MilkyJoe
Member
no shit
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Scorpio presentation pictured within AMD's Vega/Ryzen booth
- Thread starter leeh
- Start date
no shit
Yeah, 1.8 is the same as 500.
And lets also forget the bandwidth and everything else we dont know about.
I've said the same, I was told it was the same as this current generation.
Aceofspades
Banned
1.8 TF will be eaten going to higher resolutions than PRO. Native 4K is demanding as hell
I wish Scorpio would use CBR and keep it's GPU power to achieve better graphics.
Resolution isn't everything, and if they set it at the same level as the pro, it will absolutely look better, but if they insist on doing 4k, it might fall short.
I'm afraid that the whole 4K marketing will just lead to stuff like Halo 5 hitting 60fps at the expense of everything else.
Best scenario would be giving people choices, like in ROTRR Pro.
LiquidSolid
Member
This is pretty self explanatory. Zen is a brand new architecture. Jaguar wasn't, it was basically just an improved Bobcat (6 year old tech).
Yeah, so? That doesn't change the fact that their desktop APUs are not suited for the consoles Sony and Microsoft want to build. There were 17W and 35W Richland APUs back in 2013, Microsoft and Sony still went with Jaguar over it. You're putting way too much emphasis on wattage and not enough on die size.
Brad Grenz
Member
Are you going to feel stupid if you're proven right but the damn thing costs $700?
ethomaz
Banned
He is right.
I remember PS4 being 40% stronger and CHEAPER releasing together. Scorpio will be 40% stronger and EXPENSIVE a year late.
The calling dead MS was because it was $100 expensive for a inferior hardware compared with PS4.... how do you sell that???
What if that game is 900p on Pro, now what?
How do you know the price? Magic 8 ball
LukasTaves
Member
0.5tf was also eaten getting from 900p to 1080p but it was well spent as the increased in resolution delivered a crisper picture.
In Service
Member
I don't think he needs magic balls to make that prediction really. It's got to be more at the time that Scorpio releases.
P.S. I love "kiss and make up" GAF in these threads.
Primethius
Banned
For a exclusive title, that'll probably result in some significant improvements.
For a multiplatform title, not much.
Bits N Pieces
Member
It will generate a 20+ page Digital Foundry thread?
So speculation? No hard facts it's more than pro?
Samurai G0SU
Member
The only problem with this is Shinobi said dev kits aren't even out yet and wont be out until Feb/March most likely.
So is there some slide out there that is detailing all of what Scorpio has already? Nah i dont think so - due to the fact many developers were also surprised by the announcement of Scorpio at e3. As in that was the first time they heard of it too.
So the speculation should still be out there. Just not some outlandish claim on either end. I cant wait to see what the final spec is and what it will do for my current and future library!
Bits N Pieces
Member
The only problem with this is Shinobi said dev kits aren't even out yet and wont be out until Feb/March most likely.
So is there some slide out there that is detailing all of what Scorpio has already? Nah i dont think so - due to the fact many developers were also surprised by the announcement of Scorpio at e3. As in that was the first time they heard of it too.
So the speculation should still be out there. Just not some outlandish claim on either end. I cant wait to see what the final spec is and what it will do for my current and future library!
This is it.
Aceofspades
Banned
Sony mandated a minimum of 1080p for PRO games as far as I remember.
PeterLegend
Member
Would be hilarious if it costs $599 LOL
Cant wait to see the memes
Cant wait to see the memes
I wasnt referring to 4k tv marketshare when i said "more bang for the buck", but rather a games graphical bells and whistles. Im sure im not alone in thinking that using 6tf of power to make 4k xbox1 games is a bit of a joke.
In Service
Member
Samurai G0SU
Member
This is it.
you know what i mean by me saying "all".
And you knew i was implying another slide pointed to devs, not the public who visit xbox.com.Bits N Pieces
Member
Bits N Pieces
Member
you know what i mean by me saying "all".
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Which pill have we swallowed today, the red or blue lol?
Samurai G0SU
Member
WhyNotBoth.gif
Primethius
Banned
It's going to be $399. I'm almost certain. There is no way MS is going above $399 unless this is aiming for relatively non-existent levels of market share.
Sounds wrong there, bruh.
vpance
Member
The return of subsidized consoles then? Can't see it costing any less than $450 to manufacture.
Primethius
Banned
I think that if MS has to take a loss on it, they will. Because while I'm sure they would like to make a profit on each sold, I also think they want to be able to sell the console to make it somewhat of a success.
And MS is going second, so they have data from the Pro launch available. They know what kind of market is out there for these sorts of upgrades and they also know that they are far more limited in actual markets vs. Sony. And unfortunately for them, one of their main markets (or even two really) is extremely price sensitive.
It's going to be $399 or lower.
Liabe Brave
Member
Or even every couple years. And the slow uptake of PS4 Pro is one result, and should be very worrying to Microsoft. Scorpio may well grab the eye of those early tech adopters you mentioned. But that's a niche group, yet somehow people seem to think it'll also somehow boost the Xbox market as a whole. For most consumers, Scorpio will simply be the most expensive console on the market.
therealbigrich
Member
you know what i mean by me saying "all".
I'm not the biggest tech guy but we know it's going to be 6 teraflops and use AMD . Isnt that enough for devs to build a test rig and start testing games ? Just curious
hanspampel
Banned
xbox one soc 363mm cpu cores about ~ 1/6 of diesize
carrazio soc ~250mm cpu cores about 1/5 of diesize (4 cores only, tho)
die size is no problem at all.
here is a real dieshot of the kaveri apu (predecessor of carazzio). pretty similar design, but i don't think there are real die shots of carrazio out there
yeah that should developers adress. give options for either 4k or 1080p high fidelity. maybe even a third high FPS option.
but from a marketing and technology standpoint for microsoft and sony, 4k is the right horse to bet on
Samurai G0SU
Member
From my understanding, we need more information like what type of chips will be on the board, what size the cpu/gpu will be, what architecture and more like the above post detailing the board of the xbox one.
some could try to build a rig to 'mimic' a potential 6tf gpu rig, but we still need more information regarding the exact RAM and the exact type of performance the cpu will provide.
the tech folks could chime in more and provide the exact details they need in order to replicate something near project scorpio.
So far they only have 6TF of GPU power, 8 CPU cores and memory bandwidth of 320/gbps
What if its $399, will you cry? Now that would be a meme I would like to see
If it's $399 I doubt the Pro will stay at $399 so most likely it'll always be the most expensive console unless MS decides to eat the cost on it. I don't see that happening as bundles are the new "discount". Way cheaper then discounting hardware and still increases value
SenjutsuSage
Banned
That leaves out a lot of important information while assuming that everything else is the same. Are you forgetting about the possible ram difference, which may be an additional 4GB on Scorpio compared to the Pro? There is the memory bandwidth differences between the two, and, unlike was the case between PS4 and XB1, Scorpio's GPU is expected to have a whole AMD graphics IP generation difference from what's in the PS4 Pro. The difference between Scorpio and PS4 Pro will, for all intents and purposes, be much bigger than was ever the case between PS4 and XB1.
The advantages that the PS4 had over the XB1 will simply not be like for like equivalent to the advantages Scorpio is expected to have over PS4 Pro, especially if Scorpio isn't packing Jaguar Scores and likely ends up with some form of Zen CPU.
No, I wouldn't. I'd still buy it, but I already know it won't cost anywhere near that much. Now, I pose a similar question. Will you feel stupid if I'm proven right, but the thing costs less than $550, which I'm betting everyone here it will.
It's going to sell for anything between $499 and $550. $569.99 would be the highest it goes.
hanspampel
Banned
devkits should be out already - "pc devkits", that match the trageted specs
xbox scorpio will be a q4 release. so probably late october / early november just like ps4 pro
mass production has to start end of q3 in september
tape out for the finalized scorpio soc should be at the end of q1 or early q2, so around march / april this year
vpance
Member
It'll be tough. If the market for mid gen refresh consoles is as small as it seems to be, even for Sony, then taking a loss of $50 - $100 makes no sense.
Yup. They are not oblivious enough to go above 399, methinks. That's around the maximum pricepoint the current market will bear for a console. They aren't going to get caught with their pants down with a 499 box again anytime soon. They learned that lesson with the XB1, power be damned.
And I think they can realistically put out a 6TF box at that pricerange in late 2017. Sony will possibly have the PS4 Pro at around 299-329 by then, replacing the current model PS4 entirely.
Primethius
Banned
Well, that's just the circumstances MS is in and there's not much they can do to make the situation into a "perfect" one as opposed to making the best of it.
Bits N Pieces
Member
I don't think there is anyway on this earth that the Pro doesn't get a discount ethier before or just as the Scorpio releases. Maybe down to $349 with a game packed in?
Scorpio will be the most expensive console on the market, will it represent value to core gamers, thats the question?
If it wasn't for Pro, then Switch would likely be the most expensive console on the market at its launch. It's meaningless really, as you say, it's not about price, it's about value. And if Scorpio is basically just to Xbox One what Pro is to PS4, then we can see even Sony has already struggled to push its value proposition.
I don't think MS is designing or marketing this for the price conscious consumers. They have the XBOS for those people. I also don't think they expect Scorpio to dramatically increase their market share.
IMO Scorpio will be an enthusiast machine at launch for people who are willing to spend 2-2.5x the price for 4x the performance.
In Service
Member
Sounds wrong there, bruh.
A love between two GAFers is never wrong.
Samurai G0SU
Member
the thing is - Sony doesnt even need to have a price slash with how good they are already selling. They only reduced the price for the SLIM because of the PRO launching.
I dont think the scorpio scares them that much. They own world wide sales and a temporary $50 price cut would be enough for them during the holidays. doubt they even need it due to the strong loyalty and brand Sony has.
That's a fool's game. Keeping the Scorpio marketshare tiny like that by catering to a niche enthusiast crowd is a surefire way to have the hardware go underutilized by devs that will just keep catering their efforts to the vast majority of conventional XB1 devices. What would the incentive for the developers be? Sure we're all dreaming of a future where every game simply scales upwards to make use of additional hardware, but that's not happening with consoles anytime soon.
Paying more for 4x the performance sounds great on paper. But you realize you're still beholden to the developers who have to actually put in effort to make their games shine on an additional hardware setup that barely anyone will own.
Nah, I think they have to go mass-market and slowly phase out the old XB1, considering the Scorpio it's official replacement.
The whole concept of a mid-life refresh console is niche. We can see this with the sales of the PS4 Pro even though it's priced at $399. Heck 4K and VR, both key features of Scorpio, are also niche.
The incentive for devs would be the same as it is for the Pro, it's a requirement. The whole point of the game mode tools with UWA is for games to scale between XBO, Scorpio, and PC. We already see games scale from XBO/PS4 to PC just fine. It's also already been confirmed that games now with dynamic resolutions or unlocked frame rates will take advantage of the scorpio's power without any additional work from the developers.
Barely anyone owns a Pro compared to the OG PS4 but it's receiving support just fine. Higher quality assets are already produced for the PC and can be used on these refreshed consoles.
Scorpio is not the official replacement of XBO, it's an additional option in the Xbox "family". XBOS/PS4 is for the mainstream while PS4 Pro/Scorpio are for the more core audience who care more about IQ and are typically the early adopters.
I do agree that the OG PS4/XBOS will be phased out but only once their true next gen consoles launch.
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