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[Nanashrew]

Well I wouldn't doubt the Melee would be financially successful if remastered or put on VC. But it would be capped to just the hardcore and those who feel a bit of nostalgia for Melee that would purchase it. Most casuals would likely stick with the latest iteration.

I dunno how much time Nintendo would be willing to spend on remastering Melee to fix or patch things and give it online etc., like many in this thread want though. The easy route and the one I see most likely to happen is simply making it run well through emulation and putting it on the storefront through VC and seeing a greater return in investment.

EDIT: Dangit, top of the page D;

 

[The Shadow Knight]

I do wonder how much of an investment it would take to make a VC version that plays absolutely perfectly. Because the core melee community will accept nothing less.

 

[BGBW]

I do wonder how much of an investment it would take to make a VC version that plays absolutely perfectly. Because the core melee community will accept nothing less.

The same investment they made when they added Smash 64 to the Wii's VC service. The investment will go towards the general emulator and then they'll throw Melee on the eShop one day. They may even have a promotion to go alongside Smash Switch's launch like they did with Mario Tennis on the Wii U.

 

[Oddish1]

Well I wouldn't doubt the Melee would be financially successful if remastered or put on VC. But it would be capped to just the hardcore and those who feel a bit of nostalgia for Melee that would purchase it. Most casuals would likely stick with the latest iteration.

I dunno how much time Nintendo would be willing to spend on remastering Melee to fix or patch things and give it online etc., like many in this thread want though. The easy route and the one I see most likely to happen is simply making it run well through emulation and putting it on the storefront through VC and seeing a greater return in investment.

I'd probably agree with this. An HD Melee port would certainly make its money back, but it makes much more sense for Nintendo to invest resources elsewhere. Having a VC port seems more likely since it'd be cheaper and not take as long to make.

 

[Professor Beef]

I'd probably agree with this. An HD Melee port would certainly make its money back, but it makes much more sense for Nintendo to invest resources elsewhere. Having a VC port seems more likely since it'd be cheaper and not take as long to make.

Yep. I can't see Nintendo exerting any more effort beyond a VC release.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Honestly I'm just surprised no one sees the irony there.

 

[Joey Ravn]

I can see the reason for the sentiment, but I can't agree with it. Nintendo absolutely has to support an old game in the fighting scene, especially when said game was never positioned as a professional and competitive fighting game. Show me where Nintendo ever planned Melee to become an eSport. It's like saying they should still support and promote NES Tetris because there's a hardcore scene that keeps playing it and has added a competitive layer to it.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

I think you have the wrong idea about his intent. Its more like a "fuck yea we made it"
and yea, most of us would be fine with a solid VC version that works the same

 

[Artanisix]

That's not really true for Hungrybox. Already been mentioned previously, but he has an engineering degree and quit a job in his field on good terms to become a full time streamer and attend more tournaments. And he's one of the only people that consistently gets top 3 and takes home money at every major tournament he enters. Edit: Not to mention sponsorship money.

So it's very much a lifestyle for him. He chose his passion over something more stable and more lucrative, and despite the assumed negativity in this thread, he's enjoying it.

its really cool that three people can sustain a livable wage off of smash bros

very viable, im a believer in his message now, melee can truly be a lifestyle for every fan out there

 

[Nickle]

I can see the reason for the sentiment, but I can't agree with it. Nintendo absolutely has to support an old game in the fighting scene, especially when said game was never positioned as a professional and competitive fighting game. Show me where Nintendo ever planned Melee to become an eSport. It's like saying they should still support and promote NES Tetris because there's a hardcore scene that keeps playing it and has added a competitive layer to it.

There's a large hardcore scene that plays Tetris for the NES?

 

[Link_enfant]

As a Melee tournament player since 2004, I wish for nothing more than a simple VC port, that'll still be a re-release of the game on a modern console and if it runs well enough (online play would be a great bonus ofc), that's fine.

 

[Takyon]

Honestly I'm just surprised no one sees the irony there.

What irony?

 

[Benzychenz]

“I want you to hear the amount of people who support this league, the amount of people who want this to be a lifestyle for people. This is not just a video game, this is a lifestyle.”

I'm cringing so hard just reading this, I think watching the video would actually kill me.

 

[EvB]

Smash Brothers is a lifestyle!

 

[Jacobson]

While Nintendo's support would be pretty nice, they are not obligated in any way to do it, and we shouldn't hold it against them.

 

[Crub]

There's no reason for Nintendo to spend money on the Melee fanbase when they could just as easily spend that effort on their newest game and have that scene grow instead. Hell, just look at Capcom or most other companies that make fighters. Once a new game drops, support for the older titles with tournaments and such goes away. You really think Capcom is going to be taking another look at SF4 or SF3?

You know, unlike Nintendo, Capcom actually do port their older fighters on to new hardware. If Melee was their property the game would have been rereleased ten times by now. Not a good comparison.

 

[Renekton]

I wonder how EVO 2017 Smash is gonna be like. Feels like there is alot less energy.

 

[GenG3000]

It's difficult that something made for entertainment can be a job. You can't take something not designed as such to be taken as a job and then ask the original creator for endorsement.

It's nice that exists and all, but let's not overstep boundaries. These guys are not in a position to demand anything. In fact, they should be grateful that they can make a living out of a 15 year old game.

 

[Shadow Puppetry]

I can see the reason for the sentiment, but I can't agree with it. Nintendo absolutely has to support an old game in the fighting scene, especially when said game was never positioned as a professional and competitive fighting game. Show me where Nintendo ever planned Melee to become an eSport. It's like saying they should still support and promote NES Tetris because there's a hardcore scene that keeps playing it and has added a competitive layer to it.

Why should Nintendo stick with the pass?

 

[Secret Owl]

This again?

I love Melee, but Nintendo doesn't owe you anything for devoting yourself to this game. They are glad you like it and will continue making sequels. I'm sure it will come to VC sometime now that they're talking about the possibility of GCN ports on Switch. Maybe it will even have some limited online play added in, like those SNES games they vaguely outlined for early 2018.

Either way, they don't owe anybody anything for making an enjoyable game. The Melee community can clearly foster itself, taking shots at Nintendo / Sakurai is just tired at this point. Yet it continues to be a common method of bolstering cred within the competitive Melee crowd. The whole trend just oozes entitlement. This isn't a Mother 3 scenario where we straight-up never got the game, and have been continually led-on about the possibility of a localized rerelease.

People in the scene should be lucky that Nintendo didn't demand Melee be taken out of every tournament they sponsored back when they were actually sponsoring tournies to promote Smash 4. They did that in some cases, but not all. That means people within Nintendo (probably NoA in particular) fought the good fight from the inside, and did their best. Nintendo management could cripple the whole scene with C&D's if they thought it was in their best interest, yet the scene persists.

TL;DR: Consider being thankful for what you have - a healthy competitive scene and a game you all enjoy playing.

 

[Nanashrew]

You know, unlike Nintendo, Capcom actually do port their older fighters on to new hardware. If Melee was their property the game would have been rereleased ten times by now. Not a good comparison.

No one really wants the bare bones Ultra Street Fighter 2 at $40 tho.

Gamecube VC would likely be $15 anyway, which would be the same price as PS2 classics on PS3/4, cause Wii is already occupying the higher end at $20 on Wii U VC too.

NES $5, SNES $8, N64/DS $10, GC $15, Wii $20.

 

[Murkas]

I'm amazed and always wondered how the Melee scene got so big, I remember 15+ years ago everyone would laugh at them "it's a party game lol!" and they'd get relegated to the corner of the room with a few dozen people crowding around 1 CRT TV because the organisers would never make it a main attraction like SF/Tekken/Marvel.

Now it's rivaling SF numbers. For an old ass game.

On topic: I think it just comes down to Nintendo gonna Nintendo, they can barely get an online system for their consoles that isn't hilariously out of date in our current year, no way can they cater to their own FGC with prize pools/balance patches etc.

 

[GoodMorningPluto]

I think it was said already (didn't read all 15 pages), but look at Starcraft, which is more popular than Starcraft 2 and is getting a remaster this year. Why can't the same thing happen here? Why do people need to move on?

 

[Oddish1]

On topic: I think it just comes down to Nintendo gonna Nintendo, they can barely get an online system for their consoles that isn't hilariously out of date in our current year, no way can they cater to their own FGC with prize pools/balance patches etc.

Well even Capcom can cater to the FGC, Nintendo being able to do it isn't even in question. Obviously they can, the real question is, why should they? Smash was designed as a party game and that's where most of its success is, the people who play it as a hardcore fighting have always been in the minority and have never been the focus for this series. Nintendo has usually just had a live and let live and let them do what they want, and has only recently made some concessions to those parts of the fanbase, but again, they will never be the focus for this series.

 

[Professor Beef]

You know, unlike Nintendo, Capcom actually do port their older fighters on to new hardware. If Melee was their property the game would have been rereleased ten times by now. Not a good comparison.

Darkstalkers was rereleased, and went over like a fart in church.
3rd Strike was ported, and people said "sure" and continued to play on GGPO. Same with Marvel Super Heroes/MvC1.
SF4 was the only one that saw (relative) success, and that was because of the Pro Tour. People dropped it like a bad habit once SF5 came out.

 

[ugly]

Even if Nintendo says "OK, what do you want? "
What are these guys gonna say?
"Uhh- Um Nintendo sirs... Uh *gulp*"

 

[BareKnuckle]

Props to the guy for being able to hold peoples attentions on the mic but Nintendo/Sakurai doesn't support your game because it is a party game for a 15 year old console.

People who are in this E-Sports bubble don't realise how much the rest of the world doesn't give a shit, could Nintendo's money be better spent on print ads for their new console or towards a bloody smash bros prize fund?

 

[Mokujin]

Melee is a 16 years old game ffs, I don't see companies behind that era games pushing them in the esports scene. Those staments seem really out of place to me.

While I think that it would be cool for Nintendo to do something like Brawl Switch that included a remastered Melee to please the long term fans, I don't think that justifies the kind of attitude shown there.

 

[Raitaro]

I want Capcom to keep supporting and iterating upon SFIII as well, or SNK with Garou, but even those generally more supportive companies expect their communities to move on and to pick up the newest iterations or series at some point (not counting re-releases like the endless SFII ones). Can we in other words really expect Nintendo to keep supporting Melee if there is a newer game to sell and market (assuming a version of 4 is coming to Switch)? In an ideal world, yes, but in this one perhaps not - which pains me as I do fully share the sentiment that it would be better if companies would keep old beloved games around in an officially supported capacity more often.

Also, didn't Hungrybox share the stage with Reggie two E3's ago during those championships for a Smash match? I wonder if he could have brought this up behind the stage to Reggie then as well.

 

[Rmagnus]

I think it was said already (didn't read all 15 pages), but look at Starcraft, which is more popular than Starcraft 2 and is getting a remaster this year. Why can't the same thing happen here? Why do people need to move on?

They don't have to move on, who is stopping them from playing meele

 

[Monocle]

A lifestyle?

Nintendo, please endorse my unhealthy obsession! Playing games isn't just my hobby, it defines my existence! Which is a good thing!

 

[Fugu]

There are so many falsehoods in this thread that it's hard to keep up. Many of them have also already been covered and I get the sense that a lot of people are just here to drive-by shit on Melee and that their ignorance comes from a lack of care and nothing more.

The one that bothers me the most, though, is the notion that Melee players should just move on. Move on to what? There hasn't been another game released that plays anything like Melee, and that's a big part of why its scene is so big. The other dimension to this is the idea that there's some compelling reason for them to move on; the ironic part of all of this is that Melee is actually doing great without Nintendo's help and in many places the competitive scene for Melee -- a game that is more than fifteen years old -- is bigger and healthier than the competitive scene for Smash 4, such as the major urban center in which I live.

There's a large hardcore scene that plays Tetris for the NES?

I know this was facetious but the competitive scene for NES Tetris is actually quite big. It's not esports big but they have tournaments and everything. Not the most exciting thing for the average viewer but if you're into Tetris like I am it's pretty neat; the NES Tetris players are operating in a completely different environment than the people who play any of the modern forms of Tetris. Hell, I play TGM and my problems are nothing like theirs.

A lifestyle?

Nintendo, please endorse my unhealthy obsession! Playing games isn't just my hobby, it defines my existence! Which is a good thing!

This sentiment is also ironic. The player in question was an engineer who felt he had to quit his job to remain competitive at the top level. He is most definitely not the only full-time player, either, and there's nothing wrong with that since these players are getting paid and there's a lot of people who are thankful that they do what they do (

Spoiler

maybe not in Hungrybox's case...

. Why are you passing judgement on his life? Tell us what you do so we can all laugh at it.

 

[Raitaro]

They don't have to move on, who is stopping them from playing meele

Well in this comparison with Starcraft the difference would be that - unlike Blizzard - Nintendo isn't re-releasing Melee on modern systems to make it easier for people to keep playing it and stimulate new people to join the existing fanbase (by removing the old hardware required as a barrier for example).

So while nobody is stopping people from playing Melee, nobody is making it easier for anyone to keep playing it either.

Edit: well said Fugu ^^^

 

[Rmagnus]

Well in this comparison with Starcraft the difference would be that - unlike Blizzard - Nintendo isn't re-releasing Melee on modern systems to make it easier for people to keep playing it and so that new people can join the existing fanbase.

So nobody is stopping people from playing Melee but nobody is making it easier to keep playing it either.

Again it's a business decision. Nintendo rightly or wrongly has decided a 15 yr old game is not worth the effort to port to a new system. Like I mentioned above I honestly don't see this happening to any other franchise beside smash. Kof, SF, GG, and BB are the fighting games I normally play and this to me really seem like just a smash thing which I just don't understand.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I don't necessarily know if a Melee player is the best vehicle for this message but I think there's definitely a point to be made. Even the newer Smash 4's push was kind of half-assed. Rather than debate whether hungrybox is an old man yelling at clouds or that Melee deserves a new push with an HD remake or VC release, I'd instead rather just focus on the fact that Nintendo does seem to have acknowledged that they should focus more on esports. It'll be interesting to see how they cater to the competitive scene in titles like ARMS and Splatoon 2.

 

[collige]

Also, didn't Hungrybox share the stage with Reggie two E3's ago during those championships for a Smash match? I wonder if he could have brought this up behind the stage to Reggie then as well.

He's gone on record saying he regrets not bringing it up at the time.

 

[tebunker]

I don't necessarily know if a Melee player is the best vehicle for this message but I think there's definitely a point to be made. Even the newer Smash 4's push was kind of half-assed. Rather than debate whether hungrybox is an old man yelling at clouds or that Melee deserves a new push with an HD remake or VC release, I'd instead rather just focus on the fact that Nintendo does seem to have acknowledged that they should focus more on esports. It'll be interesting to see how they cater to the competitive scene in titles like ARMS and Splatoon 2.

It looks like they are going to put a legitimate marketing emphasis on the competitive aspects. From the switch trailer showig splatoon in a competitive setting, and from the current tournaments they have set up it appears that that are primed to move that way.

However, the real truth to be seen is when the scene doesn't take off or the reception to the games is luke warm. How does Nintendo respond then? Do they double down knowing thay investment can pay off further down the road. Or do they walk away and try something else. Esports has a future, but I am not sure companies like Nintendo are ready/willing to fully invest.

 

[Fugu]

Again it's a business decision. Nintendo rightly or wrongly has decided a 15 yr old game is not worth the effort to port to a new system. Like I mentioned above I honestly don't see this happening to any other franchise beside smash. Kof, SF, GG, and BB are the fighting games I normally play and this to me really seem like just a smash thing which I just don't understand.

I play BlazBlue as well. You bet your ass they'd re-release Calamity Trigger if it was all of a sudden attracting a tournament scene larger than its flagship entry.

That's part of the point here; Nintendo has shown no reluctance towards re-releasing everything under the sun (including several choice Gamecube games) and yet they have shown no interest in re-releasing a game that is among the most popular they've ever released and that also happens to be their largest, by almost any metric, esports property. A common counterargument is that the combination of potential technical issues and the high standards of the Melee scene make this unviable, but the fact that netplay through emulators is such a thing refutes both of these simultaneously; Melee fans have exhibited a desire to make reasonable compromises to play their game in 2017 and the developers of entirely free emulators have proven that it's possible to emulate Melee with a high degree of accuracy.

Imagine how much bigger and more prosperous the scene could be if you didn't have to pursue increasingly obscure 17 year-old hardware to get it.

 

[Boss Doggie]

What irony?

calls for Nintendo's attention while ignoring Nintendo's offerings on the series and even calls out development stuff like they know things

 

[Oddish1]

I don't necessarily know if a Melee player is the best vehicle for this message but I think there's definitely a point to be made. Even the newer Smash 4's push was kind of half-assed. Rather than debate whether hungrybox is an old man yelling at clouds or that Melee deserves a new push with an HD remake or VC release, I'd instead rather just focus on the fact that Nintendo does seem to have acknowledged that they should focus more on esports. It'll be interesting to see how they cater to the competitive scene in titles like ARMS and Splatoon 2.

I'm not entirely sure how serious Nintendo is about pursuing esports. Everything they've done so far feels very token in a 'sure you can plays this competitively' as a selling point. Like it's more about pleasing some of the fans than seriously making esports a part of their business.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

This is sort of off topic, but I've always been kind of iffy on whether or not a Melee re-release is something even desired by pros. I mean, yeah, on the one hand it'd make tournaments a lot easier to organize not needing legacy consoles and CRT TVs. But on the other I think the increased latency of modern TVs -- particularly in a game as fast as Melee -- would present a real problem.

Mind you, I'm certainly not a pro Melee or a pro any game player myself, so maybe the adjustment wouldn't be that bad.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Smash Brothers is a lifestyle!

What I'm gonna yell at my wife when she asks me when I'm coming to bed in the middle of a match.

Jokes aside. I don't think I'd play a melee release all that much if given the option of smash 4, them again, I was never all that attached to that particular version.

 

[Nanashrew]

In terms of Splatoon, it's the west that needs to kick it into gear. Nintendo already holds official tournaments in Japan that travels across the nation with a national tournament at the end of the year at chokaigi with a concert.

We also had the emotional meltdown from one of the producers at the national tournament and what inspired them to make the last bit of updates and new gear for Splatoon 1.

EDIT: Also on Splatoon, the devs and producer also seem to embrace the community around the game. They're very thankful for them, hence the producer's smile and tears and despite what little they could offer due to development ending they still made Sheldon's Picks, and it was a thank you gesture to the community as he had promised to them on stage.

 

[ec0ec0]

You still need to show me evidence that there was development hell, all you are doing is pointing at a game putting more emphasis on modes you don't like and saying there wasn't enough attention given to what you cared about.

You are free to not like it, but that doesn't mean you get to say the production was a mess.

in the orirginal comment that you quoted i said that "the development was a mess" folllowed directly by "i mean, it took forever". I think that it is pretty clear what i meant.

brawl was a sequel to melee, going from gamecube to wii, which like everyone knows, was an almost non existant jump, yet the development took almost 4 years or something.

and i never said anything about development hell, come on now. You're making it sound like my original comment hinted at something, when in reality it was pretty clear, no?

 

[Raitaro]

Again it's a business decision. Nintendo rightly or wrongly has decided a 15 yr old game is not worth the effort to port to a new system. Like I mentioned above I honestly don't see this happening to any other franchise beside smash. Kof, SF, GG, and BB are the fighting games I normally play and this to me really seem like just a smash thing which I just don't understand.

It is indeed a business decision, one we largely have to accept whether we want to or not, but perhaps someone like Hungrybox would point out that one big difference between Smash and those other fighting games you mentioned is that even the newest Smash game is not fully supported on a larger tournament / e-sports level by Nintendo.

It could in other words be argued that it still feels as if Nintendo refuses to accept the fact that they have created a series that is more than a party game for at least a significant portion of the players, and that they as such only allow it to be featured in Evo and such tournaments instead of going out of their way to actively support the game and its fanbase and even to design the games around the feedback of the hardcore players. (Unlike with newer series like Splatoon and ARMS in some ways, which hopefully could be seen as signs that this stance might be changing.)

I'm generally impartial on this topic as I don't play Smash intensively in any way, and as such I have no reason to take Hungrybox' word as gospel, but I can't help but agree with him in sofar as his critical view on Nintendo's support of old and newer Smash games goes. Maybe the fact that Melee is still preferred by a part of the community could be both an (perhaps unreasonable depending on whom you ask) unwillingness to accept the newer games by some but also a symbol for Nintendo's deafness towards some of their most passionate consumers when iterating upon the Smash series. Both parties ideally should be able to meet in the middle somewhere.

 

[HawthorneKitty]

(Unlike with newer series like Splatoon and ARMS in some ways, which hopefully could be seen as signs that this stance might be changing.)

So what would Hbox and friends want as support because, correct me if I'm wrong, Nintendo doesn't do cash prizes/pot bonuses for any tournaments?

 

[BGBW]

So what would Hbox and friends want as support because, correct me if I'm wrong, Nintendo doesn't do cash prizes/pot bonuses for any tournaments?

Lucina idol concert.

Well that's what I would want.

 

[Riposte]

There's no reason for Nintendo to spend money on the Melee fanbase when they could just as easily spend that effort on their newest game and have that scene grow instead. Hell, just look at Capcom or most other companies that make fighters. Once a new game drops, support for the older titles with tournaments and such goes away. You really think Capcom is going to be taking another look at SF4 or SF3? I doubt Ed Boon even remembers what MK9 looks like. Occasionally yes, companies throw some tournaments a bone by adding money to prize pots for older games, but those are few and far between. You're never going to see them put any further effort into "support" for those games.

From a business stance, it makes no sense whatsoever. It's nice to dream about it I guess, though.

With Melee, Nintendo has the an audience, of both people who play the game and people who watch it. That is very valuable in itself; a whole aspect of the industry, with hundreds of millions of dollars, revolve around capturing that - here it's been done without lifting a finger. By throwing a Melee a bone, they have an opportunity (or will no longer be wasting an opportunity) to direct that attention towards newer games that will make them money. For tournaments, the obvious potential here is teaming it up with a newer version of Smash Bros and other games with "esports" potential, like Splatoon and ARMS. There's plenty of ways to get both the people at an event and the people watching at home to think about these other games.

Melee thriving (at least into the present and near future) is simply undeniable and what happens with other games is almost entirely irrelevant. What Ed Boon thinks about MK9 doesn't matter, not because that is the proper cosmic order of fighting game things, but because MK9 doesn't do (never did?) Melee numbers. Melee is different, and it doesn't need help growing.

The real question is if something like chipping into a prize pool for something like a multi-game tournament will give the better return for visibility and interest in the other games versus to just making the pool of the new games bigger in an event without Melee. It's difficult to give an definitive answer to that, but it is safe to say pretending this unprecedentedly successful and enduring scene doesn't exist is a waste of some kind for Nintendo.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

but replace the jorts with a CRT

 

[Fugu]

This is sort of off topic, but I've always been kind of iffy on whether or not a Melee re-release is something even desired by pros. I mean, yeah, on the one hand it'd make tournaments a lot easier to organize not needing legacy consoles and CRT TVs. But on the other I think the increased latency of modern TVs -- particularly in a game as fast as Melee -- would present a real problem.

Mind you, I'm certainly not a pro Melee or a pro any game player myself, so maybe the adjustment wouldn't be that bad.

I think there is some degree of truth to this but there are LCDs with low enough input lag that they would be acceptable for pools play or whatever. Besides, the main concern is not getting more setups for tournaments, it's making the game more accessible and exposing it to new players who basically have to discover it by accident as it is now.

calls for Nintendo's attention while ignoring Nintendo's offerings on the series and even calls out development stuff like they know things

Everyone in the Melee community is aware of Smash 4. Hell, HBox plays Smash 4. They're reeeeeeeeeeeally different games. S4 isn't trying to be like Melee and that's fine; however, the people who like Melee aren't going to jump ship to a game that is only tangentially related to the one they like.

As for development, the Melee scene has ad hoc'd a lot of really incredible stuff (like a netplay ladder and the 20XX hack pack, to say nothing of the incredibly large network of tournaments, almost all of which are streamed). They're coming from a place of knowledge.