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[Neff]

Lol no. Good luck finding one

It'll be a ludicrously expensive niche peripheral created solely for a console which is notoriously difficult to obtain. I don't think it'll be too tough to pick up a PSVR2.

 

[taizuke]

Rez, Tetris Effect, Thumper and Polybius are all great. I'm sure Moose Life is too.

Good to know.

RE4 VR was funded and published by Oculus, right? It could remain a Quest exclusive a bit longer (or forever?).

Didn't know this. Bummer. Hopefully Sony can work out a deal at some point and have a version made for PSVR2. After all, RE 4 continues to be the most ported game in existence.

 

[ManaByte]

No where does it say it needs patches to be BC.
Only updates for higher graphical quality.

Oculus Quest 2
Oculus Quest 2 supports all games and software made for the first-generation model, and existing titles can be updated to support higher graphical quality on Quest 2. It also supports Oculus Link, which allows the headset to be used with Oculus Rift-compatible software on a PC.

He was talking about the Rift games on PC. They needed to be updated to support the new headsets that didn't have the stationary camera based tracking. Please know what you're talking about before trying to call someone out.

 

[kuncol02]

Sony literally says you don't need an external camera, but you just keep ignoring official information. So no light needed.

But PSVR games require camera feed they display during "calibration" phase.

Original Oculus rift CV1 works with an external camera (or two or more), the same way that psvr (except for the infrared light) and all oculus games are compatible with the "new" insider tracking for the Oculus Rifts S and Quest series without update the games... So tell me why this is different for psvr 1/2.

That's not about technical way headsets are working, but about how games were designed. Oculus games were designed with API that didn't changed basically at all. It was transparent for games, but PSVR games are expecting camera feed they will not receive.

 

[Loxus]

He was talking about the Rift games on PC. They needed to be updated to support the new headsets that didn't have the stationary camera based tracking. Please know what you're talking about before trying to call someone out.

You can utilize the Virtual Desktop wireless PCVR option or utilize Oculus Link, no patches required.

You can link a source that says it requires patches, cause I haven't found anything that says you need patches for BC.

 

[Loxus]

But PSVR games require camera feed they display during "calibration" phase.

That's not about technical way headsets are working, but about how games were designed. Oculus games were designed with API that didn't changed basically at all. It was transparent for games, but PSVR games are expecting camera feed they will not receive.

PSVR 2 has built-in cameras for that reason. Which part of that don't you understand?

 

[ManaByte]

You can utilize the Virtual Desktop wireless PCVR option or utilize Oculus Link, no patches required.

You can link a source that says it requires patches, cause I haven't found anything that says you need patches for BC.

Dude I fucking own PC VR and PSVR and I'll be buying both a Quest 3 AND PSVR2 as soon as they're available, and games made for headsets that used stationary cameras on the PC (like the original Rift) did need small patches to be updated to be compatible with newer headsets like the Quest that had headset cameras for tracking. This literally has NOTHING to do with Virtual Desktop and you posting that is proof you have no fucking clue what you're arguing about. Welcome to ignore.

 

[kuncol02]

PSVR 2 has built-in cameras for that reason. Which part of that don't you understand?

And how the fuck camera on headset will show where player is standing? Will they add big mirror to every PSVR2?

 

[ManaByte]

And how the fuck camera on headset will show where player is standing? Will they add big mirror to every PSVR2?

The guy doesn't know how VR works. Just move on.

The games that used the camera in that way would need to be updated.

 

[MasterCornholio]

As part of the leak there was a rumor that talked about remastered PSVR games. It makes sense after reading though some of the comments. I guess it might be a lot of work to get BC to work so the easier solution would be to remaster some PSVR games.

Although if they do this I hope they offer free upgrades for owners of said games.

 

[kuncol02]

The guy doesn't know how VR works. Just move on.

The games that used the camera in that way would need to be updated.

In theory they could try to render fake camera using tracking data from headset and controllers, but that's lot's of work and I'm not sure if it would be even worth it. Especially that new controllers will be totally different and every game would be super wonky to play just because of that.

 

[Loxus]

And how the fuck camera on headset will show where player is standing? Will they add big mirror to every PSVR2?

How do you think Oculus Quest 2 does it?

 

[ManaByte]

As part of the leak there was a rumor that talked about remastered PSVR games. It makes sense after reading though some of the comments. I guess it might be a lot of work to get BC to work so the easier solution would be to remaster some PSVR games.

Although if they do this I hope they offer free upgrades for owners of said games.

Again, there are some games that can easily be updated for the PSVR2 tracking as they already have versions of those games on other platforms that use the same style of tracking. Those could be BC with a simple patch, wouldn't even need a remaster or native update. Stuff like Vader Immortal, Arkham VR, Waking Dead, etc. Anything that was cross-platform from the PC should be easy to update and that's a large chunk of the library.

Other games that were designed specifically for PSVR that use the camera to look for the player (like Kinect) would need more extensive updating to work.

 

[mrcroket]

Actually the Oculus games did receive patches when the new headsets came out. So the PSVR games could receive patches, but that would probably make them native PS5 games.

I'm not pretty sure about that but when I bought rift s all of my rift games where automatically compatibles, thats include some old games that I doubt were still updating... and some "not legally" purchased games. Also some games shows the old rift controllers and not new ones.

 

[ethomaz]

Isn't BC hugely important, especially with a more niche product like this? I think Sony absolutely should have talked about BC in its initial reveal. Hopefully their silence does not mean that BC is not there. PSVR2 needs BC

Is it?
BC is a nice to have feature but means nothing to most gamers.

Gamers buy consoles and accessories to play new games... not BC.

 

[EverydayBeast]

They’ll figure it out I think every psvr 2 customer wants to play new games that kills the bc crowd a little bit but keep your psvr 1 headset if you want to play those games.

 

[Lognor]

Is it?
BC is a nice to have feature but means nothing to most gamers.

Gamers buy consoles and accessories to play new games... not BC.

Yeah, clearly BC is hugely important. AS has been shown by the Xbox Series and PS5, both of which have BC and that news was met with a ton of positive press. The fact that there are countless people playing their PS4 and Xbox One games on their new consoles. Yes, it's important.

It sounds like you might just be preemptively damage controlling in case the PSVR2 does not have BC. Because it is important. I am a bit surprised that anyone would argue otherwise.

And again, this is an extremely niche product, making BC even more important than it was for the PS5 or Xbox Series.

 

[ethomaz]

Yeah, clearly BC is hugely important. AS has been shown by the Xbox Series and PS5, both of which have BC and that news was met with a ton of positive press. The fact that there are countless people playing their PS4 and Xbox One games on their new consoles. Yes, it's important.

It sounds like you might just be preemptively damage controlling in case the PSVR2 does not have BC. Because it is important. I am a bit surprised that anyone would argue otherwise.

And again, this is an extremely niche product, making BC even more important than it was for the PS5 or Xbox Series.

Where are the data showing "The fact that there are countless people playing their PS4 on their new consoles" please.
Nah it was just a marketing strategy used by MS to cover up their weakness and so a minor vocal part of the gamers (most not even PlayStation gamers) started to talk about the lack BC on PS4 and put pressure on PS5.

BC was never related to a console success... BC is niche feature... it is good to have but it doesn't make any difference to players that are buying new consoles... if you are only playing BC games on your new console I question why you brought a new console at all? To use as a decorative item in your living room?

People buy new consoles to play new games.

 

[Lognor]

Where are the data showing "The fact that there are countless people playing their PS4 on their new consoles" please.
Nah it was just a marketing strategy used by MS to cover up their weakness and so a minor vocal part of the gamers (most not even PlayStation gamers) started to talk about the lack BC on PS4 and put pressure on PS5.

BC was never related to a console success... BC is niche feature... it is good to have but it doesn't make any difference to players that are buying new consoles... if you are only playing BC games on your new console I question why you brought a new console at all? To use as a decorative item in your living room?

People buy new consoles to play new games.

Nah. That is not true. Don't forget, the PS5 has BC too! LOL! Just not nearly as robust as what the Xbox Series has.

I do not think BC is a niche feature. If it was Sony and Microsoft would not be spending time on last gen games to take advantage of the new consoles. I've seen so many people talking about the PS4 games they've been playing on their PS5 the last several months, probably due to the lackluster releases on PS5 in the second half of 2021. If BC was not there it would not be pretty. So yes, BC is important.

And even if BC was niche, don't forget that VR is niche! And in order for a niche product to succeed it needs all the help it can get. And BC would be huge for PSVR2. But I'm guessing by your tone that it's not going to be there. Or there is evidence to suggest that. Why else would you be so adamant that BC is niche and people don't use it?

Of course people buy new consoles to play new games. But what if there are no new games releasing that are of interest (possibly like the PS5 in the second half of 2021)? That is where BC comes in and it does matter. You yourself were just playing Gran Turismo Sport, a PS4 game on your PS5! So it does matter to you, at least a bit.

 

[ethomaz]

Nah. That is not true. Don't forget, the PS5 has BC too! LOL! Just not nearly as robust as what the Xbox Series has.

I do not think BC is a niche feature. If it was Sony and Microsoft would not be spending time on last gen games to take advantage of the new consoles. I've seen so many people talking about the PS4 games they've been playing on their PS5 the last several months, probably due to the lackluster releases on PS5 in the second half of 2021. If BC was not there it would not be pretty. So yes, BC is important.

And even if BC was niche, don't forget that VR is niche! And in order for a niche product to succeed it needs all the help it can get. And BC would be huge for PSVR2. But I'm guessing by your tone that it's not going to be there. Or there is evidence to suggest that. Why else would you be so adamant that BC is niche and people don't use it?

Of course people buy new consoles to play new games. But what if there are no new games releasing that are of interest (possibly like the PS5 in the second half of 2021)? That is where BC comes in and it does matter. You yourself were just playing Gran Turismo Sport, a PS4 game on your PS5! So it does matter to you, at least a bit.

Yes PS5 has BC too... so you want call me fanboy for criticizing something my console doesn't have

Marketed mindset played a big part of the BC feature.
PS4 didn't have BC and was very successful.
Vita have BC and was well... lets forget.

About VR2... if Sony can get the players to port their games and release frequently first-party VR games you will not even remember if it has BC with PSVR or not.

Depending on BC to build a platform is already a failure from start.
After all people want PSVR2 to play GT7, Village, Half-Life:A, etc...

 

[SLB1904]

Depending on BC to build a platform is already a failure from start.

facts

 

[cyberheater]

How do you think Oculus Quest 2 does it?

PSVR1 games are outside in tracking using a camera.
PSVR2 is using inside out tracking using cameras on the headset.

There would have to be some sort of translation layer that would have to convert motion that the PSVR2 system generates into something an emulated PSVR1 system could understand.
None of that is easy or trivial. I can't see how that could be done unless it's done on a game by game base with custom patching. Good luck with that.

 

[ManaByte]

PSVR1 games are outside in tracking using a camera.
PSVR2 is using inside out tracking using cameras on the headset.

There would have to be some sort of translation layer that would have to convert motion that the PSVR2 system generates into something an emulated PSVR1 system could understand.
None of that is easy or trivial. I can't see how that could be done unless it's done on a game by game base with custom patching. Good luck with that.

Finally someone posting in this thread who understands the different VR technologies and how PSVR and PSVR2 are drastically different.

 

[Loxus]

PSVR1 games are outside in tracking using a camera.
PSVR2 is using inside out tracking using cameras on the headset.

There would have to be some sort of translation layer that would have to convert motion that the PSVR2 system generates into something an emulated PSVR1 system could understand.
None of that is easy or trivial. I can't see how that could be done unless it's done on a game by game base with custom patching. Good luck with that.

So how is the Oculus Quest 2 doing it all fine?

 

[cyberheater]

So how is the Oculus Quest 2 doing it all fine?

Because that's how the Quest works. It's not trying to emulate anything.
For PSVR2 to be backward compatible with PSVR1 games it would have to emulate how the PS4 "sees" the headset and motion controllers. That would require an addition layer of software. Nothing easy about that.

 

[R6Rider]

Games that already have a version using Inside out tracking will probably just get a PS5/PSVR2 updated version while others might get full on new versions. Many games probably won't be playable on PSVR2 especially the games where the dev is no longer around.

It's not a simple case of PS4 game working on PS5, as some people think.

 

[Lognor]

Yes PS5 has BC too... so you want call me fanboy for criticizing something my console doesn't have

Marketed mindset played a big part of the BC feature.
PS4 didn't have BC and was very successful.
Vita have BC and was well... lets forget.

About VR2... if Sony can get the players to port their games and release frequently first-party VR games you will not even remember if it has BC with PSVR or not.

Depending on BC to build a platform is already a failure from start.
After all people want PSVR2 to play GT7, Village, Half-Life:A, etc...

We're already talking about a HUGE cost of entry with the PSVR2. You need a PSVR2 which will cost you at least $400. You need a PS5. That's another $500. And now you're telling me all those PSVR games are not going to be compatible? That is a huge negative. There is no other way to spin it. If PSVR2 does not have BC that is a major blow.

 

[SLB1904]

So how is the Oculus Quest 2 doing it all fine?

trust me you don't want backward compatibility. prey for patches

 

[ethomaz]

We're already talking about a HUGE cost of entry with the PSVR2. You need a PSVR2 which will cost you at least $400. You need a PS5. That's another $500. And now you're telling me all those PSVR games are not going to be compatible? That is a huge negative. There is no other way to spin it. If PSVR2 does not have BC that is a major blow.

Probably negative to you.
I'm only looking for PSVR2 games being compatible with PSVR2.
That is what made it worth $400-500.

BTW PSVR and PSVR2 doesn't work similar in any way.

 

[Ceadeus]

Capcom need to announce RE8 to psvr2

 

[SLB1904]

We're already talking about a HUGE cost of entry with the PSVR2. You need a PSVR2 which will cost you at least $400. You need a PS5. That's another $500. And now you're telling me all those PSVR games are not going to be compatible? That is a huge negative. There is no other way to spin it. If PSVR2 does not have BC that is a major blow.

dude i have psvr. and i didnt finish one single game because most of my experience was horrible, majority of the games are so low resolution, and the limitations are so obvious. as soon i start a game that i liked i stop playing straight away because i knew psvr2 was coming, and in my opinion with the small library i hoping those games will get a native port to psvr2. backward compatibility isn't enough

Capcom need to announce RE8 to psvr2

every resident evil game really


look at this. works so well

 

[CrustyBritches]

It was known it was BC from the day Cerny revealed the specs.

It's been known since August 2019 when Komachi leaked the GFXCLK states that included a 911MHz and 800MHz mode. It was Sony who muddied the waters with the vague comments they were making about BC and their certification process.

 

[Loxus]

Probably negative to you.
I'm only looking for PSVR2 games being compatible with PSVR2.
That is what made it worth $400-500.

BTW PSVR and PSVR2 doesn't work similar in any way.

How though?
The PSVR 2 Sense controller uses a tracking ring.
Tracking: The VR controller is tracked by the new VR headset through a tracking ring across the bottom of the controller.

We don't know if this tracking ring doubles as a LED light. We don't know if the headset itself has a LED light.

Not to mention the PS5 HD Camera features dual wide-angle lenses.

 

[ethomaz]

How though?
The PSVR 2 Sense controller uses a tracking ring.
Tracking: The VR controller is tracked by the new VR headset through a tracking ring across the bottom of the controller.

We don't know if this tracking ring doubles as a LED light. We don't know if the headset itself has a LED light.

Not to mention the PS5 HD Camera has features dual wide-angle lenses.

Hum... I agree I said they don't work similar.

 

[RaySoft]

Compatibility problems would be down to physical buttons. But I think the PSVR2 has even more buttons than PSVR?
Tracking shouldn't be a problem since that would be handled with a compatibility layer in the API.

 

[R6Rider]

Compatibility problems would be down to physical buttons. But I think the PSVR2 has even more buttons than PSVR?
Tracking shouldn't be a problem since that would be handled with a compatibility layer in the API.

PSVR2 Sense controllers actually have less buttons, but since they do have analog sticks there's isn't a need for doubling the face buttons like on the Moves.

 

[RaySoft]

PSVR2 Sense controllers actually have less buttons, but since they do have analog sticks there's isn't a need for doubling the face buttons like on the Moves.

Yeah, I thought so. In that case there shouldn't be a problem allowing compatibility. It will require some work ofc, but for such a "niche" market compared to regular games, they really should double down on it.

 

[Notabueno]

Parts of tracking system in PSVR was baked into games. How do you want to simulate PS camera with inside out tracking of controllers? They could try to render data required for old tracking with data of new system, but that would be really wonky experience with totally broken calibration.


I don't think that's lack of good will. It's technically really hard to do. Especially if they want to achieve smooth seamless console experience with it.

There's nothing easier, because you're thinking about the framework to track data, not the data tracked which just has to be configured for another tracking system.

There are people doing way crazier shit with Vorpx for example ie. that can "hook" into any flat screen game camera and turn it into VR. That's because it really is as easy as porting the virtual camera and it's tracking system to a new one.

 

[Romulus]

I hope so, PSVR1's library is underrated. Alot of people overlooked it because it was the "VR bad/dead" years, and it actually came through outside of the technical issues with tracking.

 

[Lognor]

Probably negative to you.
I'm only looking for PSVR2 games being compatible with PSVR2.
That is what made it worth $400-500.

BTW PSVR and PSVR2 doesn't work similar in any way.

Negative to EVERYONE. You cannot spin this. Spending $1000 and your back catalog is not compatible. Please tell me how this is positive to anyone? I can afford it and it's still negative to me. Very negative.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

It WILL be BC !

This why API/WRAPPERS exists: you don’t bother about the hardware behind.
Also "Nothing to say" is one more hint...

 

[Lognor]

dude i have psvr. and i didnt finish one single game because most of my experience was horrible, majority of the games are so low resolution, and the limitations are so obvious. as soon i start a game that i liked i stop playing straight away because i knew psvr2 was coming, and in my opinion with the small library i hoping those games will get a native port to psvr2. backward compatibility isn't enough


every resident evil game really


look at this. works so well

From what I've read, most people were pleased with the PSVR. I understand these games did not live up to your standards, and sure a native port is always better than BC, but you gotta pay for those native ports. BC is free if you own those games. A patch would suffice for most people. This is going to be very expensive. And I'll bet now that it does worse than the PSVR in total sales when all is said and done. Mark it down!

 

[SLB1904]

A patch would suffice for most people.

thats what im saying lol

 

[Lognor]

thats what im saying lol

So are we talking about the same thing? I'm saying PSVR games should work on PSVR2 and maybe some of those games would be patched. Kind of like Microsoft's efforts in their BC program. But if those PSVR games don't work on PSVR that's a big miss.

 

[SLB1904]

But if those PSVR games don't work on PSVR that's a big miss.

first of all, there is no way psvr games will work without developer input, and if they patch their games I'm pretty sure they will touch the graphics and performance.

 

[CamHostage]

There's nothing easier, because you're thinking about the framework to track data, not the data tracked which just has to be configured for another tracking system.

There are people doing way crazier shit with Vorpx for example ie. that can "hook" into any flat screen game camera and turn it into VR. That's because it really is as easy as porting the virtual camera and it's tracking system to a new one.

VorpX is not "way crazier shit", IMO, it's a rather understandable modification of what's existing into a new display. This is transposing one "camera" (what would usually be your monitor) into two for a stereoscopic image (where available; I believe stereoscopic "3D" is still a common aspect of the visual API for popular 3D engines even though 3D monitors aren't around much; stereoscopy is only available in VorpX for games with that internal support,) and it's transcribing motion data from the headset to work as what would have been mouselook data. (I'm not sure if VorpX adds additional modification to the game for roll or yaw? From the videos, it seems like it can simulate a bit the perspective shifts of your body in "3D space" but I cannot tell if it's doing that through just how zoomed/cropped it is and how well the patch accesses the visual API? It doesn't fully control the viewpoint in even games patched specifically for compatibility.)



(This guy's feed is jerky, VorpX is actually smooth, but this shows how it works pretty well otherwise.)

VorpX is taking what exists and rewriting it via hacks and good-enough tricks for VR (and according to impressions of it, it does it well enough to be enjoyable for what it is, but it is not a substitute for proper VR where you can get it.)

That's a different challenge from taking the way outside-in way PSVR senses movement and translating that to inside-out sensor data in PS VR2.

 

[Notabueno]

VorpX is not "way crazier shit", IMO, it's a rather understandable modification of what's existing into a new display. This is transposing one "camera" (what would usually be your monitor) into two for a stereoscopic image (where available; I believe stereoscopic "3D" is still a common aspect of the visual API for popular 3D engines even though 3D monitors aren't around much; stereoscopy is only available in VorpX for games with that internal support,) and it's transcribing motion data from the headset to work as what would have been mouselook data. (I'm not sure if VorpX adds additional modification to the game for roll or yaw? From the videos, it seems like it can simulate a bit the perspective shifts of your body in "3D space" but I cannot tell if it's doing that through just how zoomed/cropped it is and how well the patch accesses the visual API? It doesn't fully control the viewpoint in even games patched specifically for compatibility.)



(This guy's feed is jerky, VorpX is actually smooth, but this shows how it works pretty well otherwise.)

VorpX is taking what exists and rewriting it via hacks and good-enough tricks for VR (and according to impressions of it, it does it well enough to be enjoyable for what it is, but it is not a substitute for proper VR where you can get it.)

That's a different challenge from taking the way outside-in way PSVR senses movement and translating that to inside-out sensor data in PS VR2.

Well you broke down VorpX and I think that what it does is way crazier that translating any tracking system, outside-in for example, to inside-out tracking, because this is not where the difficulty occurs.

 

[VolticArchangel]

They are giving away VR games with PS+ now right? This seems like "announce it at the HMD reveal to generate hype" kind of thing.

If not, then Jimbo is planning for his new yacht, like Chris Roberts.

 

[ethomaz]

Negative to EVERYONE. You cannot spin this. Spending $1000 and your back catalog is not compatible. Please tell me how this is positive to anyone? I can afford it and it's still negative to me. Very negative.

If it is not negative to me then it is already not to EVERYONE lol
There is no spin in gamers not giving a shit to BC.

You buy a device to play new games.
The act to buy a $400 device to play OLD games is already a negative in my book.... that device was born to fail.

PS4 didn't have BC. Was that negative?
Switch didn't have BC. Was that negative?
PS3 had BC. Was that positive?
PS5 has BC. Was that positive?

 

[CamHostage]

Well you broke down VorpX and I think that what it does is way crazier that translating any tracking system, outside-in for example, to inside-out tracking, because this is not where the difficulty occurs.

How so? Inside-out and outside-in tracking is fundamentally different. One is simply watching a video feed and making some calculations as to what you should see, the other is a mounted camera (or series of cameras) corroborating what the viewing angle is of what you should be seeing.

compared to

There are some users who actually prefer CV1 to the current Rift, and although the modern inside-out tracking seems "better" in how people think VR works, there are still advantages to positional tracking in the outside-in method.

Mirror, Mirror on the Wall, Which One Has the Best (or Worst) Tracking of Them All?

Investigators behind a new scientific study have measured tracking accuracy using different hmds and controllers, so this isn't any autodidactic YouTuber expressing a subjective opinion. Instead - according to RoadToVR's translation of the original German paper - investigators did this: As...

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