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[Rumor] New PS5 model to have New 5nm APU and No Liquid Metal

Imtjnotu

Imtjnotu

Member
XesqueVara said:
7nm isn't going anywhere for a long time, and even if 5nm is more common it don't means it's cheaper tho.
Click to expand...
Sony at 7nm was getting roughly 131 chips per wafer at $10k.

Tsmc has said it is roughly $17k for a 300mm wafer. So with yields in the same range as before at roughly 75%, we're talking dollar differences between the pricing of 5nm and 7nm.

Sony already purchased the slot for 2023 tsmc 5nm. The chip will be less than a $4 difference per wafer
 
DaGwaphics

DaGwaphics

Member
Gobjuduck said:
They just need to make it less ugly, which isn’t very hard.
Click to expand...

That's my hope for it. At least 20 or 30% smaller, twice the storage, and not a weird design.

They've discovered the ability to sell people embarrassingly overpriced plate sets, thus I'd expect the side plates to be maintained in some way. Just make them flat though please. :messenger_grinning_smiling:

The removal of the liquid metal would obviously be great down the road for people that like to collect these. A lot easier to swap out for new paste or a fresh thermal pad.
 
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Eotheod

Eotheod

Member
The PS5 Pro is in a weird spot when it comes to Australian market. Naturally they tend to have a $100-$150 increase over the existing one, and with prices how they are I could expect he OG to stay at $799. That could put the Pro at $899 or even $949.

No one is going to rush to pay that here, our country is suffering under a quasi recession so cash isn't exactly flush. If they go cheaper then the OG because of cost cutting, that'll be even weirder.
 
Valonquar

Valonquar

Member
t1000-terminator.gif
 
peish

peish

Member
unless the slim is really smaller foot print, i advise you all to pick up the 12xx series digital edition. 6nm with liquid metal is very quiet even with 30 degree celsius ambient in ff16 quality mode.

laying it horizontally looks really Artsy in the rack
 
V

Viking Warrior

Member
Imtjnotu said:
Sony at 7nm was getting roughly 131 chips per wafer at $10k.

Tsmc has said it is roughly $17k for a 300mm wafer. So with yields in the same range as before at roughly 75%, we're talking dollar differences between the pricing of 5nm and 7nm.

Sony already purchased the slot for 2023 tsmc 5nm. The chip will be less than a $4 difference per wafer
Click to expand...
The price of the 300mm wafers have fallen since 2020, the $17k price is around $13k now, early adopters of new process always pay a premium.The difference between 7nm and 5nm chip for PS5 is 306mm2 vs 190 mm2 which means significant savings for Sony.
 
V

Viking Warrior

Member
Imtjnotu said:
Sony at 7nm was getting roughly 131 chips per wafer at $10k.

Tsmc has said it is roughly $17k for a 300mm wafer. So with yields in the same range as before at roughly 75%, we're talking dollar differences between the pricing of 5nm and 7nm.

Sony already purchased the slot for 2023 tsmc 5nm. The chip will be less than a $4 difference per wafer
Click to expand...
On 300mm wafer you can get 231 7nm PS5 chips, at 75% yield gives you 173 chips. $10,000 divided by 173 = $58
On 300mm wafer you can get 353 5nm PS5 chips, at 75% yield gives you 264 chips. $13,000 divided by 264 = $49
 
Boss Mog

Boss Mog

Member
Trogdor1123 said:
Does the cost per chip go up with node shrinks? Or is that a wafer thing? I’m wondering if any actual cost savings will be realized in the short term or just in the long
Click to expand...
Once the process is mature, node shrinks decrease cost since you can fit more chips per wafer.

If the process isn't mature then yields will be low and cost will not go down. This is the reason CPU and GPU companies often sell products that have cores disabled on them. It allows them to recycle all the chips that had faulty cores by disabling the faulty cores and rebranding the chip as a lesser model.
 
Imtjnotu

Imtjnotu

Member
Viking Warrior said:
On 300mm wafer you can get 231 7nm PS5 chips, at 75% yield gives you 173 chips. $10,000 divided by 173 = $58
On 300mm wafer you can get 353 5nm PS5 chips, at 75% yield gives you 264 chips. $13,000 divided by 264 = $49
Click to expand...
My math is based on the 2020 numbers for how much their fabs at 7nm and 5nm. Couldn't find anywhere that tsmc is now 13k for a 12"

Thanks for the update
 
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nightmare-slain

nightmare-slain

Member
liquid metal sucks and isn't necessary. it was just a way for Sony to go overkill on the cooling because they were terrified of the console making any kind of noise which meant people would cry "it sounds like a jet engine".

thermal paste and pads are more than enough for a low powered console.

i'm happy to see more rumors about the PS5 Slim. the PS5 is £399 here now which is insane and i'd have grabbed one for sure if i didn't think there was a newer model coming out soon.

kruis said:
The new PS5 slim is coming soon. The current PS5 has been renamed to PlayStation 5 Standard Console.

PlayStation 5 Standard Console : Amazon.co.uk: PC & Video Games

PlayStation 5 Standard Console : Amazon.co.uk: PC & Video Games
www.amazon.co.uk
Click to expand...
what was it before?
 
Last edited:
Tsaki

Tsaki

Member
lmimmfn said:
The cost per chip is based on the process maturity(the more mature the process the less chips with issues) and the chip size which determines how many chips you can get per wafer(the smaller the node size the more chips can be produced). Sony already disables some of the gpu side to reduce the number of unusable chips.

The 5nm process is very mature at this stage, probably 90+% of chips meet QA, so this should reduce the cost per chip in general for Sony
Click to expand...
5nm wafers are considerably more expensive than 7nm from the get-go, no matter the yields. Sony also uses the refined "6nm" variant of the 7nm, so the gains going to 5nm are even smaller. So they might get more chips from every wafer but the total wafer cost counterbalances that. There could also be more competition for 5nm between the big players than 6nm.
To me it seems that the only reason for them to go with 5nm is for the smaller console design aspect afforded by the better PPW, not economics.
 
winjer

winjer

Gold Member
Viking Warrior said:
On 300mm wafer you can get 231 7nm PS5 chips, at 75% yield gives you 173 chips. $10,000 divided by 173 = $58
On 300mm wafer you can get 353 5nm PS5 chips, at 75% yield gives you 264 chips. $13,000 divided by 264 = $49
Click to expand...

The current prices for a wafer on N5 is 16K.
 
R

Robins

Member
Tsaki said:
5nm wafers are considerably more expensive than 7nm from the get-go, no matter the yields. Sony also uses the refined "6nm" variant of the 7nm, so the gains going to 5nm are even smaller. So they might get more chips from every wafer but the total wafer cost counterbalances that. There could also be more competition for 5nm between the big players than 6nm.
To me it seems that the only reason for them to go with 5nm is for the smaller console design aspect afforded by the better PPW, not economics.
Click to expand...

Yeah all the benefits come from the smaller everything else. Heatsink, power supply, packaging, transport, warehousing space, console chassis. It all will add up.
 
Tripolygon

Tripolygon

Banned
nightmare-slain said:
liquid metal sucks and isn't necessary.
Click to expand...
Liquid metal is a better heat conductor than regular thermal paste. Its literally just simple science, one is a bunch of metal fillers in a silicone polymer while liquid metal is just metal. Liquid metal has a higher heat transfer coefficient, so it is able to transfer heat away from the die more efficiently which means the processor runs cooler as heat is effectively being pulled away into the heatsink.



Compare liquid metal to thermal paste PS5 without fan and you see the thermal paste PS5 shuts down faster than the liquid metal PS5 because the liquid metal is effectively transferring the heat into the heatsink better than thermal paste.

nightmare-slain said:
it was just a way for Sony to go overkill on the cooling because they were terrified of the console making any kind of noise which meant people would cry "it sounds like a jet engine".
Click to expand...
No, the bigger fan is the reason for lower noise, bigger fans run at lower rpm means lower noise, can generate a lot of airflow vs smaller fans at higher rpm to generate the same amount of airflow at higher noise.

Xbox Series X 130mm
PS5 120mm
Xbox One 112mm
PS4 85mm

nightmare-slain said:
thermal paste and pads are more than enough for a low powered console.
Click to expand...
This makes no sense. Every processor generates heat regardless of how much power it draws. The higher the wattage the higher the heat, PS5 draws 210 watts, that is a lot of heat to cool.
 
Rocco Schiavone

Rocco Schiavone

Member
nightmare-slain said:
liquid metal sucks and isn't necessary. it was just a way for Sony to go overkill on the cooling because they were terrified of the console making any kind of noise which meant people would cry "it sounds like a jet engine".

thermal paste and pads are more than enough for a low powered console.

i'm happy to see more rumors about the PS5 Slim. the PS5 is £399 here now which is insane and i'd have grabbed one for sure if i didn't think there was a newer model coming out soon.


what was it before?
Click to expand...

Liquid Metal sucks?? In which way you 🤡.

It's better than the garbage thermal paste that gets dry after two years.
 
Little Mac

Little Mac

Gold Member
SSfox said:
I'm thinking about buying one, but I'm bit worried about metal liquid removal, don't want another noisy console scenario
Click to expand...

Same. I want one but I'd return it in a second if I started hearing the console over gameplay. Don't know how Sony got away with that behavior last generation. Sony has done a great job providing quality exclusives to its user base, but I think the hardware design has been lacking since the ps2 slim. No matter what I'm waiting for in-depth teardown reviews of the hardware before diving in.
 
T

Three

Member
SSfox said:
I'm thinking about buying one, but I'm bit worried about metal liquid removal, don't want another noisy console scenario
Click to expand...
It's likely to have no change due to its removal because the 5nm would be running cooler to not warrant liquid metal. The noise would be more dependent on its design and the fan used.
 
E

Elios83

Member
Ivan said:
What was the latest rumor on reveal date again, playstation showcase in August, right?
Click to expand...

The Spiderman 2 bundle is based on current model. This points to the new model releasing late September if not early October in time for the holiday season.
Which imo means the announcement will be around TGS time, not August.
 
SantaC

SantaC

Member
Three said:
It's likely to have no change due to its removal because the 5nm would be running cooler to not warrant liquid metal. The noise would be more dependent on its design and the fan used.
Click to expand...
the current PC CPU and GPU are on 5nm. You think they are cooler? Nope the power draw is still insane.
 
Daniel_Mallorca1985

Daniel_Mallorca1985

Member
Bernoulli said:
Makes sense if the node improves efficiency there will be no need for Liquid Metal cooling, cheaper to make and lighter

According to recent court documents, this new PlayStation 5 model will release later this year for the price of the Digital Edition.


CFI-1300 Series

• 5nm APU

• No Liquid Metal

wccftech.com

PlayStation 5 New Model to Sport 5nm APU, No Liquid Metal Cooling - Rumor

The rumored new PlayStation 5 model will sport a 5nm APU and no liquid metal cooling, according to rumors circulating online
wccftech.com wccftech.com
Click to expand...

PS5 Slim???
 
Team Andromeda

Team Andromeda

Member
Got to give credit to SONY engineers, they're killing the XBox team on the hardware front for cost and availability. Looking forward to a slim model myself.
 
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