Support NeoGAF

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

In a lengthy Twitter thread, Starfield lead and Bethesda studio design director Emil Pagliarulo laments "how disconnected some players are" from the realities of game development, and encourages passionate fans to avoid making assumptions about how and why design decisions are made.

"Funny how disconnected some players are from the realities of game development, and yet they speak with complete authority," Pagliarulo begins. "I mean, I can guess what it takes to make a Hostess Twinkie, but I don't work in the factory, so what the hell do I really know? Not a lot."

Pagliarulo acknowledges that consumers have a right to complain about the things they spend money on, though he doesn't publicly complain about games because of "respect for my fellow devs" and because "it would be uncool and unprofessional of me to do so. But sometimes I want to. Oh boy."

The director points to his time writing game reviews for 1995-founded website Adrenaline Vault, back when he "would say whatever I wanted about a game," with some negative remarks amounting to him "being a sarcastic asshat."

"But throughout that time, I actually had no inkling what game development was actually like. How hard the designers, programmers, artists, producers, and everyone else worked," he says. "The struggle to bring a vision to life with constantly shifting resources. The stress."

Having experienced game development, his perspective on it has changed. "I can't not share the truth," he adds. "And that truth is, nobody sets out to make a bad game. And most game devs are incredibly talented... even if the game they release isn't up to par."

Pagliarulo describes game dev as "a series of concessions and tough decisions," framing a gradient between "that perfect game you want to make" and "the game you can make." Closing that gap is hard in the best conditions, he says, and is made harder by "devs being shuffled around (or leaving), looming deadlines, and creative decisions you wish you didn't have to make."

"So sure, you can dislike parts of a game," he concludes. "You can hate on a game entirely. But don't fool yourself into thinking you know why it is the way it is (unless it's somehow documented and verified), or how it got to be that way (good or bad).

"Chances are, unless you've made a game yourself, you don't know who made certain decisions; who did specific work; how many people were actually available to do that work; any time challenges faced; or how often you had to overcome technology itself (this one is HUGE)."

Pagliarulo notably doesn't specify Starfield here or directly point to any specific pain points from its long development cycle, but it's not hard to read between the lines. The mixed response to Starfield has sparked discussions about Bethesda's design philosophy, the game engine it uses, Starfield's weak links and bugs, and much more.

Such discussions recently reintensified following a viral video from YouTuber NakeyJakey, which calls Bethesda's approach "outdated," that has spread around the Starfield community and racked up over 3.3 million views in four days.

Starfield design lead says players are "disconnected" from how games are actually made: "Don't fool yourself into thinking you know why it is the way it is"

"I can guess what it takes to make a Hostess Twinkie, but I don't work in the factory"

www.gamesradar.com

 

[IlGialloMondadori]

 

[phaedrus]

Lol Bugthesda's still at the Anger stage, looong way to go!

 

[Blood Borne]

I don’t give a fuck. Just make good games. If you don’t like the industry you’re working in, then leave.

 

[kikii]

 

[GrayChild]

You don't need to be a master chef yourself to realize the steak you're eating tastes like crap.

 

[Optimus Lime]

Hey Emil.

Your game fucking sucks.

 

[midnightAI]

Gamers aren't as dumb as you think they are. In fact, it's developers who are sometimes out of touch (and I'm one of em), gamers play all sorts of games all day long, they know what they like, they know plenty about game systems that work, they know what looks good and what doesn't. I'm generalising here of course, but Devs should listen to gamers more in my opinion, they are the customer after all.

And his Twinkie analogy is flawed, you don't have to know how it's made to know if you like the taste or not.

(Edit: as was mentioned a couple of posts above mine)

 

[ikbalCO]

Jesus Christ, the hubris of bethesda about this insanely mediocre game is so tiresome.

They thought it was the second coming of christ or something?

Guys, IT IS A BORING ASS GAME!

Face it. Learn from it.

And fix it for the next skyrim.

My god…

 

[GymWolf]

You can't say that the game is an archaic piece of shit because you don't know how it was created.

 

[Lupin3]

don't fool yourself into thinking you know why it is the way it is

A game doesn't make itself.

 

[bender]

It's nice to see the general consensus of Bethesda games catching up to how Oblivion made me feel. Gamers also shouldn't give a shit how games are made and not knowing how the sausage is made doesn't invalidate their criticism.

 

[Banjo64]

Wow. BGS really huffing the copium pipe.

Repeat after me; it’s ok if people don’t like your game.

 

[Vlodril]

These guys just can't take the L. It's everyone else's fault but them. I think they convinced themself due to previous successes that they were part of the upper tier of devs in gaming and now they are getting a rude awakening.

It was always the modders that made your games tolerable (i love skyrim but come on they should have seen that coming after fallout 4 let alone fallout 76. Even skyrim is a much better games with mods than without. Can't play that game without skyui).

 

[Phobos Base]

Yes I've no doubt game design is hard, but there's nothing special or unique about it. As with any other field, if you release a product your customers aren't happy with, you go back and make it better. If Ford released a car no one liked, they wouldn't take to social media blaming people for not knowing how to drive it properly.

 

[John Bilbo]

Have Bethesda employees had this kind of response before or is this new? Has something changed within Bethesda?

I've mostly followed their games on the outskirts. I tried to get into Skyrim ten years ago. Loved the world and exploration, but the combat didn't click with me.

 

[ryzen1]

I can understand why this game is the way it is...

Of course we don't know why certain decisions were made. But what do I care about Bethesda's decisions.
At the end of the day, I criticize their game, which is a result of their decisions.

After all, he will probably be able to judge the taste of Twinkies without making any himself.
Twinkies... which in turn is the result of decisions made by Hostess

 

[phaedrus]

Gamers aren't as dumb as you think they are. In fact, it's developers who are sometimes out of touch (and I'm one of em), gamers play all sorts of games all day long, they know what they like, they know plenty about game systems that work, they know what looks good and what doesn't. I'm generalising here of course, but Devs should listen to gamers more in my opinion, they are the customer after all.

And his Twinkie analogy is flawed, you don't have to know how it's made to know if you like the taste or not.

(Edit: as was mentioned a couple of posts above mine)

 

[Lord Panda]

 

[STARSBarry]

Literally this.

 

[Danjin44]

Devs are free how they want to design their own game but players also free not to like it.

 

[Bernoulli]

 

[Robb]

What’s his point? Things aren’t static, everyone work under strict conditions at every workplace and your end product and design decisions will naturally be compared to that of other products in the same industry.

If I eat a Twinkie and it tastes bad compared to another similar treat I don’t need to work at the factory to know they’ve fucked up.

 

[GigaBowser]

You don't need to be a master chef yourself to realize the steak you're eating tastes like crap.

hey pal leave marster cheif out of this he was my role model

 

[Gudji]

I don't give a fuck about how your game is made.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Its time for Bethesda to shut up. Were they always like this? or is this the first time they are being called out for making a shit game?

 

[gaming_again]

I am so glad that something so corporate and safe and inoffensive is being rejected like this. The industry needs to move away from that mindset. Starfield has done us all a favour.

 

[Ben87fr]

Haha fucking Pagliarulo again, just shut up at this point maybe ? You're doing more harm than good

 

[Mowcno]

Just keep quiet. Seriously. This, just like those laughable steam review responses, just makes the situation worse.

 

[skit_data]

Both this and the developer comments on steam are a... interesting way to respond to criticism. I'd say it's better to just stay quiet but there is probably some great analysis behind how going into an active confrontation with players will make the game look better.

 

[RickSanchez]

Been one surprising response after another from Bethesda folks.

First Todd says their game is optimized and we should all upgrade to new expensive GPUs. Then, they start responding to critical steam reviews by essentially saying "you're playing it wrong". Now this person is saying we should all stop the criticism because we don't know how hard it was ?

Bro, my wife does not know how hard my dick gets, but she still criticizes it. Fucking suck it up and improve your game.

 

[realcool]

 

[Loomy]

I have no idea how the fuck a movie is made. I can spot a piece of shit when I see one though.

 

[IllegalLemon]

Starfield design lead says players are "disconnected" from how games are actually made: "Don't fool yourself into thinking you know why it is the way it is"

"I can guess what it takes to make a Hostess Twinkie, but I don't work in the factory"

www.gamesradar.com

His role, is making video games, a gamer's role, is to buy the game, presumably paying the asking price at purchase and proceed to play it. I want the game you promised, when I accept paying full price for it. When your boss, becomes one, massive advertising machine, with a mouth bigger than Peter Molyneux and ends up promising stuff he can't deliver and won't deliver(possibly), the ones who get caught up in the middle, are the ones who make and code these games, who are caught up in a web of lies, orchestrated by the big boss who can't keep his mouth shut and end up underdelivering, because they can't meet those standards and demands.

That's Starfield for you. A game massive in scope, but whose execution went horribly wrong. Ship building is great, base building is great. But with a bland story and empty environments in all, but the major cities and one that tries to give players the illusion of choice and non linear story paths. It had potential, but it failed to meet the standards set by the Bethesda games that came before it, including Skyrim, it just doesn't have that intrigue you get when you look at those mountains In the distance in Skyrim and be like "I want to go there and explore", Starfield lacks that charm. Don't blame gamers when you set goals and unrealistic standards you can't meet and then throw a fit and tantrum when said gamers call you out for it. Man up, and own up to those mistakes. After all, those are your responsibilities as a game developer, especially for an ip that made promises as big as Starfield did and set unrealistic expectations for itself.

 

[Roman Empire]

Admit it guys, Creation Engine fucking sucks and is a relic of the past. It is great for modding but Bethesda is clearly lagging behind against new Engines out there.

 

[winjer]

It's really funny, but also pathetic, how Bethesda continues to think they made a masterpiece with Starfield, when in reality, they made a subpar game, with a ton of issues.
The lack of self awareness is truly staggering.

 

[Tommi84]

So it's THE PLAYERS' FAULT for the flop and bad reciews? Sure, sure

 

[Heisenberg007]

Yeah, players don't need to give a fuck about the "realities of game development" lol.

They pay $70 for a game, and they expect things to work well and as advertised or insinuated.

This interview is just another piece of the ongoing bullshit and victim complex from Bethesda.

 

[King Dazzar]

Bethesda really do appear to be suffering from delusions of grandeur. It reminds me of Brad Smith's anti UK comments over ABK. Its a repugnant arrogance. And not the best strategy imo for retaining customer goodwill towards you.

 

[GHG]

God these guys have fit in to Microsoft's way of doing things and thinking in record time.

Zero accountability, maximum delusion.

 

[Mephisto40]

They genuinely believe they have made the game of the century don't they

 

[Boaty McBoatface]

I don't even think 'gamers' aren't aware of how hard the creators work, it's more they're aware and vocal of what they do and don't like, and can associate certain things to what's ruining the industry, mainly woke-ism and modern workday practices. It's like the games are secondary and customer is absolutely last when it comes to how these companies are run.

 

[Darkness_Arises]

If I was interested in knowing how games or any kind of art for that matter is made, I am definitely not asking the people involved in designing the night club in Starfield. I have no idea how any self-respecting artist can make something so terribly cringey. It is so terrible, I do not even want to spoil other people's day by posting screenshots of it.

 

[Bartski]

He should check neogaf more often

 

[mansoor1980]

no wonder pete hines left that place

 

[Topher]

I loved Starfield, but it damn sure could have been better. I don't need to know how games are made to formulate that opinion.

 

[GHG]

He should check neogaf more often

Just go read the Steam reviews and the game discussion forum there.

Then go and look at the top downloaded mods for the game.

The former will give them a clear picture of what gamers actually wanted out of this game along with the problems and the latter will show them what the community is doing to fix their mediocre game.

 

[Kenneth Haight]

 

[Flutta]

Take this and move the f on.
You made a boring lazy space game end off.

Not looking good for their future titels if idiots like this guy are the majority over at Beth lol.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Obligatory from 6 years ago:



There is also a never video he made for GDC I think:



Long story short - this man should never been allowed to work as a lead on any videogame. In the end he is responsible for Bethesda games getting worse and worse starting after Morrowind.