• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

NSFW Returnal Hands-On Impressions (PS5) – A Roguelike Of AAA Quality That Isn’t Pulling Any Punches

Kangx

Member
Apr 6, 2021
191
398
230
I get what you are trying to say but this should never be the focus of a game.
No. Nobody should design their games around to sell more. Iam not saying that. Iam not sure how you design a game to sell more? Big production budget? Nobody know until you finish developing the game, and play test it. Iam sure sony and housemarque aware that they got something special on their hand. Housemarque games do not sell well in the past, and I think mostly related how difficult it is. I am sure returnal will satisfy a subset of hard-core gamers, but what about the majority of gamers who bought the ps5 and waiting for the next true ps5 games. Maybe at least lower hit damage and give more hp items. I am sure housemaque could figure it out without changing their games. I feel like they are a bit stubborn here. As a developer you want your game to be more accessible to a larger audiences. You also want your game to sell so you can sustain and even made more creative game like returnal in the future.
 
Nov 13, 2015
1,200
2,138
680
twitter.com


UMMHHH, just no, it looks like upscaled face from PS2, does not look 3D or how to put it, otherwise games looking good.
The cutscenes are pre-rendered and 30fps.
 

Kangx

Member
Apr 6, 2021
191
398
230
Maybe you should try the game for yourself before feeling sorry for the developers. As well, it's funny you should mentions Souls. A franchise that does not compromise its vision to cater to the widest possible audience and is successful anyway.
No, as I stated, at least in soul series you can grind level and defeat certain bosses, and you don't lose most things and start from the beginning after death. I can assure you that returnal will be difficult for most soul series players because it requires mostly on reflexes. I know forum is for hard-core gamers, and most hardcore gamers prefer hard game. Trust me, you will hear more complains even from souls players after the game drop on the 30th let alone reviewers.
 

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
17,150
80,109
965
35
Salalah, Oman
This looks interesting but Im not dropping $75 bucks on interesting. To me this seems like a $30-40 game. I'll get it when it gets there.

That's of course fair. Full price should be for games that are 100% what you want. To me I won't drop 1$ for any souls game because they just feel too clunky and shallow story-wise and combat isn't great to my taste. It's fair to accept some people genuinely won't play some games even for free.

Personally I was skeptical few months back but now I'm 100% even though I don't like roguelike-lite games in general. Price isn't an issue here.
 
Last edited:

Xenon

Member
That's your choice. Just don't expect games this gen to drop in price as much or as quickly as they have the last two generations.

Isn't it always that way in the beginning of each generation. Less software means less need to price competitively. So maybe they will sell this game at full price since PS5 players are hungry for a new title. But I think unless this gets a social media/steamer bump, I don't see it selling well at that price.

As far waiting. I started digging into Fallout 4 on my Series X. I think Ill be fine until a major price drop.
 
Last edited:

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
17,150
80,109
965
35
Salalah, Oman
Isn't it always that way in the beginning of each generation. Less software means less need to price competitively. So maybe they will sell this game at full price since PS5 players are hungry for a new title. But I think unless this gets a social media/steamer bump, I don't see it selling well at that price.

As far waiting. I just dug into Fallout on my Series X.

See now if you paid me $500 to play Fallout for one month I won't, 100% serious. I'd rather hibernate for one month instead. Fallout 4 is the biggest regret of last gen. Would need a refund and some extra money for my spare time wasted on it. Returnal deserves full price, but doesn't mean it should be for you, at least day one.

Saying so, I'm happy you are having fun with it, and I envy Demon's Souls fans for enjoying the remake that I won't play even for free.

Keyword: Personal prefrence.
 
Last edited:

dcmk7

Member
Mar 25, 2020
1,325
4,196
385
I love the sound of the previews. I had been waiting for reviews but after seeing the overwhelming positive vibes I'm now day one. Sounds almost exactly my kind of game.

Only slight reservation (which might made more sense once playing) is the lack of saving mid-run, that seems likes it going to be a ballache.
 

laynelane

Member
Aug 21, 2019
477
806
350
No, as I stated, at least in soul series you can grind level and defeat certain bosses, and you don't lose most things and start from the beginning after death. I can assure you that returnal will be difficult for most soul series players because it requires mostly on reflexes. I know forum is for hard-core gamers, and most hardcore gamers prefer hard game. Trust me, you will hear more complains even from souls players after the game drop on the 30th let alone reviewers.

Roguelike games are not for everyone, much like Souls games. I have zero issue with a developer making games according to their own vision. Good games find an audience. Without developers taking risks and publishers to support them, we would all be playing slightly different versions of the same games. Your concerns about the price and projections about difficulty and player complaints are beside the point.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
Jun 22, 2011
11,431
2,680
970
Holland
Games have never been cheaper. $60 when it was first introduced was more than $70 is today. Games before that were even more expensive when accounting for inflation, despite costing a small fraction of what games cost to produce today.

While true, it reached a certain status quo at 59 bucks. And games will be measured at that price. RE VIII's RRP is 69 euros on PSN, can be grabbed for 59 physical over here. Its a proven IP, we know what we're buying. Returnal is a new IP by a studio mainly known for smaller shooter games that were priced accordingly, and they drop a game at 79 euros. The question is if that increased price is going to end up benificial in terms of sales. This game is continously up for debate when it comes to its pricing. I think the backlash would be less if God of War Ragnarok is priced at 79. Hell, Rift Apart has the same price on the pre order page and I don't read many complaints.

I think it depends on what kind of game, or IP its about. I wouldn't launch a new IP at such a risky price tbh. Returnal sounds like its fairly hardcore in its approach (which I applaud, but could be a turn off for casual audience).
 
Last edited:

Pejo

Member
Jul 1, 2009
13,928
8,464
1,455
Man, if there were ever a game to do a create-a-character MC. That aside, after all the previews and videos, I still think it just looks "ok". I'll wait until a sale for 20-30. Probably around Christmas, but I'm in no hurry.
 

Xenon

Member
See now if you paid me $500 to play Fallout for one month I won't, 100% serious. I'd rather hibernate for one month instead. Fallout 4 is the biggest regret of last gen. Would need a refund and some extra money for my spare time wasted on it. Returnal deserves full price, but doesn't mean it should be for you, at least day one.

Saying so, I'm happy you are having fun with it, and I envy Demon's Souls fans for enjoying the remake that I won't play even for free.

Keyword: Personal prefrence.

I didn't mention Fallout 4 to say it was a great game, rather to show how long I'm willing to wait to get a game. At 17.99 for GotY edition I really enjoyed it. Funny you should mention Dark Souls, I played that the following generation as well. Most major titles its worth waiting for all the patches and DLC to be included in a single package. Thing is these games usually sell well initially and these packages are put together to appeal to the more frugal gaming set.

A game like Returnal however, unlike the games mentioned above is not going to have a lot of initial sales. Especially when you consider the genre usually is a niche market that normally is catered to buy indie developers. Plus I don't think the game has much marketing. The best shot this game has being a cult hit is word of mouth. Look at Hades, that game was priced at a budget price and it blew up. That's the market they should be going for with this game.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
17,150
80,109
965
35
Salalah, Oman
I love the sound of the previews. I had been waiting for reviews but after seeing the overwhelming positive vibes I'm now day one. Sounds almost exactly my kind of game.

Only slight reservation (which might made more sense once playing) is the lack of saving mid-run, that seems likes it going to be a ballache.

Saving mid-run aren't necessary. You can just jump straight to where you were through shortcuts. It's more like "roguelite", there are permanent upgrades like shortcuts to jump between places or right close to your last spot, grabbling hook to enter inaccessible spots before for loot/etc, and probably a swimming tech as there was a pool with loot underneath that you can't go there.

Also you start with zero resources and 0 level gun, but you can jump to the last spot and reach a box, plenty of them, and pick up a high level gun straight from 0 to like 5 or 6 or higher. Enemies aren't that hard, the smaller ones, so it won't be an issue. Also you don't need to fight bosses you've beaten. Once you've unlocked a new area it's permanently open, same with shortcuts and some equipment.

Reviews should cover those.
 
Last edited:
Feb 2, 2021
61
76
190
Wow, I went looking for this today, and saw that the minimum price is basically £65

last gen you still got games around £45 physical. (digital was the full RRP)

£65 fior a roguelike is mental.

Deadcells and Hades were much cheaper when I bought them, can't imagine some fancy 3d fx makes up the difference.
 

DonJorginho

Member
Jan 22, 2020
4,179
13,241
770
Kanye's Kitchen
Wow, I went looking for this today, and saw that the minimum price is basically £65

last gen you still got games around £45 physical. (digital was the full RRP)

£65 fior a roguelike is mental.

Deadcells and Hades were much cheaper when I bought them, can't imagine some fancy 3d fx makes up the difference.
If you're willing to make a US PSN you can get it on the store for £49, let me know if you want help brother.
 
Feb 2, 2021
61
76
190
If you're willing to make a US PSN you can get it on the store for £49, let me know if you want help brother.
Thanks for the offer, but I'm not one for the "need a new account" that you have to have for Sony games on dfferent countries stores.

Especially if the "saving" is still more than last gen's phyisical price.

I'll wait till this is on sale, or more likely on PS+
 

CloudShiner

Member
Dec 6, 2020
52
77
260
Wow, I went looking for this today, and saw that the minimum price is basically £65

last gen you still got games around £45 physical. (digital was the full RRP)

£65 fior a roguelike is mental.

Deadcells and Hades were much cheaper when I bought them, can't imagine some fancy 3d fx makes up the difference.
Pretty easy to save 15% on PSN via wallet top-up cards from the likes of cdkeys etc, so digital is never really RRP for most buyers. Takes Returnal down to about £60, for example.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

jm89

Member
Jul 29, 2015
895
430
595
This statement is getting real old - real quick..

60 bucks for a game wasn't a problem through the financial crisis - and now that we have more money (at least in most parts of the world), 70 bucks is too steep? And why is a genre of games less valuable than others? Makes absolutely no sense.
usa price increase is not the same as the uk price increase, uk got hit much harder. We are looking at a £25-£20 price increase.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

Con-Z-epT

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2019
2,290
4,946
505
As a developer you want your game to be more accessible to a larger audiences.
No this is wrong again. Look at how successful the Souls games are, even without hand holding.
And it is not like that Returnal isn't full of tutorials. It is gonna be a tough game.

I'm glad Housemarque sticks to their vision and Sony is willing to support it.
 
Last edited:

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
17,150
80,109
965
35
Salalah, Oman
I didn't know it was a rougelike, now it has my attention.

More like roguelite:

- There are permanent upgrades and collectables.
- Falling has no damage on ground, small health penalty for bottomless falls.
- Places you open are permanently there and you can travel there directly via shortcuts.

You only need to master your skills and it should be easy to manage. Most youtubers and jornos are shit players.
 
Last edited:

GymWolf

Banned
Jun 11, 2019
19,239
28,882
635
so the setting, female (ahem) protagonist and enemies do look like Metroid but it really isn't a Metroidvania at all, huh?

I was expecting it to punch some might level designs, but, like most roguelikes outside Sundered, level design is mostly eschewed and pointless, an A-to-B in disguise as you rush through the maps instead of carefully exploring and trying to find ways through it.

kinda sad, but can still be pretty involving, like Dead Cells or Enter the Gungeon
How is sundered? I have it on the epic store but never tried.
 

GymWolf

Banned
Jun 11, 2019
19,239
28,882
635
That's of course fair. Full price should be for games that are 100% what you want. To me I won't drop 1$ for any souls game because they just feel too clunky and shallow story-wise and combat isn't great to my taste. It's fair to accept some people genuinely won't play some games even for free.

Personally I was skeptical few months back but now I'm 100% even though I don't like roguelike-lite games in general. Price isn't an issue here.
Souls combat is too clunky but you like combat in ac saga...

 

skit_data

Member
Nov 3, 2020
2,277
5,497
425
Brah I love DS but you know that skill is anything but agile

It looks flashy, but 9/10 it gets you killed
Hmm, yeah its not very good in PvP... dual wielded daggers? My point was mostly that when i play the AC series it doesnt come across as agile compared to DS3/BB/Sekiro

But! Ghost of Tsushima, thats a good combo of the best of both worlds
 

sircaw

has bigger MS points balance than reaction score.
Jul 3, 2019
6,948
36,354
845
A local pond.
See now if you paid me $500 to play Fallout for one month I won't, 100% serious. I'd rather hibernate for one month instead. Fallout 4 is the biggest regret of last gen. Would need a refund and some extra money for my spare time wasted on it. Returnal deserves full price, but doesn't mean it should be for you, at least day one.

Saying so, I'm happy you are having fun with it, and I envy Demon's Souls fans for enjoying the remake that I won't play even for free.

Keyword: Personal prefrence.
What about 500 bucks to play Bugsnax? "lollipop_disappointed:
 
  • LOL
Reactions: tommib and Bo_Hazem

sircaw

has bigger MS points balance than reaction score.
Jul 3, 2019
6,948
36,354
845
A local pond.
Gotta admit, the Sigrun fight gave me more trouble than 95% of the Souls-series bosses. Had to go balls to the wall runic and cooldown build to beat her, but it was a glorious platinum
Totally agree, it was a lovely fight, everything about it felt so right and tight.

Need more encounters like that in the next game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: skit_data

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
17,150
80,109
965
35
Salalah, Oman
Nier:Automata takes that crown in my opinion, but GoW was pretty fantastic, too.

"Melee" combat ;) With Nier maybe you're referring to gunfight. I didn't play the game because the protagonist is shown as some kind of a stripper fighting giant enemies. I think anime lovers like that kinda stuff. It's the opposite of what people not liking the modest Selene here or Aloy.
 
Last edited:
  • Love
Reactions: tommib

Haggard

Member
Nov 25, 2020
746
1,450
460
"Melee" combat ;) With Nier maybe you're referring to gunfight. I didn't play the game because the protagonist is shown as some kind of a stripper fighting giant enemies. I think anime lovers like that kinda stuff. It's the opposite of what people are not liking the modest Selene here or Aloy.
It´s got a lot of bullet hell elements, but in the end you`re using mostly swords. It is melee combat, the fast and agile kind.
I loved GoW but I really wish Kratos had more agility/reach. I always felt a bit like a tank with T-rex arms.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem