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News Sony’s 2021 TV lineup runs Google TV and fully embraces HDMI 2.1

kyliethicc

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Sounds like a fantastic set in so many ways, glad to see the native contrast and contrast with local dimming is back to 2018/2019 levels, the upscaling, general processing and motion sound amazing. The 2.1/VRR caveats are pretty annoying if you are buying the TV primarily for gaming, hopefully they'll have it all worked out next year.

Outside of 2.1/VRR support I only have two major issues with it, 750 nits on a 10% window is quite disappointing compared to 2017-2019 models, 900+ nits for HDR really makes a difference, now it has less of the general advantages LCD can have over OLED (10% window isn't any different than latest OLEDs now) but with all the same (massive) disadvantages vs OLED.

Maybe you could say it matches OLED in that regard so its not too bad but the real issue is 24 zones, even if the dimming algorithm is improved I still think (Will need to go see one in a shop soon now that I can) that will cause a lot of clouding in challenging HDR content and I'd say they've gone too far in trying to save money on the backlight.

We used to rip the piss out of LG for having 6, 12 and 24 zoned FALD backlights because HDR looked like crap on them, now that was also due to the IPS panels in fairness, but its still a big problem when you are trying to make things as bright in HDR. Maybe thats part of the reason for dropping the light output, to curb those problems. I'm guessing its more to have parity with OLED/wind down 4K LCD/save money though.

Of course this set is fantastic if you are coming from much older sets, edge-lit sets, recent entry level sets, but if you see this set next to something that outputs 1000, 1200 or even 1500 nits you'd know why dropping down to 700 from 1000 (in many older 9 series models) this is very a big deal for HDR.

At this point I say go OLED all the way if you have the dosh, because there are hardly any advantages for going LCD anymore. Although maybe the X95J will still have the 48 zones and higher brightness output (or more) of the previous years 900/950 series, do we know much about that model yet?
Well the X90J gets brighter in every measure than the X900H. It gets brighter than my TV and my TV already gets pretty fucking bright lol.

The X95J should be similar in brightness to the X950H, which is noticeably brighter than the X90J.

Idk about the local dimming zones. No one seems to have an X95J yet.

And yeah I definitely see lots of people going for the LG CX/C1 OLEDs instead, as long as the prices are similar.
 
Apr 6, 2015
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I should be picking up my X90J within the hour. Excited to try it out. I know the LG CX is a superior tv but I just couldn't pull the trigger on $1800. I'm worried about burn in, and Best Buy's warranty appears to be the only one that covers burn in which brings the price back up to $1700 before tax.

If I don't like it then I will simply return it. I'm not 100% sure on my purchase but either way it'll be an upgrade to my TCL 5 Series QLED.
 
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dotnotbot

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(X90J)24 zones,higher input lag and a higher price=wth is Sony doing?
- Local dimming got a higher rating though and contrast is improved. I think blooming will be the same on both.
- 3 ms higher input lag is completely irrelevant and X90J has a co-processor unlike X90H
- Higher price is typical inflated launch price. All brands do the same.
 
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HeisenbergFX4

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How much better is the OLED v LCD thing for you?

Nothing beats an OLED picture for movies or gaming but burn in really does bother me so I dont game on it plus I tend to leave my TV on a lot with static images (mainly a stock ticker) so the LCD is better suited.

I have mentioned it before but I grabbed a Hisense H9G 65" TV at some point last year and that picture for watching movies was the closest thing to OLED I have seen.

It had problems though mainly buggy firmware which has probably matured since
 
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Alright maybe I’m just daft as hell but I picked up a X90J and I can’t get 4K/120 working on ps5 only Xbox series x. No matter what I try it just stays at 60hz.
 
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Kuranghi

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Alright maybe I’m just daft as hell but I picked up a X90J and I can’t get 4K/120 working on ps5 only Xbox series x. No matter what I try it just stays at 60hz.

Did you change the HDMI Format setting to Enhanced?

From Sony site:
  1. Press the HOME button on the remote control.
  2. Select Settings.
  3. Select External inputs in the TV category.
  4. Select HDMI signal format and set to Enhanced format.
Maybe try using the cable you are using for the XSX to be sure its not that.

Other should weigh in here too since I don't have a 2.1 set but I don't think it changes the OS output to 4K120 even if you have the capability, but you'll at least know the 2.1 bandwidth is being used if you turn on HDR (at 2160p) and then check the HDMI information page to see if it says "HDR (RGB)" instead of "HDR (YUV422)".

edit - saw your updated post, I think thats how it will be, still do what I suggested above to check if the increased bandwidth of 2.1 is being used though.
 
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kyliethicc

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Alright maybe I’m just daft as hell but I picked up a X90J and I can’t get 4K/120 working on ps5 only Xbox series x. No matter what I try it just stays at 60hz.
Maybe check PS5 system settings too?

I think on PS5 for 120 Hz you need to select "prefer performance mode" via system settings.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

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- Local dimming got a higher rating though and contrast is improved. I think blooming will be the same on both.
- 3 ms higher input lag is completely irrelevant and X90J has a co-processor unlike X90H
- Higher price is typical inflated launch price. All brands do the same.
Blooming is not the same,it's worse,uniformity and black uniformity is also noticeably worse and anytime input lag isn't 1 to 1 with the signal sent it's noticeable. The 900H's input lag is actually lower than what a 60/120hz signal sends where the X90J is higher with both.
Price was inflated with the 900H as well and have since come and stayed down..the X90J did the same but is still higher priced than the 900H.
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

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Alright maybe I’m just daft as hell but I picked up a X90J and I can’t get 4K/120 working on ps5 only Xbox series x. No matter what I try it just stays at 60hz.
Go to screen and video,than video output and finally Enable 120 Hz Output Automatic
 

dotnotbot

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Blooming is not the same,it's worse,uniformity and black uniformity is also noticeably worse and anytime input lag isn't 1 to 1 with the signal sent it's noticeable. The 900H's input lag is actually lower than what a 60/120hz signal sends where the X90J is higher with both.
Price was inflated with the 900H as well and have since come and stayed down..the X90J did the same but is still higher priced than the 900H.

I just checked some review of 55" X90H and it has 24 zones as well. How could blooming be worse?
 
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Kuranghi

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I would like to see a side by side of X900F, X900H and X90J to see what 48 vs 32 vs 24 zones looks like and if the dimming algorithm makes up for the decrease, but the former model being in their is wishful thinking, prob no one has an X900F around to compare with the last two sets.

A comparison with X950G in the mix might still be possible but that TV is nearly twice as bright as the X90J on a real scene so probably not really a fair comparison since the camera will make the blooming look worse than it is on the 950G when you try to expose the camera for both sets.

I just checked the review of 55" X90H and it has 24 zones as well. How could blooming be worse?

Which review? I'm pretty sure its 32 zones, on an 8x4 grid.
 
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dotnotbot

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I would like to see a side by side of X900F, X900H and X90J to see what 48 vs 32 vs 24 zones looks like and if the dimming algorithm makes up for the decrease, but the former model being in their is wishful thinking, prob no one has an X900F around to compare with the last two sets.

A comparison with X950G in the mix might still be possible but that TV is nearly twice as bright as the X90J on a real scene so probably not really a fair comparison since the camera will make the blooming look worse than it is on the 950G when you try to expose the camera for both sets.



Which review? I'm pretty sure its 32 zones, on an 8x4 grid.

I think it's 32 for 65" and above. Here the reviewer counted 24 on 55":

Thanks to the LCD matrix type VA, the ANSI contrast ratio was 4918: 1. In addition, the TV has multi-zone illumination to improve black quality in dark scenes. I identified 4 zones horizontally and 6 vertically, which gives a total of 24 independent zones.


EDIT: Another review mentioning 4x6 count: https://fwd.nl/beeld/review-sony-kd-55xh9005-xh90-serie-lcd-led-tv/
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

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X90J no LD

X900H no LD


X90J LD enabled

X900H LD enabled
 

Kuranghi

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I watched this earlier, fantastic, the image processing jump is better than I expected. He was so pained at the end telling everyone to just buy the LG haha.

Imo, its a very simple guide to buying TVs for gaming on now:-

Money no object and its only for gaming?: LG G1
Money no object and its for gaming and TV/Films/Apps: Sony A90J
Money is a factor and you don't want an LCD: LG C1
Money is a factor/don't want OLED: Sony X90J

All this pre-supposes you light control your room when you play movies/games in HDR.
 
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Did you change the HDMI Format setting to Enhanced?

From Sony site:
  1. Press the HOME button on the remote control.
  2. Select Settings.
  3. Select External inputs in the TV category.
  4. Select HDMI signal format and set to Enhanced format.
Maybe try using the cable you are using for the XSX to be sure its not that.

Other should weigh in here too since I don't have a 2.1 set but I don't think it changes the OS output to 4K120 even if you have the capability, but you'll at least know the 2.1 bandwidth is being used if you turn on HDR (at 2160p) and then check the HDMI information page to see if it says "HDR (RGB)" instead of "HDR (YUV422)".

edit - saw your updated post, I think thats how it will be, still do what I suggested above to check if the increased bandwidth of 2.1 is being used though.

Maybe check PS5 system settings too?

I think on PS5 for 120 Hz you need to select "prefer performance mode" via system settings.

Go to screen and video,than video output and finally Enable 120 Hz Output Automatic

I tried all of these, and nothing. I tried both cables on both machines and only HDMI can I get 120hz to work. I can’t get the PS5 to output 120hz on anything even in 1080p but even the Series X only works on port 4.
 

Kuranghi

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I think it's 32 for 65" and above. Here the reviewer counted 24 on 55":




EDIT: Another review mentioning 4x6 count: https://fwd.nl/beeld/review-sony-kd-55xh9005-xh90-serie-lcd-led-tv/

Apart from your review there I could only find a chinese site saying the both the 55" and 65" had 32 zones. I can't post images from the site for some reason, its a few pages down from the top:


So you could be right, since all english language reviews I found that mention 32 zones are for the 65" model. I might go check in my local shop because thats intriguing.
 
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Paulxo87

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Rtings review of the X90J says it can't display a wide color gamut compared to the X900H? lol
 

Kuranghi

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X90J LD enabled

X900H LD enabled

To add to this:

X950G (48 zones in 55", ~1200 nits) LD enabled:



X900F (48 zones in 55", ~950 nits) LD enabled:



X950G was a beast (Except in 75" and 85" due to X-Wide Angle making the HDR black level garbage), if you are on a really tight budget try and get either of these two sets refurb'd/used/ex-display, you won't be disappointed.
 

Kuranghi

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Rtings review of the X90J says it can't display a wide color gamut compared to the X900H? lol

That doesn't really matter, they only mentioned it because its below a certain threshold, which many TVs are, that and nothing even uses the increased gamut yet anyway.

That shouldn't in any way affect the purchasing decision of anyone who is buying the TV for general use.

Were you looking to buy it? If not what do you own now/are planning to buy?
 
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S0ULZB0URNE

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Apart from your review there I could only find a chinese site saying the both the 55" and 65" had 32 zones. I can't post images from the site for some reason, its a few pages down from the top:


So you could be right, since all english language reviews I found that mention 32 zones are for the 65" model. I might go check in my local shop because thats intriguing.
All of the X900H models have 32 zones.
WTH Sony I know
 

Zoro7

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Ill be moving in the next couple of months, will be buying a new TV. Not sure if the new X90J is worth buying when there isn't much difference between it and last years model. I can get the X900H for £700 or so.
 
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Kuranghi

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Ill be moving in the next couple of months, will be buying a new TV. Not sure if the new X90J is worth buying when there isn't much difference between it and last years model. I can get the X900H for £700 or so.

Its absolutely worth it for the better image processing, its a much bigger step up than YoY improvements usually provide since the X900H was a step down from the 90-series 2018 and 2019 sets and they put the new processor in the X90J which is a step up over the processing in even the 2020 flagship OLED.

I assume you mean the 55"? Check out the price history for the 55XH90:


It was under £800 after a couple of months, won't be that fast this time because that was Covid factor, but I reckon by the end of July it will be under £900, maybe even lower, so just buy the X90J after you move.

edit - Also, you'll be able to find an X900H even at the end of 2021 I'm sure so it'll only be cheaper by the time you come to buy.

UK TV buying tip to detect when sets are about to disappear/go on clearance: Monitor the set you want on www.currys.co.uk, when the price changes to have .98 at the end its about to go amd when it goes to .97 then thats the clearance price. Buy it immediately then since others know this and will buy all the stock. Example:

 
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kyliethicc

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Rtings review of the X90J says it can't display a wide color gamut compared to the X900H? lol
The X90J has basically the same color gamut and volume as last years X90H.

Its not really true to say it doesn't display a wide color gamut.

Its just that the X90J measured 67% coverage of Rec2020 color gamut, and they use 70% as the minimum for that label.

The X90H was only 3% higher at exactly 70% so it was labeled as wide color by Rtings.

No one would be able to see this 3% gap in gamut with their eyes. Its a non issue.

For comparison X90J to X90H:

 

S0ULZB0URNE

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Oh and FYI some X900H users have put the X90J firmware in the X900H and are noticing it being brighter.
 

Paulxo87

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That doesn't really matter, they only mentioned it because its below a certain threshold, which many TVs are, that and nothing even uses the increased gamut yet anyway.

That shouldn't in any way affect the purchasing decision of anyone who is buying the TV for general use.

Were you looking to buy it? If not what do you own now/are planning to buy?

I already grabbed a 75"X900h for 1600. I'm beyond thrilled with the deal I got. I was just merely curious about their comments about the color gamut

I came from a 5 year old 65" samsung ku6300 4k that couldn't do HDR. sometimes I stare at my x900H in disbelief some of the content esp ps5 games look so incredible. Even older 90's movies just look fucking stellar. blacks are awesome.
 
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Kuranghi

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I already grabbed a 75"X900h for 1600. I'm beyond thrilled with the deal I got. I was just merely curious about their comments about the color gamut

I came from a 5 year old 65" samsung ku6300 4k that couldn't do HDR. sometimes I stare at my x900H in disbelief some of the content esp ps5 games look so incredible. Even older 90's movies just look fucking stellar. blacks are awesome.

Yeah thats a mega deal mate, I used to sell worse spec'd 75" Sonys in 2018 for 2500 lol. The level of upgrade from a non-HDR 6000 series Samsung is INTENSE haha, its that FALD doing so much of the work I'm sure. Glad you are enjoying it.

Try this in your TVs internal youtube app:



I love the shots of the deer.
 

DeepEnigma

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X90J no LD

X900H no LD


X90J LD enabled

X900H LD enabled
Yeah, I'll stick with my 900H. Can't go wrong with either set.

I'll see what the K(?) model line does next year.
I can't see the price difference being worth it as the 900H is a very nice TV especially at that price point, just my 2 cents
Agreed.
 
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kyliethicc

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The interesting one to watch now is the X95J.

Last year's X95H (950H) was better in almost every way than the X90H (900H) except it lacked HDMI 2.1.

Now the X95J will have all the HDMI 2.1 support, like the X90J/H do. Only 65" and up tho, sad there's no 55" model.

And the A80J could be cool too.
 
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I returned my X90J this afternoon. Couldn't get HDMI 2.1 working properly, and while it looked amazing it didn't look like a $1200 jump. I might grab the LG CX, but might just wait entirely as my current TV works perfectly.
 
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TKOFromTokyo

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Watching Batman 89 right now and the clarity and detail is so good in the 4K that you can see the netting for Nicholson's wig:

Details are why I really like 4K. I love seeing all the textures. Specular highlights are less interesting to me.
 

Zoro7

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I returned my X90J this afternoon. Couldn't get HDMI 2.1 working properly, and while it looked amazing it didn't look like a $1200 jump. I might grab the LG CX, but might just wait entirely as my current TV works perfectly.
What didn’t work with hdmi 2.1 if you don’t mind me asking?
 
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Ulysses 31

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How much better is the OLED v LCD thing for you?
Depends on the LCD, the high(er) end LCDs can come close the black levels in some conditions. If you like brightness then LCDs leave OLED's in the dust in SDR.

I don't think the difference is anywhere near dramatic whenever I switch between my OLED and QLED but in a dark room, the OLED does have the clear advantage.