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[GreyHorace]

Despite the quality of the prequels,, Star Wars is one of the biggest brands out there. They had an opportunity to give it new life after the success of The Force Awakens yet they completely squandered it. The responsibility falls on her.

Meanwhile Kevin Feige managed not to fuck up the Marvel Cinematic Universe for 10 years despite some missteps. It's now undoubtedly Disney's biggest franchise. Star Wars needs a guy like him.

 

[MilkyJoe]

More specifically, no one wanted to take responsibility for ending the trilogy after TLJ.

Yeah fucking too right.

I have no idea what they were thinking allowing that bald headed prick to make his own movie, instead of making part 2 of a trilogy.

 

[sol_bad]

Her. Iger threw out Lucas' treatments for a sequel trilogy fearing they would stray too far from why people liked the originals. Lucas tried to get her to fight for his ideas, but she sided with Iger and oversaw TFA with the mandate to make it a soft reboot of ANH. After TFA made bank, Iger gave her more freedom to make decisions. She then let Rian throw out JJs plans and do his own thing. Apparently this is because they saw eye to eye creatively.

Do you have a link to an interview or anything that talks about Lucas asking Kathleen to fight for his ideas against Iger?

You didn't see the video where she blatantly lies to his face? 0o

Thanks for the unedited video.







I don't see how any of this is her lying to his face. They have known each other for 35+ years and he has been on set for the Mandolrian show so I'm sure they are still on good terms. There was no contractual obligation to use his treatments and even in these interviews she says they are working on the script for Force Awakens, she doesn't say they are using George's treatment.

 

[Ulysses 31]

I don't see how any of this is her lying to his face. They have known each other for 35+ years and he has been on set for the Mandolrian show so I'm sure they are still on good terms. There was no contractual obligation to use his treatments and even in these interviews she says they are working on the script for Force Awakens, she doesn't say they are using George's treatment.

Turning Han into a deadbeat father and undo his character development and turning Luke into a coward and a Hermit certainly is protecting these characters and making sure they're continuing to live in the way Lucas created them.

Leia hugging Rey, someone who she barely knows, and ignoring Chewie in TFA certainly is in character too.

 

[TUROK]

Nah.

I'm over Star Wars and its obnoxious and overzealous fans these days.

Hell, the corporate suits probably only care about the money, and despite Solo stumbling, it's still raking in the money.

 

[Paracelsus]

Disney's biggest failure is not giving the OT & PT fans what they want. Your average 30 to 40 year old couldn't give a flying fuck about gender bollocks and those are the people they needed to rely on to pass the torch of the fandom to the next generation. "Let the past die, kill it if you have to" was the most costly mistake in movie, if not business history. There will be books written about this.

I agree about the bolded, not so much about the rest. You mean a prequel series? I don't know, this isn't like the Hobbit, where you knew it was tied to a successful great sequel trilogy.
The sequels basically reduced the worth of the original characters to nothing, so their backstories are now meaningless.

Nah.

I'm over Star Wars and its obnoxious and overzealous fans these days.

Hell, the corporate suits probably only care about the money, and despite Solo stumbling, it's still raking in the money.

That's short-sighted. They crushed any hope for future trilogies, nobody cares about spin-offs, the merch sales have been tanking for years.
So yeah, they better be saving every dollar of the billion they're gonna get from ROS.

 

[TheKillerStove]

Do you have a link to an interview or anything that talks about Lucas asking Kathleen to fight for his ideas against Iger?



Thanks for the unedited video.







I don't see how any of this is her lying to his face. They have known each other for 35+ years and he has been on set for the Mandolrian show so I'm sure they are still on good terms. There was no contractual obligation to use his treatments and even in these interviews she says they are working on the script for Force Awakens, she doesn't say they are using George's treatment.

I dont have anything public. The people working at LucasFilm and Disney are professionals and wouldnt let anything like that go public. It'd be career suicide. I'm going off of info from Midnight's Edge's source at LucasFilm. Everything they've said has been accurate so far, so I'm willing to take their word for it. I understand if you aren't willing to do the same though.

 

[buizel]

Do you have a link to an interview or anything that talks about Lucas asking Kathleen to fight for his ideas against Iger?



Thanks for the unedited video.







I don't see how any of this is her lying to his face. They have known each other for 35+ years and he has been on set for the Mandolrian show so I'm sure they are still on good terms. There was no contractual obligation to use his treatments and even in these interviews she says they are working on the script for Force Awakens, she doesn't say they are using George's treatment.

Not sure if its in these interviews, but George has said "I have every faith Kathleen will take my scripts and turn them into good movies". Something along those lines. It seems as if he was under the impression they would make movies from HIS scripts. Anyway, I'd love to hear Lucas talk about modern Star Wars, or some auto-biography of his.

Despite the quality of the prequels,, Star Wars is one of the biggest brands out there. They had an opportunity to give it new life after the success of The Force Awakens yet they completely squandered it. The responsibility falls on her.

Meanwhile Kevin Feige managed not to fuck up the Marvel Cinematic Universe for 10 years despite some missteps. It's now undoubtedly Disney's biggest franchise. Star Wars needs a guy like him.

I think it was a good vision and good actors that kept the MCU going. I personally only actually enjoy very few MCU films - Iron Man 1 and Spiderman Homecoming. But I cant argue the success of them. Will be interesting to see if they perform as well going forward.

 

[sol_bad]

Turning Han into a deadbeat father and undo his character development and turning Luke into a coward and a Hermit certainly is protecting these characters and making sure they're continuing to live in the way Lucas created them.

Leia hugging Rey, someone who she barely knows, and ignoring Chewie in TFA certainly is in character too.

Honoring the characters doesn't mean everything has to be sunshine and flowers. As long as the characterization is right the character is still being honored.
IMO the characterizations are fine.

I dont have anything public. The people working at LucasFilm and Disney are professionals and wouldnt let anything like that go public. It'd be career suicide. I'm going off of info from Midnight's Edge's source at LucasFilm. Everything they've said has been accurate so far, so I'm willing to take their word for it. I understand if you aren't willing to do the same though.

EH
Can't say I've ever watched Midnight's Edge, his thumbnails all look clickbaity.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Honoring the characters doesn't mean everything has to be sunshine and flowers. As long as the characterization is right the character is still being honored.
IMO the characterizations are fine.

When you're changing characters like that then it shouldn't happen off screen or just with a few minutes of flashbacks, it is character assassination and dishonoring.

 

[buizel]

When you're changing characters like that then it shouldn't happen off screen or just with a few minutes of flashbacks, it is character assassination and dishonoring.

Whatever happens, the documentary on this should be good.

I watched the Director and the Jedi (TLJ making-of) and theres some surprisingly decent candid insights sprinkled behind the Disney-facade of sparkles and perfection.

 

[TheKillerStove]

Honoring the characters doesn't mean everything has to be sunshine and flowers. As long as the characterization is right the character is still being honored.
IMO the characterizations are fine.



EH
Can't say I've ever watched Midnight's Edge, his thumbnails all look clickbaity.

I can understand that. They definitely do use the whole large text asking a question schtick a lot in the thumbnails. If you do give them a shot though, try to stay away from their roundtables and the Robs Rants videos. Their scripted stuff is excellent, but when they let Rob talk off the cuff he kind of makes an ass of himself. Specifically try to watch a video made by Andre. He's always professional and the closest to an actual journalist among them.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I agree about the bolded, not so much about the rest. You mean a prequel series? I don't know, this isn't like the Hobbit, where you knew it was tied to a successful great sequel trilogy.

.

I'm completely lost

I mean that they should have written the movies with respect to the original fans and characters, then brought new characters in, that people will grow to love, like how Lando was introduced in Empire. Disney thought they should kill off the old cast ASAP, then a new audience, with a longer lifespan, would carry them forward. There is no new audience if the people that give them money are not taking them to the movies.

 

[MisterHero]

Even if she is at fault, her hand is in too many legendary movies. She should be allowed to mess up.

I'm more interested in seeimg if they own up to whatever mistakes they made. I don't think they will; they'll probably double down.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Even if she is at fault, her hand is in too many legendary movies. She should be allowed to mess up.

I'm more interested in seeimg if they own up to whatever mistakes they made. I don't think they will; they'll probably double down.

Yeah, she had no say in the creative process in any of those movies, so no. A big fat fucking NO with bells and tinsel hanging off of it.

 

[slugbahr]

Of course he did. But he sold it because he no longer had the will power or enthusiasm to make the sequel trilogy. The amount of hate he received is just beyond insane. And this is before social media was a thing.

He sold it.
For 4. Billion. Dollars!

His reasons can be whatever the fuck he wants. They might even be what the fuck he tells people.
But they definitely aren't "fact" just because you say so.

 

[Birdo]

Her "Female empowerment" speech at the reveal of the Disney deal was a giant warning sign.

No great story started with an incentive to "Empower" a group of people. It was doomed from the beginning.

 

[GV82]

KK: "....I don’t feel that I have a responsibility to cater in some way. I would never just seize on saying, 'Well, this is a franchise that’s appealed primarily to men for many, many years, and therefore I owe men something...."

There she goes again, she forgets all the women who have loved Star Wars just fine the way it Was who probably don’t agree with her, all the ones who came onboard way before The Force Awakens.

Carrie Fisher must be rolling around in her grave mad at her.

But of course blame men, cos men haters rule, men drool.

 

[MisterHero]

Yeah, she had no say in the creative process in any of those movies, so no. A big fat fucking NO with bells and tinsel hanging off of it.

Well, I tried give credit to her as a more versatile producer than others, but yeah maybe producers don't do that much. Fair enough...

 

[Turnt]

Renew her contract with a big raise. She has caused much entertainment.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

YES

 

[Contica]

KK: "....I don’t feel that I have a responsibility to cater in some way. I would never just seize on saying, 'Well, this is a franchise that’s appealed primarilyas far to men for many, many years, and therefore I owe men something...."

As far as I'm concerned the Star Wars brand is damaged beyond repair.

However... How about just once, just once we quote the actual source of this quote, and add the bloody context instead of spinning this asinine tale about how Kennedy doesn't like men, huh?

Here it is: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/...story.html?smid=tw-nytimesarts&smtyp=cur&_r=1

Here's the choice quote, with some added context these dumbfuck talespinners love to leave out:

"The casting of women in the lead roles of fantasy films like “Rogue One,” “The Force Awakens” and “Ghostbusters” has proved unexpectedly provocative, drawing the ire of those few frustrated fans who call it a concession to political correctness.

Ms. Jones sidestepped this issue, saying that “we wanted the audience to relate to Jyn as a person, whether you’re a boy or a girl, a man or a woman.”

Kathleen Kennedy, the president of Lucasfilm, the studio that makes the “Star Wars” films, was more direct about whether she felt she had to placate these critics.

“I have a responsibility to the company that I work with,” she said. “I don’t feel that I have a responsibility to cater in some way.”

She added, “I would never just seize on saying, ‘Well, this is a franchise that’s appealed primarily to men for many, many years, and therefore I owe men something.’”

You've got to take into account what she answering. You've got to stop this relentless attack on something she said in a response to a reporter, resulting in a quote that some other site took, cut context out of, and went with. Everybody "knows" now that Kennedy doesn't cater to men, what they don't know that's not even what her point was. Her point was, she doesn't feel a need to cater to a bunch of men... who dislike female characters.

If you don't get that very simple and clearly laid out information from reading the actual article this comes from, I can't help you, but I'm so tired of seing this misquoted bullshit getting brought up time and fucking time again. Why? Because it proves em right. It makes male Star Wars fans look like a bunch of whiny little shits, when we have a bunch of very real and substantial issues with what has happened to Star Wars.

There are myriad issues with how Disney has completely buttfucked Star Wars with a baseball bat full of nails, but what Kathleen Kennedy said in that NEW YORK TIMES article (not screen rant) is not one of them.

 

[Musky_Cheese]

There isn’t a fall of a brand. There was 1 bad movie that made the previous film less interesting. And made the next film in the series difficult to write.

But TFA was a good movie. Rouge One was fantastic, best since Empire. Solo was fun too.

Rebels and Mandalorian are incredible.

But yes she is at fault for TLJ and how they handle criticism. She should be fired.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

yeah she sucks and will be asked to step down. but it will still be sold as a success, they still made billions, etc. if the blowback from ROS is really really strong then they will blame it on her via ownership. "This was the Kathleen Kennedy era" as she leaves they will loudly proclaim "it is the end of the KK era" get her to own all the mistakes as they market the new guys as a change. then the new guys eventually fuck up and they get the KK treatment from fans. it's a never ending cycle.

 

[Gargus]

From some things I've seen her say they really should fire her ass and put someone in there that actually gives a shit and can do the job. They need someone that is capable, intelligent and knows what's going on with the brand. They need a Kevin feige for the star wars brand.

 

[KingGhidorah]

Lucas Film needs a SW fan to lead the franchise, not a business executive/activist which what KK really is

 

[MetalAlien]

The fix is easy. Like super easy.

1) Fire Kennedy and her entire story group.

You know not one single person here is a Star Wars fan. Kennedy herself complained that writing these movies was difficult as "it's not like we have 800 page novels and comic books as source material" - fucking clueless

2) Give her job to Jonathan Favreau

3) Announce a new Trilogy starring Mark Hamill as Jedi Master Luke. Maybe make it about his Jedi academy and do NOT include the character of Ben Solo - this will speak louder than any apology.

Do that and people would scramble over each other to get into that cinema.

Disney's biggest failure is not giving the OT & PT fans what they want. Your average 30 to 40 year old couldn't give a flying fuck about gender bollocks and those are the people they needed to rely on to pass the torch of the fandom to the next generation. "Let the past die, kill it if you have to" was the most costly mistake in movie, if not business history. There will be books written about this.

It's a god damn coven!

 

[GreyHorace]

The fix is easy. Like super easy.

1) Fire Kennedy and her entire story group.

You know not one single person here is a Star Wars fan. Kennedy herself complained that writing these movies was difficult as "it's not like we have 800 page novels and comic books as source material" - fucking clueless

One look at that photo and the first thought that comes to mind: 'None of these women know what a tauntaun is.'

 

[MilkyJoe]

One look at that photo and the first thought the comes mind: 'None of these women know what a tauntaun is.'

Exactly.

 

[jason10mm]

They had a perfect canon source for the sequels. Thrawn was even set up in the cartoons. Luke is the only actor they needed to bring back. I like Harrison but he has none of the Solo swagger left. Fisher....well, anyway. Kennedy DEFINITELY needs to be replaced. Solo was 1 film for the price of 2, R1 had extensive reshoots (though I like that film quite a bit), and the new trilogy is such a narrative mess and is aesthetically atrocious, spawning ZERO new designs worth a damn beyond BB-8. I'm just glad it is over and Favaru has a chance to edge his way into control with the Mandalorian. I hope he follows up with the Ahsoka stuff from the end of Rebels, that would be FANTASTIC.

 

[MetalAlien]

One look at that photo and the first thought that comes to mind: 'None of these women know what a tauntaun is.'

Of course they do! Come on now! That's that furry thing that flies the Malcolm Fall Guy!

 

[KingGhidorah]

The films makes a shitload of money, not so sure that disney is gonna change something in their leadership for the saga...

Movie by established brand like SW is not just responsible to make shitload of money, it's also to maintain and expand the brand. great power comes great responsibilibyt kinda thing, and so far the brand is diminishing

 

[NeoGiffer]

 

[Trojita]

Non-white male leads didn't make the sequel trilogy suck. Pretty much everything else about them did.

Who's talking about non-white male leads in this thread? Oh wait, it's you. The cast from these movies could have made something really special. Nothing was wrong with the cast. It was the writing that ruined it. You don't see Marvel movies making consistently less money with each release.

It's early and I need some caffeine, but LegendOfKage what Thaedolus wrote sounds exactly like what you just said. He's saying that unlike what a more virulent toxic subset of fans say, it isn't the actors that were chosen but everything else (writing!) that ruined the sequel trilogy

 

[TriSuit666]

Apparently this is because they saw eye to eye creatively.

You mean they say eye to eye politically.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

ive been looking at the numbers for the older movies

Star Wars Franchise Box Office History - The Numbers

Star Wars franchise box office earnings

www.the-numbers.com

A New Hope had a worldwide box office of $775,398,007 in 1977. if you plug that into the inflation calculator it's more than $3 billion dollars! that's pretty insane to even consider.

also the opening weekend for each OT and PT movie seems to have increased. then you get to the ST and that number just goes down.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Absolutely.

The OP is ridiculously inflammatory bait. There's literally hundreds of issues with the Disney Trilogy without even touching the behind-the-scenes politics.

Issues with the Disney Trilogy:
1. Going into the trilogy with zero overall plan.
3. Dis-regarding Lucas' entire treatments and outlines.
6. Allowing JJ to do a soft-reboot of A New Hope.
14. Rian Johnson.
15. Actually - basically everything Rian Johnson.
156. The Story Group not focusing on the story.
19,657. Insulting everyone who dislikes the first two movies as sexist, racist, misogynist, [insert-new-thing]-ist, etc.
...
267,944. Behind the scenes politics framing decisions around casting, narrative drive, and messaging.

That's funny, because everything you placed ahead of the "behind-the-scenes politics" is dependent on the "behind-the-scenes politics". Who do you think were in charge of setting everything up? With throwing out Lucas's treatments? With going into the trilogy with no plan? With letting JJ do that soft-reboot? With hiring Rian Johnson in the first place? With the Story group going off-rails? With letting members of the production team and media insult fans by calling them bigots?

All of that stuff, ALL of it, can be traced back to the "behind-the-scenes politics", which would plant Kathleen Kennedy firmly at the center. It was her ship to sail. She sunk that shit.

Her. Iger threw out Lucas' treatments for a sequel trilogy fearing they would stray too far from why people liked the originals. Lucas tried to get her to fight for his ideas, but she sided with Iger and oversaw TFA with the mandate to make it a soft reboot of ANH. After TFA made bank, Iger gave her more freedom to make decisions. She then let Rian throw out JJs plans and do his own thing. Apparently this is because they saw eye to eye creatively.

That's also funny, but for a different reason. The irony in Iger fearing Lucas's treatments were "too far" from what people liked, but effectively giving the for TLJ, a SW fan that DEFINITELY strayed too far from what people liked, cannot be understated.

 

[Uhtred]

Yes 100%. The directing carousel and the lack of planning beyond TFA, should result in her removal.

 

[KingGhidorah]

The OP is ridiculously inflammatory bait. There's literally hundreds of issues with the Disney Trilogy without even touching the behind-the-scenes politics.

Issues with the Disney Trilogy:
1. Going into the trilogy with zero overall plan.
3. Dis-regarding Lucas' entire treatments and outlines.
6. Allowing JJ to do a soft-reboot of A New Hope.
14. Rian Johnson.
15. Actually - basically everything Rian Johnson.
156. The Story Group not focusing on the story.
19,657. Insulting everyone who dislikes the first two movies as sexist, racist, misogynist, [insert-new-thing]-ist, etc.
...
267,944. Behind the scenes politics framing decisions around casting, narrative drive, and messaging.

SW franchise can survive anything, even bad movies by GL, IF it still has fanbase behind it......now the fanbase is no more and new demographics is not coming

 

[12Goblins]

Absolutely it's her fault the series is dead. She won't take the heat for it though, women rarely take responsibility nowadays.

Lmao wtf?

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

This was one of my main questions after watching RoS and I asked it in one of the main threads.

Who is most responsible for the mess? Is it Rian Johnson for making TLJ or is it whoever allowed that to happen in the first place?

 

[VertigoOA]

Was Rogue One a fluke?

The complaints about SJW pandering being the cause is flawed. That’s almost last on the bucket list of issues.

Disney tried a soft reboot within its own world and failed to add anything. It retread old beats; both TFA and TLJ were shameless attempts at the familiar. It was insulting to see anyone call TLJ innovative and subversive. All it did was shamelessly copy both ESB and rotj, mixed with a bit AotC with the casino sequence.

They treated the force as just “space magic” and ignored any aspect of faith and philosophy. No rules, just more power... it’s dragon ball now.

So much of what stays with you when watching Star Wars was that bit of mysticism and how it influenced your thought.

“do, or do not. There is no try”

“long have I watched this one,
As looked he away to horizon,
To the future.

never his mind on where he was! Hmmph
What he was doing!”

And that’s where they fucked up. They treated Star Wars like how those who never understood perceived it, as a spectacle with big special effects and a loud musical score. By the numbers. Discussed as a committee.

I find their lack of faith disturbing...

THEY DONE FUCKED IT UP!

 

[macfoshizzle]

at least from this article, it looks it was more iger then kathleen. but who knows, it couldve been kathleen having iger's ear.

Bob Iger: George Lucas 'Felt Betrayed' When Disney Didn't Use His 'Star Wars' Sequel Plans - TheWrap

Disney CEO says he regrets the "unnecessarily rocky start" to his studio's ownership of "Star Wars"

www.thewrap.com

 

[VertigoOA]

at least from this article, it looks it was more iger then kathleen. but who knows, it couldve been kathleen having iger's ear.

Bob Iger: George Lucas 'Felt Betrayed' When Disney Didn't Use His 'Star Wars' Sequel Plans - TheWrap

Disney CEO says he regrets the "unnecessarily rocky start" to his studio's ownership of "Star Wars"

www.thewrap.com

If that’s Lucas’ original concept... I gotta say... different and strange.

There was really never a reason to wrap-up a story line. Episodic and would keep going. Would need to create a new threat, etc...

Well. I’m sad regardless.

 

[Nester99]

She needs to be removed. She did a bad job.

 

[iorek21]

She needs to go. These movies are more than enough to prove that she’s not capable for this job.

They should give LucasFilm for someone better than her. Hell, give it back to Lucas for all I care

 

[Darkmakaimura]

She needs to go. These movies are more than enough to prove that she’s not capable for this job.

They should give LucasFilm for someone better than her. Hell, give it back to Lucas for all I care

Like I said, Lucas is somewhat to blame since he is the one who recommended or put her in charge.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Non-white male leads didn't make the sequel trilogy suck. Pretty much everything else about them did.

Yep. I really liked the new main crew and their actors, and was excited to see their further adventures after finishing watching TFA, originally thinking they only used that film to the get the nostalgia stuff out of the way and they had a great plan for the next two films in the trilogies, but man...

 

[#Phonepunk#]

This was one of my main questions after watching RoS and I asked it in one of the main threads.

Who is most responsible for the mess? Is it Rian Johnson for making TLJ or is it whoever allowed that to happen in the first place?

Rian didn’t just make the movie he also set a pattern of trolling fans and encouraging the bullshit “Russian bots” narrative and straight up egged on people in a way that was completely unpfrofessional and only made things worse in the two years following his film. even now he is on twitter complaining about people that “want Luke to be a video game character” He set an elitist snobbery way of looking down on fans and we’re seeing his influence in all the reviewers now belittling “fan service” (in the 9th movie of a 40 year franchise)

I think the movies themselves really aren’t the biggest issue here, the mismanagement of social media, the allowing of official channels to bully fans in public, all these things poisoned the experience.

I wonder what the reception for ROS would have been like without the constant gaslighting by Rian stans

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Rian didn’t just make the movie he also set a pattern of trolling fans and encouraging the bullshit “Russian bots” narrative and straight up egged on people in a way that was completely unpfrofessional and only made things worse in the two years following his film. even now he is on twitter complaining about people that “want Luke to be a video game character” He set an elitist snobbery way of looking down on fans and we’re seeing his influence in all the reviewers now belittling “fan service” (in the 9th movie of a 40 year franchise)

I think the movies themselves really aren’t the biggest issue here, the mismanagement of social media, the allowing of official channels to bully fans in public, all these things poisoned the experience.

I wonder what the reception for ROS would have been like without the constant gaslighting by Rian stans

Didn't one of the book writers get canned by DisneyLucas for being an asshat on Twitter.

It was either Chuck Wendig or Pablo Hildago.