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Sea of Thieves had 4.8 million active players online in June

CitizenZ

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i saw a stat a few months ago that Roblox has about 34 million per day. So please stop with these sales threads when in the actual big picture, they are meaningless.
 

elliot5

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i saw a stat a few months ago that Roblox has about 34 million per day. So please stop with these sales threads when in the actual big picture, they are meaningless.
just because games like roblox and minecraft and league of legends have insane numbers doesn't mean any discussion of other games with lower numbers is worthles...

plus this isn't a sales thread.
 

Thirty7ven

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What? Why on earth would that make sense?

Because that’s actually how their success is measured inside the company.

Wait what?

A GaaS game should be judged by user retention, if a game has a good gameplay loop and decent content drops people wont NEED to spend money on it and that game should be judged as being good.

I basically never spend money in any GaaS game I play cuz I dont really care about cosmetics if im enjoying the gameplay loop.
Judging a game on how much money is spent will lead to even sharkier monetization techniques than we have now.

Get the fuck outta here!

I’m not saying a game’s quality should be based on it. A movie can both be a critical success and a box office bomb, these aren’t mutually exclusive.

Usually when you can retain players that leads to more spending though, so of course retention is important, but only because it leads to more $.

Painting a picture where the point is to make a game that keeps people coming without ever spending… is just a shit show way of running a business. From a business POV the whole point of Gaas is recurring spending. And please don’t say “I don’t spend money!” Yeah well, you are almost worthless to these companies then, not completely because if you like the game you will market it for them, so that’s something.
 
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Men_in_Boxes

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Almost every game experiences player drop off post a big expansion or event. Thats not uncommon, but SOT is constantly charting on steam, twitch and other platforms. It's a game that by any metric has legs.

Your obfuscating my specific criticisms with a broad and vague response.

"Almost every game" - This phrase belies the fact that the majority of games produced are crap. The fact that Sea of Thieves shares characteristics with the majority of games is not a good sign.

"experiences player drop off post expansion or big event" - This muddies the waters between what a small drop off is (healthy) and what a cliff is (unhealthy). Sea of Thieves had a vaguely successful June. It's currently barely being played. That's not healthy.

"SoT is constantly charting on Steam" - Steam charts a ton of games, including the unpopular ones. If you're referring to sales, then you're not addressing my point, which is Sea of Thieves is a commercially successful game that can't retain players. Sales isn't the issue. Engagement is.

"It's a game that by any metric has legs". - Technically any game that has at least one current user "has legs". That's a broad term. Dark Souls 3 and The Witcher 3 have longer legs than Sea of Thieves according to Steam.

Sea of Thieves was made by a 200 person studio, given 5 years development time, and has seen consistent dev support over the last 3 years. The fact that its being outperformed by Fall Guys is not great.

But it was/is commercially successful so "Congratulations Rare."
 
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Black_Stride

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I’m not saying a game’s quality should be based on it. A movie can both be a critical success and a box office bomb, these aren’t mutually exclusive.

So who exactly is judging the game us or the company?
Cuz internally whatever metrics they want to use is their business literally.
But if we are judging it, we dont have all the numbers to make such an assessment, how much does it cost to make the content that user x has bought?
We dont know that.

Logically if you are giving information to the public or as us outsiders discussing the game our only real metrics however flawed are Player count, player retention and as an actually player the gameplay loop and content drops.
 

Men_in_Boxes

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Curious do you paint every game in a bad light that announces high numbers around a dlc drop? because every game does it.

Not sure how a 4 year old game having 4 + million player uptick can be twisted into a bad thing but fan boys will fan boy I suppose.

I don't value a games metrics around an unsustainable marketing blitz.

I value a games metrics when other games are exercising their marketing blitz and it's player count grows or remains consistent.

Halo Infinite will have great numbers this holiday. I judge it based on what it's doing 3, 12, and 24 months after release.

Rust grows despite everything going against it.
Sea of Thieves has every advantage and it wilts when MS isn't advertising the hell out of it.
 
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Thirty7ven

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So who exactly is judging the game us or the company?
Cuz internally whatever metrics they want to use is their business literally.
But if we are judging it, we dont have all the numbers to make such an assessment, how much does it cost to make the content that user x has bought?
We dont know that.

Logically if you are giving information to the public or as us outsiders discussing the game our only real metrics however flawed are Player count, player retention and as an actually player the gameplay loop and content drops.

I fail to see how knowing over 4 million logged into a game that is also available in a subscription service tells us anything about how good it is. Which is why I was looking at it from the business side, which is the framing of the OP really.

It’s inside baseball that’s all.
 
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Stuart360

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I don't value a games metrics around an unsustainable marketing blitz.

I value a games metrics when other games are exercising their marketing blitz and it's player count grows or remains consistent.

Halo Infinite will have great numbers this holiday. I judge it based on what it's doing 3, 12, and 24 months after release.

Rust grows despite everything going against it.
Sea of Thieves has every advantage and it wilts when MS isn't advertising the hell out of it.
I dont know why Sea of Thieves seems to always be held to different standards to other high profile games that die within a year.
SOT is what 5 years old?, and it still pulls in the numbers. Its sales on Steam are pretty ridiculous.
 

TBiddy

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Counterpoint: Threads are more interesting with respectful disagreement. A Sea of Thieves thread loaded with "Congratulations Rare" responses = boredom.

I'm still rooting for Rare to have a FFXIV Reborn type moment with Sea of Thieves. I'd love to see that happen. But it's not going to happen if people don't understand or address the games faults in keeping players engaged.

Respectful disagreement is fine, but first page isn't "respectful disagreement" though.
 

Thirty7ven

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That goes for all games, not just GaaS. Why separate them?

Gaas games tend to have a lower price of entry, and if they are F2P or included in subcriptions services then number of players in a given month or life time don’t really allow us to appreciate how successful they are or not from a business standpoint. They are just numbers.

It’s also why we tend to cling to initial sales to determine a game’s financial success, as it becomes hard to appreciate how a game really does after it starts getting constant discounts and what not. The only ones who you can trust are Nintendo, as they really don’t drop in price.

Is this controversial for you? To be perfectly clear, I believe Sea of Thieves is a success either way.
 
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vaibhavpisal

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Counterpoint: Threads are more interesting with respectful disagreement. A Sea of Thieves thread loaded with "Congratulations Rare" responses = boredom.

I'm still rooting for Rare to have a FFXIV Reborn type moment with Sea of Thieves. I'd love to see that happen. But it's not going to happen if people don't understand or address the games faults in keeping players engaged.

There won't be any ff14 moment for this game. It's already successful and lauded.

If you are unable to enjoy it, just play a different game.

I don't like Animal Crossing. Doesn't mean Nintendo has to change it to appeal to me. A lot of people like it and it clearly is successful.
 

Dr Bass

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Clearly there are plenty of people enjoying this game. No need to try and argue people aren't. I would probably love this if I were a little younger and didn't purposefully stay away from GaaS types of games (honestly worried about getting TOO sucked in and spending too much time on them).

I might try it some day though ... :pie_thinking:
 

Men_in_Boxes

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I dont know why Sea of Thieves seems to always be held to different standards to other high profile games that die within a year.
SOT is what 5 years old?, and it still pulls in the numbers. Its sales on Steam are pretty ridiculous.

What high profile game, that dies within a year, is considered good. What double standard specifically are you referring to?

SoT is the Fidget Spinner of multiplayer. Successful, profitable, popular...and yet very few think Fidget Spinners are good toys. They're dust collectors.
 
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Goalus

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It's currently #26, even though there's a sale going on that occupies a large portion of the top 20.

Days Gone and Horizon Zero Dawn are nowhere to be seen though (which doesn't surprise me).
And now it's #19 :messenger_ok:
 

Men_in_Boxes

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Why is it when there are positive number on Xbox side for something it triggers so much?

mots great both both sides have games that people keep playing

Because some people don't care about console wars but are more curious about why certain games connect, or whiff, with the public.

Being team green (or blue or red) shouldn't protect a game from criticisms or discussion. Not everything attached to giant mega publishers needs to be a cheerleading thread.
 

Derktron

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Why is it when there are positive number on Xbox side for something it triggers so much?

mots great both both sides have games that people keep playing
People like the mainstream media in Politics, there is always a one-sided opinion it goes the same way for videogames. It's pathetic and gets tiring
 

Black_Stride

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I fail to see how knowing over 4 million logged into a game that is also available in a subscription service tells us anything about how good it is. Which is why I was looking at it from the business side, which is the framing of the OP really.

It’s inside baseball that’s all.

If people are playing it then it must be good....why would people keep pouring time into something they arent enjoying?
So the fact 4.8 million people came back or joined the fold in June tells us, and the developers they have created something that people are enjoying.....which is a good thing and a sign of a good game.

Note a said A sign not THE sign.

So from a business standpoint knowing youve created a good product that has the numbers meaning is a boon as your chances of monetizing it and/or the service its offered on are increased.
Someone might stick to Sea of Thieves and one other game and instead of buying the game outright they just keep the GP subscription going.
User engagement is a huge tentpole in the software world, you could have the best software out there that people use once then never use again.
If user keep coming back regardless of the lows that would be seen as a success.
So RARE is celebrating their latest content drop having brought this many players in June.

Im not 100% sure I understand what your issue is with them reporting how many active users they had in the month of June.
 
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Stuart360

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People like the mainstream media in Politics, there is always a one-sided opinion it goes the same way for videogames. It's pathetic and gets tiring
Try and take it as a reversed complment, it makes it easier.
Sea of Thieves and Gamepass, 2 things that have had years of trolling. What do they have in common?, both big success stories for Xbox.
 
Jun 21, 2020
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87th most played game on Steam right now.
37th most played game on XBL right now.

There's a reason why we only hear about this game during big marketing pushes. It fails to retain players.
It’s also about 2-3 years old… that probably doesn’t help does it?
 

TBiddy

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Gaas games tend to have a lower price of entry, and if they are F2P or included in subcriptions services then number of players in a given month or life time don’t really allow us to appreciate how successful they are or not from a business standpoint. They are just numbers.

Not really relevant to Sea of Thieves though, but nice try. It's still priced at 40€, more than three years after launch and isn't F2P. It's part of Game Pass, sure, but so are many single player games. Surely, you don't want to base their succes solely on how many money they've made on microtransactions?

You're not really fooling anybody though, so I almost regret taking your bait.
 
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Oct 26, 2018
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The game might be empty but clearly lots of people find it really immersive, and I can see that. Coop, pretty graphics, Pirates etc.

Rare finally made a modern staying name in the gaming space. I see people watching this game on twitch a lot.
I havent watched a tons of videos of this game over the years, but I think many people like it as a way to chill with people as opposed to being teammates in a shooter or sports where it's super serious and everyone is trying to win like their life depends on it.

Watching vids, its a combo of cheeky gameplay, goofing around and no opposition in your way making you break a sweat.
 

Men_in_Boxes

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It’s also about 2-3 years old… that probably doesn’t help does it?

Take a look at Steamcharts top 10 most played games. Specifically how old they all are. Also, it's less than a year old (I think) on Steam.

The game never charted high (outside of big marketing blitz months) on either XBL Most Played or Steamcharts.

The game sells well. It has never retained much of a player base.
 
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DJ Shalad

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Around 10,000 to 15,000 (24h) with a spike to 66,000 during June (best in 14 months). 400,000 to 600,000 monthly steam players. June being an exception.

4.8 million : 30 = 160,000 per 24h, of which 10,000 to 20,000 come from Steam, the rest of 140,000+ via gamepass (daily).

If we assume the drop on steam (66,000 to 10,000+) is similar on gamepass, the monthly numbers would be around 1,000,000+ people (300K via steam, 700K via gamepass). 4.8 million that´s more than WoW has ...
Craig Duncan, the studio head for Rare, recently tweeted about a few inaccuracies that he’d noticed online regarding Sea of Thieves’ matchmaking system. While it’s been suggested in the past that a world in Sea of Thieves would consist of 100 players within the world, Duncan said that that statement was incorrect and clarified what Rare’s vision is for the Sea of Thieves multiplayer environment. https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/sea-of-thieves-how-matchmaking-works/ At 100 unique per VM, they would need a few servers to manage that. If not mistaken, there can only be a max. of 4? ships with up to 6 ppl. on it?
I´m one of the 254 million Guild Wars 2 players that login just to get the rewards, the laurels for the past 8 years. I´m pretty sure, Arena Net counts that as a YES, a unique IP has logged in, he played for 5min!
 
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Juza

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The game is fun and it has potentials, but its problem is that it doesn't reward you for just investing time in it! meaning that 3 hours session maybe goes to waste with 0 progress if you getting robbed by PVP campers! that is what makes people try it first and drop it. and that is one of many reasons why it fails to retain players.

Unfortunately Rare cannot/don't want to improve the experience and balance the game! they're heavily focusing on cosmetics/mtxs.
 
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Three

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Steam charts don't show people playing on Windows 10 through the Xbox app or on the Xbox.



Yet that's why all you do is reply with the triggered emoticon.


Lies No GIF
And steam charts don't show people playing Dark Souls 3 on PS4/5, other stores, xbox. What's your point? It's a chart. Compared to other games. It's influx is it had PoTC content added people checked it out and dropped again on gamepass. That's likely where the "4.8 million" came from.
 
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IDappa

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I don't value a games metrics around an unsustainable marketing blitz.

I value a games metrics when other games are exercising their marketing blitz and it's player count grows or remains consistent.

Halo Infinite will have great numbers this holiday. I judge it based on what it's doing 3, 12, and 24 months after release.

Rust grows despite everything going against it.
Sea of Thieves has every advantage and it wilts when MS isn't advertising the hell out of it.
I still fail to see your point as this is the norm for most games. They all have a marketing/dlc push to get new users through and only a percentage of these users will stay. Even when SoT's numbers settle they are hardly anything to laugh at.

Not every game is going to set the world alight and continue doing so. You're going to have your big franchises like COD that sit in the minds of the general populace and sell and hold millions of players for the year and then you're going to have games like SoT that have good numbers that usually get a bump every few content drops.

Once they start losing people then you'll have a point. Until then I see it as a healthy game.
 

Three

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Wait what?

A GaaS game should be judged by user retention, if a game has a good gameplay loop and decent content drops people wont NEED to spend money on it and that game should be judged as being good.

I basically never spend money in any GaaS game I play cuz I dont really care about cosmetics if im enjoying the gameplay loop.
Judging a game on how much money is spent will lead to even sharkier monetization techniques than we have now.

Get the fuck outta here!
I think his point is that when a player has no reason not to click download (ie no monetary cost) it's easy to come up with stats like this especially with E3 and marketing blitzs. It doesn't mean those who tried it liked it or stayed though. Whereas monetary spend would mean they are willing to spend time/money on it. It's not a very good metric but it's slightly more meaningful when trying to boast about numbers.
 

Black_Stride

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I think his point is that when a player has no reason not to click download (ie no monetary cost) it's easy to come up with stats like this especially with E3 and marketing blitzs. It doesn't mean those who tried it liked it or stayed though. Whereas monetary spend would mean they are willing to spend time/money on it. It's not a very good metric but it's slightly more meaningful when trying to boast about numbers.
Sea of Thieves and Gamepass arent free?
So either way its a win if people are playing your game.

Either they bought YAY!
or they paid for Gamepass so your parent company is happy they paid for Gamepass and found something worthwhile.
Win/Win.

A $ spent by players metric would only make sense internally when new content hits the Emporium....find out what people actually want and give them more of it.
But why give us internal sales numbers....what exactly are we supposed to do with those numbers.

Me knowing there are a ton of people playing Sea of Thieves might make me want to give it a go.....these 4.8 million people cant all be idiots who lack taste, there must be something good/fun they are doing in the game.

So naturally ill give it a go.

Word of mouth even when forced down you throat is more effective and sends a more positive message to the general public than saying guess what players in our game on average spend 70 dollars every 6 months.
Im going to look at that company sideways even if its true im not going to want to join the "suckers".
 
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Gobjuduck

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Many have written Sea of Thieves off as a boring failure from Rare. But, in reality the game is quite fun and has been a huge success. It’s a hard pill to swallow, especially for some of the Xbox haters out there.

I’m glad Rare is making fun and unique games and not those terrible Kinect games.
 
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Three

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Sea of Thieves and Gamepass arent free?
So either way its a win if people are playing your game.

Either they bought YAY!
or they paid for Gamepass so your parent company is happy they paid for Gamepass and found something worthwhile.
Win/Win.

A $ spent by players metric would only make sense internally when new content hits the Emporium....find out what people actually want and give them more of it.
But why give us internal sales numbers....what exactly are we supposed to do with those numbers.

Me knowing there are a ton of people playing Sea of Thieves might make me want to give it a go.....these 4.8 million people cant all be idiots who lack taste, there must be something good/fun they are doing in the game.

So naturally ill give it a go.

Word of mouth even when forced down you throat is more effective and sends a more positive message to the general public than saying guess what players in our game on average spend 70 dollars every 6 months.
Im going to look at that company sideways even if its true im not going to want to join the "suckers".
I know gamepass ain't free. It has more than 4M subscribers though with or without Sea of Thieves. So these subscribers when they see pirates of the Caribbean plastered on thier dash or shown at E3 are more likely just to click on it and become an "active user" than somebody who has to for example pay $5 to play a dlc without additional microtransactions. The barrier for this metric is weak.

The 4.8 Million would not be playing the game currently. It was back in June with E3 and the PoTC expansion marketing. They aren't idiots but they might not be players either just for launching it. They clearly didn't stay because SoT fell back down in the most played charts already.
 

Havoc2049

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Gaas games tend to have a lower price of entry, and if they are F2P or included in subcriptions services then number of players in a given month or life time don’t really allow us to appreciate how successful they are or not from a business standpoint. They are just numbers.

It’s also why we tend to cling to initial sales to determine a game’s financial success, as it becomes hard to appreciate how a game really does after it starts getting constant discounts and what not. The only ones who you can trust are Nintendo, as they really don’t drop in price.

Is this controversial for you? To be perfectly clear, I believe Sea of Thieves is a success either way.
The game has been a success since day one. It launched at $60 in 2018, when Gamepass was less than a year old, and was #1 on the UK and #2 on the US retail charts the month it launched. SoT hit one million users within the first 24 hours. In late 2018, when Rare announced they hit 5 million users lifetime, they said about 40% of those users had purchased a copy. SoT launched at $60 in 2020 on Steam. Outside of Gamepass, SoT has retailed in the $20 - $60 range. According to the Steam charts, it looks like the game has sold over 4 million copies just on Steam. The game has probably sold 7-9 million copies. Then throw in the micro transactions, Season Passes and Gamepass money, and its easy to see that SoT has made Rare and Microsoft tons of money.
 

elliot5

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The game has been a success since day one. It launched at $60 in 2018, when Gamepass was less than a year old, and was #1 on the UK and #2 on the US retail charts the month it launched. SoT hit one million users within the first 24 hours. In late 2018, when Rare announced they hit 5 million users lifetime, they said about 40% of those users had purchased a copy. SoT launched at $60 in 2020 on Steam. Outside of Gamepass, SoT has retailed in the $20 - $60 range. According to the Steam charts, it looks like the game has sold over 4 million copies just on Steam. The game has probably sold 7-9 million copies. Then throw in the micro transactions, Season Passes and Gamepass money, and its easy to see that SoT has made Rare and Microsoft tons of money.
It's also lead to a lot of studio growth and expanding of the SOT team at Rare. Clearly they are reinvesting into the studio and game as it has been a success.