Chet Rippo
Member
Or the artist just get a kick out of it.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Spring Anime 2012 III | AITAKATTA YES!
- Thread starter hosannainexcelsis
- Start date
- Status
Or the artist just get a kick out of it.
Jex
Member
[Gunslinger Girl] - The Sixth One
This episode was a considerably more...standard than the previous one. The animation wasn't as good, the direction wasn't as sharp and the story wasn't character centric. However that doesn't mean it was a bad episode, it just means episode 5 was very special.
The formula for this episode was essentially: investigate targets, character stuff for Henrietta, investigate targets, action sequence, a bit more character stuff (but not too much) and that's it. Which is fine. I enjoyed how none of the characters seemed particularly stupid - everyone, including their targets, seemed to have a basic degree of competency.
The show does a lot to build a believable world and having it filled with hard-nosed military types goes along way towards achieving that. I like the small touches as well - there's one scene where Henrietta is passing through a security checkpoint to enter a safe location and out of the corner of the screen you can one of the guards impatiently tapping on his gun - he's clearly on edge. Nothing ever becomes of that, it's not meant to be foreshadowing, it simply portrays the dangerous world these characters exist in.
This episode was a considerably more...standard than the previous one. The animation wasn't as good, the direction wasn't as sharp and the story wasn't character centric. However that doesn't mean it was a bad episode, it just means episode 5 was very special.
The formula for this episode was essentially: investigate targets, character stuff for Henrietta, investigate targets, action sequence, a bit more character stuff (but not too much) and that's it. Which is fine. I enjoyed how none of the characters seemed particularly stupid - everyone, including their targets, seemed to have a basic degree of competency.
The show does a lot to build a believable world and having it filled with hard-nosed military types goes along way towards achieving that. I like the small touches as well - there's one scene where Henrietta is passing through a security checkpoint to enter a safe location and out of the corner of the screen you can one of the guards impatiently tapping on his gun - he's clearly on edge. Nothing ever becomes of that, it's not meant to be foreshadowing, it simply portrays the dangerous world these characters exist in.
Jex
Member
Look at where this path has lead you. You're as doomed as a Gen Urobuchi character.
sounds like the greatest subgenre to ever exist
cosmicblizzard
Banned
The economics genre will only get bigger from here on out.
Jex
Member
I am so glad that I dropped this show after episode 8. It looks finishing the show would have caused pain for me and my loved ones.
Glad to see you've joined the great cause that is Union Flag Watch.is from the same episode at this.
that's a pretty substantial stimulus packagedem economics
Tongue was kinda planted firmly in cheek there!
Jormungand 12 + Retrospective
This episode was no different. Action scenes felt awkward and ungrounded, although the hand to hand combat felt like it moved smoothly, quickly, and felt right. For getting invested in Valmet's arc, which I thought would be the wrap up to the first twelve episodes, I found myself extremely let down. This is almost a textbook example on how not to do pacing. There is a flash away from the climactic moment and all sense of location is lost. Things then hurriedly play out as the show rushes through what should be a the emotional peak for episodes of build up. Insultingly, after everything feels so unresolved the show then pointlessly sets up the next arc at the end of the episode.
Jormungand is really all over the place in terms of its quality from moment to moment. It's a very strange and often unfulfilling show but I find myself drawn to it because I'm interested in the subject matter.
I was actually warming up to this show with Valmet's little side story that comes to a conclusion in this episode. I finally felt like progress was being made towards revealing more about the overabundant cast, and it turns out they're actually a pretty likable bunch. I still see people and have no idea who they are though, and it really turns the tension even further down during the typically ham handed action scenes.
This episode was no different. Action scenes felt awkward and ungrounded, although the hand to hand combat felt like it moved smoothly, quickly, and felt right. For getting invested in Valmet's arc, which I thought would be the wrap up to the first twelve episodes, I found myself extremely let down. This is almost a textbook example on how not to do pacing. There is a flash away from the climactic moment and all sense of location is lost. Things then hurriedly play out as the show rushes through what should be a the emotional peak for episodes of build up. Insultingly, after everything feels so unresolved the show then pointlessly sets up the next arc at the end of the episode.
Jormungand is really all over the place in terms of its quality from moment to moment. It's a very strange and often unfulfilling show but I find myself drawn to it because I'm interested in the subject matter.
Jex
Member
I can't wait for more of these to get turned into anime (which is something that's more likely than Spice and Wolf getting a third season).
Yup, it's awesome like that.
Chet Rippo
Member
Mysterious Girlfriend X 9
What was up with the lighting and colors in this episode? Especially that scene with the extreme-marxist red going on. Well whatever, it has been well established both Urabe and Tsubaki are fucking crazy, so they were meant for each other.
Whoa there Oka...
Does Tsubaki's pervertedness know no bounds?
Chet Rippo
Member
dem economics
Is there or will there be an anime of this?
Because I need it.
Yes, it was just announced yesterday. That's why we're discussing it in the anime thread!
Chet Rippo
Member
Oh...
But chances are they're not using that art, so I'm not sure if the moe levels will be as high.
For those interested, the pages I posted are from Maoyuu Maou Yuusha - "Be mine, Hero" "I refuse!".
Not to be confused with Maoyuu Maou Yuusha, Maoyuu Maou Yuusha - Other Side of the Hill or Maoyuu 4-Koma: You're Horrible, Maou-sama!, which are all awful in comparison.
For those interested, the pages I posted are from Maoyuu Maou Yuusha - "Be mine, Hero" "I refuse!".
Not to be confused with Maoyuu Maou Yuusha, Maoyuu Maou Yuusha - Other Side of the Hill or Maoyuu 4-Koma: You're Horrible, Maou-sama!, which are all awful in comparison.
Chet Rippo
Member
Well that's not confusing at all...
A Black Falcon
Member
I really dislike her argument, and that's an issue because that's basically the plot --
she convinces him to support her plan of keeping the war going, because she show all these ways that actually things would be worse for people without the demon war than they are with it. Yes, "war is good, because of X, Y, and Z (internal warfare, etc.)" is her argument... and really, it's got all kinds of holes in it. Seriously, the forever war is not the answer, there has to be a better way. But the hero? The "hero", for whatever reason (read: because this is a (harem) manga), goes for it with barely a question.
And it's not like the story gets better, either.
It just becomes harem, pretty much, or at least harem in setting if not in lots of romance antics.
From the little I read of some of the others, it seemed like basically the same story, just with other artists and such... are they actually different?
There are lots of reasons to hate on breast armor, and few decent ones to defend it.
However, that's the least of what's wrong with the Sacred Blacksmith anime, that's for sure. Yeah, her "armor" is ridiculous, but there's so much more so fundamentally wrong with the series. Particularly early on, Sacred Blacksmith is VERY sexist. The depiction of Cecily is ridiculously sexist... she's always trying to protect people, but she's utterly useless, and has to get rescued by the guy every. single. time. It's painful stuff. And she's supposed to be a knight, too. It's completely pathetic, and it's not necessarily a source material issue either -- the manga is also sexist, but it's not as bad as the anime, and Cecily's a bit more competent in the early parts.
The series does get a bit more bearable later on, and Cecily gets more competent, but the constant protection never entirely goes away...
Pancakes are good, but waffles are even better...
What, you even dislike the comedy episodes in the first season? There were quite a few. "Fumoffu is the only thing I liked in the franchise" people usually seem to forget that...
One issue with them is that while some OSes have a standard representation (ME, XP, etc.), others don't. Some, like Vista, have a couple of completely different Vista-tans; others have even less of a standard (is there a standard DOS-tan?). Because until recently it was all fanart, they don't always look the same.
Good riddance.
... Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I don't think that rightly complaining about how horribly sexist Saber's portrayal is is really white knighting her...
I mean, you say at the end that it's "her actual character" that's your problem, but the issue with her character is that they designed her in such a ridiculously sexist manner, yes? I mean, that is at the core of the problem. You're right though, Shirou's worse, but Saber definitely enables him way, way too much.
I don't think I'd agree, but I do think WinME is so badly misunderstood... she's not a bad OS. she just crashes too often. I used ME as my main OS for almost 5 1/2 years, though, and liked it overall. So yeah, poor ME-tan... not everyone thinks your OS is bad.
She's keeping the war going in order to buy time to enact widespread agricultural and educational reform in order to give the winter nations self-sustainability once the war ends. At the same time, she's controlling the ebb and flow of the war by leading both sides of the conflict in order to minimize causalities on both sides without rousing suspicion.
I don't see how you can disagree with her methods, this is the best solution possible. For a manga that parodies JRPGs, her solution is very logical and well conceived.
I don't see how you can disagree with her methods, this is the best solution possible. For a manga that parodies JRPGs, her solution is very logical and well conceived.
Like the parent of a problem child.I don't think I'd agree, but I do think WinME is so badly misunderstood... she's not a bad OS. she just crashes too often. I used ME as my main OS for almost 5 1/2 years, though, and liked it overall. So yeah, poor ME-tan... not everyone thinks your OS is bad.
Ah, I had thought the comp ace version was considered the "official" one, but sadly it appears you are correct. Now all my hype is gone.
Wait, a certain site says that the Comp Ace one is considered the official one. And the LN art is really cool too, if they decide to go with that instead of the manga artstyle. Hype restored!
A Black Falcon
Member
"I have all this awesome magic (not really, but it seems like that to Hero and the other humans) futuristic (modern-ish, for us) technology that you don't, and just out of the goodness of my heart I'm going to keep a war going so I can teach you all it so that the world can be a better place later once I allow the war to end
Also, I just looked at it a bit to remind myself (because it's been a while), and does the Demon Queen ever
elaborate on who started the war? I mean, because that's an important point. She says "opinions differ on who started it", but doesn't explain herself, and he doesn't push much on the issue. However, that's one of the most important questions here -- who started it? If the humans really did start it, she'd be more justified than if she did. I know, she says that the demons were fighting themselves, and the war unified them, and yes that is a classic reason for starting wars (distract your people and unite them against your common foes), but wars like those are rarely good ones to say the least... this series' defense of such things is something I find very unpleasant.
Like, World War II ended the Great Depression! And also, despite 70 million plus deaths, it didn't take long at all for the population to recover and get above where it had been. And in the aftermath, both of the major enemy nations became out allies, too. So that war was maybe a good thing, right? ... Somehow I doubt sane people would agree with that statement, obviously.
Like, World War II ended the Great Depression! And also, despite 70 million plus deaths, it didn't take long at all for the population to recover and get above where it had been. And in the aftermath, both of the major enemy nations became out allies, too. So that war was maybe a good thing, right? ... Somehow I doubt sane people would agree with that statement, obviously.
But anyway, returning to that page...
I know that war does restart economies, sometimes. See World War II, in the US at least. But starting, or continuing, a war, just to supposedly restart an economy? That's as likely to fail as it is to succeed. Unless you're Palpatine or something, you're probably not going to be able to completely control both sides of a war. And seriously, the idea that she's this very modern economist, while everyone else apparently is Fantasy Medieval... where did she find all this stuff? I know, it's anime/manga, you're not supposed to think about it, but I do think about that kind of thing. Maybe she is from the future, who knows, that WOULD explain it, but it'd still be a silly, very manga explanation.
So, combining the points from the two above paragraphs, this manga's answer to the problem of how to justify the war is to
create a world so perfectly broken that her war solution actually looks like a good one, but that's obviously a creation done to justify the concept, it's not something entirely plausible on its own. It's just so convenient that the southern nations are so broken that only this war can keep them from complete collapse, isn't it... etc.
The first chapter also brings up stupid conspiracy garbage, about how the human governments would keep the war going through skulduggery because they need this war for their societies. I know that that kind of thing's a common plotline in stories, but I'm always very skeptical about how plausible it is. I'm not one to believe in conspiracy theories. And anyway, even considering that, her all-bleak portrayal isn't inevitable, some of those things could possibly end in a happier direction if people worked towards it.
On that note, basically the plot here is
She's Palpatine, with knowledge of the future on top of that, except she's here to do good by causing limited wars.
I chose to use ME throughout XP's life, and went from ME to Vista, and I've never regretted it.
Native DOS gaming is good!
Chet Rippo
Member
Mysterious Girlfriend X 10
Worst haircut ever. And with the new haircut, she has also gone insane. Tsubaki is falling right into her trap too. Can't wait to see what the next episode will bring, but I'll have to.
You goddamn two-timing drool drinker!
Dressing up in your old middle school uniform, totally not creepy at all...
ABF, you're really missing some key ideas and I'd elaborate but I'm not macodin and I can't keep up with your level of verbosity.
The gist is that:
The gist is that:
- She wants to end the war
- She recognizes that the war is all that's keeping her country united and the winter kingdoms alive
- The winter kingdoms are dependent on the economic support of the central kingdoms, which they only receive because the winter kingdoms are fighting a neverending war against the demons
- In order to make sure the aftermath of the war doesn't kill everyone off, she's going to give the winter kingdoms the means to sustain themselves
- She probably also has some plan to unite the demon nations but currently her focus is on the winter kingdoms
- Her whole MO is saving the world through agricultural advancement and educational reform. Considering the usual amount of unbelievable stuff in manga this is not really that farfetched at all. While her knowledge may be anachronistic, the way she's applying it is completely rational. There are HUNDREDS of supposedly super geniuses in anime/manga who never come close to displaying the level of rationale she does, because their stories are ultimately about people beating each other up. That you would complain about the way she's applying her very realistic knowledge and understanding of anthropology, sociology, agricultural science and economic theory is just ludicrous.
- It's a parody of JRPGs, where most of the time the hero saves the world by killing thousands of people/things indiscriminately. She's subverting the typical "might makes right" that characterizes so many game stories.
- She recognizes that the war is all that's keeping her country united and the winter kingdoms alive
- The winter kingdoms are dependent on the economic support of the central kingdoms, which they only receive because the winter kingdoms are fighting a neverending war against the demons
- In order to make sure the aftermath of the war doesn't kill everyone off, she's going to give the winter kingdoms the means to sustain themselves
- She probably also has some plan to unite the demon nations but currently her focus is on the winter kingdoms
- Her whole MO is saving the world through agricultural advancement and educational reform. Considering the usual amount of unbelievable stuff in manga this is not really that farfetched at all. While her knowledge may be anachronistic, the way she's applying it is completely rational. There are HUNDREDS of supposedly super geniuses in anime/manga who never come close to displaying the level of rationale she does, because their stories are ultimately about people beating each other up. That you would complain about the way she's applying her very realistic knowledge and understanding of anthropology, sociology, agricultural science and economic theory is just ludicrous.
- It's a parody of JRPGs, where most of the time the hero saves the world by killing thousands of people/things indiscriminately. She's subverting the typical "might makes right" that characterizes so many game stories.
Yes, this certainly was a problem when I was looking for SnowLeopard tan, since OS X seems to have even less standardisation compared to the Windows side. Then again she'd probably not want anything to do with my desktop after seeing [post=36940045]this[/post]
Next episode certainly delivers the "goods" ho ho ho ho ho.
A Black Falcon
Member
Alright, I understand that now, but I think this part of my criticism of the series (quoted below) explains why I don't think that those explanations are something that I could like or accept as a decent plot. They explain the story, but don't excuse the concept... not really.
That is,A Black Falcon said:
It's basically a world setup created to justify a forever war situation that in reality would be almost certainly unjustifiable.
chickdigger802
Banned
Not much anime left.
Fuck it. Narag got me interested.
Gonna marathon FSN VN after work.
wooo...
How long is it?
Fuck it. Narag got me interested.
Gonna marathon FSN VN after work.
wooo...
How long is it?
What do you mean by justify?
Do you mean that you dislike the fact that the world was made solely for the sake of this plot?
Or do you mean that the war is morally indefensible?
With the former, pretty much every story setting is crafted in order to enable to plot. For example, the world of 1984 is, I feel, impossible to arrive at, but I cannot disagree with Orwell that once the whole Oceania/Eurasia/Eastasia system is in place, it would be completely and totally self sustaining.
With the latter, the manga never, to my knowledge, attempts to say "this is right" or "this is wrong". Instead, it is saying "this is the situation and these are the reasons why it is happening". As you no doubt know, there are many examples in history of wars being rejuvenating forces, as well as wars started in order to unite a populace. The manga is only using those kinds of situations as its setting, not trying to justify them. If you think so, you're probably reading too much into it.
The story as a whole is very morally sound, since the protagonists are always aiming for a better world while the antagonists are trying to maintain the unfortunate status quo.
Do you mean that you dislike the fact that the world was made solely for the sake of this plot?
Or do you mean that the war is morally indefensible?
With the former, pretty much every story setting is crafted in order to enable to plot. For example, the world of 1984 is, I feel, impossible to arrive at, but I cannot disagree with Orwell that once the whole Oceania/Eurasia/Eastasia system is in place, it would be completely and totally self sustaining.
With the latter, the manga never, to my knowledge, attempts to say "this is right" or "this is wrong". Instead, it is saying "this is the situation and these are the reasons why it is happening". As you no doubt know, there are many examples in history of wars being rejuvenating forces, as well as wars started in order to unite a populace. The manga is only using those kinds of situations as its setting, not trying to justify them. If you think so, you're probably reading too much into it.
The story as a whole is very morally sound, since the protagonists are always aiming for a better world while the antagonists are trying to maintain the unfortunate status quo.
Pretty long.
As in the word count (all three routes in mind) apparently exceeds the LOTR trilogy.
Have fun!
chickdigger802
Banned
and me being one of the dumb fucks that listen to all the VA.
Woo.
Have modern VN figured out widescreen yet?
More like it's 1.5 times longer than War and Peace.
All I know is that there's a lot of words and it's bloated as fuck. Took me a few months to get through it (reading it on and off again).
Heaven's Feel was a pretty good read though,
. Wasn't a big fan of the other two, though UBW had copious amounts of Rin so that's always good.
Heaven's Feel was a pretty good read though,
sex scenes aside
That's actually something I really like about it, since it doesn't break the war down into simple terms of RIGHT and WRONG, it's more ambiguous than that. And of course the setting is created to carry the story! Why wouldn't it be?
I've wondered this before... why is there one Mr. Ōtsuka but two Hayao Miyazaki in that shot? Were they hinting at something with that? Is he a twin brother? A clone? That would explain how much workload he was (they were) able to take!
Double the neglect.
Yes, you were right, and it only more people were not blinded by the potential quality that Koike and Yamamoto might have provided, we would not have suffered like G did.
But... At least I'm not Narag:
- Status