DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Episode 2 was EXCELLENT. This isn't Discovery
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AJUMP23
Gold Member
Episode 2, was a very special episode where star trek deals with racism and discrimination. Watch as we shove today's issues in your face, but in a sleek futuristic aesthetic. Eugenics Lives Matter!
I liked the episode
Isn't that exactly what TNG is actually applauded for, probing current issues without being heavy handed. I haven't seen the second season yet, paramount+ sub ended right before season started.
AJUMP23
Gold Member
People like TNG for Q and his trial on all mankind and the BORG.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
It reminded me of "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" from TOS coupled with "Measure of a Man".
Oberstein
Member
In a much worse version, though.
The trick of applying for
asylum and then erasing everything that happened is a ploy that no court would accept... in the 21st century.
Still, the episode was decent.
It was the first episode in particular that was really bad. The drugs that allow you to become x-men with multiplied strength, the walk in space with a bit of frost on your clothes, etc., it really wasn't very good.
And once again, where are the strange new worlds?! The series has never been so badly named.
Pegasus Actual
Member
Now now, both episodes suck.
"Measure of a Man"? Yeah this ain't even close. One strength of that episode is they made Riker play devil's advocate, and he went hard. In this piece of shit it's... racism is bad... rules are like super racist... you don't have to follow racist rules... and the 'legal reasoning' is pretty much "fuck you you fucking racists" while this lady makes this smug-ass face the whole fucking time.
I guess Pike's girlfriend was kind of supposed to be the Riker role but she acted like she didn't want to be there and had to take a huge shit. Barely did anything, and then got sidelined by Look-at-this-Vulcan-Asshole who... tries to... make it a joint trial for conspiracy with Pike.... or something?
My own smarmy nitpick, early on in the episode Pike's girlfriend is all "in violation of codes 614 to 617" or something like that... like Number One-Chin violated 4 consecutive rules, then the computer reads that same shit back at the start of the trial and it's like code 614617. I find that shit annoying and lazy in the average episode, especially when I notice it while at-most paying half-attention because it's kind of shit to begin with... but then you do it in a lawyer episode... and it's like what the fuck are we even doing here boys? Lawyering IS nitpicking the fucking details.
"Measure of a Man"? Yeah this ain't even close. One strength of that episode is they made Riker play devil's advocate, and he went hard. In this piece of shit it's... racism is bad... rules are like super racist... you don't have to follow racist rules... and the 'legal reasoning' is pretty much "fuck you you fucking racists" while this lady makes this smug-ass face the whole fucking time.
I guess Pike's girlfriend was kind of supposed to be the Riker role but she acted like she didn't want to be there and had to take a huge shit. Barely did anything, and then got sidelined by Look-at-this-Vulcan-Asshole who... tries to... make it a joint trial for conspiracy with Pike.... or something?
My own smarmy nitpick, early on in the episode Pike's girlfriend is all "in violation of codes 614 to 617" or something like that... like Number One-Chin violated 4 consecutive rules, then the computer reads that same shit back at the start of the trial and it's like code 614617. I find that shit annoying and lazy in the average episode, especially when I notice it while at-most paying half-attention because it's kind of shit to begin with... but then you do it in a lawyer episode... and it's like what the fuck are we even doing here boys? Lawyering IS nitpicking the fucking details.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Now now, both episodes suck.
"Measure of a Man"? Yeah this ain't even close. One strength of that episode is they made Riker play devil's advocate, and he went hard. In this piece of shit it's... racism is bad... rules are like super racist... you don't have to follow racist rules... and the 'legal reasoning' is pretty much "fuck you you fucking racists" while this lady makes this smug-ass face the whole fucking time.
I guess Pike's girlfriend was kind of supposed to be the Riker role but she acted like she didn't want to be there and had to take a huge shit. Barely did anything, and then got sidelined by Look-at-this-Vulcan-Asshole who... tries to... make it a joint trial for conspiracy with Pike.... or something?
My own smarmy nitpick, early on in the episode Pike's girlfriend is all "in violation of codes 614 to 617" or something like that... like Number One-Chin violated 4 consecutive rules, then the computer reads that same shit back at the start of the trial and it's like code 614617. I find that shit annoying and lazy in the average episode, especially when I notice it while at-most paying half-attention because it's kind of shit to begin with... but then you do it in a lawyer episode... and it's like what the fuck are we even doing here boys? Lawyering IS nitpicking the fucking details.
"Racism is bad, mmkay" is what you got out of that? It's allegory for any number of marginalized peoples ... Real or imaginary. LGBTQ, black, Asian, Italian, immigrant, Jew, Muslim, etc. There were laws put in place against ALL of those groups within the military and/or the US at large.
Any group can see themselves in the trial. THAT'S the point! The leadership of a country (in this case, Earth countries) has outlawed many different groups from serving or being seen as legit citizens and that has echoed through to the citizenry ... Allowing bigotry and hatred... Whether it's your skin color, religion, nationality, ability, etc. Number One spoke of someone painting "augment" on someone's door ... That's been the experience of many of the groups I listed.
We've come far but we have so far to go. Number One joined Starfleet because of the ideals she saw in it... And that they can continually become better! That's what The Federation is .. the pursuit of a more perfect galaxy of peace.
The whole episode was about that hope... Ad Astra Per Aspera.
ItsGreat
Member
It's Instagram oversaturated visuals combined with childish writing. Nothing of the professionalism of TNG or even TOS the characters exists.
If they can't get use of language and attitudes right it's not Star Trek.
AJUMP23
Gold Member
DS9 is good too.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Especially the last 3-4 seasons!
AJUMP23
Gold Member
Strangely I have never seen the last season, because my area dropped its syndication. And I have never bothered to watch the dominion war. I really should though. I really enjoyed the cast of DS9
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Dude! You're in for an emotional treat! The final season is AMAZING! Some of the very BEST Trek stories!
In the words of Worf: "it was... Glorious!"
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Now now, both episodes suck.
"Measure of a Man"? Yeah this ain't even close. One strength of that episode is they made Riker play devil's advocate, and he went hard. In this piece of shit it's... racism is bad... rules are like super racist... you don't have to follow racist rules... and the 'legal reasoning' is pretty much "fuck you you fucking racists" while this lady makes this smug-ass face the whole fucking time.
I guess Pike's girlfriend was kind of supposed to be the Riker role but she acted like she didn't want to be there and had to take a huge shit. Barely did anything, and then got sidelined by Look-at-this-Vulcan-Asshole who... tries to... make it a joint trial for conspiracy with Pike.... or something?
My own smarmy nitpick, early on in the episode Pike's girlfriend is all "in violation of codes 614 to 617" or something like that... like Number One-Chin violated 4 consecutive rules, then the computer reads that same shit back at the start of the trial and it's like code 614617. I find that shit annoying and lazy in the average episode, especially when I notice it while at-most paying half-attention because it's kind of shit to begin with... but then you do it in a lawyer episode... and it's like what the fuck are we even doing here boys? Lawyering IS nitpicking the fucking details.
Like all NuTrek, they handle it with the grace of a whale trying to dance on broadway. Heavy handed, lacks any nuance - I am not surprised to see the usual suspects cheering it on. They probably couldn't handle things with actual tact or decent writing. It would go over their heads.
Pegasus Actual
Member
The time travel episode was not great in general... but freakin' Toronto? Who wants to see present day Toronto. Bad enough that Picard spent a season in present day LA but Toronto? C'mon man.
That makes me wonder though... should Star Trek time travel eps ever transport into present day? I'm gonna vote no. Outside of Star Trek IV has it ever worked? The good time travel type episodes I remember are circled around Trek's present time, say All Good Things, Tomorrow's Enterprise, or even like a Year of Hell... or have a nice, at least 30-ish year, buffer from present day, City on the Edge of Forever, Past Tense, Little Green Men...
Just feels like lazy cheap production, and is dangerous from the perspective of smug activist writing like the Picard ICE stuff or the cringy civil rights lawyer cellphone scene in this one. Past Tense was pretty preachy, but the 30 year buffer did a lot for it, and as it turns out it wasn't far off from the actual state of real world San Fran as we approach its 2024 setting. And I recall the preachiest bits coming from Julian Bashir, the naive idealist character.
So what else we got going on... Vermont lady? Does anyone like her and her weirdo mannerisms? I'm just checking. I ain't into it personally.
Noonien-Singh Kirk things? Is the security officer going to get wiped from the timeline, or maybe some Discovery shit where it's like okay Spock if you ever talk about having a sister again it's like super illegal. Seems to be a lot of shoehorning going on.
The only on-brand thing of this Kirk is him trying to bang her. But in general, it just doesn't feel like Kirk. I think it's both the casting and the writing. This is a huge downgrade from Chris Pine, let alone the Shat.
The whole Khan timecop timeshift thing has me reminiscing about those books from like 20+ years ago where they tried to make Star Trek canon work with the actual events of the 1970s-1990s. I liked those as silly non-canon books. A for effort.
That makes me wonder though... should Star Trek time travel eps ever transport into present day? I'm gonna vote no. Outside of Star Trek IV has it ever worked? The good time travel type episodes I remember are circled around Trek's present time, say All Good Things, Tomorrow's Enterprise, or even like a Year of Hell... or have a nice, at least 30-ish year, buffer from present day, City on the Edge of Forever, Past Tense, Little Green Men...
Just feels like lazy cheap production, and is dangerous from the perspective of smug activist writing like the Picard ICE stuff or the cringy civil rights lawyer cellphone scene in this one. Past Tense was pretty preachy, but the 30 year buffer did a lot for it, and as it turns out it wasn't far off from the actual state of real world San Fran as we approach its 2024 setting. And I recall the preachiest bits coming from Julian Bashir, the naive idealist character.
So what else we got going on... Vermont lady? Does anyone like her and her weirdo mannerisms? I'm just checking. I ain't into it personally.
Noonien-Singh Kirk things? Is the security officer going to get wiped from the timeline, or maybe some Discovery shit where it's like okay Spock if you ever talk about having a sister again it's like super illegal. Seems to be a lot of shoehorning going on.
The only on-brand thing of this Kirk is him trying to bang her. But in general, it just doesn't feel like Kirk. I think it's both the casting and the writing. This is a huge downgrade from Chris Pine, let alone the Shat.
The whole Khan timecop timeshift thing has me reminiscing about those books from like 20+ years ago where they tried to make Star Trek canon work with the actual events of the 1970s-1990s. I liked those as silly non-canon books. A for effort.
So S2ep1 of SNW was pseudo trash, but the end pulled it out of a terminal nosedive. That new engineer......ehhhhhh. Her casual manner no matter what will suck the tension out of any scene. And AGAIN they use performance enhancing mods to great effect yet somehow demonize genetic mods? These guys got an odd sense of "Fair play" 
S2ep2 though, court cases are always fun. Yeah, it's not particularly subtle but it IS fun to see ALLLLLLLLL the times these "Starfleet regulations" are shown to be hot trash to the point where I'm shocked the writers continue to quote them at every opportunity. Having been in cases like this, seeing a lawyer try to smear witnesses in an attempt to bully the court to let the defendant go rings true.
I find it odd that the augment stuff was so prevelant CENTURIES after the eugenic wars though, particularly when you think this reverse GATTACA situation could be easily sorted via medical scans and the type of augments Illyrians used could be adjusted away from whatever Starfleet disliked. And they kinda undermine themselves with the "Illyrians who could pass" when every damned one we see is just a normie human. Sure, they are leaning hard on the allegory but really, a bit of strength and a dope immune system hardly seems the type of thing Starfleet/Federation gives a shit about given that Vulcans, and plenty of other races, demonstrate those traits on the reg. A proper balanced episode should have tied in a generalized public health risk like going Targaryen insane or space HIV to the Illyrian mods to really hammer home why folks might be scared of these superbeings. I hope Una can make a man burst into flames with her mind or something
I like this cast though so the kinda pat resolution works for me. That end lawyer speech was 100% trek though and it was pretty awesome. The round of applause was a bit much though. Make your point, take the win, and GTFO.
Listening to a podcast with a guy who is getting his wife to watch trek eps. They started with TOS so I've been rewatching those and WOW, did a lot of starfleet folks dis Vulcans back then. So this kinda stuff was there from the get go.
S2ep2 though, court cases are always fun. Yeah, it's not particularly subtle but it IS fun to see ALLLLLLLLL the times these "Starfleet regulations" are shown to be hot trash to the point where I'm shocked the writers continue to quote them at every opportunity. Having been in cases like this, seeing a lawyer try to smear witnesses in an attempt to bully the court to let the defendant go rings true.
I find it odd that the augment stuff was so prevelant CENTURIES after the eugenic wars though, particularly when you think this reverse GATTACA situation could be easily sorted via medical scans and the type of augments Illyrians used could be adjusted away from whatever Starfleet disliked. And they kinda undermine themselves with the "Illyrians who could pass" when every damned one we see is just a normie human. Sure, they are leaning hard on the allegory but really, a bit of strength and a dope immune system hardly seems the type of thing Starfleet/Federation gives a shit about given that Vulcans, and plenty of other races, demonstrate those traits on the reg. A proper balanced episode should have tied in a generalized public health risk like going Targaryen insane or space HIV to the Illyrian mods to really hammer home why folks might be scared of these superbeings. I hope Una can make a man burst into flames with her mind or something
I like this cast though so the kinda pat resolution works for me. That end lawyer speech was 100% trek though and it was pretty awesome. The round of applause was a bit much though. Make your point, take the win, and GTFO.
Listening to a podcast with a guy who is getting his wife to watch trek eps. They started with TOS so I've been rewatching those and WOW, did a lot of starfleet folks dis Vulcans back then. So this kinda stuff was there from the get go.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
It's amazing how all of us Trekkies have such differing opinions... Which is GREAT!
INFINITE DIVERSITY IN INFINITE COMBINATION
INFINITE DIVERSITY IN INFINITE COMBINATION
Ehhh, just wait till they redo "Space Seed" (you KNOW Kahn is coming). If they fuck that up it will unite us all under one banner for sure
Ok, S2ep3, I'm getting ST:IV vibes, hope it lasts. Just going to Canada does feel cheap, which is something nu-trek DOES NOT do. I tolerated this stuff when it was clear $$$ was an issue but these shows are clearly not lacking in that department. Making cash via chess was ingenious as well, versus hacking an ATM or whatever. Kudos for that one.
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Well,Ehhh, just wait till they redo "Space Seed" (you KNOW Kahn is coming). If they fuck that up it will unite us all under one banner for sure
that didn't take long
Not really a fan of time police type stuff as I think the "prime timeline" is a pretty nebulous concept and hard to defend (as it is in this ep where alt-Kirk puts out a lot of valid reasons for his timeline). The cracks in her emotional armor seen in S1ep10 make a lot more sense now.
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Well,that didn't take long
Not really a fan of time police type stuff as I think the "prime timeline" is a pretty nebulous concept and hard to defend (as it is in this ep where alt-Kirk puts out a lot of valid reasons for his timeline). The cracks in her emotional armor seen in S1ep10 make a lot more sense now.
This was a good episode. Not as good as last week but about as good as episode 1.
It was OK. But now we have Pike AND security chick jumping in time. I fear the writers will keep doing this as a way to 'redo" TOS episodes (like we saw in s1e10) whilst maintaining some semblance of canon.
AJUMP23
Gold Member
Well,that didn't take long
Not really a fan of time police type stuff as I think the "prime timeline" is a pretty nebulous concept and hard to defend (as it is in this ep where alt-Kirk puts out a lot of valid reasons for his timeline). The cracks in her emotional armor seen in S1ep10 make a lot more sense now.
Kirk has become an experienced time traveler now.
Oberstein
Member
Ep.3 Against all odds, I enjoyed this episode. Much better than the previous one.
Time-travel episodes are always tricky, but they came off well, despite a couple of mistakes. But basically, it was a front for a duo.
And then a miracle happened: we got to see a heterosexual relationship in a recent series. The chemistry between the two worked really well.
Hats off to Christina Chong, when she
Plus, she's smoking hot. Too bad they're making her ugly on screen.
Time-travel episodes are always tricky, but they came off well, despite a couple of mistakes. But basically, it was a front for a duo.
And then a miracle happened: we got to see a heterosexual relationship in a recent series. The chemistry between the two worked really well.
Hats off to Christina Chong, when she
sobbed in a burst of tears at the end of the episode, she really nailed it.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Nooooo kidding. Though she rocked that full body fighting suit, musta been chilly in the studio that day
Never thought I'd see Rebecca Romaine-Stamos upstaged though, they gotta let these ladies SHINE!
She looks good as security officer with the braided hair. She's got that mystery beauty about her.
I think it's the eyeliner, hope we get a little scene of her waking up in a fluffy pink teddy, listening to k-pop, then she slowly turns it all off as she dons her security guard persona.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
My Brother! LoL!
Trilobit
Member
Does the captain still act like he's been neutered and has to act like a 50s housewife?
The only thing I remember from the previous season is 0-charisma Kirk. What in the world were they thinking of casting such a wet rag for such a role?
I read some positive comments about season 2 on Reddit, but they all sounded like fanatical ideologues who cared more about "the message" than intelligent and subtle storytelling. One even said that "everyone needs to understand these issues, and sometimes you need a sledgehammer to drive that point home". I like interesting and challenging stories, but I'm not interested in getting preached at. If some love the delivery of the plot points, then perhaps they only love it because they're already converted.
The only thing I remember from the previous season is 0-charisma Kirk. What in the world were they thinking of casting such a wet rag for such a role?
I read some positive comments about season 2 on Reddit, but they all sounded like fanatical ideologues who cared more about "the message" than intelligent and subtle storytelling. One even said that "everyone needs to understand these issues, and sometimes you need a sledgehammer to drive that point home". I like interesting and challenging stories, but I'm not interested in getting preached at. If some love the delivery of the plot points, then perhaps they only love it because they're already converted.
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
"I'm from space!"
That line makes so much more sense after episode 3! I knew the trailer had context missing and so many thought it was main timeline Kirk.
That's all I'll say about that.
That line makes so much more sense after episode 3! I knew the trailer had context missing and so many thought it was main timeline Kirk.
That's all I'll say about that.
Pegasus Actual
Member
2x04 was mostly a competent standard episode of Star Trek. The runtime is bloated and it could easily lose the Ortegas "I fly the ship" nonsense and Pike's skank girlfriend (she honestly has less charisma than SNW-Kirk even). And the tinnitus sound was pretty bad... like.. just have the sound drop out and be really muddy or something. Nobody wants that shit in their ears when watching a fucking episode of TV. But aside from that, the stuff on the planet was all fine and dandy, and it felt like it could have been an episode of TOS or Stargate SG-1 or something.
I dug S2ep4 a lot. Felt VERY TOS. I wished they spent a little more time debating the morality of removing the asteroid as it changes the civilization but the momento tattoo stuff was great and they actually did some character work instead of a bunch of flashbacks like I feared going in. The wrap around of Pike and hottie McLawyer lady was very well done.
I'm torn on where I want this show to go. I think the Pike/Spock stuff is tiresome as we've gotten SO MUCH of it through the years but they are the best actors. The commando doc, happy go lucky pilot, and enigmatic security officer are the most interesting to explore, but I dislike their acting at times. Especially the doc, he has such low energy he can drain the passion out of a molly rave, the nurse chapel actress tends to over compensate in their scenes. Ortega's actress can be fun, but that character gets the worst lines. L'ann or whatever is great to watch, though I fear we will get more of her trauma as the Gorn plot moves forward and that's the least interesting part of her. She needs to be allowed to move past scowling all the time.
I'm torn on where I want this show to go. I think the Pike/Spock stuff is tiresome as we've gotten SO MUCH of it through the years but they are the best actors. The commando doc, happy go lucky pilot, and enigmatic security officer are the most interesting to explore, but I dislike their acting at times. Especially the doc, he has such low energy he can drain the passion out of a molly rave, the nurse chapel actress tends to over compensate in their scenes. Ortega's actress can be fun, but that character gets the worst lines. L'ann or whatever is great to watch, though I fear we will get more of her trauma as the Gorn plot moves forward and that's the least interesting part of her. She needs to be allowed to move past scowling all the time.
And goddamn, Lower Decks S3 is ON FIRE. The ABSOLUTE BEST trek in forever, just wrapped up in very juvenile potty humor. But damned if they don't move each character a little bit forward no matter what, such skillful writing. Sooooo may damned Easter eggs for trek fans. Total palate cleanser after that grim Picard s3.
And BTW, it's so nice to be able to talk Trek again.
And BTW, it's so nice to be able to talk Trek again.
Oberstein
Member
Yep, the episode is very TOS, compared to other episodes that feel more TNG. The balance is sometimes delicate, and the show swings back and forth between the two.
Less striking than the 2x3, but still enjoyable. I'd have liked it to have gone a little further in concept, so it feels a bit filler. I do, however, like the references to the Odyssey.
Preview of 2x4:
Darkmakaimura
Member
I don't get the Star Trek "prequels" they have. The Captain Kirk in this show looks nothing like the Captain Kirk from the original series. Are we seriously supposed to believe that's William Shatner's character? Because it doesn't really look anything like him and I'm going to guess this is current year Kirk because they definitely wouldn't want to go back to the Kirk for the original series who was a little bit misogynistic, for instance.
It takes my belief away completely and I'm thinking this has to be a parallel universe but it's not. Even Chris Pines' Kirk looked more like William Shatner.
Even Nurse Chapel, while very cute, looks and sounds nothing like Gene Roddenberry's wife.
I don't know but that automatically takes me out of it so far.
It takes my belief away completely and I'm thinking this has to be a parallel universe but it's not. Even Chris Pines' Kirk looked more like William Shatner.
Even Nurse Chapel, while very cute, looks and sounds nothing like Gene Roddenberry's wife.
I don't know but that automatically takes me out of it so far.
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I dunno, Kirk isn't the focus of the show, it doesn't bother me much. I don't want someone trying to imitate The Shats speech patterns. A little more burley would be nice though.
I'm with you on Nurse Chepel as well but that poor actress has to carry ALL the feminine sexuality for the other 4 dour female characters plus counter balance the doc actor, she's practically Altas.
And yeah, new Uhura got NOTHING on Nichelle but I'll accept the "I'm young" excuse on that one.
I'm with you on Nurse Chepel as well but that poor actress has to carry ALL the feminine sexuality for the other 4 dour female characters plus counter balance the doc actor, she's practically Altas.
And yeah, new Uhura got NOTHING on Nichelle but I'll accept the "I'm young" excuse on that one.
More like HOT MAMA,
Spockies mom has got it going on,
Spock, can't you see?
You're just not the vulcan for me
I know it might be illogical
I'm in love with Spockies' mom
Another fun episode, a bit of winking at the camera about playing a vulcan. However with only 10 eps in a season I'd like some exploration first eps to balance the character study bits. The call center aliens were interesting and I wish Uhura would have used her knowledge of "old earth customs" to demand to speak to a supervisor or something. And kudos to T'pring for calling Spock out on his bullshit in engaging in needless drama. They are doing a good job showing the vulcan rituals purpose and making them deeper than just "emotionless logic machines".
And goddamn, get Nurse Chapel a damned hairbrush or something, her hairstyle is so unflattering.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Mia Kirshner is 2 years my junior and she is SMOKIN! I HAD NO IDEA! DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANG!
Pegasus Actual
Member
The Spock Mommy Milkers thing is a bit off-putting... like, Spock's actor is 5 years younger than me, and she's like 6 years older... so they both kinda feel the same age as me, or at least close enough...
Even just going with the objective facts... that'd have Sarek knocking up a 10 year old Amanda Grayson...
Even just going with the objective facts... that'd have Sarek knocking up a 10 year old Amanda Grayson...
S2ep5 did nosedive RIGHT BACK into their confusing, muddled, genetics messaging. Tell me the difference between an illyrian receiving their non transferable genetic augments as a kid and starfleet doing it for a mission or allowing now human Spock to get dosed with a load of Vulcan "genetic augments". I don't really care but I just hope they are over the"persecuted for how we look" Ilyrian thing because it is a dodgy ass analogy at best.
AJUMP23
Gold Member
Both were easy on the eyes.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Mia Kirshner has some bigguns on her.
AJUMP23
Gold Member
The final frontier is full of hot chicks.
Strange New Worlds does. STD....not so much. If you are into cartoons Lower Decks has well drawn women as well.
Nothing like the Vaseline smeared lens effect of the babe of the week from TOS but we are getting there.