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[Opiate]

"Generally" isn't accurate, imo...

There have been so many games this gen that delivered on both fronts that saying this is generally the case just isn't true, at least among what would be considered AAA games.

There really haven't. There has been relatively little innovation on the AAA front this generation.

Doesn't matter if they weren't your personal cup of tea. I find platformers like Galaxy and DKCR very boring, but objectively speaking I understand why they've received the accolades they have despite not being my cup of tea.

I also find them boring, but as you say, that is irrelevant. I am not saying this because I don't like AAA games; I am saying this because they are objectively risk averse. Companies have explicitly stated they are risk averse on several occasions (THQ has, Take 2 has), let alone using basic economic principles.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

I think it's because of the note of desperation that the entire affair gave off. Nintendo fans will deny that that's what's going on obviously, but it sure felt like Nintendo was essentially screaming for attention after releasing their brand new console that the world all but ignored during the busiest shopping time of the year. It's a good move on their part to show their cards, but it doesn't do anything to lessen the impact of a lackluster launch or the fact that for months their release list is incredibly barren. Not to mention that on the horizon there are two brand new consoles that Nintendo is scared to death of since MSFT/Sony currently own the hearts/minds of two groups Nintendo desperately covet - core gamers and third parties. Also the message in the article that Nintendo is far behind the curve is accurate. They're still behind where Microsoft and Sony were 8 years ago. That's awful.

You seem to be in every single Nintendo thread saying how horrible the Wii U is. We get it, you're not happy with the console, but you don't have to go in every thread and remind everyone. I personally hate the Xbox brand after having 5 consoles and two DVD drives die on me, but I never go into Xbox threads and I never say something negative about the console.

So please stop. PLEASE.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

I don't understand why the pic of some character walking into a mech a flying of is getting such awe response, and it gets posted repeatedly, whether it makes sense or not.

If it was a character walking into an helicopter and flying off nobody would say it's impressive so I fail to see what's so impressive about that in particular.

your only looking at it in terms of graphics instead of the bigger picture of role playing which games allow us to do


Plus if you had to choose between flying a helicopter or a mech what would you choose?


It's a freaking mech, not hard to see why people who are fans of mechs are excited. Not too many(if ANY) JRPGs with open worlds that allow you to fly with mechs even though the systems are more than capable of doing it.

It's like people loving the LAST OF US GIF

where Joel ends the scene with a shotgun to a guys face. It's more than the graphics.
It's whats being shown, plus the developers history, plus the potential of the game that have people excited (who are a fan of the genre)

 

[FreedomFighter]

It was hugely successful, which the gaming press is afraid will show other publishers that they do not need ign/kotaku/etc. to market their games.

Which they don't.

The gaming press has become de factor PR firms for the publishers, reducing themselves to nothing more than an expendable commodity. Now that publishers will realize that they can go directly to the fans, there will be no reason for the gaming sites anymore.

And this scares the hell out of them.

Interesting...

I never thought of this. This would certainly explain the sudden backlash.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

How can Nintendo be isolated from next-gen market if it not even exists?

Sometimes these Nintendo critics needs to actually read what they write and check the logic in their arguments.

 

[farnham]

How can Nintendo be isolated from next-gen market if it not even exists?

Sometimes these Nintendo critics needs to actually read what they write and check the logic in their arguments.

they have been writing nothing but
"doooomed i tell you" for the last 10 or so years

 

[gamergirly]

The problem is that no one is saying they're doomed here. This entire argument is a strawman defense by Nintendo enthusiasts essentially covering their ears and humming anytime someone presents any sort of criticism of Nintendo's current business strategies. In the minds of you guys it seems that they can do no wrong and anyone who says otherwise is saying "DOOMED"!

Really? Then why are there 3 threads on the front page from the media past 5 pages having the same debate and nitpick about the company? If they can't speculate about some big news that was found out at a secret media briefing, they just talk bad about the company. Honestly, the media is starting to show desperation and frustration about Nintendo's coverage.

X |OT| Taking JRPGs to new heights

X is a gem. We need a Y and Z next

Should we just start responding with just cause 2 gifs every time someone post this?

We'll remember X longer than JC2 dude....just cause

 

[Baconsammy]

You seem to be in every single Nintendo thread saying how horrible the Wii U is. We get it, you're not happy with the console, but you don't have to go in every thread and remind everyone. I personally hate the Xbox brand after having 5 consoles and two DVD drives die on me, but I never go into Xbox threads and I never say something negative about the console.

So please stop. PLEASE.

I had 3 Wiis break (GPU fried by Wii Connect being enabled), 2 DS Lites had hinges simply fall apart, and a 3DS whose bottom screen scratched the top. I don't hate the brand because of that. Thus I keep buying them, because Nintendo makes enough games to keep me buying the hardware. That doesn't mean I can't criticize them (or Sony/Microsoft). It's cute that you want to control other people's speech, but it's not realistic. And believe it or not it's quite possible to be a Nintendo fan and still lament many of their choices/actions. It happens. Click on my ID, then choose the ignore option. My posts will disappear.

There really haven't. There has been relatively little innovation on the AAA front this generation.

Out of curiosity, what games do you play? I'm not the biggest fan of AAA games this gen either (most seem to involve guns etc, which I can live without), but there's been plenty to keep me occupied across all 3 platforms plus handhelds.

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

There really haven't. There has been relatively little innovation on the AAA front this generation.

Thank you for making this (broader) point, I feel like, if anything, the evidence over the last generation points overwhelmingly toward something far closer to the mutually exclusive relationship between innovation and (elaborate) graphics than the opposite.

 

[Opiate]

Out of curiosity, what games do you play? I'm not the biggest fan of AAA games this gen either (most seem to involve guns etc, which I can live without), but there's been plenty to keep me occupied across all 3 platforms plus handhelds.

Most multiplayer games, because I am very concerned with challenge in games and find virtually all single players games to be too easy, with occassional exceptions (Score attack games like Tetris; Ninja Gaiden, etc). I am currently playing a good deal of Natural Selection 2, and also play a great deal of Chess and Go almost all the time.

As a Chess fanatic, a game has to be particularly striking to catch my attention. I could never master Chess even if I played it for the rest of my life, so convincing me to pay money for a new game when I could just play Chess for free is an uphill battle.

 

[Opiate]

Thank you for making this (broader) point, I feel like, if anything, the evidence over the last generation points overwhelmingly toward something far closer to the mutually exclusive relationship between innovation and (elaborate) graphics than the opposite.

It isn't even something that is specific to gaming; it's a basic economic principle.

Increasing costs decreases risk incentives. If you are a large company, you may be willing to make a creative gamble with five hundred thousand dollars; if it's 100 million dollars, you're likely to be less willing to take those same risks.

This is evident in all industries, but can be observed most readily in other entertainment mediums like Film and Music. You will not see abstract art films given 100 million dollar budgets, or avante garde musicians given the Brittany Spears treatment.

 

[Baconsammy]

Most multiplayer games, because I am very concerned with challenge in games and find virtually all single players games to be too easy, with occassional exceptions (Score attack games like Tetris; Ninja Gaiden, etc). I am currently playing a good deal of Natural Selection 2, and also play a great deal of Chess and Go almost all the time.

As a Chess fanatic, a game has to be particularly striking to catch my attention. I could never master Chess even if I played it for the rest of my life, so convincing me to pay money for a new game when I could just play Chess for free is an uphill battle.

Chess. Good choice(I used to play speed chess in the park in NYC). Other than word games, I'm not into multiplayer much. My go-to games are Panel De Pon, Tetris, and Lumines.

 

[Thoraxes]

So basically anything Nintendo does right now is going to get criticized, right? Well, other than announcing Super Super Mario Universe for release next month?

They could announce a Super Mario Universe and people would still say it's desperation, franchise fatigue, Nintendo needs new IP, Nintendo is stuck in the past, Nintendo has lost sight of core gamers, etc.

It's the same shit for every single announcement. And every time people make it seem like none of the things announced were ever planned before they were shown, instead being created literally the night before with no notice that the games even existed to the developers making them.

It's what happens when you have the franchises like they do though, and a lot of people would kill for that kind of brand recognition.

 

[Can Crusher]

Jesus Opiate, you sound so rational. It's off putting even.

No harm intended

 

[Weltall Zero]

So, everything mentioned is exactly the same as last (this) gen, when Nintento swept the house, but now they're doomed. Huh?

 

[?oe?oe]

So, another graphics thread?

Wonderful 101 seriously is the most impressive game I've seen in a while. Not technically, but visually. Colour is a rare thing these days. Not even X or The Last Of Us can impress.

 

[Darryl]

I think painting it as an inside joke is not really representative of how it's employed. It's almost always used as a reaction to criticism that paints detractors as aloof and out of touch.

"I'm not sure if this Wii U is going to take off."

"LOL, that's what people said about the Wii and DS, and look how wrong they were!"

That's not to say that every single Nintendo fan uses that particular rhetoric, but it is used often. And it doesn't often come across in a winking fashion to fellow Nintendo fans.

no, i think painting it as a joke is accurate and how it is employed 99% of the time, but it can be used in a way that attempts to mock "detractors as aloof and out of touch". maybe you don't browse nintendo threads outside of the controversial ones, but it is very much an inside joke. it's not a "strawman defense by Nintendo enthusiasts essentially covering their ears and humming anytime someone presents any sort of criticism of Nintendo's current business strategies.". that entire sentence is all shades of ridiculous.

 

[Version 3.0]

Are these supposed to be remarkably impressive?

I think they look quite nice. Don't know what they are, though.

 

[airmangataosenai]

no, i think painting it as a joke is accurate and how it is employed 99% of the time, but it can be used in a way that attempts to mock "detractors as aloof and out of touch". maybe you don't browse nintendo threads outside of the controversial ones, but it is very much an inside joke. it's not a "strawman defense by Nintendo enthusiasts essentially covering their ears and humming anytime someone presents any sort of criticism of Nintendo's current business strategies.". that entire sentence is all shades of ridiculous.

Have you read the first page of this thread? Every thread detracting Nintendo goes the exact same way. We get the "Dooooomed" people and the "vgjounalismlol" crew. If it was one or two people it would be fine but collectively it is disruptive, contributes nothing to the discussion, and feels like it's aimed at preventing any serious discussion of anything that the original poster was attempting to facilitate.

 

[Darryl]

Have you read the first page of this thread? Every thread detracting Nintendo goes the exact same way. We get the "Dooooomed" people and the "vgjounalismlol" crew. If it was one or two people it would be fine but collectively it is disruptive, contributes nothing to the discussion, and feels like it's aimed at preventing any serious discussion of anything that the original poster was attempting to facilitate.

did you even read the OP

 

[airmangataosenai]

did you even read the OP

Yeah, I just noticed that he did it too. My complaint is more about threads of this kind than this thread in particular.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I had 3 Wiis break (GPU fried by Wii Connect being enabled), 2 DS Lites had hinges simply fall apart, and a 3DS whose bottom screen scratched the top. I don't hate the brand because of that. Thus I keep buying them, because Nintendo makes enough games to keep me buying the hardware. That doesn't mean I can't criticize them (or Sony/Microsoft). It's cute that you want to control other people's speech, but it's not realistic. And believe it or not it's quite possible to be a Nintendo fan and still lament many of their choices/actions. It happens. Click on my ID, then choose the ignore option. My posts will disappear.

I'm with you. I don't know why it can't be understood that a person can be a fan of a company and its games, yet at the same time be very frustrated with their recent business decisions and upset at the quality of some of their software.

Please don't stop. I also do not hate Nintendo and still plan on buying the certain titles they produce that appeal to me. It just seems that there are glaringly obvious missteps in some of their tactics. I frequent these type of threads and speak out not because I hate them but because I care.

 

[evilromero]

It sounds familiar...doesn't it...

2005:



2013:

Except when that article was written the Wii wasn't out. Hell, the DS wasn't out. Those disrupted the market upon impact (DS when Nintendogs, Brain Age). The 3DS and Wii U so far have not.

 

[Darryl]

Yeah, I just noticed that he did it too. My complaint is more about threads of this kind than this thread in particular.

i think threads like this, especially the Pachter-related ones, just get posted for us to collectively make fun of. this article is nothing news-worthy nor insightful.

 

[QaaQer]

Have you read the first page of this thread? Every thread detracting Nintendo goes the exact same way. We get the "Dooooomed" people and the "vgjounalismlol" crew. If it was one or two people it would be fine but collectively it is disruptive, contributes nothing to the discussion, and feels like it's aimed at preventing any serious discussion of anything that the original poster was attempting to facilitate.

I tend to skip the first page of these threads.

 

[tkscz]

Every console generation analyst say this about Nintendo, every console generation Nintendo makes profit and moves on. So why is it this still repeats? I mean, this is like the 5th thread on someone saying this. this week. Isn't it getting a little tiresome?

 

[ffdgh]

Every console generation analyst say this about Nintendo, every console generation Nintendo makes profit and moves on. So why is it this still repeats? I mean, this is like the 5th thread on someone saying this. this week. Isn't it getting a little tiresome?

Those who do not learn from the past are likely to repeat it.

 

[NickMitch]

The next gen can't come soon enough so this tedious debate can come to an end. Who in their right mind can state that they know how the future will unfold itself.

The world is doomed.

 

[Dion Blaster]

Nintendo games generally don't see a price drop for a long stretch of time. Furthermore, Xenoblade seems to have had a very limited run. Copies are going on Ebay for well over retail price.

Your best bet is to check local stores. Gamestop will occasionally have a used game in stock online.

Damn just a month ago there were quite a few copies in my area. Now there are no new copies within 100 miles and 1 used 40 miles away.

 

[soulassssns]

As nice as this gif is, and as nice as it is to see it repeatedly linked in thread after thread, it does absolutely nothing to disprove the point in the OP about being behind next gen standards.

What exactly IS next gen standards? I havent seen a thing that screams next gen, yet we have a standard for it?

 

[JazzmanZ]

What exactly IS next gen standards? I havent seen a thing that screams next gen, yet we have a standard for it?

the standard is, if your game doesnt look hyper realistic, its not next gen.

 

[Subtle]

Yeah, but he was wrong when the Wii came out because it resonated with the casual market.

The Wii U hasn't, and most likely won't.

Well yeah it's easy to say that when looking back. I wonder how silly you'll feel in a few years.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

What exactly IS next gen standards? I havent seen a thing that screams next gen, yet we have a standard for it?

It's a definition that changes according to the user's personal preferences.

It certainly doesn't mean a generational leap to new hardware for those who hate Nintendo, though.

 

[outunderthestars]

Damn just a month ago there were quite a few copies in my area. Now there are no new copies within 100 miles and 1 used 40 miles away.

Same in my area. Looks like they are going to sell out the print run. Could be the next Panzer Dragoon Saga.

 

[AzaK]

The threads it is constantly posted in.

It is becoming the . of responses.

.

Yeah and the people trolling and being dickheads aren't shitting up threads?

 

[B-Dubs]

the standard is, if your game doesnt look hyper realistic, its not next gen.

Even if that is going to be the next gen standard, we aren't going to see games like that for a couple of years. 360 titles sure as hell didn't look as good as they do now when the console launched. It took a few years for everyone to learn the hardware and how to work it. It's always like that.

 

[tehrik-e-insaaf]

If you like risk averse game design, then perhaps nothing is lost for you in particular. As someone who finds almost the entirety of the Xbox 360 and PS3 retail libraries to be boring, that isn't the case for me, and apparently many others.

Truth. One of the reasons why I am extremely glad Nintendo made Wii U the way they did - there is amazing middleware out there now for 360/PS3/Wii U that is going to help developers (and especially indie developers) get really good results without going bankrupt...

I'm extremely excited to see the awesome games Nintendo is going to deliver this generation given their focus on lean and efficient teams and their very clear collaborations with other Japanese studios as well. I honestly want to see them expand their development presence and relationships in Japan, US and EU and just do incredible collaborations - software is what wins console wars - not hardware

If Nintendo delivers 40 great mid to high profile games (internally and with third parties) that are unique and exclusive to the Wii U and enjoyable by Jan 2018, delivers a few new IPs, gives me an awesome indie market, updates older IPs like Star Fox, fixes the lack of a unified account problem with 3DS+WiiU, gets great net code into their games as standard and part of their core development kit, resolves all OS issues and bugs, expands MiiVerse across devices and makes it an awesome experience and something that parents can let their kids use without worrying too much, continues to develop TVii... It will have been an incredibly great generation IMHO... Even if they see a 30% sales decline to 70M units... They will have made a lot of money and delighted a lot of people and laid a strong foundation for the next-generation... I also think Japanese studios will benefit from Nintendo's collaborations quite a bit and hopefully the industry in Japan is much healthier and improved over the next five years as a result...

I'll still enjoy my high-end PC and late into the gen, I'll eventually get a PS4 for whatever first party titles Sony puts out and anything that doesn't hit PC... Unless MSFT comes up with some compelling exclusives outside Halo, I'll pass on 720 (ironic because I bought mostly 360 titles this generation)...

 

[Cipherr]

What exactly did the Nintendo Direct do to cause all of this????

It delivered.

 

[Meesh]

Well...I suppose all the criticism is good for one thing. It keeps them monumentally focused on making great games.

 

[KingJ2002]

im buying a Wii U... fuck that article

the doom and gloom is only around because people want to play nintendo games on other systems.

these guys who write these articles look at them as if they're SEGA... and they just refuse to die.

why do we entertain these guys?

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

These yokels won't be right if Nintendo is well, doomed sometime in the future. Vested interests and all that.

 

[Bsigg12]

I think the issue here is while Nintendo roles the same IPs every year, they produce quality games with those IPs. However, third party plays a humongous role in this current generation (not including Wii U yet). The Wii had mediocre at best 3rd party support and sold tons of units because it was a fad. Wiggle controls were stupidly popular, the system behind those controls though could not handle what 3rd parties wanted to do.

Now Nintendo has finally stepped into a ring with the 360 and PS3, and people will always claim that Nintendo systems are about the gameplay, not the graphics, but if a 3rd party can't easily port from the Durango or Orbits, I expect the Wii U to be the 1.5 equivalent to the 360/PS3.

I own a Wii U, but I still feel Nintendo could have, and should have done better with the initial price they are asking on these consoles.

Do I believe Nintendo is doomed? No, they are not because they have a ravenous fan base who will buy anything they release, but its hard to see a silver lining with the Wii U when we know much more capable devices are months away.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

why do we entertain these guys?

I would venture a guess that people like having or manufacturing heels to direct their ire at. Nothing in the linked article is particularly offensive. It's just an analyst with a broad understanding of software and tech companies making claims that make a whole lot if horse sense so long as you ignore Nintendo's business model and how crucial it is for Nintendo games to be available exclusively on Nintendo platforms.

So, while I agree he's off base, I think people think everyone that does this kind of speculation is some Pachter-esque goofball. And I don't necessarily think that's the case. But still, it makes for more interesting theater to paint these analysts as heels out to get Nintendo.

 

[RazorK1d]

For real though it's starting to drive me batty.

"Nintendo is failing because they haven't implemented [______] that Competing Console B has implemented."

Why do all the machines need to be the same? Why must there be feature parity, why must they have similar goals, why must they shoot for similar markets? Who came up with the RULE that "the market" is a homogenous thing that must be approached by all comers in the same fashion and from the same direction? Just because one machine does something cool, why do all of the other machines HAVE TO DO IT OH GOD OH MAN better do it, better do the same thing all over the place. Better have three identical machines, because choice is bad, and different methods are stupid.

Why can't a Nintendo console just be a thing, and a Sony console be a thing, and a Microsoft console be a thing, and they are things, and we buy them.

Because then people's heads would explode from all that cool-headed rationality.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

The OP is only stating the obvious. Not sure how anyone can say otherwise.

 

[Nerazar]

Nintendo should play their own game. That's what they can do best.

Playing by the rules of any other company would ruin the company. So I don't hope that they will ever release their gaming portfolio on GooglePlay, iOS or any other service. That's when the real problems start...

 

[freddy]

I would venture a guess that people like having or manufacturing heels to direct their ire at. Nothing in the linked article is particularly offensive. It's just an analyst with a broad understanding of software and tech companies making claims that make a whole lot if horse sense so long as you ignore Nintendo's business model and how crucial it is for Nintendo games to be available exclusively on Nintendo platforms.

So, while I agree he's off base, I think people think everyone that does this kind of speculation is some Pachter-esque goofball. And I don't necessarily think that's the case. But still, it makes for more interesting theater to paint these analysts as heels out to get Nintendo.

This is starting to sound just as ridiculous as what you are claiming the "Nintendo Fans" are doing. Despite the guy being off-base and painting broad strokes without taking the big picture into account, you are willing to believe that any criticism off him is from a bias fanboy? This isn't a reasonable position at all.

Sorry, but while I cant stand console warriors, people who see one behind every tree and openly imply anyone who takes a certain position is one, are just as bad or worse in my book.

 

[Rajack]

With the way the industry is headed, being isolated from the main market actually might be a GOOD thing...

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

So this gif is now just gonna be the go-to response for all the "NINTENDO IS DOOMED/WIIU GRAPHCIS IS FUGLY" posts?

Cause I'm totally ok with that.

 

[Kevin]

I don't own a Wii U yet but their recent game unveilings have sold me on one. Sure the graphics might not be "next gen" but it's the software titles that are selling me the new system and not graphics.