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Community PS5 compared to RX 5700 XT in games

Superayate

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Looks like crap in Watch_Dogs on anything that isn't a puddle IMO. Especially on the cars.

To be honest, I have not opened the pictures (i'm writing from my phone, but yes I saw after the pictures) and I have not tried WDL on consoles but on PC with 3070. I have played Spiderman MM and compared with that, that's why I answered that.
 
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regawdless

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The discussion regarding Spider-Man's RT has been done in detail in other threads. It has amazing draw distance and is tuned very well to achieve the best result for this kind of game and the hardware at hand.

But to achieve this, the devs had to make a lot of sacrifices. I think it's important to be aware of them, to understand the limitations regarding the RT capabilities.

- it uses raytraced reflections only, no other RT effects
- it uses reflections on very limited surfaces. For example the windows have reflections, while walls don't reflect anything. Which is understandable, because reflections on rough surfaces are way more compute heavy. In other games, every table, glass, glossy doors etc also reflect the environment.
- NPC reflections use lower quality models and are updated at 0.5fps - edit: I mean at 0.5 of the fps, meaning half the refresh rate.
- vegetation is reflected in a very simplified way
- no particle effects and debris is reflected
- low resolution for the reflections
- no reflections in the reflections
- etc.

Again, great work by the devs regarding choosing their shortcuts. They achieved a stunning result overall. But when you look at what the likes of Control or Cyberpunk doing on high-end PCs, yes, Spider-Man has a very basic RT implementation.
 
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geordiemp

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Compared to what games like Control or Cyberpunk are doing, this is incredibly basic. It works for the game because usually you're not staring into windows but are slinging around the city at high speeds, but if you look closely it really doesn't look that great.
Yes some of the windows are dirty, some are clean, go watch the DF video on spiderman. Its not a RT performance thing like you believe.

So what is the purpose of this comparison and why no XSX

Is it perfromance ps5 > XSX > 5700Xt

or ps5 > 5700Xt > XSX ?
 
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Superayate

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Yes some of the windows are dirty, some are clean, go watch the DF video on spiderman. Its not a RT performance thing like you believe.

So what is the purpose of this comparison and why no XSX

Is it perfromance ps5 > XSX > 5700Xt

or ps5 > 5700Xt > XSX ?

Why is It needed to speak about the XsX when the topic is "PS5 compared to RX 5700 XT in games" ?
 

Bernd Lauert

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Yes some of the windows are dirty, some are clean, go watch the DF video on spiderman. Its not a RT performance thing like you believe.

So what is the purpose of this comparison and why no XSX

Is it perfromance ps5 > XSX > 5700Xt

or ps5 > 5700Xt > XSX ?

Nobody knows yet. We only have one game where somewhat of a comparison has been made.
 

Marlenus

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No, under ACV that's case in their vidéo, but with games better optimized for nvidia, it will be more 2070 for example. In any case, who really cares ? This amount of ressources will be so nice when well used by 1st party dev :)

The 5700XT is already faster than the 2070 on average and PS5 is at least as fast if not a bit faster.

2070s/2080 is about where PS5 should land on average.
 
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regawdless

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Also let's keep in mind that Spider-Man MM is basically an upgraded PS4 game. And is only able to use very basic RT reflections. This should at least give us an idea what to expect. I think it's a fair question to ask how much budget will be left for any form of raytracing once "real" demanding next gen games will arrive.

Devs will use cheaper hybrid approaches and use it in smart ways to enhance and complement the games visuals. They will achieve stunning results, especially first party devs. But we should not expect the full raytracing galore with reflections, shadows, global Illumination etc.

That said, I believe that this gen will - finally! - drastically improve the lighting quality in games.

I'm on record saying that the PS5 digi edition is an incredible deal, like the best value proposition I can think of. We can be happy to get such performance for so little money. While still being realistic.
 

assurdum

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You are answering about the fact that you can't really compare PS5 with Nvidia GPU on ONE game and claim that PS5 = 2800 super. The results will change if the game is more optimized for AMD or NVIDIA that's all.
And don't come saying that the console are using AMD so the games will Be better optimized for AMD. That's false => the previous generation has shown that it was not the case.
Never said is fact. I said AC Valhalla showed ps5 can perform closely to a 2080 super by cases whatever Nvidia card is optimised or not, I don't really care and it's not like ps5 is already maxed out.. Now it's you who said is a fact ps5 can just perform as 2070 super because you look to the paper specs and I bet to say it's far from a fact and just an opinable supposition.
 
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assurdum

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It's muddy by design, it has to be because the RT needs to be very basic, otherwise the game would run like shit. Fidelity mode looks better but not by much. It's still at a quarter resolution and missing a lot of details. And even fidelity mode only has RT reflections and nothing else afaik. It's basic.
You don't even understood what's the raytracing is about if you think it's very basic on ps5. Your assumption are ridicolous and partial as always
 

spyshagg

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ACV is just not optimized for Nvidia hardware, that is why the RDNA cards perform so good. Do you seriously think the 5700XT can reach 2080Ti performance by "potential"? Do you seriously believe that a card this more powerful can be reached just by your magic "potential" ? (and you don't even tell me what it is) Spoiler alert: This card has none. This card has actually, let me make that loud and clear, zero potential because the absence of DX12 Ultimate support, machine learning inferencing acceleration and DirectStorage... unlike Turing, Ampere and RDNA2 which do have full DX12 Ultimate support and thus, true potential to perform much better than currently in next generation titles.

I expect any DX12 Ultimate compatible card even a RX 6300 or a RTX 3030, to outperform a 5700XT in true next generation titles, in terms of visual quality and performance. That includes the Series S, which also is a DX12U compatible console.

And the PS5 is no difference, in current and cross generation titles and without RT, the PS5 may be compared to RDNA1, but once next gen kicks in which will fully utilize the advanced Geometry Engine (on par with Mesh Shaders), their own version of the Sampler Feedback technique and Sonys version of VRS to its full potential, any card from the RDNA1 generation is dead in the water instantly.

And even for cross generation titles, it's quite obvious. Let me assure you a 5700XT would never be able to accomplish Spiderman with RT and with this performance, simply because RDNA1 lacks HW acceleration for Raytracing.

The RDNA1 generation was a pure cash grab focusing on performance/price but only in the short-term, disregarding everything the industry is leading forwards to. I feel very sorry for everyone who fell for it.

AMD should just discontinue every RDNA1 card now and replace it with a RDNA2 card. Because you know, that is actually a good and futureproof architecture and is capable of rendering next gen games.

Mate, it does not matter. There are different levels of optimizations for every PC game. You don't get to dictate which ones are valid. End of story.
 
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mr.dilya

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ACV is just not optimized for Nvidia hardware, that is why the RDNA cards perform so good. Do you seriously think the 5700XT can reach 2080Ti performance by "potential"? Do you seriously believe that a card this more powerful can be reached just by your magic "potential" ? (and you don't even tell me what it is) Spoiler alert: This card has none. This card has actually, let me make that loud and clear, zero potential because the absence of DX12 Ultimate support, machine learning inferencing acceleration and DirectStorage... unlike Turing, Ampere and RDNA2 which do have full DX12 Ultimate support and thus, true potential to perform much better than currently in next generation titles.

I expect any DX12 Ultimate compatible card even a RX 6300 or a RTX 3030, to outperform a 5700XT in true next generation titles, in terms of visual quality and performance. That includes the Series S, which also is a DX12U compatible console.

And the PS5 is no difference, in current and cross generation titles and without RT, the PS5 may be compared to RDNA1, but once next gen kicks in which will fully utilize the advanced Geometry Engine (on par with Mesh Shaders), their own version of the Sampler Feedback technique and Sonys version of VRS to its full potential, any card from the RDNA1 generation is dead in the water instantly.

And even for cross generation titles, it's quite obvious. Let me assure you a 5700XT would never be able to accomplish Spiderman with RT and with this performance, simply because RDNA1 lacks HW acceleration for Raytracing.

The RDNA1 generation was a pure cash grab focusing on performance/price but only in the short-term, disregarding everything the industry is leading forwards to. I feel very sorry for everyone who fell for it.

AMD should just discontinue every RDNA1 card now and replace it with a RDNA2 card. Because you know, that is actually a good and futureproof architecture and is capable of rendering next gen games.

In that AD for Nvidia you posted the other day, you said a vanilla 2060 is better than a 5700XT....now you've bumped it up to a RTX 3030. Making progress I see. Nice.
 
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jroc74

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Compared to what games like Control or Cyberpunk are doing, this is incredibly basic. It works for the game because usually you're not staring into windows but are slinging around the city at high speeds, but if you look closely it really doesn't look that great.
*Finds the muddiest window* Yup, that looks shit enough to take a screenshot to prove a point. Isn't that also the 60fps RT mode?
Cyberpunk has RT on consoles?

And the ~1440p/60fps


Compared to


I know which one I prefer and it ain't Watch_Dogs.

The image you chose was muddy by design because that's a muddy window.
I was tempted to start Spider-Man Remastered to look for that muddy window.... I do know in game when you switch from mode to mode you can see the RT difference in some places. One spot is in F.E.A.S T. while as Peter Parker.

You can see the mud, dirt on the window....I think I'm about to start putting more ppl on ignore......
 

Dampf

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In that AD for Nvidia you posted the other day, you said a vanilla 2060 is better than a 5700XT....now you've bumped it up to a RTX 3030. Making progress I see. Nice.

Ad for Nvidia? What?

Are you ignoring my posts are basically an ad for AMD's RDNA2 as well? Also I've always said a RX 6300 class GPU will outperform RDNA1 in next generation titles. I mean sure, they wouldn't even boot up on a RDNA1 card if AMD still won't care to enable DXR in software. And in the case of the RX 6300 /RTX 3030 not having DXR acceleration, they atleast have all the other crucial DX12U improvements. I mean even VRS alone can improve performance by 20-30%. And when games use mesh shaders, a card without acceleration for that revolution of game geometry, will suffer hard.
 

Mister Wolf

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Don't push me to post a screenshot which look as bad if not worse about WD Legion raytracing, please. Don't be that stupid and dishonest because you have to downplay the ps5 performance.

When did they mention Watch Dogs in their comment.
 
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Sure. But Spider-Man has severe limitations regarding it's raytraced reflections, it takes a lot of shortcuts to make it work on that scale. It was analyzed by DF, also comparing it to limitations a 2060S would have.

Again, not saying the PS5 is bad or anything, the console is amazing. But regarding raytracing, we need to keep our expectations in check. It's extremely performance heavy.

Care to elaborate which part of the video?

Oh, yes, the vast majority surely knows that RT is really GPU and bandwidth heavy.
 
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iHaunter

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Compared to what games like Control or Cyberpunk are doing, this is incredibly basic. It works for the game because usually you're not staring into windows but are slinging around the city at high speeds, but if you look closely it really doesn't look that great.
This is the 60 FPS mode or 30 FPS mode?
 

regawdless

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Care to elaborate which part of the video?

Oh, yes, the vast majority surely knows that RT is really GPU and bandwidth heavy.

In this video:

But again, that should just give us a general idea. Insomniac optimized some stuff for the retail version, this video was based on a version before the launch.
 

Superayate

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The 5700XT is already faster than the 2070 on average and PS5 is at least as fast if not a bit faster.

2070s/2080 is about where PS5 should land on average.

I didn't say the opposite in fact, what I mainly wanted to highlight is : when someone say that the PS5 = 2080 super from AC Valhalla, it does not make any sense. Because it is about different GPU architectures and it depends on the graphics engine optimization for a GPU architecture (or not), so the results can fluctuate greatly.
In any case, I really think that the PS5 is a nice hardware, my purpose was not to say the contrary.
 
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Superayate

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Never said is fact. I said AC Valhalla showed ps5 can perform closely to a 2080 super by cases whatever Nvidia card is optimised or not, I don't really care and it's not like ps5 is already maxed out.. Now it's you who said is a fact ps5 can just perform as 2070 super because you look to the paper specs and I bet to say it's far from a fact and just an opinable supposition.

But what I'm saying, is that AC Valhalla showed that the RX5700 XT perform on this game at 2080 super level also, could we conclude and say that the 5700XT = 2080 super ?? I say no, simply because in some others game it's more at 2070 level and other it will be at 2080 for example. In fact, I may have been too simplistic in my explanation in a first time.
When an Game engine is optimized for nvidia GPU, you can be sure that an AMD GPU will work with less efficiency, and that's normal. The PS5 is based on AMD architecture, so it will suffer of same limitations with these engines. That's all, and when you are saying "it's not like ps5 is already maxed out", the PS5 GPU won't become stronger than a 2080 super, that's simply the API that will be better and that the engine optimized for the PS5 will improve in performances. But as much for the API it will increase the 3rd party games performances (as it is the case for API and drivers for GPU on PC), as much for the engine it will mainly concern the 1st party dev (which could give very impressive results as we saw with GoW or TLOU2 on PS4).
 

assurdum

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When did they mention Watch Dogs in their comment.
WD has a superior RT on pc at higher setting for obvious reasons but there are moments where is incredibly ugly too, so post an ugly picture of MM to point out it's a simplistic raytracing (which the hell it means only God knows) it's unfair and fanboistic.
 
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Mister Wolf

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WD has a superior RT on pc at higher setting for obvious reasons but there are moments where is incredibly ugly too, so post an ugly picture of MM to point out it's a simplistic raytracing (which the hell it means only God knows) it's unfair and fanboistic.

Control and Cyberpunk have superior RT on PC over WD. What's your point. Spiderman is the best example on consoles, WD isn't the best example on PC not even for reflections.
 
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assurdum

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But what I'm saying, is that AC Valhalla showed that the RX5700 XT perform on this game at 2080 super level also, could we conclude and say that the 5700XT = 2080 super ?? I say no, simply because in some others game it's more at 2070 level and other it will be at 2080 for example. In fact, I may have been too simplistic in my explanation in a first time.
When an Game engine is optimized for nvidia GPU, you can be sure that an AMD GPU will work with less efficiency, and that's normal. The PS5 is based on AMD architecture, so it will suffer of same limitations with these engines. That's all, and when you are saying "it's not like ps5 is already maxed out", the PS5 GPU won't become stronger than a 2080 super, that's simply the API that will be better and that the engine optimized for the PS5 will improve in performances. But as much for the API it will increase the 3rd party games performances (as it is the case for API and drivers for GPU on PC), as much for the engine it will mainly concern the 1st party dev (which could give very impressive results as we saw with GoW or TLOU2 on PS4).
And again you don't know how can land the ps5 performance in the future and the only thing I stated is AC Valhalla is ps5 can match the performance of a 2080 super in this game. Now I don't understand what means point out it's better optimized on AMD, isn't it series X AMD too so why it doesn't applies there too? But I guess it's more convenient take the series X out of the equation.
 
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assurdum

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Control and Cyberpunk have superior RT on PC over WD. What's your point. Spiderman is the best example on consoles, WD isn't the best example on PC not even for reflections.
Uh you should ask to Dictator or the same VFX on this forum because they said quite the contrary, not me, honestly what could change, pc can easily outclass the ps5 with his brute force in every scenario.
 
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Superayate

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And again you don't know how can land the ps5 performance in the future and the only thing I stated is AC Valhalla is ps5 can match the performance of a 2080 super in this game. Now I don't understand what means point out it's better optimized on AMD, isn't it series X AMD too so why it doesn't applies there too? But I guess it's more convenient take the series X our of the equation.

Honestly, under this game XsX runs it slightly lower than PS5 in few scenes, it's the same overall, ACV runs very well on it compared to PC version with Nvidia GPU, that's exactly the same situation and confirm what I say in fact...
 

assurdum

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Honestly, under this game XsX runs it slightly lower than PS5 in few scenes, it's the same overall, ACV runs very well on it compared to PC version with Nvidia GPU, that's exactly the same situation and confirm what I say in fact...
Not really because following your logic series X should outtakes the ps5 perfomance easily indeed it runs at 1080p in the worst scenario to not struggle too compared Vs 1440p on ps5 and isn't it exactly a slighter lower resolution...
 
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assurdum

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The discussion regarding Spider-Man's RT has been done in detail in other threads. It has amazing draw distance and is tuned very well to achieve the best result for this kind of game and the hardware at hand.

But to achieve this, the devs had to make a lot of sacrifices. I think it's important to be aware of them, to understand the limitations regarding the RT capabilities.

- it uses raytraced reflections only, no other RT effects
- it uses reflections on very limited surfaces. For example the windows have reflections, while walls don't reflect anything. Which is understandable, because reflections on rough surfaces are way more compute heavy. In other games, every table, glass, glossy doors etc also reflect the environment.
- NPC reflections use lower quality models and are updated at 0.5fps
- vegetation is reflected in a very simplified way
- no particle effects and debris is reflected
- low resolution for the reflections
- no reflections in the reflections
- etc.

Again, great work by the devs regarding choosing their shortcuts. They achieved a stunning result overall. But when you look at what the likes of Control or Cyberpunk doing on high-end PCs, yes, Spider-Man has a very basic RT implementation.
Oh God not this shit again. There are different developers who have claimed the way how geometry are handled on MM reflection is not that simple even on a normal pc and probably just possible with a lower API access so basic my balls with all respect. Uh that absurd list you posted; the hell is an NPC animated at 0,5 fps? Jesus you put a lot of absurdity on it.
 
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Superayate

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Not really because following your logic series X should outtakes the ps5 perfomance easily indeed it runs at 1080p in the worst scenario to not struggle too compared Vs 1440p on ps5 and isn't it exactly a slighter lower resolution...

I don't understand why we are speaking about the XsX in fact.
Firstly, where I said that XsX is more powerfull than PS5 ? And secondly why with what I said the Series X should outtake the PS5 ?? They use some variation of AMD architecture with few more customizations on Sony's side, PS5 have some advantages over the XsX, the XsX has some too over the PS5, it appears that most of current games runs better on PS5, it's possible that's because they are more dependant on certain specs that perform better on PS5. But they will evolve in the same way with games optimized for AMD GPU and games more optimized for Nvidia GPU. It was the case in the past, so why it will change this time ??
 
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assurdum

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I don't understand why we are speaking about the XsX in fact.
Firstly, where I said that XsX is more powerfull than PS5 ? And secondly why with what I said the Series X should outtake the PS5 ?? They use some variation of AMD architecture with few more customizations on Sony's side, PS5 have some advantages over the XsX, the XsX has some too over the PS5, it appears that most of current games runs better on PS5, it's possible that's because they are more dependant on certain specs that perform better on PS5. But they will evolve in the same way with games optimized for AMD GPU and games more optimized for Nvidia GPU. It was the case in the past, so why it will change this time ??
Uh I always thought series X was more powerful on the paper and it's AMD, so I used it to prove it's not true AC Valhalla it better optimized in everything is AMD relative...
 

regawdless

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Oh God not this shit again. There are different developers who have claimed the way how geometry are handled on MM reflection is not that simple even on a normal pc and probably just possible with a lower API access so basic my balls with all respect. Uh that absurd list you posted; the hell is an NPC animated at 0,5 fps? Jesus you put a lot of absurdity on it.

Why did my post trigger you so much? Every point that I've listed is true. If you have factual arguments that prove me wrong, you're very welcome to educate me. If not, then I don't understand what you're trying to do here.

Regarding the NPCs:
Watch the Digital Foundry review of Miles Morales. They say explicitly that in the reflections, movable objects are refreshed every frame, while pedestrians are refreshed "every other frame" to save on performance.

Maybe you should reevaluate your assessment of absurdity.
 

LordOfChaos

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Someone should do up a 9th gen "Potatomasher" again. Build something that just matches the 9th gen performance and see how they compare over the years.

If the 5700XT is comparable now, the thing is still that in 6 years things will be playing better on the PS5 than it with bespoke tailoring, but I'd be curious to see how much this difference has widened or closed as the PC got lower level APIs and the PS5 went in a somewhat unique direction with the SSD offload.

 

assurdum

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Why did my post trigger you so much? Every point that I've listed is true. If you have factual arguments that prove me wrong, you're very welcome to educate me. If not, then I don't understand what you're trying to do here.

Regarding the NPCs:
Watch the Digital Foundry review of Miles Morales. They say explicitly that in the reflections, movable objects are refreshed every frame, while pedestrians are refreshed "every other frame" to save on performance.

Maybe you should reevaluate your assessment of absurdity.
If you want so:
- it uses raytraced reflections only, no other RT effects (and?what change?)
- it uses reflections on very limited surfaces. For example the windows have reflections, while walls don't reflect anything. Which is understandable, because reflections on rough surfaces are way more compute heavy. In other games, every table, glass, glossy doors etc also reflect the (not true at all there are ground and wall with reflection in some areas so but more importan the quantity of the geometry handled which is not exactly basic)
- NPC reflections use lower quality models and are updated at 0.5fps (and you think it's not the same in other pc games?, 0,5fps is a stupid exaggeration)
- vegetation is reflected in a very simplified way (define simplified because it's a very generic statement)
- no particle effects and debris is reflected (BHV doesn't reflect transparency but just geometry)
- low resolution for the reflections (with raytracing as many other graphic effects it's better keep a lower resolution to save performance hardly it matches the same res of the game output)
- no reflections in the reflections (you already said that)
- etc.
Said that no one has claimed MM has no compromise but doesn't means what shows it's not impressive and easily to achieve in any hardware. And developers have said that not a casual member of a forum.
 
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Why did my post trigger you so much? Every point that I've listed is true. If you have factual arguments that prove me wrong, you're very welcome to educate me. If not, then I don't understand what you're trying to do here.

Regarding the NPCs:
Watch the Digital Foundry review of Miles Morales. They say explicitly that in the reflections, movable objects are refreshed every frame, while pedestrians are refreshed "every other frame" to save on performance.

Maybe you should reevaluate your assessment of absurdity.


He's so triggered because he's a sony fanatic. He takes your posts as personal afronts of his lord and master sony.
 
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assurdum

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He's so triggered because he's a sony fanatic. He takes your posts as personal afronts of his lord and master sony.
What exactly I said to be fanatic? Be careful with some definition dude, I haven't defined you in any way yet, but I could if you really want to follow this way
 
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regawdless

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If you want so:
- it uses raytraced reflections only, no other RT effects (and?what change?)
- it uses reflections on very limited surfaces. For example the windows have reflections, while walls don't reflect anything. Which is understandable, because reflections on rough surfaces are way more compute heavy. In other games, every table, glass, glossy doors etc also reflect the (not true at all there are ground and wall with reflection in some areas so but more importan the quantity of the geometry handled which is not exactly basic)
- NPC reflections use lower quality models and are updated at 0.5fps (and you think it's not the same in other pc games?, 0,5fps is a stupid exaggeration)
- vegetation is reflected in a very simplified way (define simplified because it's a very generic statement)
- no particle effects and debris is reflected (BHV doesn't reflect transparency but just geometry)
- low resolution for the reflections (with raytracing as many other graphic effects it's better keep a lower resolution to save performance hardly it matches the same res of the game output)
- no reflections in the reflections (you already said that)
- etc.
Said that no one has claimed MM has no compromise but doesn't means what shows it's not impressive and easily to achieve in any hardware. And developers have said that not a casual member of a forum.

Wow. You obviously have never played games with raytracing on high-end PCs and did not watch the DF analysis videos of Spider-Man. I'm not even going to bother.

Enjoy your PS5 and sorry for making you feel insecure regarding your purchase decision. It's a great "little" machine for the price.
 
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Mr Moose

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Wow. You obviously have never played games with raytracing on high-end PCs and did not watch the DF analysis videos of Spider-Man. I'm not even going to bother.

Enjoy your PS5 and sorry for making you feel insecure regarding your purchase decision. It's a great "little" machine for the price.
You're talking about the 60fps RT mode, and you're lying out of your ass, it's not 0.5fps.
 

regawdless

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You're talking about the 60fps RT mode, and you're lying out of your ass, it's not 0.5fps.

I'm talking about the 30fps mode. And have to correct myself, it's at 0.5 of the fps, so at half the refresh rate. Thanks for pointing it out. That's what writing mobile on the go does, sorry for that.

I've edited and corrected my post.
 
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Mr Moose

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I'm talking about the 30fps mode. And have to correct myself, it's at 0.5 of the fps, so at half the refresh rate. Thanks for pointing it out. That's what writing mobile on the go does, sorry for that.
I was going to say, it would be a literal slide show at 0.5fps lol.
 
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assurdum

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Wow. You obviously have never played games with raytracing on high-end PCs and did not watch the DF analysis videos of Spider-Man. I'm not even going to bother.

Enjoy your PS5 and sorry for making you feel insecure regarding your purchase decision. It's a great "little" machine for the price.
You obviously don't know of what you are talking about and the only insecure here seem you if you need desperately to call someone fanboy because he pointed out what you said is generic as hell and not true at all. Or you have some evidence about your assumptions? I have specified what's is it pretentious point by point in your list, I get an insult and a link to the DF videos as it was the holy bible, where is really arguable in some of their "professional straws", more than a time, as the same Dictator who thinks to be a sort of guru in tech stuff and never has the humbleness to discuss without try to downplay everyone shows some doubts about his assumption.
 
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regawdless

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You obviously don't know of what you are talking about and the only insecure here seems you if you need to call someone fanboy because he pointed out what you said is generic as hell and is not true at all. Or you have some evidence where all characters on pc are always higher model in raytracing? But sure it's me the problem not your preconception about the raytracing stuff on ps5 without fundament.

Quick comments:

- it uses raytraced reflections only, no other RT effects (and?what change?)
Meaning that Spidey only uses raytraced reflections. No raytraced shadow or lighting techniques whatsoever. So it uses only a portion of the possible raytracing effects.
- it uses reflections on very limited surfaces. For example the windows have reflections, while walls don't reflect anything. Which is understandable, because reflections on rough surfaces are way more compute heavy. In other games, every table, glass, glossy doors etc also reflect the (not true at all there are ground and wall with reflection in some areas so but more importan the quantity of the geometry handled which is not exactly basic)
Windows in buildings have reflections, but the walls of the buildings don't. Most rough surfaces don't reflect the light in this game. Because it's very expensive to render.
- NPC reflections use lower quality models and are updated at 0.5fps (and you think it's not the same in other pc games?, 0,5fps is a stupid exaggeration)
My fault, I meant at 0.5 of the fps, meaning half refresh rate. NPC models are low quality, still.
- vegetation is reflected in a very simplified way (define simplified because it's a very generic statement)
It uses a significantly lower assets for the reflections and has to reduce alpha effects. If there's a tree with a lot of leaves for example, the reflection is way more "naked".
- no particle effects and debris is reflected (BHV doesn't reflect transparency but just geometry)
Confirming the point that no smoke, particles, debris etc. is being reflected.
- low resolution for the reflections (with raytracing as many other graphic effects it's better keep a lower resolution to save performance hardly it matches the same res of the game output)
It uses visibly lower resolution for performance reasons.
- no reflections in the reflections (you already said that)
I didn't and the point still stands
- etc.

Look, there's no need for the PS5 defense force here. I've pointed out the sacrifices they had to make to get it to run and look the way it does. It is using only reflections out of the possible RT effects and has to make huge sacrifices to make it feasible. Therefore it only uses very basic raytracing. I don't understand how this is debatable. RT has a lot more potential.
No RT shadows, audio or lighting, only reflections and these are being used with huge shortcuts for the sake of draw distance. It is still very respectable considering the hardware and the scale of the game. All these sacrifices make the impressive draw distance possible and it was the perfect decision by the devs to go that route.

But I think it is obvious how limited they were regarding their compute budget. Keep in mind that this is basically an updated PS4 game.

I don't what know you're up against. It's great for a 399 machine and nothing comes even cose to its performance per buck ratio. But we should keep our expectations in check.

My comment about it being a great little machine was a joke because that thing is fucking huge.
 
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assurdum

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Quick comments:

- it uses raytraced reflections only, no other RT effects (and?what change?)
Meaning that Spidey only uses raytraced reflections. No raytraced shadow or lighting techniques whatsoever. So it uses only a portion of the possible raytracing effects.
- it uses reflections on very limited surfaces. For example the windows have reflections, while walls don't reflect anything. Which is understandable, because reflections on rough surfaces are way more compute heavy. In other games, every table, glass, glossy doors etc also reflect the (not true at all there are ground and wall with reflection in some areas so but more importan the quantity of the geometry handled which is not exactly basic)
Windows in buildings have reflections, but the walls of the buildings don't. Most rough surfaces don't reflect the light in this game. Because it's very expensive to render.
- NPC reflections use lower quality models and are updated at 0.5fps (and you think it's not the same in other pc games?, 0,5fps is a stupid exaggeration)
My fault, I meant at 0.5 of the fps, meaning half refresh rate. NPC models are low quality, still.
- vegetation is reflected in a very simplified way (define simplified because it's a very generic statement)
It uses a significantly lower assets for the reflections and has to reduce alpha effects. If there's a tree with a lot of leaves for example, the reflection is way more "naked".
- no particle effects and debris is reflected (BHV doesn't reflect transparency but just geometry)
Confirming the point that no smoke, particles, debris etc. is being reflected.
- low resolution for the reflections (with raytracing as many other graphic effects it's better keep a lower resolution to save performance hardly it matches the same res of the game output)
It uses visibly lower resolution for performance reasons.
- no reflections in the reflections (you already said that)
I didn't and the point still stands
- etc.

Look, there's no need for the PS5 defense force here. I've pointed out the sacrifices they had to make to get it to run and look the way it does. It is using only reflections out of the possible RT effects and has to make huge sacrifices to make it feasible. Therefore it only uses very basic raytracing. I don't understand how this is debatable. RT has a lot more potential.
No RT shadows, audio or lighting, only reflections and these are being used with huge shortcuts for the sake of draw distance. It is still very respectable considering the hardware and the scale of the game. All these sacrifices make the impressive draw distance possible and it was the perfect decision by the devs to go that route.

But I think it is obvious how limited they were regarding their compute budget. Keep in mind that this is basically an updated PS4 game.

I don't what know you're up against. It's great for a 399 machine and nothing comes even cose to its performance per buck ratio. But we should keep our expectations in check.

My comment about it being a great little machine was a joke because that thing is fucking huge.
First I never talked about the ps5 hardware so what it has to do to what I'm saying it's not clear to me. About what you said in the list, I have nothing against it, I just reported how generic and imprecise can be your points (as pointless) and sometimes even wrong. But if your point is provide there are compromises, never said otherwise; but you think on pc isn't it any kind of compromise too when raytracing is involved? Most of the times lower buffer is applied in the raytracing or native resolution needs to be reconstructed via DLSS because resources are never enough. Say in MM there is very basic raytracing is stupidish and quite ungenerous, because different developers have praised it for the quantity of the geometry involved but because the DF analysis reported the cut back (as always) we are talking of raytracing very basic.
The more fun thing is the same Dictator now so involved to report how basic is raytracing on MM, years ago called me out in an another forum to have said raytracing would have been possible on ps5, because for him Cerny lied, console couldn't be enough powerful and raytracing couldn't be compromised. Now he has invented the term of basic raytracing when hearing him the year before shouldn't even exist a basic raytracing.
 
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itsjustJEFF

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I have no idea how powerful an 5700 is compared to a PS5, but do you guys actually stop in-game, slow down and look at the reflections? I'd imagine that you'd only see this shit if you were looking for it, am I crazy? During game play is this something you even notice or it this just for comparison purposes? If it is, then I understand but also... I play games in motion, but in screen shots.

EDIT: i just remembered this is an enthusiast forums and this kind of stuff is a normal thing, my bad... move along.
 
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Arioco

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I think PS5 is already performing slightly better than a 5700XT. And I expect the gap to widen in the future.
 
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regawdless

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First I never talked about the ps5 hardware specs so what it has to do to what I'm saying it's not clear to me. About what you said on list, I never said to be against it, I just reported how generic and imprecise are your point and sometimes even wrong. But if your point is provided there are compromises yeah it has compromises but you think on pc isn't it any kind of compromise too when raytracing is involved? I can pointed out how many times lower buffer is applied in the raytracing or how native resolution needs to be reconstructed via DLSS because resources are never enough. Say in MM is very basic raytracing is stupidish and ungenerous, I continue to repeat to you different developers has praised it because the quantity of the geometry involved is quite impressive but because the DF analysis is mainly invested to report the cut back (as always) we are talking of raytracing very basic.

The more fun thing is the same Dictator now invested to report how basic is raytracing on MM, years ago called me out in an another forum to have said raytracing would have been possible on ps5, because for him Cerny lied, console couldn't be enough powerful and raytracing couldn't be compromised. Now he invented the term of basic raytracing when hearing him the year before shouldn't even exist a basic raytracing.

What do I care about your personal beef with Dictator?

If we look at Cyberpunk for example and the wide range of raytracing it utilizes while also reflecting buildings and geometry many kilometers away... while Spider-Man only does these reflection while having to take even more shortcuts.... Yes, Spider-Man uses very basic and limited raytracing.


Of course there are always compromises. I'm saying that Spider-Man has to have way more compromises due to its limited compute power compared to high-end PCs. Which is obvious because the PS5 only costs 399. I don't get how any of this is debatable or even divisive.

It seems like very limited RT reflections only, without any other RT effect, are the second coming of Jesus Christ to you. Just because buildings far away are being reflected. It's not that difficult. It's again, very basic.

You seem to be impressed very easily. If it's done by a PS5.