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Sonic the Hedgehog Community Thread |OT3 & Knuckles|

Tizoc

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Jun 23, 2010
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lol @ peeps still waiting to play the game.
I've spent the last 2 hours playing it, scrubby ass as I can and seem to have made it halfway through.
Bosses are rather easy in Mani although the hardest one for me were
Invincible Egg Spider and Metal Sonic
 

Nocturnowl

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I played some Lost World today and once again wept for what could've been, such a strange game. There's so many base mechanics that have potential yet they all come with odd blunders like crummy handling, inconsistent reliability (hello multi target homing).

I couldn't call it a good game by any stretch yet I have this soft spot for it, kinda wish they tried refining it but oh well, it will forever remain its own isolated oddity.

Mega Man 9 is far and away the best game that that franchise ever received.
Yep

sonic forces will be a fun game that i will enjoy playing while laughing at infinite's edginess
Still yep

MM9 is a very solid game that's too enamored with instant death traps for its own good.

....well I can't deny that last bit either.
 

Village

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Jan 21, 2013
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And the timeline we're on is "the darkest of nights," "the sharpest of blades."

Now as edgy as those lines are, and as much as a microchasm of non understanding of what people like about the edgier elements of sonic... I will give him a chance. And as much as this whole game seems like a giant series of non understandings of why people like multiple things about sonic... I will give this game a chance.

That's all i can do

Or I could just not buy the game, that would probably be the option that would potentially preserve more of my soul
 

Watch Da Birdie

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Mega Man 9 was hard as fuck, I think the only boss I beat was Galaxyman.

10 was much more beginner friendly I thought.

Anyway 9 and 10 are solid games, I just meant compared to what I've seen of Mania there wasn't any "wow factor". Everything more or less felt like stuff that'd be theoretically possible on the NES, while Mania has elements that exceed what the Genesis is capable of.
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
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Mega Man 9 was hard as fuck, I think the only boss I beat was Galaxyman.

10 was much more beginner friendly I thought.

Anyway 9 and 10 are solid games, I just meant compared to what I've seen of Mania there wasn't any "wow factor". Everything more or less felt like stuff that'd be theoretically possible on the NES, while Mania has elements that exceed what the Genesis is capable of.

Mega Man 9 is better than every game that came before it because it's the only one that has a fully fleshed out arsenal of boss weapons.

Lots of MM games are filled with stuff that falls on opposite ends of the spectrum: useless joke weapons that you'd never use or flat-out overpowered stuff that supersedes everything else (Metal Blade). In MM9, almost every single weapon was useful throughout the game, from the general-purpose buster replacement (Splash Woman), to a shield that's actually useful (Jewel Man), to high-power screen clearing emergency buttons (Tornado Man, Galaxy Man), a spread shot (Magma Man), and a homing shot (Hornet Man). And then there's the one requisite joke weapon that the final boss is weak to (Plug Man).

That's Mega Man's whole gimmick: acquiring all of the bosses' powers. And it took until MM9 for them to really nail it. The fact that they even scaled his base abilities back (no charge shot) meant that there was even more emphasis on the power-ups.

And there is no way in hell that MM9 is harder than the first 3 games, either. That's some 21st century revisionist history if I've ever seen it. Nothing in 9 is as bullshit as MM2 Wily Boss 4.
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
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I was never good at Megaman so I wasn't disputing the difficulty of the originals, just that 10 was far far easier for me than 9---I beat the formed in a few hours, while the latter I never beat even half the Robot Masters.
 

Paul_Str337

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I've read some people complain about the Drop Dash like IGN but a few levels in and I'm relying on it so much I get confused when I have a shield and can't use it! It's such a useful tool. I think Mania is a bit good peeps!
 

Dereck

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Does anyone care about the Sonic 3 double-tap flash thing that Sonic had

Does it take away or add any meta to the gameplay whatsoever
 

Sciz

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Insta-shield is super powerful for blowing past hazards if you can actually get used to the timing of its invincibility frames.

In practice most people just use it to trivialize orbinauts.
 
May 30, 2013
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I played some Lost World today and once again wept for what could've been, such a strange game. There's so many base mechanics that have potential yet they all come with odd blunders like crummy handling, inconsistent reliability (hello multi target homing).

I couldn't call it a good game by any stretch yet I have this soft spot for it, kinda wish they tried refining it but oh well, it will forever remain its own isolated oddity.


Yep


Still yep



....well I can't deny that last bit either.

I might buy the import OST.
 
Apr 10, 2014
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I like the Insta-Shield, and it would be neat to have it as an option in Mania (assuming it isn't one secretly hidden somewhere). Practically speaking the bigger hitbox helped with bosses/bypassing certain enemies/bouncing off of things in the environment to maintain a certain height or momentum. It was a pretty natural feeling move and could definitely be useful when plowing through levels since it let you move with less caution, assuming you didn't expect it to carry your reckless abandon to the end.

The Drop Dash is probably more fitting and easier understood as a Sonic-specific tool however, so the trade-off should be fine.
Also the insta-shield sucked in Generations IIRC, though that's irrelevant.

Mega Man 9 is better than every game that came before it because it's the only one that has a fully fleshed out arsenal of boss weapons.

I know people look down on this game a lot but I feel MM8 actually did special weapons in a very unique and thorough manner that's about on equal footing to 9, if not superior. Almost every weapon has practical applications both against different enemy types and as method of traversing through stages, the second claim being something not many other titles can get behind.

Thunder Claw - Rapid fires as a pseudo-melee attack, can be used to swing on hooks/open some doors to reach different areas

Flame Sword - strong close range attack than can burn the environment and light fuses to open different areas

Flash Bomb - Metal Blade equivalent that can also light dark rooms and hit enemies/switches over a brief period of time.

Ice Wave - Attacks along the ground and walls, and can hit switches/obstacles as well

Tornado Hold - Continuous damage, and has a great utility in that it also lifts Mega Man/environmental hazards to let you greatly expand your traversal flexibility

Rock Ball - Attacks from many different angles and gives you access to both a higher jump and double jump.

Granted, Astro Crush, Homing Sniper and Water Balloon were pretty run of the mill weapons in how they functioned, and Rock Ball doesn't technically count as robot master power, but I don't think it can be denied that MM8's approach to weapons as multi-function, non-traditional tools was definitely something unique and commendable for the series, even if the game's design overall didn't push the potential of what it introduced.

And like Sciz brought up, MM&B also had a fair selection of weapons in a similar vein to MM8, with some like Magic Card even showing some early signs of what would be in MM9 through Hornet Chaser. I'll agree though that out of the games with a typical Mega Man arsenal layout, MM9 definitely had most of the other titles beat. Jewel Satellite is dabes.
 

Waddle Dee

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Jun 3, 2013
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At least the Mania OT is really positive. Granted, there's a lot of posts in that thread from people complaining about things due to their own incompetence, but at least it's not "Sonic was never good" shit.

Edit: Oh yeah, and I gave my early thoughts on stages in Mania after playing through it twice in the OT, so I'll just post that here. Still trying to get those damn Gold Medals, lol.

Played through the games as Sonic solo last night and it was an incredibly time. I got teary eyed during a few parts. Really makes me happy to know that we finally have a true successor to Sonic 3 & Knuckles. I'm not sure if I'd say this game is better, it's too early to tell, but it's at least close to being on par I think.

Just a few scrambled notes I have:

- A tad disappointing that there's only
4 new zones
but they're fantastic.

- Music and visuals are consistently on-point. Probably the best looking 2D game on the market, unless there's some SNK game I'm missing.

- Too much time is spent
playing Blue Spheres if you plan on getting the gold medals. I like Blue Spheres but not this much lol.

- A shame that
debug mode
can only be messed around with on a No Save file. What a weird omission.

- I found a couple bugs revolving around music tracks not playing correctly. It's happened enough to feel like something that should have been noticed during play testing.

Now for Zone specific comments:

Green Hill Zone

- Great level layout. No complaints. I love the cave sections.

Chemical Plant Zone

- Act 1 isn't changed as much as I would have liked but no real complaints here.

- Act 2 is
really creative. The gimmicks are fantastic and blend in well with the standard Chemical Plant affair.

- Act 2's Boss
was a wonderful surprise... Or at least it would have been if that asshole Jeff Gertsman didn't spoil it. Fuck you, Jeffry!

Studiopolis Zone

- Act 1 is great, obviously. The
boss fight's attacks can be hard to avoid due to the slightly shifting terrain
but otherwise it's cool.

- Act 2 is
visual overload, but in a good way! I don't really understand how those funnels with the numbered balls work though. Can you influence what you get from those?

- Act 2's boss is
super charming! I love how they put Cluckoid in as the weather dude and how he reacts to what the weather is. :3

Flying Battery Zone
- Act 1 is really solid and I really dig how
the Lightning Shield sticks you to those ceilings.

- Act 2 has
really kick ass music and some great gimmicks though the boss felt a bit inconsistent in whether he'd bounce into the spikes or not.

Press Garden Zone

-
A really inspired new zone! Not all the gimmicks clicked with me instantly and act 1 doesn't really have anything amazing from a level design standpoint. Feels a bit too stop-and-go.

- Act 2 fairs better but
I found the boss a bit annoying at first.

Stardust Speedway Zone

- Act 1 is great! I love how they
used the Past version for this act.

- I was disappointed that Act 2
wasn't in the Good Future, which is my favorite look for Stardust Speedway.
- The boss
against Metal Sonic kinda sucked to be honest. Having Robo-Sonic from GG Sonic 2 show up was adorable but trying to figure this part of the boss out just wasn't any fun and the last section of the boss wasn't interesting.

Hydrocity Zone

- The zone as a whole is alright but I don't think it tops the original.

- The boss fights were clever and funny.
I didn't know to hold down jump during the first act's boss at first, though. Another element that isn't explained properly.

Mirage Saloon Zone

-
Never was a fan of Skychase but it's fun here and doesn't overstay it's welcome.

- Act 2 is a lot of fun and I can tell they've improved it's layout since it was revealed.

- Act 2's boss
is a great triple cameo but the fight itself isn't too engaging.

Oil Ocean Zone

- I was really excited to see this return since, against popular opinion,
Oil Ocean is my favorite zone in Sonic 2. Act 1 doesn't do too much outside of the fire shield but it's fun and I appreciate that they improved the AI on those Seahorse badniks so they give you more time before firing at you.

- Act 2's main gimmick is
kinda just annoying and is worse than what it was a callback of (the ghosts in Sandopolis, which I actually liked).

- Act 2's boss
felt a bit too punishing but maybe I'm just missing something.

Lava Reef Zone

- Act 1 is a good enhanced version of the original.

- I was really hoping for
Quartz Quadrant to show up so while that's a bit of a shame, at least it gets heavily referenced here in Act 2!

- The boss fight in Act 2
felt tacked on. This is the only Egg Robo you fight in a remixed zone so it makes me wonder if they had plans for one other new zone but ran out of time?

Metallic Madness Zone

- A nice surprise.
The "go in to the background" sections of Act 1 were pretty cool.

-
The return of Mini-Sonic! Boss fight was a nice callback as well.

Titanic Monarch Zone

-
I'm a bit torn on this last zone since it has a lot of really cool hazards and ideas but it can also be a bit too cluttered at times.
- Act 2's boss is
a good end boss but not mind blowing.

-
The final boss for getting all the emerald honestly sucked in my opinion. Very confusing. I'm not sure what the point of dashing is, and the Egg Robo was hard to hit without also getting hit yourself. I'm probably missing something.

Overall, I've been having an amazing time and I can only hope that Taxman and his team are given the chance to make another new Sonic game entirely comprised of new zones!
 
I almost wish Mania came out after Forces, because you know if Forces falters in the slightest people will be using Mania as justification for their opinions on 3d Sonic needing to end/never being good.

Forces most likely won't be as well received, but I'm worried that people will use Mania as reason for not even giving it a fair chance.
 

RK128

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Jan 6, 2014
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I almost wish Mania came out after Forces, because you know if Forces falters in the slightest people will be using Mania as justification for their opinions on 3d Sonic needing to end/never being good.

Forces most likely won't be as well received, but I'm worried that people will use Mania as reason for not even giving it a fair chance.

Good, Sonic Team needs to feel some pressure for once. SEGA knows other talent can match the past games quality and surpass it in some ways. They don't NEED Sonic Team anymore, so the studio needs to prove to SEGA and the general gaming community 'We CAN make fun Sonic games. Just watch us.' with Forces.

If they cannot do that and Forces get's toxic critical reception...oh well. I love 3D Sonic (played 3D Sonic first before diving into the Classic series), but SEGA had something with Unleashed. From that game onward, the series just improved it's quality. Colors, All Star's Racing, Generations, 4 Episode II and Racing Transformed were all good to great games.

Finally, FINALLY Sonic was consistant quality on consoles for once! But then we got the mixed Lost World and the very devisive Sonic Boom. Sure, the later can't be blamed on Sonic Team, but the former should have continued the 'great' streak they had going for them.

By the time Forces released, Sonic Team has been working on it for three years, since Lost World released on Wii U in November 2013 (a smaller team for the Nintendo DLC and patches likely wasn't very large either, same thing with Sonic Runners most likely too). More than enough time to put out a fun, strong Modern Sonic title.

But Forces looks to try and appeal to everyone...when it will appeal to no one. Modern looks bland level design wise (though it's not really fair to say that; Generations Green Hill was quite linear but later Modern levels opened up more), Classic is going to suck in comparison to Mania and Avatar could just be a 'poor' Modern Sonic to some.

I just hope it's at least decent, but still, another poor 3D Sonic will lead to SEGA making decisions.
 
Good, Sonic Team needs to feel some pressure for once. SEGA knows other talent can match the past games quality and surpass it in some ways. They don't NEED Sonic Team anymore, so the studio needs to prove to SEGA and the general gaming community 'We CAN make fun Sonic games. Just watch us.' with Forces.

If they cannot do that and Forces get's toxic critical reception...oh well. I love 3D Sonic (played 3D Sonic first before diving into the Classic series), but SEGA had something with Unleashed. From that game onward, the series just improved it's quality. Colors, All Star's Racing, Generations, 4 Episode II and Racing Transformed were all good to great games.

Finally, FINALLY Sonic was consistant quality on consoles for once! But then we got the mixed Lost World and the very devisive Sonic Boom. Sure, the later can't be blamed on Sonic Team, but the former should have continued the 'great' streak they had going for them.

By the time Forces released, Sonic Team has been working on it for three years, since Lost World released on Wii U in November 2013 (a smaller team for the Nintendo DLC and patches likely wasn't very large either, same thing with Sonic Runners most likely too). More than enough time to put out a fun, strong Modern Sonic title.

But Forces looks to try and appeal to everyone...when it will appeal to no one. Modern looks bland level design wise (though it's not really fair to say that; Generations Green Hill was quite linear but later Modern levels opened up more), Classic is going to suck in comparison to Mania and Avatar could just be a 'poor' Modern Sonic to some.

I just hope it's at least decent, but still, another poor 3D Sonic will lead to SEGA making decisions.

I agree, but even if Forces hits Colors or Generations level of quality I can still see the general community ignoring or tearing it down without giving it chance because Sonic Mania will be held up as the scapegoat for hating 3d Sonic.
 

Anth0ny

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The final paragraph of Sonic Retro's review gives me feels:

Sonic Mania is proof that when a company wants to work with its fans, they can make unbelievable things happen. Mania has an incredible level of polish and love poured into it, and it shows with every single second that the clock ticks. Make no mistake, this comes from a team that has known what made Sonic the Hedgehog work in the first place, some of which have been on this very front page, telling it like it is, years ago. The greatest achievement of Sonic Mania is that it successfully transcends the norm of being “another good Sonic game.” It’s the best Sonic game since 1994, but in its own right, it’s easily the best 2D platformers to come out in recent memory, much less this year alone. If you’re a casual fan or someone who is looking for a magnificent platformer that goes all out, Mania is for you. And if you’re a Sonic fan, chances are, you’ve already got it in your sights. And as you should, Sonic Mania did the unthinkable: Sonic the Hedgehog is cool again.


We made it fam ; _ ;



No, literally. We made it. Amazing it came to this for another great Sonic game to finally be made :p
 

Village

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We didn't make anything, nothing at all. We made it nowhere, nothing changed. I think " sonic is cool again" is the wrong thing to gleam from this, sonic isn't cool again. It suggests something has changed, that we found some miracle solution, and that's not true. And the wrong lesson to learn from this
 

Village

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True.

Bu what I mean is, where are as... as much as community you can call the sonic " community" is in the same place. There are people giving their hot takes on how sonic was never good, with a sonic game on the market that is one of the highest reviewed sonic games in years. And folks are like sonic was never good, still. And they are gonna keep saying it. Sonic has always been cool, and at the same time, its never been cool to the people who wish you know voice their disdain rather loudly about the franchise and those who like it.

There's no magical solution, we didn't make it no where. This is just " hey if you make a game for a specific group of people and make it good, they'll buy it" . This some shit that sega, for whatever the hell reason gotten to the point where this has been shown to them.

Because they lack the ability for whatever reason for them to internalize criticism in a way that can be used for actual growth as a franchise instead of momentary moments of " well this isn't so bad", and sega has yet to prove to me they can actually use criticism and requests in a way that will cause actual growths in quality in the franchise. We in the same position when colors and generations came out when we thought those were poppin, and bam lost world, sonic boom. Suddenly those good sonic games, retroactively not good. Except this time around, that game might be two months apart from this one.

So we are in the same position we were in before, because i've set to see any actual ideologically change , or change in staff high up enough to indicate actual change. Now I haven't played sonic forces, I hope its good. The interviews , previews, hell the first trailer had people thinking it was going to be no good. But I hope its good, I would like to be wrong and be happy. But i'm not seeing change to indicate this. I'm at the point now where they could strait up make sonic adventure mania, in house. And its a rose tinted version of everything I liked about sonic adventure, everything is 10 times better than anything I actually remember. But I don't believe in sega's ability to replicate and expand on that idea in a meaningful way. And all even my hope for mania in the future is slightly dampened because sonic team is in charge at the end.

So I feel like sonic in the sameplace

" Oh this shit is good. I wonder whats in store for the future" And sega hasn't...shown anything that indicated " improvement". And I know this a very sour way to look at this, sonic mania has brought joy to people who may have not played sonic in a long time and possible let newer and younger folk play and possibly enjoy the type of game I enjoyed when I was younger.

But I can't help but feel like when folks are talking about " blue skies ahead" folks are setting themselves up for disappointment
 

Sciz

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I think a fortunate side effect of Mania being released so close to Forces is that that it'll still be fresh enough in everyone's mind for them to say "hey wait, Sonic can totally be good what the hell is this" instead of "jesus Sega pack it in already".

The dedicated detractors will still gripe, but the important part is getting enough voices out there taking Sega to task specifically instead of giving up on the franchise altogether.
 

Village

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But I feel like those were there, when Shth happened, and 06 happened, and when lost world and ROL happened after colors and generations.Things don't seem to have changed, Sega has been taken to task constructive by multiple sides of the fanbase, for literal decades.

So like I understand and agree with you, or at least the idea of what you are saying right. But you know... why would they listen now?

Also I feel like the critcism might be a bit murkier to go through when forces does come out, because I feel like a lot of it will be " well don't make 3d sonic games anymore" or " get rid of all characters past the genesis era" and maybe a lot of it wont be too constructive or care to actually like craft ideas that work with the idea that they are trying to do.

I hope i'm wrong though
 

BlackJace

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Even if Mania was the only game that was coming out, it still wouldn't change the majority of people's minds.

Shit, I'm just happy that we have a badass 2D game again.
 

Sami+

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We're definitely going to get a lot of "3D Sonic was never good" at least. And "fire the entire Sonic Team"

Frankly I don't think either of those statements are outrageous and I say that as someone who loves Adventure 1 and sort of likes Unleashed/Colors/Generations to varying degrees.
 

Aki-at

Member
Jan 11, 2015
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We're definitely going to get a lot of "3D Sonic was never good" at least. And "fire the entire Sonic Team"

They've been had then because Sonic Team is more a brand that SEGA uses than a development house like Ryu Ga Gotoku Studio or Creative Assembly :p

Can't close shop on something that doesn't exist!

Good, Sonic Team needs to feel some pressure for once. SEGA knows other talent can match the past games quality and surpass it in some ways. They don't NEED Sonic Team anymore, so the studio needs to prove to SEGA and the general gaming community 'We CAN make fun Sonic games. Just watch us.' with Forces.

Sonic Team isn't a studio, the "studio" is SEGA CS2 which produces Sonic, Puyo, PSO2 and new IPs like Rhythm Thief and Uta Kumi 575. Though moving responsibility away from them would be a good idea but they won't feel any, if much, pressure for the critical reception.
 
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Thank you. Drives me nuts every time people throw around "fire Sonic Team" instead of suggesting more practical solutions, though to be fair it's hard to gauge what the source of the shortcomings/missteps of the 3D games stem from, whether it be executive meddling, shifting internal project priorities and design philosophies, a mix of the two or whatever. Things like 'replace Sonic Team with Mania/Utopia devs" are probably even worse since it just assumes so much about Sega's willingness to send the franchise down a set path as well as doesn't offer anything for the actual employees who many very well be hitting project goals perfectly fine.

Whatever happens with Forces, I think Sega having both Sonic Team and the Mania crew (assuming that they aren't foolish enough to never employ their talents again) around can only be beneficial for the franchise as a whole. If Forces actually flops super hard (which, for better or worse, I doubt it will) I don't think it'll be the end of the world for the 3D titles from this design pool, but I think they'll/Sega'll definitely be looking to address whatever internal or external conflicts partly caused the shortfalls of this game and Lost World (and Generations to an extent). It feels more like a matter of organization and priorities than outright talent at the moment, and at worst I look at Forces along with Mania as a soft-reset on the franchise's priorities moreso than the end-times for a certain gameplay style or production team.
 

Sciz

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To the best of my knowledge, Sonic Team has never had anything to do with PSO2.

And while they do stay involved with a number of other titles, they tend to be co-productions with external studios. Major console Sonic titles are the one thing they regularly produce almost entirely in-house.
 

Aki-at

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As far as I know, there are a few people who worked on stuff like Phantasy Star Universe, Phantasy Star 0 etc went on to work on some Sonic games but outside of that, no one from the credits of Sonic Colours, Generations etc worked on Phantasy Star Online 2 true. Hard to actually say on the account that I can't check the credits since you know, Sega locked that up in Japan :p

Still it's not really a studio/team, you've got people being jettisoned into other studios like SEGA Networks, R&D Sports and even Ryu Ga Gotoku Studio (Most notably Sonic & the Secret Rings director when on to direct Black Panther 2) all the time and Sega doesn't actually consider Sonic Team a, well, team. It's used for marketing purposes the same way Nagoshi is still credited as the Yakuza guy when the last Yakuza game he had a hand in is Yakuza 4.

In regards to Sonic Forces potential outcome, I don't think this will be a one or the other matter for the future of the franchise. As long as Forces actually sells Sega will just think they've finally got another major money maker out of Sonic they've been trying to establish since the 7th generation. The Allstars brand was meant to be that but the third release didn't meet expectations and Boom was a complete failure. If mainline modern Sonic and classic Mania Sonic is the way forward than great.
 

Watch Da Birdie

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I think Sonic Mania has Generations beat on a technical level in terms of better mastery of capturing the classic feel, and is certainly a more imaginative game, but I actually liked how Generations constructed their levels (in terms of map structure) and so far think they were a bit more restrained and flowed better than much of what I've played in Mania.

Some of these Mania levels are just confusing to navigate and sometimes it's hard to tell if I'm going the right way or backtracking, especially on the first Zone based on a Sonic CD-level which just came off to me as a mess. Maybe I'll get used to them the more I play but I've enjoyed the shorter, simpler levels like
Press Garden Act 2
and
Hydrocity Act 2
better.
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Jun 26, 2009
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Finished Mania.

Overall this is the best Sonic game in over 20 years. My main problems with the game stem from the level design and enemy placement from the original games, and from the final level being a slog. That said, it's still an amazing game. No regrets about buying the CE to show Sega there's a market for 2D Sonic.

Edit: Oh, also lugged my old Sonic plushie down here when I came home from visiting my parents. And got my Sonic comics too. Only 9 issues were published in Norway, and I have them all. Also bought Sonic 1 for Master System, just need Sonic Chaos to have all the MS Sonic games.
 

Tizoc

Member
Jun 23, 2010
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Bit of a silly question but I wanted to talk about the 'chronology' of the Zones in Sonic 1.
So we know these are the Zones in Sonic 1
Green Hill
Marble
Spring Yard
Labyrinth
Star Light
Scrap Brain

Now Marble being ancient ruins that Sonic finds upon passing through Green Hill is fine.
But what is Spring Yard Zone? Was it an amusement park that Robotnik was using to disguise the construction of Scrap Brain?
I can see Spring Yard being over Labyrnith (which is where Robotnik found a Chaos Emerald), and it would explain why a section of Labyrinth Zone is under Scrap Brain (Act 3).

Far as Star Light Zone is...uh it's some kind of pocket dimension Robotnik hurled Sonic into to keep him out of his hair.

EDIT: Yo this is one menacing Death Egg