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[TBiddy]

Pointing out that people are laughing is not FUD. It's funny because people are clueless as to why SSD are being used next gen. I guess you guys don't like facts very much at all.

Start naming the "xbox fans in this thread" then. You apparantly love "facts" so much, that it should be easy for you to name the xbox fans in this thread, that laughed at you.

 

[DForce]

Start naming the "xbox fans in this thread" then. You apparantly love "facts" so much, that it should be easy for you to name the xbox fans in this thread, that laughed at you back then.

It's obvious you don't pay attention very well.

Look at the comment about data streaming and what the SSD is used for. You can see Xbox fans laugh reacting my post.

I then decided to post two clips from Bluepoint which backs up my point.


Do you need anymore help? Because it looks like you have no idea what's going on.

 

[Soodanim]

1. It’s often glossed over, but even the Series S having nice load times is a boost to the low end market. This shouldn’t be under-appreciated.
2. We need some PC comparisons to build a complete picture of where everything stands.

 

[TBiddy]

It's obvious you don't pay attention very well.

Look at the comment about data streaming and what the SSD is used for. You can see Xbox fans laugh reacting my post.

I then decided to post two clips from Bluepoint which backs up my point.


Do you need anymore help? Because it looks like you have no idea what's going on.

Skip the personal attacks please. It's a bad look for you.

People were most likely laughing at the "Those 1-2 second different might be come a factor down the line. " line, which makes no sense. The 1-2 second difference in loading time is not going to make a difference, when it comes to streaming assets, since they are two completely different things. Noone were laughing at you for claiming the SSDs would improve the streaming.. since that is well, obvious for every one on the board, and has been talked about in the last.. what, 6 months everywhere on the internet?

 

[DForce]

Skip the personal attacks please. It's a bad look for you.

People were most likely laughing at the "Those 1-2 second different might be come a factor down the line. " line, which makes no sense. The 1-2 second difference in loading time is not going to make a difference, when it comes to streaming assets, since they are two completely different things. Noone were laughing at you for claiming the SSDs would improve the streaming.. since that is well, obvious for every one on the board.

Don't make personal attacks and then complain when someone else does it.

The 1-2 second difference in loading time is not going to make a difference, when it comes to streaming assets, since they are two completely different things.

So when I talked about the dream of an SSD part of the reason for that 5 gigabytes a second target was to eliminate loads, but also part of the reason for that target was streaming as in what if the SSD is so fast that as the player is turning around. It's possible to load textures for everything behind the player in that split second.

If you figure that it takes half a second to turn that's 4GB of compressed data you can load that sounds about right for next gen.

Note: Next SECOND of gameplay

Mark Cerny disagrees with you.


Unreal Engine 4 was running with 8K textures and that would require a lot of assets to be streamed in and out, so yes a second DOES make a difference, especially if the character is traveling at a fast pace.

 

[scydrex]

Skip the personal attacks please. It's a bad look for you.

People were most likely laughing at the "Those 1-2 second different might be come a factor down the line. " line, which makes no sense. The 1-2 second difference in loading time is not going to make a difference, when it comes to streaming assets, since they are two completely different things. Noone were laughing at you for claiming the SSDs would improve the streaming.. since that is well, obvious for every one on the board, and has been talked about in the last.. what, 6 months everywhere on the internet?

Oh really? I remember those comments of members here laughing at him. Telling that the SSD would only take of 1-2 seconds and only will help to improve the loading nothing more.

 

[TBiddy]

Don't make personal attacks and then complain when someone else does it.

Mark Cerny disagrees with you.

You were acting dramatic. That's not an insult.

Mark Cerny is referring to streaming of assets. Not the loading of games... which is what I was trying to tell you. 1-2 seconds difference in loading times of a game is nothing and has absolutely nothing to do with how assets are streamed during gameplay.

Mark Cerny agrees with me.

Oh really? I remember those comments of members here laughing at him. Telling that the SSD would only take of 1-2 seconds and only will help to improve the loading nothing more.

Please do share said comments then.

 

[megreotsugua]

How games load aren’t the main differentiation here, especially for multiplats that have outdated engines. The main benefit is data streaming on PS5 mainly for 1st party and multiplats on UE5 that are optimized for PS5. Having 17-22GB/s on PS5 is the level of current DDR4 RAM’s (single channel), making the whole 825GB internal SSD a massive secondary RAM that can stream as fast as 22MB/ms.

I can't wait to see games that take advantage of that speed. PS5 has effectively bigger amount of usable RAM because it doesn't have to reserve RAM space for idle data.

More data = more detail. The limiting factor now would be asset production. I hope Sony's World Wide Studios are ready to take on the challenge.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I can't wait to see games that take advantage of that speed. PS5 has effectively bigger amount of usable RAM because it doesn't have to reserve RAM space for idle data.

More data = more detail. The limiting factor now would be asset production. I hope Sony's World Wide Studios are ready to take on the challenge.

I didn't even start talking about the elimination of LOD, that'll make assets insanely detailed (4-8K), and yet make games as big or smaller! And using Sony Atom View polygon streaming, or UE5 nanite.

 

[megreotsugua]

I didn't even start talking about the elimination of LOD, that'll make assets insanely detailed (4-8K), and yet make games as big or smaller! And using Sony Atom View polygon streaming, or UE5 nanite.

With new paradigms in rendering using the Geometry Engine, basically culling everything (back culling, frustrum culling) outside what the screen is showing, the GPU will be capable of rendering 8K textures and a lot more geometry. The limiting factor will be the tiny 16GB of RAM. But that is solved in the PS5 by the 17GB/s-22GB/s SSD decompression speed.

The downside perhaps with culling everything outside the player's screen would be no form ray-tracing like reflection. I wonder how they will solve that.

 

[DForce]

You were acting dramatic. That's not an insult.

Mark Cerny is referring to streaming of assets. Not the loading of games... which is what I was trying to tell you. 1-2 seconds difference in loading times of a game is nothing and has absolutely nothing to do with how assets are streamed during gameplay.

Mark Cerny agrees with me.

Laughing and posting facts is not being dramatic.

I pointed out streaming assets in my initial post.

No.

If an extra 3-5 seconds didn't matter, then Mark Cerny would've went with a slower SSD.

PS5/XsX doesn't have any games that streaming in a lot of assets while you're playing a game. That's going to change a few years down the line and that few extra seconds is going to make a difference

This is why you should read. If my post gets you this upset by posting facts, you should just mute me.

 

[IDKFA]

SSD doing God's work there. Very impressive results.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Sony didn't go with this set up just to shave a few seconds off of what a more standard SSD could do to loading times it's going to help stream assets into games faster as well and that's the bigger benefit.

Asset streaming relies on random access of data, though, and load times are a metric of sequential access speeds. One is not actually indicative of the other.

It's like how a SSD with a higher sequential read bandwidth can end up having a much slower random read and write bandwidth than the drive with a slower sequential read bandwidth. For stuff like asset streaming, a lot more is at play.

Also, I think in light of the Until Dawn update (the firmware update, that eliminated load times on the game on PS4), this should also show that you don't necessarily need a hyper-fast SSD considering the PS4 is stuck with SATA II standard:

https://www.thesixthaxis.com/2020/1...h-notes-ps4-loading-time-improved-before-ps5/

So much of the I/O stack in games comes down to how devs organize the code in the game itself, it isn't something that has to predicate itself solely on the surrounding hardware. This is probably a chief reason MS has chosen the pursuit of DirectStorage the way they did. This is my own speculation, but it's very possible that games which choose to optimize their I/O stack in how they handle code and what data to prioritize to launch the game state (even if yet more data is streamed in to memory in the background), can basically work around any hard limitations in the base I/O hardware.

This would apply to both systems but I'm framing it in the context of the Series platforms here because it means, particularly for 1P games, I won't be surprised if later in the generation they have load times within the 2-3 second range on average. The same would apply to asset streaming; Epic did say they had to rewrite their file I/O system on UE5, but that should also be indicative of something else: the software stack regards any I/O system is just as important (and arguably MORE important) than the hardware of the I/O itself. Hardware means nothing if the software can't harness it.

While I think both systems will transcend their paper specs WRT data I/O performance with the storage devices, I think there's more of a chance MS's 1P in particular really "punch above their weight" (I'm really loathing this term now xD) later in the generation in this regard. The question is how specific the I/O stacks in software code would be in a game-to-game basis because that ultimately determines if 3P titles on Series systems will attempt similar things or just settle for working with the peak limits of XvA (which are still very good in themselves, mind). With Sony the floor for storage data I/O performance is already higher so that is going to be universal across 1P and 3P titles, so as things go on even if XvA closes the gap over time by a considerable margin, the advantage will always favor PS5. It's in the 1P titles where it gets very interesting, and where the gap will more or less likely vanish into margins of error.

 

[FrankWza]

But bu b b b b.... Sony’s magic SSD.

I’ve seen this get butchered so many times the last week. Now, we have people doing it where they’re imitating Wolverine?

 

[Lysandros]

I love how blazingly fast the actual PS5 games are. But I'm a little annoyed that a game like Monster Hunter from the previous generation loads so much slower on the PS5 than the XSX. According to this video, the PS5 is barely even faster than a PS4 Pro with an old SSD installed. I just doesn't make sense.

I hope they patch it to take better advantage of the PS5 hardware, but I know it's unlikely.

I agree, that's annoying; Sony should do something about it.

 

[Allandor]

I didn't even start talking about the elimination of LOD, that'll make assets insanely detailed (4-8K), and yet make games as big or smaller! And using Sony Atom View polygon streaming, or UE5 nanite.

It is not such a good idea to eliminate LOD. This would have other side-effects like wasted resources (because details you can't see have still to be computed) and if you get Details that get below pixel-size, you can get really ugly shimmering effects.

Also you can't get everything to 4k/8k assets (whatever this means) because of the size of the assets. If you're making a whole game so detailed like the unreal demo, you will need a few more consoles, just to store the data. There are always limits to what can be achieved. The difference with the new generation of consoles is just, that the IO is no longer the limit for most scenarios.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

It is not such a good idea to eliminate LOD. This would have other side-effects like wasted resources (because details you can't see have still to be computed) and if you get Details that get below pixel-size, you can get really ugly shimmering effects.

Also you can't get everything to 4k/8k assets (whatever this means) because of the size of the assets. If you're making a whole game so detailed like the unreal demo, you will need a few more consoles, just to store the data. There are always limits to what can be achieved. The difference with the new generation of consoles is just, that the IO is no longer the limit for most scenarios.

Assets get replicated endlessly, so when you sum up all the assets used they're not as varied as you would think. Eliminating and keeping only one saves a lot of space while showing near infinite transitions without pop ins/outs.

It's the future, maybe 2-3 years from now we'll start to see some.

 

[Slikk360]

Well I received an email from Walmart saying my ps5 was delayed, so what I'll do is try to buy one today and pickup at the store and cancel the other that's delayed.

 

[iHaunter]

Only 20-30% is not what you'd expect from an SSD that's twice as fast, at least on paper.

SSD itself isn't the only thing that's involved... you still have to render everything which takes GPU/CPU power.

 

[mckmas8808]

SSD itself isn't the only thing that's involved... you still have to render everything which takes GPU/CPU power.

The PS5 software update has seemed to speed up many BC games on the PS5. People should retest them now.

 

[Dolomite]

Only 20-30% is not what you'd expect from an SSD that's twice as fast, at least on paper.

That's 20-30% on certain titles if optimized as such. The Gap is MUCH closer out of the gate this Gen

 

[v_iHuGi]

I agree, that's annoying; Sony should do something about it.

It's done, day 1 patch & Ps5 now obliterates SX.

 

[MiguelItUp]

I figured the load times wouldn't be much different. I mean, the hardware says it all. But for whatever reason there were folks (fanboys/trolls) thinking it was going to be night and day when comparing, so silly.

 

[jaysius]

It's done, day 1 patch & Ps5 now obliterates SX.

Day 1 patch of EVERYTHING? Day1 patch of what? The PS5 itself?

The real truth is, if this were a dick measuring contest, it'd be near a tie, the girl would be smitten, it'd just be some semi-homoerotic dick sword fight at this point.

BOTH machines are GOOD.

We are REALLY splitting hairs here.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Both looking great, going to be a great generation

 

[Lysandros]

It's done, day 1 patch & Ps5 now obliterates SX.

Nice improvement, but isn't the word 'oblitarate' a bit strong for 1-2 second lead? I expect better personally.

 

[iHaunter]

The PS5 software update has seemed to speed up many BC games on the PS5. People should retest them now.

It'll continue to improve, for both consoles, more for PS5 since it has more capability in that area. As the firmware updates come in, OS becomes more optimized, etc.

Same with GPUs, my 2080TI will probably perform better than some of the new ones because the drivers and firmware are tuned so well.

 

[MrFunSocks]

You know why the xbox has those extra non-skippable logos right? because it's covering the loading, the PS5 doesn't have them because it doesn't need them.

That's not it at all - the PS5 has a feature where it only shows certain splash screens once, on the first time you load the game. Never see them again. That's the difference here.

 

[Rolla]

I'm amazed at how much competition digital foundry has and how wildly these PS5/SX results vary on the same game.

Depending on who is doing the comparison.

 

[kevm3]

So for all the fanboys beating each other with axes and hammers over these consoles specs, for the most part visually and loadwise, most of the games have performed nearly the same.

 

[Grinchy]

I checked out Monster Hunter on the PS5 and it loads fast as fuck compared to before. I was initially upset with the comparison to the XSX, but without timing it myself, the loading into and out of a quest felt like nothing.

 

[Yams]

So for all the fanboys beating each other with axes and hammers over these consoles specs, for the most part visually and loadwise, most of the games have performed nearly the same.

That's how it's going to be this gen. Unless you're sitting down with your atomic clock and magnifying glass, differences aren't going to be apparent.

 

[nyr88nyg]

So for all the fanboys beating each other with axes and hammers over these consoles specs, for the most part visually and loadwise, most of the games have performed nearly the same.

Agreed. Both consoles are great.

 

[MastaKiiLA]

People will argue for no given reason, but he load times still bug me a bit. It wouldn't be an issue if MM and DS didn't exist, but they do, so loading data for even an open world shouldn't take as long as it does in the Ubi games. I'm wondering if this is going to be a continued feature of multiplat PS5 ports, or if we'll eventually see games built to take advantage of its speed. I don't even think it's about level design, as DS takes a game designed for the PS3, and manages to crush loading times to nothing. Even the XSX should be enjoying a more pronounced advantage over current PC SSDs, but it's not. The start contrast to the first party titles is disappointing.

 

[MrFunSocks]

People will argue for no given reason, but he load times still bug me a bit. It wouldn't be an issue if MM and DS didn't exist, but they do, so loading data for even an open world shouldn't take as long as it does in the Ubi games. I'm wondering if this is going to be a continued feature of multiplat PS5 ports, or if we'll eventually see games built to take advantage of its speed. I don't even think it's about level design, as DS takes a game designed for the PS3, and manages to crush loading times to nothing. Even the XSX should be enjoying a more pronounced advantage over current PC SSDs, but it's not. The start contrast to the first party titles is disappointing.

There's more to load times than just loading data from the disk.

 

[Bogroll]

I checked out Monster Hunter on the PS5 and it loads fast as fuck compared to before. I was initially upset with the comparison to the XSX, but without timing it myself, the loading into and out of a quest felt like nothing.

Yes I haven't got a PS5 yet but I have a XSX and Iv'e seen plenty of videos of loading times and and I'm think yeah that's nice but when you experience the improved loading for real in your home I'm like Wow!

 

[sinnergy]

That's 20-30% on certain titles if optimized as such. The Gap is MUCH closer out of the gate this Gen

11.83? Series is faster?

 

[JCK75]

Xbox Series X has a power advantage that will show mildly over time, but the reality is we have two kickass new consoles that are insanely fast and not CPU bound like pretty much every console generation prior to now, so games are going to look amazing on both platforms provided there is no incompetence by the dev. Aside from the high costs of storage addons IMO this is the best start of a generation ever IMO just as far as setting the standards going forward. I NEVER get launch hardware, I wait years for revisions and sales.. but my 4K HDR capable TV was just begging for a new device so the time was right.

 

[yurinka]

Considering that by default Series X has 4.8GB/s and PS5 ~8-9GB/s, it's normal to expect 67%-88% faster loadings in PS5 when loading native next gen games.

But consider that loading screens also hide additional things like different checks, to create procedural stuff, server verifications and logins and so on, so if some of these things are CPU based Series X may cut them.

In a few months Oodle texture should enter the mix, so once games start using it should improve PS5 times until up to (never at this peak time) ~17-22GB/s.

In BC games PS5 will reduce the previous gen times compared to PS4 Pro more than Series X does compared to XB1X, but since the original XB1X games had way shorter times than PS4 Pro, loading times should be shorter in Series X BC games in most cases.