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[joe_zazen]

I know right and those companies are forcing them to spend money with mind control right? "They are the ones you can manipulate" smh, so now we are saying anyone buying such a thing must be manipulated to do so?

My friend we might as well say anyone buying Call Of Duty are "the ones you can manipulate" or any game we don't like, as if someone buying something we don't agree with must be under some spell to do so or something.

Soooooo I don't buy many games I dislike, not because I'm free from the mind control, but because I dislike a game or its content etc. So Joe, people you like Yakuza must be "the ones you can manipulate" cause I don't like that game, clearly anyone that does must have been forced to or tricked and or manipulated into liking it right? /s

I guess i wasn't clear. They target adolescents who are easier to manipulate than adults because of the way human brains develop.

google “adolescent brain development prefrontal cortex decision making” or something like that.

Cigarette companies targeted teens for this very reason. It is also why irl gambling isn't all ages. So i guess if a multi billion dollar industry is being allowed access to in-development brains to make money off them by manipulating their behaviour, it is a kind of mind control.

Tbh, this is a little to metaphysical for my mushy brain.

Anyway, Tldr: selling virtual f2p shit to adolescents is way easier than 25-65 year olds because of biology and is therefore, kinda gross.

 

[Tesseract]

it's still one of the best shooters ever, don't let the cosmetic shit dissuade you from playing

 

[Mobilemofo]

Shouldn't of said it but he is right.. I would have used a much stronger word than asshats. Wankers dont wanna pay for anything.

 

[Trimesh]

It's easy - as soon as you see that EA is involved with a project in any capacity at all have nothing at all to do with it.

I decided that about 10 years ago - more recently, Activision, Blizzard and Bethesda/Zenimax have joined the shitlist.

 

[oagboghi2]

I know right and those companies are forcing them to spend money with mind control right? "They are the ones you can manipulate" smh, so now we are saying anyone buying such a thing must be manipulated to do so?

My friend we might as well say anyone buying Call Of Duty are "the ones you can manipulate" or any game we don't like, as if someone buying something we don't agree with must be under some spell to do so or something.

Soooooo I don't buy many games I dislike, not because I'm free from the mind control, but because I dislike a game or its content etc. So Joe, people you like Yakuza must be "the ones you can manipulate" cause I don't like that game, clearly anyone that does must have been forced to or tricked and or manipulated into liking it right? /s

You're not doing a very good job trying to defend this crap.

 

[oagboghi2]

Shouldn't of said it but he is right.. I would have used a much stronger word than asshats. Wankers dont wanna pay for anything.

Except that they already do. Alex Legends brings in tons of money. EA has admitted this? How much money does the fanbase have to drop before they aren't "wankers"

Why are people lying so adamantly. Respawn is not some indie dev trying to get by

 

[nikolino840]

Making it about the players is a clever way to deflect attention away from the blatant EA money-grabbing tactics of these premium skins.

I have 70000 L (red currency) that doesn't buy shit, that I've earned playing the game and I can only unlock skins jumping through literal hoops or paying straight up cash?

Fuck you Respawn. I'll play your free game but you won't get a penny off me. Cunts.

They wrote this too...you are free to not buy anything

 

[sol_bad]

Shouldn't of said it but he is right.. I would have used a much stronger word than asshats. Wankers dont wanna pay for anything.

So you are happy to pay $180usd to acquire one item?

 

[petran79]

Same happens in other professions as well. Hotel businesses, retail you name it. Never get personal, ever.

At least in other professions you get to talk with the managers directly if you have any complaints. Here the ones responsible are hiding in their offices behind firewalls

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

I think devs have a moral right to charge what they want, for the content they create.
The characters in Apex seem to conform to SJW ideals, so this game doesnt affect me (as I wont play it), but I've paid high prices for cosmetic DLC in other games, with no regrets.
The name-calling is a bit immature, but not necessarily untrue.

 

[Tako Ou]

 

[ruvikx]

I think devs have a moral right to charge what they want, for the content they create.
The characters in Apex seem to conform to SJW ideals, so this game doesnt affect me (as I wont play it), but I've paid high prices for cosmetic DLC in other games, with no regrets.
The name-calling is a bit immature, but not necessarily untrue.

All these people deserve each other, i.e. the people who get addicted to repetitive mindless online shooters on one side & the overly sensitive immature devs + publisher who charge moneys for cosmetic nonsense on the other. It's like watching a fight unfold in a casino between Joe Pesci & a group of gambling addicts.

Grab some popcorn, I guess.

 

[Tesseract]

So you are happy to pay $180usd to acquire one item?

not thrilled but it's cosmetic so i don't give too many shits, people will either pay up or they won't

 

[sol_bad]

not thrilled but it's cosmetic so i don't give too many shits, people will either pay up or they won't

The reason it annoys and pee's me off is because there is an obvious knock on affect even for gamers who aren't interested in free to play type games. I played Apex for the first couple of weeks but then it dropped off my radar like most multiplayer games do. Anyway, the red orbs in DMC5 and the $10 experience bullshit in AssCreed Odd is what I am talking about when I say knock on affect.

These developers test and push things and add fees in areas where they think/know they can get away with it. And again, I know in DMC5 and AssCreed Odd, these are optional payments but again there could be a knock on affect. The current games weren't programmed to slow down your progress but the next games in the series very well could be. The more we accept, the more they will push and try.

I'll sound like an old fart but I liked the old days when skins were unlockable, granted, it's 100% acceptable to sell them in free to play online games. But agaaaiiiin, there has been a knock on affect where they stopped giving away skins as unlockables and just sell them in single player games. It truly is frustrating.

*EDIT*
Nek minute, Dragon Age 4 contains an optional event that costs you an additional $80usd.

 

[Mista]

Fuck those individuals, not Respawn. I don’t support the way they talked with the community but gamers always complain and some can be very rude. Not everyone can handle that for a long time. Respawn deserved the backlash though

 

[Bryank75]

It's a free to play game..... lootboxes and microtransactions are going to be a part of that.

The truth is that many people who play Apex and Fortnite are not hardcore gamers that are used to spending quite a bit on gaming. They think these games are 'free' and that is that.... they don't care or think about developers or the business behind it.

This problem is exacerbated on PlayStation, as you don't even need PS+ to play Fortnite or Apex online. I really think these people should be charged for playing online as I assume they represent a negative financial impact to gaming and are indeed 'freeloaders'.

They certainly were not there to support Titanfall or Titanfall 2, both incredible games but these people wouldn't pay 60 dollars for it.
I can relate to the frustration...

 

[Conan-san]

Yes but they were already monetizing the game via relatively sane methods like the battle passes (and everyone's favorite surprise punch to the mouth)

The offending event / article was just ludicrous. Christ, you can buy a console (Second hand but still) for the effective amount they were asking for that stupid axe.

I agree some of the vitriol is over the line however that's sadly how it's going to go in a situation where gamers think (and are right to do so from all indications) that everyone is ether taking them for a ride or trying to use them as the next scapegoat the planet wide tire fire.

Respawn (or EA, let's not pretend that this isn't a Tango of the Damned) fucked the dog on this the moment that axe went on for sale and they have not conducted themselves properly since.

 

[Iorv3th]

It wasn't though. It was about the cost of the The Iron Crown event.

>but you don't have to pay for it

That doesn't make it any less assholish that they want you to pay 170$ just to unlock that one skin from the event. Respawn has been regarded as a pretty nice company when it comes to their practices and they said that EA was really hands-off with this game. So why in the hell would they come in with this predatory event, make those statements and destroy all that good will?

I know exactly what it's about. I play apex every day. People are just now getting mad about how much you have to spend to get the heirloom for bloodhound. My friend spent 200$ to get the heirloom for wraith. It's not like this wasn't in the game before.

 

[Negotiator]

A lot of game developers are elitist pricks. Atleast in America.

It's not unique to respawn

Yeah, I've seen the same behavior from Swedish devs. Not really surprised TBH.

 

[Allnamestakenlol]

Not the best way to go at it, but yeah. Lots of entitled bitches and freeloaders in our industry.

You mean our society. Both the devs and gamers are just regular people (behaving like twats), my dude.

 

[Lupin3]

The ass-hattery is strong with this controversy. Players, devs, prices... they are all heinie headwears!

 

[Saber]

They wrote this too...you are free to not buy anything

I'm guessing here that "freeloaders" includes the positive part of playerbase. Dunno about you but I wouldn't use that term if I want people to kindly spend more in the game, even more if what he says is true and there are low amount of people who spend money.

 

[klosos]

I would be the first to dig out Respawn for this if it was a pay to play game , but seeing this is a Free to play game , and its just cosmetics i don't care.

I am a big fan of Path Of Exile made by GGG and that's free to play with cosmetic only micro-Transactions which can cost £40+ , so id be a hypocrite to get annoyed at respawn and not GGG.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Good for them. There needs to be more push-back against asshats.

 

[Allnamestakenlol]

I would be the first to dig out Respawn for this if it was a pay to play game , but seeing this is a Free to play game , and its just cosmetics i don't care.

I am a big fan of Path Of Exile made by GGG and that's free to play with cosmetic only micro-Transactions which can cost £40+ , so id be a hypocrite to get annoyed at respawn and not GGG.

Tbh, I never minded GGG's micro's. Their skins and pets are usually pretty well made and they aren't what I'd consider prohibitively priced.

 

[DonF]

I know its just cosmetics, but that defense could apply to other things. Its just drugs, don't do them!
The fact that its a predatory practice is what concerns me.

I'm playing lots of apex, I dont care about the event, I got one of the "free skins", I had bad luck cause i didn't get the skin I wanted. There is another "free loot crate" for completing 20 challenges, once I get that, the event is over for me. I won't invest any money ( I've bought both battle passes, thats 20 dollars) on it.

But people with a different mind set will feel the need to get that skin and pay that disgusting price. And people with more ..."collecting issues" will feel the need to have all the event skins...

And those are the whales.

What EA sees as whales its just addicts, and people support this practice, because they are not addicts, are not seeing this problem.

 

[Negotiator]

in a lan match its OP, taking into account the netlag and half the bullets are blanks then it becomes total shit.

There are no LAN matches in Apex Legends, this game requires internet connectivity and dedicated servers. It's not p2p to eradicate latency with a LAN party.

 

[NickFire]

I read the quotes and have no issue with them. I would prefer a world where such quotes are not considered news worthy.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

God damn you kids and your modern lingo. WTF is a "whale" even?

 

[Negotiator]

I guess i wasn't clear. They target adolescents who are easier to manipulate than adults because of the way human brains develop.

google “adolescent brain development prefrontal cortex decision making” or something like that.

Cigarette companies targeted teens for this very reason. It is also why irl gambling isn't all ages. So i guess if a multi billion dollar industry is being allowed access to in-development brains to make money off them by manipulating their behaviour, it is a kind of mind control.

Tbh, this is a little to metaphysical for my mushy brain.

Anyway, Tldr: selling virtual f2p shit to adolescents is way easier than 25-65 year olds because of biology and is therefore, kinda gross.

This doesn't explain why 30-40 year old players also get addicted.

I guess they have underdeveloped/juvenile brains?

Operant conditioning chamber - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's a free to play game..... lootboxes and microtransactions are going to be a part of that.

The truth is that many people who play Apex and Fortnite are not hardcore gamers that are used to spending quite a bit on gaming. They think these games are 'free' and that is that.... they don't care or think about developers or the business behind it.

This problem is exacerbated on PlayStation, as you don't even need PS+ to play Fortnite or Apex online. I really think these people should be charged for playing online as I assume they represent a negative financial impact to gaming and are indeed 'freeloaders'.

They certainly were not there to support Titanfall or Titanfall 2, both incredible games but these people wouldn't pay 60 dollars for it.
I can relate to the frustration...

Apparently you don't know what "network effect" is. There's a reason these F2P games are so popular. Freeloaders are social currency.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Everyone, just stop being EAssholes.

 

[NickFire]

God damn you kids and your modern lingo. WTF is a "whale" even?

Whales are the people who buy lots of stuff in the digital stores (in the gaming context). I fall into that camp more often than I would care to admit.

 

[Thabass]

While I don't necessarily disagree with them, doing it so openly is a bad look. Not going to boycott them for it, but if you're pissing off your community, you're gonna have a bad time.

 

[Fbh]

You haven't actually looked at how egregious their microtransactions are have you? Or are you seriously defending lootboxes that are not earnable through playing and are as predatory as they come, locking an item from purchase until you unlock every item in the lootbox which cost $170. Fortnite literally gave them the blueprint for how to monetize their game, but they still fucked it up. I shouldn't be surprised though, there's always gonna be gamers that bend over and defend microtransactions, no matter how bad they are, as long as its cosmetic.

I don't really try to "defend" cosmetic microtransactions as much as I just don't really care if it's a F2P game. As long as the game remains free and loot boxes are strictly cosmetic I couldn't care less if there's some axe that idiots are willing to pay $170 for. What does the axe even do? I only played apex for a little while but from what I remember you might see it for like a second when melee attacking?

God damn you kids and your modern lingo. WTF is a "whale" even?

Generally refers to the people that spend a lot of money on microtransactions.
I haven't seen any specific data but some people claim they are the main source of income for some F2P games. So instead of aiming for 100 players to each spend $5 on the game the focus on getting 1 out of every 100 players to drop $1000.

 

[Conan-san]

I would be the first to dig out Respawn for this if it was a pay to play game , but seeing this is a Free to play game , and its just cosmetics i don't care.

I am a big fan of Path Of Exile made by GGG and that's free to play with cosmetic only micro-Transactions which can cost £40+ , so id be a hypocrite to get annoyed at respawn and not GGG.

Not to antfuck but arn't respecs in 'Exile not mtx's?

 

[SurprisedPikachu]

It sounds to me Apex while a 'success' in terms of player count is still not generating any profit for the company. They probably spent many late nights coming up with a solution to make a profit without fucking over the players only for everyone to shit on them. It's a free-to-play game, they have to make money somehow. While the developers are overworked, tired, and stressed out - they should've stepped away when things got heated, but instead they didn't and they should be held accountable.

 

[manfestival]

It sounds to me Apex while a 'success' in terms of player count is still not generating any profit for the company. They probably spent many late nights coming up with a solution to make a profit without fucking over the players only for everyone to shit on them. It's a free-to-play game, they have to make money somehow. While the developers are overworked, tired, and stressed out - they should've stepped away when things got heated, but instead they didn't and they should be held accountable.

There are plenty of times that your post was already addressed in this thread. Your statement has already been addressed even in screenshots of people taking shots at the devs. However, I will add that part of this problem is their own for being super slow on capitalizing on the success of the game. I have a good 70 hours in the game personally and I stopped playing the game for a minute due to the entire lack of content and reason to continue. Do you play the game? If you did then you would already have insight as to how garbage their cosmetics have been and their battle passes. They are free to do what they want, they just know that their community actually cares and will give them blowback for egregious things like... this event. I actually like the cosmetics that they have provided but they seem to out of touch like... they hired the "Lead Loot Box" director of EA to help them in being more profitable.

 

[Petrae]

It sounds to me Apex while a 'success' in terms of player count is still not generating any profit for the company. They probably spent many late nights coming up with a solution to make a profit without fucking over the players only for everyone to shit on them. It's a free-to-play game, they have to make money somehow. While the developers are overworked, tired, and stressed out - they should've stepped away when things got heated, but instead they didn't and they should be held accountable.

Community and/or social media managers exist as a buffer between a business and its staff and the big, bad, mean ol’ internet. When you decide, as an employee, to forego that buffer and wade into the comments and reactions... you absolutely need to keep your emotions in check. Once you give in to the temptation to respond in kind, you’ve not only lost the personal battle, but you endanger your employer’s ability to run a successful business as well.

I have zero sympathy for anyone who goes rogue and amplifies an already-bad situation by descending to the level of the loud minority. The individuals who foolishly decided to engage here not only show that they’re fully behind greedy monetization efforts (despite the cookie-cutter apologies), but they show a blatant dislike and disregard for their customer base... the people who ultimately decide if they remain employed through engagement and desire to spend either time and/or money.

Fuck separating “art from the artist”. I wouldn’t give these assholes one more minute of my time or one penny of my hard-earned money, no matter what project they’re working on. It’s how you permanently lose customers in a business that’s loaded with competition.

 

[SurprisedPikachu]

There are plenty of times that your post was already addressed in this thread. Your statement has already been addressed even in screenshots of people taking shots at the devs. However, I will add that part of this problem is their own for being super slow on capitalizing on the success of the game. I have a good 70 hours in the game personally and I stopped playing the game for a minute due to the entire lack of content and reason to continue. Do you play the game? If you did then you would already have insight as to how garbage their cosmetics have been and their battle passes. They are free to do what they want, they just know that their community actually cares and will give them blowback for egregious things like... this event. I actually like the cosmetics that they have provided but they seem to out of touch like... they hired the "Lead Loot Box" director of EA to help them in being more profitable.

I don't have time to read through three pages of comments to get up to speed as to what everyone has said in response to the OP. I responded to OP with my thoughts on the matter and that was it. This also allows my response to be my own thoughts and not influenced by the comments of others in this thread. In addition to this - I played the game briefly, but Battle Royale isn't my cup of tea so I moved on to another game.

All I did was read the OP and respond.

Community and/or social media managers exist as a buffer between a business and its staff and the big, bad, mean ol’ internet. When you decide, as an employee, to forego that buffer and wade into the comments and reactions... you absolutely need to keep your emotions in check. Once you give in to the temptation to respond in kind, you’ve not only lost the personal battle, but you endanger your employer’s ability to run a successful business as well.

I have zero sympathy for anyone who goes rogue and amplifies an already-bad situation by descending to the level of the loud minority. The individuals who foolishly decided to engage here not only show that they’re fully behind greedy monetization efforts (despite the cookie-cutter apologies), but they show a blatant dislike and disregard for their customer base... the people who ultimately decide if they remain employed through engagement and desire to spend either time and/or money.

Fuck separating “art from the artist”. I wouldn’t give these assholes one more minute of my time or one penny of my hard-earned money, no matter what project they’re working on. It’s how you permanently lose customers in a business that’s loaded with competition.

Before Twitter and Facebook, this is what developers did for the most part. Now every one and their mother are on some form of social media and all have this undying need to voice their unfiltered thoughts onto the internet for the public to scrutinize. I remember waiting for the next issue of PC Gamer and GameInformer to find out about new games I might be interested in.

When I was working in the industry we had a fan track us down on social media and add us on everything. They were absolutely obsessed and honestly kind of scary. It's one of many reasons why I don't have social media. My life doesn't need to be broadcast on the internet for all to see because no one should care about what I eat, drink, who I hang out with, etc. They should care about the work I do, and preferably not even know me by name (now). Back then I was happy to be the face of a big project, but now I'd be hesitant to do that again just because of how heated things are getting.

 

[nowhat]

Wankers dont wanna pay for anything.

That's patently false. See: too many paid porn/cam sites to count.

 

[manfestival]

Community and/or social media managers exist as a buffer between a business and its staff and the big, bad, mean ol’ internet. When you decide, as an employee, to forego that buffer and wade into the comments and reactions... you absolutely need to keep your emotions in check. Once you give in to the temptation to respond in kind, you’ve not only lost the personal battle, but you endanger your employer’s ability to run a successful business as well.

I have zero sympathy for anyone who goes rogue and amplifies an already-bad situation by descending to the level of the loud minority. The individuals who foolishly decided to engage here not only show that they’re fully behind greedy monetization efforts (despite the cookie-cutter apologies), but they show a blatant dislike and disregard for their customer base... the people who ultimately decide if they remain employed through engagement and desire to spend either time and/or money.

Fuck separating “art from the artist”. I wouldn’t give these assholes one more minute of my time or one penny of my hard-earned money, no matter what project they’re working on. It’s how you permanently lose customers in a business that’s loaded with competition.

Agreed 100% on all your points. This is doubly important for anyone that is not in a PR position. Keep the emotion out of it. Unfortunately that is easier said done.

 

[Tesseract]

It sounds to me Apex while a 'success' in terms of player count is still not generating any profit for the company. They probably spent many late nights coming up with a solution to make a profit without fucking over the players only for everyone to shit on them. It's a free-to-play game, they have to make money somehow. While the developers are overworked, tired, and stressed out - they should've stepped away when things got heated, but instead they didn't and they should be held accountable.

the game is making a ridiculous amount of money and the developers are not overworked at all, respawn has one of the healthiest development cultures in the industry

 

[SurprisedPikachu]

the game is making a ridiculous amount of money and the developers are not overworked at all, respawn has one of the healthiest development cultures in the industry

Any evidence to back that up? Sounds to me Respawn is working on two or three games right now. Apex Legends, that Star Wars game, and a VR title. They could be stretching themselves thin enough to be have less than savory work conditions. I'm not claiming to know their conditions, and I am not trying to defend them either. But the industry as a whole is overworked, tired, and stressed out.

 

[Tesseract]

Any evidence to back that up? Sounds to me Respawn is working on two or three games right now. Apex Legends, that Star Wars game, and a VR title. They could be stretching themselves thin enough to be have less than savory work conditions. I'm not claiming to know their conditions, and I am not trying to defend them either. But the industry as a whole is overworked, tired, and stressed out.

they've come out and said it themselves, and they're recently hired many more people to produce content for apex and the vr title

it was a pretty big story around the time the epic games crunch nightmare story came out, respawn made it clear they basically do the opposite

which makes sense because their rate of patches and stuff is a bit slower than most companies

 

[SurprisedPikachu]

they've come out and said it themselves, and they're recently hired many more people to produce content for apex and the vr title

Rockstar said the same thing and turns out everyone was miserable.

 

[Tesseract]

Rockstar said the same thing and turns out everyone was miserable.

i shouldn't get into it but i talk to many of these guys all the time, they're not miserable, they love the game so much they all play it together after work

(i cannot comment on rockstar's conditions)

 

[SurprisedPikachu]

i shouldn't get into it but i talk to many of these guys all the time, they're not miserable, they love the game so much they all play it together after work

(not rockstar, i cannot comment on their conditions)

I too talk to many developers in the game industry because I worked in it for a decade.

 

[Tesseract]

I too talk to many developers in the game industry because I worked in it for a decade.

yes dude i've been in the industry for 19 years, you're not the only ones with friends and family in the business

i'm not gonna start slinging credentials to make a point, i'm just telling you my experiences with the respawn guys is they're a pretty happy group of people

*edit maybe i'm wrong and the star wars and vr team are miserable, i don't know them very well, they're completely different cabals*

 

[Zog]

I'd lose my rag if I were constantly presented with some of the garbage that gets posted in that subreddit.

You'd lose your job too. You ever worked in retail or food service? You don't get to say shit like that and keep your job no matter how frustrated you get.

 

[Da-Kid]

They want to generate more money people have been telling them what to do and it's quite simple.

1. Lower the Cost of exclusive legendary skins from $18.00 (1,800 Apex Coins) to $15.00

2. Have an option where people can purchase items for the exact about and nothing more.

Currently there's only set amounts you can buy which seem to purpose be more than what they price items on minimum.

3. Make more Rare/Epic Skins on the same level of quality as the ones that come in Battle Passes. These for example:

Price Rare skins at $5.00, and the Epic Skins as $10.00. There are more examples but these look great. They should be able to spit these out since they're literally texture changing instead of model swapping g like Legendary's are.

Plus, they literally do this with the weapons anyways in the store.

They say they're putting all this work on, it certainly doesn't feel like it.