can upgrade tiers of hacking or lockpicking, but in this game you need nothing to open them except for inputting some directionals which feels pointless to me. Though there are a small handful of hackable chests that only open if you have this skill, but I only found maybe 3 in the entire game?

I like this game a ton. And despite some annoyances (not being able to skip things), I enjoy my replay too. But there are absolutely some western padding tropes and busywork in this game. A lot of it is optional, but about 80% of the sidequests are dog shit in Stellar Blade too and they expose the very awkward fast travel system; you typically need to fast travel about 2 or 3 times in a row, and try to warp back to the handler in some cases, only to find that for the next step you need to return to the same area anyway.

 

[tommib]

And? Primarily isn't the same thing as only but I guess I should expect more of this conversation considering the lazy cheap shots.

The video is full of cheap shots. Man is moaning about having to explore the environment to open chests that have a quick time event and generalising it as the epitome of “dumbified” design.

Why point so dramatic guns at this particular game when there are much worse generic templates than Sekiro-lite Korean adventure game. Could it be that he’s taking advantage of it being the popular title of the month? It’s all drama and hyperbole on that video. THE END OF VIDEOGAME DESIGN. Give me a break.

 

[bender]

Could it be that he’s taking advantage of it being the popular title of the month?

Or he likes talking in-depth about shmups, fighting games, and character action games because he loves mechanical driven games and Stellar Blade is a recently released character action game. What it be better if he waited longer to post his thoughts? You don't have to like or agree with his critical eye but maybe refute what you find hyperbolic rather than cheap attempts at character assassination. He can certainly be curmudgeon around modern gaming tropes (see: overuse of parrying in modern action games) but he's hardly a trend or Youtube algorithm chaser.

I watched the thing, and I both agree and disagree.

If I am honest he isn't wrong about the combat mechanics. The combo system yes, you need to spend points to even unlock the basic 4 or 6 hit flurries. And they actually are a liability. Enemies will usually hit back after 3 or 4 hits anyway. Especially the latter bosses, you can't even pull off a full level 4 combo on them and it will only get you hit. On top of that it basically doesn't do any damage, so there is little reward for a lot of risk like losing 30% health on a cheap shot. The best is to abuse Beta and Burst to stunlock enemies and doing actual damage while also depleting their balance. A good example is the

Spoiler

Raven fight. This fight is actually harder if you attack. You're better off just waiting for her and fish for parries, hit her with Beta X after Blink, and hit her with something that knocks her down again. This is why Beta and Burst trance builds are probably the best. Trying combos on her will only get you killed and does no damage anyway, this goes for basically all bosses by the way.

Not to mention invincible mode. It has a whole tree based on parries, but why lose valuable time on those? You are invincible, just mash the L1 skills until the bar runs dry.

There are indeed no launchers, which severely limits the combat. Not even small fry you can launch. And get this, air combos actually do far more damage than ground ones. Its not in your system because combat is never in the air but try it out on some mobs, jump and then strike them 4 times and do the triangle stomp attack. It does more damage than the longer and more risky level 4 combo.

He is also right about Eidos 7 being the best part of the game. I replayed it yesterday on NG+ and the first level is really solid in terms of encounters, aesthetics and atmosphere. It looks really good. And you can even expand it later. The wasteland flat out sucks, even if you beeline for the goal its very boring and looks one note. The desert is even worse. But those are the only 2 semi open areas in the game. However, the game would be better if the game kept the design of Eidos 7 throughout. He is right about the scanner but to me this is minor, he can also explore if he craves old school design so much. The wallhack is there to make it easier to find pickups. I only unlocked the upgraded scanner when I had spares.

I disagree about there being little amount of gameplay. The walking scene at the first hyper drive is indeed obnoxious and should've either have a fight and be skippable in NG+ runs. In fact, nothing is skippable in NG+ and you can only fast forward some dialogues but it goes with a lot of lag and feels kind of awkward. But I fought a ton of battles in this game and on top of my head I think there are easily 20 bosses not counting optional side quest battles. The chests, yeah, I'd rather have auto input when I find the code but to me this was fairly minor. Puzzle chests I don't like either, they work in an RPG where you can upgrade tiers of hacking or lockpicking, but in this game you need nothing to open them except for inputting some directionals which feels pointless to me. Though there are a small handful of hackable chests that only open if you have this skill, but I only found maybe 3 in the entire game?

I like this game a ton. And despite some annoyances (not being able to skip things), I enjoy my replay too. But there are absolutely some western padding tropes and busywork in this game. A lot of it is optional, but about 80% of the sidequests are dog shit in Stellar Blade too and they expose the very awkward fast travel system; you typically need to fast travel about 2 or 3 times in a row, and try to warp back to the handler in some cases, only to find that for the next step you need to return to the same area anyway.

I liked it more than him as well but my years living in Korea probably bias me a bit. I do agree with the overarching points of the game not respecting your time. I'm not so sure I'd go as far as to say it would be better as a boss rush game but those were the best parts of the game by a large margin. I just wish we could get back to 10-15 hour games. I know you can play Stellar Blade like that but I have a hard time skipping content. I'm no my second Elden Ring playthrough and I'm repeating all the useless side content that I kind of hate. lol

 

[tommib]

Or he likes talking in-depth about shmups, fighting games, and character action games because he loves mechanical driven games and Stellar Blade is a recently released character action game. What it be better if he waited longer to post his thoughts? You don't have to like or agree with his critical eye but maybe refute what you find hyperbolic rather than cheap attempts at character assassination. He can certainly be curmudgeon around modern gaming tropes (see: overuse of parrying in modern action games) but he's hardly a trend or Youtube algorithm chaser.



I liked it more than him as well but my years living in Korea probably bias me a bit. I do agree with the overarching points of the game not respecting your time. I'm not so sure I'd go as far as to say it would be better as a boss rush game but those were the best parts of the game by a large margin. I just wish we could get back to 10-15 hour games. I know you can play Stellar Blade like that but I have a hard time skipping content. I'm no my second Elden Ring playthrough and I'm repeating all the useless side content that I kind of hate. lol

“Forget 1984. Stellar Blade is the dystopian future.”

 

[bender]

“Forget 1984. Stellar Blade is the dystopian future.”

Trying putting some jam on your toast sometime.

 

[Doomtrain]

I'm in Matrix 11 and the gameplay loop is starting to get a little boring to me. I really don't feel any of the side quest stuff is remotely rewarding. It's important for materials and stuff, but I prefer in games like this where you get something more noteworthy if you're going to be sinking that much time into exploring.

Yeah, I spent a lot of my gaming time over the weekend doing sidequests in preparation for the point of no return, and my character is only very marginally stronger than before. I love the game overall, but this is definitely an area that I wish was designed a bit better.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Because the damage of your main attacks is a non factor. This makes combo bonus gear redundant; 27% on top of nothing is still nothing. I only use the beta and burst gear, in some sections the Eagle Eye gear, and the speed up is probably good. Ultimately the most important is the health, gear and beta upgrades, and the tumbler. You need the bulk of your materials to make a few tumbler and drone upgrades, and costumes ofcourse.

Or he likes talking in-depth about shmups, fighting games, and character action games because he loves mechanical driven games and Stellar Blade is a recently released character action game. What it be better if he waited longer to post his thoughts? You don't have to like or agree with his critical eye but maybe refute what you find hyperbolic rather than cheap attempts at character assassination. He can certainly be curmudgeon around modern gaming tropes (see: overuse of parrying in modern action games) but he's hardly a trend or Youtube algorithm chaser.



I liked it more than him as well but my years living in Korea probably bias me a bit. I do agree with the overarching points of the game not respecting your time. I'm not so sure I'd go as far as to say it would be better as a boss rush game but those were the best parts of the game by a large margin. I just wish we could get back to 10-15 hour games. I know you can play Stellar Blade like that but I have a hard time skipping content. I'm no my second Elden Ring playthrough and I'm repeating all the useless side content that I kind of hate. lol

I exclusively resorted to playing games from Japan and Asia for the last few years because they are more gamey and usually not tainted by woke curators. But the notion that they don't suffer from artificial padding ofcourse isn't true. FFVII Rebirth got some flak for it, because of its classic Ubisoft open world design, and Infinite Wealth is extremely big even for a Yakuza game. Stellar Blade has this same tropes. Its full of fetch quests. You can see the markers on the Xion map pop up out of nowhere after every event, and this is without even factoring in the bulletin board. I guess you can ignore them (though some are legit good, like the Enya questline.. well that one might be the only good one though a select few others contain some very tough boss fights). Yes, I know you can ignore them.

But then I can't help to think about DMC and NG.. having no side quests at all (only challenge rooms with a meaningful upgrade as a reward). Yet I replayed DMC stages themselves a ton, because I wanted to power up my characters. And to find some missed secret blue orbs. So you don't need fetch quests, you need a reason to replay some content, which DMC did masterfully. And ofcourse, a grading system helps too. This kind of straightforward design is missing nowadays. They all feel the need to pad games out.

 

[rhodesianshepard]

Jurassic World was a decent enough popcorn movie. Fallen Kingdom was quite bad and Dominion was laughably god awful. Somehow, Dominion still made over 1billion, so I doubt much will change going forward. I hope Pratt doesn't return and they give the franchise a soft reboot, at least with new characters. How have people not gotten sick of Pratt playing the same character in every movie?

 

[bender]

I exclusively resorted to playing games from Japan and Asia for the last few years because they are more gamey and usually not tainted by woke curators. But the notion that they don't suffer from artificial padding ofcourse isn't true. FFVII Rebirth got some flak for it, because of its classic Ubisoft open world design, and Infinite Wealth is extremely big even for a Yakuza game. Stellar Blade has this same tropes. Its full of fetch quests. You can see the markers on the Xion map pop up out of nowhere after every event, and this is without even factoring in the bulletin board. I guess you can ignore them (though some are legit good, like the Enya questline.. well that one might be the only good one though a select few others contain some very tough boss fights). Yes, I know you can ignore them.

But then I can't help to think about DMC and NG.. having no side quests at all (only challenge rooms with a meaningful upgrade as a reward). Yet I replayed DMC stages themselves a ton, because I wanted to power up my characters. And to find some missed secret blue orbs. So you don't need fetch quests, you need a reason to replay some content, which DMC did masterfully. And ofcourse, a grading system helps too. This kind of straightforward design is missing nowadays. They all feel the need to pad games out.

I'm with you on mostly playing Japanese games (shout out to Lucas Pope though) but I'm not too bothered by the politics of it. It's more about wanting games to be toys or allowing player expression and Western developers tend to focus more on realistic visuals and narrative that kind of locks out some of those elements. I did all the side quests in Stellar Blade and variety in those quests and locations just don't support how many of those quests they threw out you. I was pretty fatigued by the time I hit the Great Desert. My play time was 47 hours though some of that might be idle. I can't imagine wanting to go through it again, but I said the same thing about Elden Ring and me and a buddy are plowing through it for a second time before the DLC hits. Granted, I like ER much more than SB but who knows.

The lens of DMC and NG is where Mark is coming from. I'll never be skilled enough to mine the depths of those games like he and other do but that's what makes those games remarkable. And I'll also never be able to explain why this game feels more fluid or has better impact because of that and that's why I shared the video. It's like, "hey, I'm not crazy" and this guy can explain it better than I ever can. The same thing happened with the RE4 remake which I like but the original can never be replaced.

 

[Madflavor]

It's been weird seeing the thread on Era absolutely praising the shit outta the game. You can tell some of them hate loving the game as much as they do.

 

[semiconscious]

I like this game a ton. And despite some annoyances (not being able to skip things), I enjoy my replay too. But there are absolutely some western padding tropes and busywork in this game. A lot of it is optional, but about 80% of the sidequests are dog shit in Stellar Blade too and they expose the very awkward fast travel system; you typically need to fast travel about 2 or 3 times in a row, and try to warp back to the handler in some cases, only to find that for the next step you need to return to the same area anyway.

having just gone from replaying bioshock to now replaying arkham asylum, it becomes obvious that there've been both gains & losses involved in transitioning to the current 'expanded' version of game design. I don't feel that it's inherently 'worse' overall (I've enjoyed a whole lot of it), but I do think that, simply by being bigger, it's more difficult to avoid the problems of downtime & dead space than it was previously. there simply being that much more territory to fill in...

 

[bender]

having just gone from replaying bioshock to now replaying arkham asylum, it becomes obvious that there've been both gains & losses involved in transitioning to the current 'expanded' version of game design. I don't feel that it's inherently 'worse' overall (I've enjoyed a whole lot of it), but I do think that, simply by being bigger, it's more difficult to avoid the problems of downtime & dead space than it was previously. there simply being that much more territory to fill in...

This makes me think about open world design and how SOTC is one of my favorites and is fairly empty. The folly of creating GPS systems, maps littered with points of interest, and content every few paces is that most people aren't even going to finish your games, much less engage with all the content so why are developers so afraid to let players miss out on that content.

 

[STARSBarry]

Well iv done the first two endings True first and normal second on hard mode, iv got everything unlocked in the game now in regards to outfits and accessories (I wish Newgame+ had more earings and glasses, you only get like 4 new earings and one new pair of glasses at the end and yellow glow + gold is really overused in them)

Plan to rush through on story to get the final bad ending and get the platinum. Really enjoyed my time with it and I'm looking forward to the sequel in half a decade.

The normal ending boss fights is frankly so many levels better than the true ending one... like it's not even funny how much cooler the regular ending fight is.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

He knows his stuff when it comes to mechanics in action games and shmups and is one of the few reviewers who will go into to depth about them so the video is more than just stupid hyperboles.

He couldn’t even get a very basic thing correct on the amount of cinematics

 

[bender]

He couldn’t even get a very basic thing correct on the amount of cinematics

What did he get wrong about the amount cinematics?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

What did he get wrong about the amount cinematics?

It’s not a lot

 

[tmlDan]

Not for the faint of heart as Mark tears down a lot of the design choices.

Don't need some idiot to tell me anything, i played it and platinumed it myself. Had a blast!

 

[gaming_again]

Mark MSX is always fair. He has very strong likes and dislikes and he's good at explaining these. I knew he was going to hate it as I was playing it lol. His points are mostly correct but the world building and atmosphere make up for it in my eyes. I know he doesn't give af about that though.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Dope concept art wallpaper from the early days of Project Eve

 

[N30RYU]

On my way to speed run the ng+ on easy to get the plat

 

[semiconscious]

This makes me think about open world design and how SOTC is one of my favorites and is fairly empty. The folly of creating GPS systems, maps littered with points of interest, and content every few paces is that most people aren't even going to finish your games, much less engage with all the content so why are developers so afraid to let players miss out on that content.

well, as an example of an open world game, shadow of the colossus is a pretty unique one. it's essentially the world's most laid back boss rush game, & the open world meandering, i've always felt, sorta acts as the calm before each inevitable storm. but, while I personally worship the game, i'm not so sure there's an appetite out there for this type of empty open world. red dead redemption 1/2, i'd say, are more widely popular, appealing examples of relatively barren open world 'horse riding sims'...

now, as far as littering the game map with shit? not a fan, either. i'd say most people prefer hidden goodies to 'look! over here!' goodies...

 

[bender]

It’s not a lot

That's pretty subjective. I think his bigger complaint was about not being able to skip the cutscenes and that problem is compounded by how he perceived the quality of the story. Someone mentioned in the thread earlier that his complained about them being over 50% of the runtime, but I don't remember that so I'm relisting and still don't think he said that. I also transcribed the video and don't see it mentioned (https://youtubetranscript.com/?v=4NgX_eN3gj8) but I could be missing something. But it was also attributed that the video said no juggling = not fast past when what was actually said was: I have plenty to say about the supposed action of this game same with the quote unquote fast-paced combat yeah nothing means fast like standing around and waiting to parry basic mooks who suffer minimal hit stun and cannot be combo'ed or juggled if this is their idea of fast-paced combat what is slow paced? (forgive the formatting, I'm just using the transcript tool). He also goes into much greater detail later in the video detailing his issues with the combat and comparing it to the likes of DMC, Bayo, Ninja Gaiden, and Sekiro. I'm not saying anyone has to agree with him nor do I agree with everything he's saying, but we should do fair what we are attributing.

Don't need some idiot to tell me anything, i played it and platinumed it myself. Had a blast!

I'm glad you had fun. I don't think anyone is trying to tell you anything and a difference of opinion isn't going to stop the sun from rising tomorrow.

well, as an example of an open world game, shadow of the colossus is a pretty unique one. it's essentially the world's most laid back boss rush game, & the open world meandering, i've always felt, sorta acts as the calm before each inevitable storm. but, while I personally worship the game, i'm not so sure there's an appetite out there for this type of empty open world. red dead redemption 1/2, i'd say, are more widely popular, appealing examples of relatively barren open world 'horse riding sims'...

now, as far as littering the game map with shit? not a fan, either. i'd say most people prefer hidden goodies to 'look! over here!' goodies...

Well, SOTC is probably on one end of the spectrum and the majority of the industry designs games on the other end. I'm not saying SOTC is the answer but I do wish more open worlds would let their open world breath. Another example I like to bring up is the stage coach robberies in Elden Ring. I thought it was one of the more memorable moments in an open world game and then it happened again...and maybe a third time if my memory serves me correctly each time with less impact than the one before and overall diminishing the original. That's compounded a little bit when so many chests in the game contained consumable items that didn't feel worthy of the effort it took to get to them. Sometimes less is more or however the saying goes.

 

[tmlDan]

I'm glad you had fun. I don't think anyone is trying to tell you anything and a difference of opinion isn't going to stop the sun from rising tomorrow.

I get where you're coming from but i don't know this person, don't agree with his points, and find them hyperbolic and ADHD driven (i don't want to watch the cinematics type of BS) and I honestly think that being this critical of a studio who made their first triple A console game is unnecessary.

When someone says "the story is painfully stupid with unskippable cutscenes" i don't take them seriously, because I played it and think he's being dramatic for content like most of these people. He is so dramatic, it's complete and absolute childish BS.

 

[Aenima]

 

[R6Rider]

Not for the faint of heart as Mark tears down a lot of the design choices.

This guy is unbearable.

1) Terrible thumbnails that belong in 2005
2) Pointlessly shows himself talking as he reads off his script
3) Complains about basic elements of video games as if they are meant to be core parts of the gameplay itself
4) Complains about simple puzzles to unlock the chests in the game.

An actual quote from the video: "All you need to get through Stellar Blade is a weekend of free time."

Could go on with how terrible this video is, but that's giving him more watch time.

 

[bender]

I get where you're coming from but i don't know this person, don't agree with his points, and find them hyperbolic and ADHD driven (i don't want to watch the cinematics type of BS) and I honestly think that being this critical of a studio who made their first triple A console game is unnecessary.

When someone says "the story is painfully stupid with unskippable cutscenes" i don't take them seriously, because I played it and think he's being dramatic for content like most of these people. He is so dramatic, it's complete and absolute childish BS.

I agree that his intro does some of his later points a disservice as evidenced by the reactions in this thread as it distracts from the more interesting analyzation he does later in the video which is 18:00 minutes in, fair play if you can't tolerate his sap box to get to it.

 

[rofif]

WOW

I unlocked black wave and cybernetic bondage today and I have a hard time playing without constantly looking behind my shoulder lol. The game Is so sexy and that’s all of it. It’s a great game with sexy outfits. And it’s funny nobody ever mentions anything about her dressing in bondage lol.
The whole sex appeal is absolutely not mentioned and it’s all played with a straight face and that’s great.
In usual anime style, getting a haircut is more “yikes” coming from Adam than seeing the dresses lol.

Anyway. I appreciate it.
I find myself doing and clearing absolutely everything before I go to next mission. It’s just fun. Although some enemies are annoying in Great desert.

My fav outfit remains default, pre order, orca exploration and black full dress