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Russia Considers Returning Snowden to U.S. to Curry Favor With Trump: Official
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
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flintstryker
Banned
Yeah I agree he should have stayed and get rightfully fucked by the noble USA USA USA!! Justice system
jakonovski
Member
It's so weird, the one thing uniting America is that they all want dead someone who tries or has tried to make America a better place.
Alex Stroud
Banned
Well, he did play himself, after all. Off with his head!
sugarhigh4242
Banned
Nationalism: liberals and conservatives agree!
The courts are clear that executive agencies cannot overstep their authority. You are misreading Smith v. Jones, which does not talk about the legality of an executive agency doing something not authorized by Congress. Smith v. Jones doesn't even involve an executive agency.
US v. Jones did not involve a statutory challenge.
The 2nd Circuit ruled that Congress did not authorize the bulk metadata collection program under the statutory authority claimed by the government and that the Freedom Act specifically prohibits such a program. You actually are claiming that an executive branch can have programs that Congress do not authorize or specifically prohibit. That is executive overreach.
Courts rule on whether Congress have authorized executive agencies to conduct certain activities all the time. There is no merit to your claim that when a court finds that Congress had not authorized certain activities, or if a court finds that Congress had prohibited certain activities, that the executive branch still has authorization to engage in the activities.
The 2nd Circuit specifically said it was prohibited:
The Freedom Act also prohibited the use of pen registers for bulk collection:
What has happened since Snowden's surveillance disclosures? The public now know about a bunch of NSA oddly-named surveillance programs and what has changed? Did people naively think that organisations like the NSA wern't running operations like the ones that were leaked? There's a reason why they have a very high annual electricity bill. Haven't you guys seen "Enemy of the State"? What has his whistleblowing accomplished apart from warning terrorists and criminals that they need to be more cautious?
That's on the US; not on Snowden. He threw his life away in the hopes people would care.
kame-sennin
Member
Thank you.
The truth is the average citizen doesn't care if they are being watched by the likes of the NSA and GCHQ He wasted his time. The popularity of Facebook suggests that people are all too happy to give their information away these days in order to be a part of the digital society. The only people who care about his leaks are privacy advocates and computer security geeks.
benjipwns
Banned
Yeah, I'm sure this is how they found out they might be being spied on. Not when thousands of their fellow travelers (or random males in the same geographic area) were rounded up and stuck in a questionably leased military base for a few years or more.
Not the hundreds of domestic criminal trials. Not all the television shows glorifying it.
"Holy crap! Did you see this Snowden stuff?!? Stay safe GAF."
Manning was tortured with sleep deprivation and has been driven to attempted suicide.
I'm not sure how Snowden was meant to have foreseen the commutation of Manning's sentence.
sugarhigh4242
Banned
Prior to the Snowden leaks, various lawsuits from the ACLU and others were dismissed for lack of standing:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/07/06/court.domestic.spying/index.html?iref=nextin
After the Snowden leaks, these lawsuits could be heard, the ACLU won the lawsuit, which led to reforms to the 215 bulk metadata program:
https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-fre...urt-victory-against-mass-surveillance-matters
Also, this logic of "were you really that naive" is a total apology for the state. I've seen this trajectory so many times now since 9/11. First, the government does some shit. Then the press reports on it using leaks. The government continues to deny it. More reporting proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt. Now government apologists say "everybody knew this already it's not shocking".
You can see this with the drone war, the bulk NSA surveillance, the DNC/Podesta emails, and it's ongoing with the underreported cyber war programs. The US government still denies involvement in Stuxnet, for example.
What I mean is this gives them a more detailed picture of the methods used eg intercepting laptops in transit to plant a "tool". Snowden just gave America's enemies more information - those are the people who have benefitted from these leaks - not the average citizen.
benjipwns
Banned
He should have known that the man who claimed authority to murder American citizens without due process is totally cool and would have his back and he had no reason to fear just like Aaron Swartz.
You can plant bugs on laptops used by terrorists and by non-terrorists. Google and Apple have been examining their server equipment more closely to protect their users from government snooping.
sugarhigh4242
Banned
Jeez, every time I'm reminded of Aaron Schwartz my blood boils. We need a fucking revolution in this country.
Yeah, but the technology exists. There is no way of truly knowing that something has been shutdown completely even after it has been exposed. My point is, the NSA could say that they will shut everything down tomorrow and you still couldn't be sure that they aren't running some secret black project in a remote location that allows them to continue with their operations.
Yeah, perhaps, the security conscious and those in the tech industry will be more cautious. But the average Joe or Jane ordering a Dell laptop from Amazon isn't going to care even if they are aware of these leaks. A lot of apps on smartphones slurp data and track locations yet so many people do not disable such features. Why would they care about the NSA spying on them when they are willingly giving away their data?
Edit: damn double post
They don't have to spy on normal people directly to affect their lives. They just need to spy on political figures. Most black people weren't spied on by the FBI - but MLK was.
Apps and websites that track personal data ought to keep that data safe and use it very narrowly for specific and stated purposes, then delete it once it is no longer needed (see Data Protection Act in Europe). It should not be made available to governments without due process. Before Snowden's leaks we did not know that the government was able to bypass due process to such an extent.
This demonstrates why it's important not to prosecute and torture whistleblowers.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Nah, Obama cracked down on whistleblowers harder than any other president. They'd have made an example of Snowden.
I mean, he's clearly learning this lesson after he learned his lesson to not trust the American Government.
"He should've just stayed! Obama probably would've taken him out for a beer and pardoned him!"
Mass_Pincup
Banned
You watch too many movies.
Poor kid he did not deserved it and the only way out was killing him self
he did amazing things and yet you're american system on be it hackers or whistleblowers is terrible.Snowden had a cushy job before he decided to risk everything. His biggest mistake was trusting in the decency and integrity of the American government and it's people.
Truthbomb
Truthbomb
That would have never happened! Before Trump, we had a bunch of fucking canonized saints running the country.
That is just a lie. More people than ever care about data security and became aware of their insecurity. Of course, some are fine with it. Some are fine with racism and sexism. People were fine with living under fascist regimes.
But that should noone stop to go against it.
I don't expect you to know that, but China and Hong Kong are a bit different.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Nope, clearly Putin got the idea from my post
Putin turning over Snowden to Trump was such an obvious move that just about anyone with knowledge of the situation could see it coming
hydrophilic attack
Member
yeah it's disappointing to see
(i say this as someone who would've supported hillary were i american btw)
tiredheadcrab
Member
While I like what Snowden did, because it helped tell us a lot about our spy agencies, I would have rather faced trial under Obama than to settle in Russia. Of all places Russia would be somewhere at the bottom of a list. It's a card for Putin play and he will play it if he has to. Now he is in a worse position than he can realize.
Unless he became a useful idiot for Putin after he was granted asylum, then I can see Putin urging Trump to pardon him. Because Trump has some weird thing with Putin going on that we dont yet know about.
Unless he became a useful idiot for Putin after he was granted asylum, then I can see Putin urging Trump to pardon him. Because Trump has some weird thing with Putin going on that we dont yet know about.
sugarhigh4242
Banned
Why are yiu taking about "Trump's idea"? The claim is sourced (as usual) an anonymous intelligence official.
Not alot of people care. The amount of people who think Snowden is a hero or should be pardoned is even lower than Trumps approval ratings. Honestly with the stuff you see from Hollywood and such, im fairly sure most people could imagine that bodies like the CIA and NSA frequently spied and eavedropped on people. Anybody familar with privacy laws might have been shocked and offended but how many people do you think that is realistically?
Phoenix RISING
Banned
That post tells me you are unaware of the world outside of the US. And that you like asspulls.
What does this post even mean? I lived over half my life in Europe and the Middle East.
There may be other places where he is favored but in America most people didnt seem to be phased much by his revelations. Im not pulling that out of my ass...
Some interesting timing this weekend. Just as Trump heads down to Mar-A-Lago a Russian Oligarch who has had personal dealings with Trump suddenly arrives in the area.
Seems harmless but consider this. Multiple times throughout the Campaign the plane this Russian Oligarch owns showed up at Campaign stops such as in Vegas and New Hampshire. This particular Oligarch Paid trump 100 million dollars for a House Trump bought for 40 million. Never once set foot in the house and in fact intends to tear it down.
Seems harmless but consider this. Multiple times throughout the Campaign the plane this Russian Oligarch owns showed up at Campaign stops such as in Vegas and New Hampshire. This particular Oligarch Paid trump 100 million dollars for a House Trump bought for 40 million. Never once set foot in the house and in fact intends to tear it down.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Because in my years of reading GAF, it seems to me that many Americans on this forum don't actually believe that the US Government, especially the Obama administration would do anything depraved or immoral. When stories like this get the response they get or you get a load of people shouting down similar stories as conspiracy then it tells you all you need to know.
Fried Food
Banned
Don't really understand some of the replies in this thread.
PdotMichael
Banned
We have also people on GAF who defend Obama's liberal use of drone strikes.
Bunch of hypocrites.
Source?
excelsiorlef
Member
When he started divulging information that compromised american lives overseas and sold it to Russia, he was -beyond any doubt- committing treason and he should be tried for those crimes.
Also, he won't be the first Trump supporter to get bitten by his favorite fascist
He wasn't anywhere close to a Trump supporter come on.
excelsiorlef
Member
Katie Couric interviewed him like not long ago.
Very interesting if true.
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