Support NeoGAF

[tuxfool]

What IS enough?

You're saying she was too "help me" in the game, and then you also say she was too awesome and brutal and savage too quickly. So which is it? Is she helpless or TOO vicious? .

The problem is that she is certainly both and that the transition is handled clumsily.

What was wrong with Jonah, Roth, or even Sam? The only one I didn't like was the dirtbag archaeologist... and we're not SUPPOSED to like him.

You're forgetting the others (whose names also escape me), there is the angry black woman, the naive nerdy guy, and crabby old ships captain. None of them justify their reason for being there, the way Lara is constantly crying about Sam certainly contrasts with her growth and served as a poorly justified Mcguffin. Nothing shown about Roth shows why Lara respects him, and I couldn't give a crap when he died. All in all the secondary cast gives the feeling of a teen afternoon tv show.

 

[viveks86]

Oh... I wasn't expecting "reconstruction" to be used that literally. Came to read about character development. Oh well...

 

[Toa TAK]

Crazy 'I want to get revenge and kill you all' Lara is the best Lara. I was rooting for her every time she decided to let loose.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

A bloody screenshot doesn't prove anything here. In some way it has the same artifice as the torture porn scenarios. There are bits and pieces that should help convey this but it never feels cohesive.

It's not "a bloody screenshot." I'm using a memorable moment in the game, which you have played, to illustrate Lara's pervading characterization in the game as a whole. All the secrets and character development of Lara Croft are not locked away in this single frame. It's a screenshot from a scene, from a level, from a game. It is indicative of Lara Croft as The Hunter and not the supposed "help me" fallacy other people propagate.

Also, enough with this "torture porn" bull shit. Jesus Christ. This isn't directed specifically at you, but you brought it up. TR is no more graphic than other games with brutal deaths like Gears of War, Limbo, Dead Space, or Resident Evil 4. You sound like a freak when you call TR torture porn because the accusation is completely baseless. You're not the only one, but all you people are extremely problematic, because somehow you are taking gruesome death scenes and interpreting them as pseudo-sexual indulgences. And the only thing separating TR from other games is the fact that Lara is female. So unless you can make a substantiated argument about TR2013 apparently being torture porn while all these other games are not you should stop regurgitating this pop-criticism against it.

It's a violent video game. Make a case against it in that regard if you want to. But until Lara's entrails are being cut out with a chainsaw bayonet or the flesh is being melted off her skull by acid, you have no case that scenes designed to make you dread failure constitute "torture porn."

 

[Crossing Eden]

I highly doubt this statement was ambivalent. They could've worded it "specifically" about making models.

They did.

"Making a human being is the most challenging thing when creating video games," says Senior Character Artist Kam Yu. "Technological advances help us get there but it needs a lot of skills.

"To make a believable character you need a good concept, the right model, shaders, animation, performance. It’s a complete package."

Try reading the article. It's almost all about the technical aspects and troubles of creating a next gen character model.

 

[Jonboy]

For some reason I thought this was going to be about how they changed Lara's face like 3 times.

Thought the exact same thing. I still prefer the original one they used.

 

[Tryxx]

I dont know about any of you but Tomb Raider has my hype levels past anything else. I have had so much "open world" games that i kinda crave that linear experience again and in my opinion it does not get much better than Tomb Raider. The last one is truly at the top of my list of greatest games, and this one is known to be "better" all around. Really excited, bring it to me baby!

 

[fantomena]

Rise better be better than the first game which was mediocre in every way, story wise it was total trash.

 

[Nuke Soda]

Except she does not maintain that "help-me" tone at all and drops it very, very early in favor of "I am coming for you ALL."

Like, you're not fooling anybody here.

"Help me"?

Looks like the shitter's clogged kid.

 

[tuxfool]

Also, enough with this "torture porn" bull shit. Jesus Christ. This isn't directed specifically at you, but you brought it up. TR is no more graphic than other games with brutal deaths like Gears of War, Limbo, Dead Space, or Resident Evil 4. You sound like a freak when you call TR torture porn because the accusation is completely baseless. You're not the only one, but all you people are extremely problematic, because somehow you are taking gruesome death scenes and interpreting them as pseudo-sexual indulgences. And the only thing separating TR from other games is the fact that Lara is female. So unless you can make a substantiated argument about TR2013 apparently being torture porn while all these other games are not you should stop regurgitating this pop-criticism against it.

It's a violent video game. Make a case against it in that regard if you want to. But until Lara's entrails are being cut out with a chainsaw bayonet or the flesh is being melted off her skull by acid, you have no case that scenes designed to make you dread failure constitute "torture porn."

The difference here is that none of those games are attempting to portray an inexperienced anybody as they have to deal with a horrible situation. Arguably of those games you listed, the only ones that fit the bill are Limbo and Dead Space. However those two games are certainly going for a horror or uncomfortable aesthetic.

My point isn't that they're sexual but the way the game indulges in these scenarios Like pulling the shrapnel and the cauterization scene. Their artifice is clearly felt because of the way the game is focusing on these events as some sort of crutch for Lara's personal growth. On their own they might have some impact, but it keeps on happening every few hours. To a certain degree in Uncharted, Drake is constantly subjected to these hangwire and horrible situations, but the difference there is that they diffuse it by the pulpy tone of the game and it isn't so self serious. It would be bothersome there too if they used these things to grow Drake.

There is no need to get angry if somebody disagrees with you.

 

[BriGuy]

I would love to see an old school Tomb Raider realized with this game's tech. TR13 was fine for what it was, but it wasn't Tomb Raider.

 

[PulseONE]

I'm definitely looking forward to it, sadly I don't own a 360 or a One...but I'll find a way to play it

The people in here who are complaining about her 'help me' attitude in the last one seemingly never played past the first couple hours in it...

 

[tuxfool]

I'm definitely looking forward to it, sadly I don't own a 360 or a One...but I'll find a way to play it

The people in here who are complaining about her 'help me' attitude in the last one seemingly never played past the first couple hours in it...

Weird. I remember playing it twice, but I could be imagining it.

 

[Straight Edge]

What's the latest this will drop on PS4? Feb 2016?

 

[GnawtyDog]

Oh... I wasn't expecting "reconstruction" to be used that literally. Came to read about character development. Oh well...

Same...

Also "inferior game character(s)".....are we going to talk about superior game character(s) too? Well you know...

 

[Arklite]

The difference here is that none of those games are attempting to portray an inexperienced anybody as they have to deal with a horrible situation. Arguably of those games you listed, the only ones that fit the bill are Limbo and Dead Space. However those two games are certainly going for a horror or uncomfortable aesthetic.

My point isn't that they're sexual but the way the game indulges in these scenarios Like pulling the shrapnel and the cauterization scene. Their artifice is clearly felt because of the way the game is focusing on these events as some sort of crutch for Lara's personal growth. On their own they might have some impact, but it keeps on happening every few hours.

There is no need to get angry if somebody disagrees with you.

Likewise, TR 2013 is absolutely going for a survival thriller vibe, with all of the tense and gruesome scenes that go with it, meant to instill a sense of present danger. I do agree that they maim her way too often in cinematics only for her to brush injuries aside like scratches, diminishing their impact almost completely. If they're going to injure her dramatically every other hour I'd like to have to deal with those injuries in some way, even in an MGS3 sort of way.

 

[tuxfool]

Likewise, TR 2013 is absolutely going for a survival thriller vibe, with all of the tense and gruesome scenes that go with it, meant to instill a sense of present danger. I do agree that they maim her way too often in cinematics only for her to brush injuries aside like scratches, diminishing their impact almost completely. If they're going to injure her dramatically every other hour I'd like to have to deal with those injuries in some way, even in an MGS3 sort of way.

Quite. Also that Survival Thriller vibe would be massively improved if Lara was alone. Having her troupe of jolly adventurers along for the ride detracted from that somewhat.

 

[Mononoke]

I still think she looks weird in cut scenes. But the tech images and gameplay sections she looks great. So I'm not sure why she looks so weird to me in cinematics. Maybe the lighting.

Anyways, the reboot had great gameplay with the exploration sections. Action moments were epic. Some of the shooting areas were linear, but it was fine. I thought the writing was awful, especially the character moments. Plot was cliche/shlock. So if they just improve the script here, I think the game will be great. I actually immensely enjoyed the reboot.

But she doesn't really maintain that tone...she very clearly grows out of it in the game.

She actually changed too quickly. Goes from a scared/timid person, to a professional killer. The transition was kind of bad, as they had quick cut scenes of her feeling bad for killing, but then they moved on so quickly past it that it didn't have weight.

Lara does go through a lot of torture, as the game does whatever is can to beat her down over and over and put her next to deaths door every 30 min. She might not be timid by this point (and is more an aggressive killer), but it does feel like the game still tries to pile on as much pain/suffering as possible -- and it feels silly after a point.

 

[spekkeh]

I'd say that is part of the problem. She utterly savages enemies in this game, while maintaining that "help-me" tone.

The writing in that game was almost uniformly awful.

I'm sorry, but that is not enough. Yes she sort starts saying the expected words, but not in the right way (possibly at fault is the acting). I should also mention that her inexperience to absolute savage ramps up in a very short time.

I'm sorry but your argument changes in a very short time. The writing of your posts is uniformly awful. Could also be the acting that is at fault.

 

[Garlador]

What's the latest this will drop on PS4? Feb 2016?

Nobody knows and nobody is going to dare talk about it until that exclusivity window ends.

... But I'm going to wait too.

She actually changed too quickly. Goes from a scared/timid person, to a professional killer. The transition was kind of bad, as they had quick cut scenes of her feeling bad for killing, but then they moved on so quickly past it that it didn't have weight.

Lara does go through a lot of torture, as the game does whatever is can to beat her down over and over and put her next to deaths door every 30 min. She might not be timid by this point (and is more an aggressive killer), but it does feel like the game still tries to pile on as much pain/suffering as possible -- and it feels silly after a point.

I never understood this. I can understand being shocked and scared at first, but nothing about her history before the island incident implies she was "timid" in any way. She's already been on a few adventures and even mentions she's dealt with plenty of bar room brawls and stitching up severed flesh. She's always been a strong character, Roth tells her that repeatedly. But this is just the biggest test for her endurance yet.

And, again, does everyone forget the conversation she has after killing that one guy? "It must have been hard for you." "Actually, it was scary how easy it was..." She's surprised and disgusted not that she killed a guy... but that she actually did it and moved on so easily. She struggles with that for a bit before embracing that survivalist and ruthless side of herself because, in her own words, it's "easy" for her to slip into.

I also never understood why Lara gets all this criticism for enduring and surviving such painful ordeals... and yet I rarely see folks complain about Isaac Clarke getting it even worse in Dead Space, or Joel in The Last of Us, or Batman in Arkham series. Everything she endures they endured. It's a video game trope. Batman gets shot in the belly in one game and that's barely the half-way point. He goes on to beat up another 3,000 thugs without even having to catch his breath.

 

[TomShoe]

What's the latest this will drop on PS4? Feb 2016?

*heavy breathing*

must...avoid....posting

 

[tuxfool]

I also never understood why Lara gets all this criticism for enduring and surviving such painful ordeals... and yet I rarely see folks complain about Isaac Clarke getting it even worse in Dead Space, or Joel in The Last of Us, or Batman in Arkham series. Everything she endures they endured. It's a video game trope. Batman gets shot in the belly in one game and that's barely the half-way point. He goes on to beat up another 3,000 thugs without even having to catch his breath.

Similar to examples an earlier post, none of those apply. Dead Space is Survival Horror, it isn't trying to create a story of personal growth. Joel is a seasoned killer by the time the main game starts (it skips his and society's devolution) and Batman chooses to enter in harms way, it is his job.

Oddly enough, you mentioned Joel. A more appropriate comparison to what they were attempting with Lara was handled far better in TLoU when you play as Ellie. Of course, they have the benefit of being able to treat it as a small vignette but the way they approached it felt more engaging and less forced.

 

[Angelus Errare]

The transition from "help me " Lara to "Mass murderer with no remorse" Lara was so abrupt it ends up being really funny to me.

She feels horrible she kills a deer, not even 30 minutes later are you killing dudes left and right on some predator shit.

 

[Mononoke]

Nobody knows and nobody is going to dare talk about it until that exclusivity window ends.

... But I'm going to wait too.


I never understood this. I can understand being shocked and scared at first, but nothing about her history before the island incident implies she was "timid" in any way. She's already been on a few adventures and even mentions she's dealt with plenty of bar room brawls and stitching up severed flesh. She's always been a strong character, Roth tells her that repeatedly. But this is just the biggest test for her endurance yet.

And, again, does everyone forget the conversation she has after killing that one guy? "It must have been hard for you." "Actually, it was scary how easy it was..." She's surprised and disgusted not that she killed a guy... but that she actually did it and moved on so easily. She struggles with that for a bit before embracing that survivalist and ruthless side of herself because, in her own words, it's "easy" for her to slip into.

I also never understood why Lara gets all this criticism for enduring and surviving such painful ordeals... and yet I rarely see folks complain about Isaac Clarke getting it even worse in Dead Space, or Joel in The Last of Us, or Batman in Arkham series. Everything she endures they endured. It's a video game trope. Batman gets shot in the belly in one game and that's barely the half-way point. He goes on to beat up another 3,000 thugs without even having to catch his breath.

Don't know what to say. But her personality is very unsure of herself, and she comes off jittery. I'm not even complaining that Lara was scared/timid, as she quickly transitions into a hardened warrior quickly. But I def found her personality to be, maybe not timid, but at least not assured and aggressive like she is later on. Her convos in cut scenes on the boat show her as very unsure of herself and her personality comes of as more passive.

Maybe timid is too strong a word. But they clearly set her up to transition throughout the story. My only comment was that I found her transition into killing to feel a bit silly and lacking weight from a dramatic perspective. This point wasn't even a big deal to me, as I don't agree with people that Lara comes off as scared throughout. The game gets that out of the way pretty quick. Although Lara does stress at various points and has self doubts about her abilities. So it is a plot point that happens throughout the story. So I wasn't saying her overall personality transition was handled quickly. That still goes on throughout the game.

Lastly, I still stand by what I said about the writers throwing everything possible at Lara to the point it feels silly. I started to laugh after seeing Lara fall down and break her 20th bone. They pile on all as much torture/pain on her as possible, and it almost becomes comical at a certain point. Logically you could explain this as Lara not being a seasoned explorer/warrior. So her falling down throughout, actually makes sense. But I personally felt from a pacing perspective, it became a bit much.

 

[Majestad]

The transition from "help me " Lara to "Mass murderer with no remorse" Lara was so abrupt it ends up being really funny to me.

She feels horrible she kills a deer, not even 30 minutes later are you killing dudes left and right on some predator shit.

What the fuck would you do if you were surrounded by lunatic murderers and rapists? Tell me.

 

[Metroidvania]

Still prefer the original TR2013 face, but this is a nice level of detail they're going into, and at least its not as bad as the DE face.

 

[Trup1aya]

I'm baffled that fans of this franchise are taking issue with Lara's character development...

I don't think that the first game was perfect, but, character development was never this series strong point...

 

[Mononoke]

What the fuck would you do if you were surrounded by lunatic murderers and rapists? Tell me.

That's not the point. It's the quickness with which the cut scenes take place, that it doesn't really hold weight. It comes off as an obvious transition into needing shooting mechanics for gameplay. The story itself kind of blows by it. It's the writing and character moments that kind of fall flat. Also her "I was surprised how easy it was to kill line" kind of feels like an excuse to not explore the character further, and the psychological trauma she is going through.

In contrast to the character we are introduced to earlier in the game, it comes off clunky.

Her having to kill to survive is fine.

I'm baffled that fans of this franchise are taking issue with Lara's character development...

I don't think that the first game was perfect, but, character development was never this series strong point...

The reboot went for a more action/drama adventure. So it's fair to be critical at their attempt at this. I mean this was a reboot, and was a more story driven game. Some of to writing elements fell flat for some of us, and we just hope the next game does better. I personally found the writing to be the worst part of the reboot. A lot of the character scenes were pretty bad, and the story is kind of bad.

But as a game, it,was great IMO.

 

[Garlador]

Similar to examples an earlier post, none of those apply. Dead Space is Survival Horror, it isn't trying to create a story of personal growth. Joel is a seasoned killer by the time the main game starts (it skips his and society's devolution) and Batman chooses to enter in harms way, it is his job.

Oddly enough, you mentioned Joel. A more appropriate comparison to what they were attempting with Lara was handled far better in TLoU when you play as Ellie. Of course, they have the benefit of being able to treat it as a small vignette but the way they approached it felt more engaging and less forced.

Giant chunks of Tomb Raider 2013 are survival thriller... just as much as Dead Space 2 (it wasn't ALWAYS full-on horror).

And I'll take umbrage with Dead Space 2 NOT having a story of personal growth. One of the reasons it's one of my favorite games is because the whole game is Isaac Clarke going through the various stages of grief and acceptance of loss. It's an extremely character-driven game, probably more-so than even Tomb Raider was.

So I simply don't see his journey in Dead Space 2 and the survival he's thrown into against his will as that different than Lara's journey in Tomb Raider... only Isaac actually DOES break and gives up and the struggle overwhelms him to the point of losing any and all hope... and someone else has to come in and save him. Lara never got to that low of a point in her game.

It still doesn't discredit the fact that Joel and Batman and others get roughed up FAR worse than Lara does, regardless of character growth, so I'm not sure why people say Lara's in a "torture porn" while they're given a pass. Is it because they're men?

 

[tuxfool]

I'm baffled that fans of this franchise are taking issue with Lara's character development...

I don't think that the first game was perfect, but, character development was never this series strong point...

The series used to have next to no character development. TR2013 added some and made it a point of focus. However, some people feel it wasn't handled that well. Bad enough that at times I preferred the old Lara. The rest of the game was fine, but it doesn't mean the story gets a pass.

 

[pmj]

I don't understand how there can be any fans of the original reboot face. It's stuck in a look of worry throughout the entire game. None of her character development is reflected in her face.

She's much improved in the DE. She might look too confident for the beginning, but an hour in and for the rest of the game it's a much better fit.

It still doesn't discredit the fact that Joel and Batman and others get roughed up FAR worse than Lara does, regardless of character growth, so I'm not sure why people say Lara's in a "torture porn" while they're given a pass. Is it because they're men?

For me I think it's because it's so drawn out. I'm not used to being treated to minutes long segments of my character crying in pain. It just went on and on and on.

 

[tuxfool]

It still doesn't discredit the fact that Joel and Batman and others get roughed up FAR worse than Lara does, regardless of character growth, so I'm not sure why people say Lara's in a "torture porn" while they're given a pass. Is it because they're men?

Nope. It very much has to do with how those scenes are framed. It is clear that some people disagree with me to the point of getting angry, but I feel that TR2013 beats you over the head with situations where something bad is happening to Lara. These scenes almost always seem to happen in cutscenes but then when the game starts back up none of these scenes of bodily harm seem to have impact, and Lara is back to adeptly murdering, hence the Porn aspect.

There is some conflict with game design which cannot be escaped but the transitions are really jarring and it it seems to happen quite frequently. I can't seem to recall equivalent scenes in TLoU (care to remind me?) and Batman, I feel, very much benefits from comic book and Superhero tropes and associations, in my head at least.

I can't speak to Dead Space 2 because I didn't play it.

 

[Garlador]

For me I think it's because it's so drawn out. I'm not used to being treated to minutes long segments of my character crying in pain. It just went on and on and on.

I know opinions vary, but I only found it drawn-out because I was, at the time, going through a physical ordeal and ANY character, even Isaac Clarke in Dead Space and Joel in The Last of Us, screams and moans in pain whenever that stuff happens.

Then again, I also played Metroid: Other M that same year, and Lara didn't look nearly as bad by comparison...

Nope. It very much has to do with how those scenes are framed. It is clear that some people disagree with me to the point of getting angry, but I feel that TR2013 beats you over the head with situations where something bad is happening to Lara. These scenes almost always seem to happen in cutscenes but then when the game starts back up none of these scenes of bodily harm seem to have impact, and Lara is back to adeptly murdering, hence the Porn aspect.

Again, how is that different than, say, Isaac Clarke in Dead Space? The man gets pulverized left and right and, after the cutscene, continues on like normal. How about Batman? In the newest game, he gets shot right in the belly and, the very next scene, you have to fight 50 dudes in hand-to-hand combat. Why is it such a problem for Lara, but not for them?

There is some conflict with game design which cannot be escaped but the transitions are really jarring and it it seems to happen quite frequently. I can't seem to recall equivalent scenes in TLoU (care to remind me?) and Batman, I feel, very much benefits from comic book and Superhero tropes and associations, in my head at least.

Both are silly in my head. Lara ends the game fighting giant zombie samurais... It's all silly in its own way.

I can't speak to Dead Space 2 because I didn't play it.

You should. It's incredible.

 

[pmj]

Again, how is that different than, say, Isaac Clarke in Dead Space? The man gets pulverized left and right and, after the cutscene, continues on like normal. How about Batman? In the newest game, he gets shot right in the belly and, the very next scene, you have to fight 50 dudes in hand-to-hand combat. Why is it such a problem for Lara, but not for them?

But in Tomb Raider it isn't just for the cutscene. Afterwards she'll have her hand on the part of her body that she injured. She'll talk to the player about how much pain she's in. She'll moan and whimper. There's never a joke to lighten the mood. No comment about how she can deal with it and get back at the bad guys. Just her by herself, sad and lost and hurting.

It was a long time since I played Dead Space 2, but I can't remember anything of this nature happening.

 

[Ivan Amiibo]

Maybe they'll settle on a design that actually carries over to the next game this time.

 

[DeepEnigma]

But in Tomb Raider it isn't just for the cutscene. Afterwards she'll have her hand on the part of her body that she injured. She'll talk to the player about how much pain she's in. She'll moan and whimper. There's never a joke to lighten the mood. No comment about how she can deal with it and get back at the bad guys. Just her by herself, sad and lost and hurting.

It was a long time since I played Dead Space 2, but I can't remember anything of this nature happening.

This is definitely a part that felt lose and odd when playing. Weak, scared, vulnerable. Raging acrobatic parkour badass covered in blood. Ouch I am a vulnerable delicate flower, again!

Was this a bi-polar hormonal simulator?

I still liked it, and need to complete it soon, and hopefully they can flesh it out more this go round.

 

[tuxfool]

Again, how is that different than, say, Isaac Clarke in Dead Space? The man gets pulverized left and right and, after the cutscene, continues on like normal. How about Batman? In the newest game, he gets shot right in the belly and, the very next scene, you have to fight 50 dudes in hand-to-hand combat. Why is it such a problem for Lara, but not for them?

I believe I have already clarified why I feel differently about Batman, but I agree it is silly. The difference between Isaac Clarke is that I don't think that they're tying his character, which is a fulcrum of the story, to the amount of abuse he gets. I don't feel that the game creators are imposing on me that I should feel something for the character because he gets beaten around.

I also think that that the zombie samurai in the later parts of the game are pretty ridiculous for the seemingly serious tone that they're taking with that game. This kind of thing worked just fine with Old Raider because Lara's personality wasn't such a focus.

 

[ghibli99]

I liked the original non-DE look the best, but after watching that video, I think this tops 'em all. Can't wait to play this!

 

[Arklite]

Maybe they'll settle on a design that actually carries over to the next game this time.

Doubt it, CD seems obsessed with tweaking Lara's model ever since their first trilogy, although those models were more similar than their efforts now. I'm liking the Rise face model though, hope it sticks around.

I believe I have already clarified why I feel differently about Batman, but I agree it is silly. The difference between Isaac Clarke is that I don't think that they're tying his character, which is a fulcrum of the story, to the amount of abuse he gets. I don't feel that the game creators are imposing on me that I should feel something for the character because he gets beaten around.

I also think that that the zombie samurai in the later parts of the game are pretty ridiculous for the seemingly serious tone that they're taking with that game. This kind of thing worked just fine with Old Raider because Lara's personality wasn't such a focus.

Dead Space 2's story does actually have a focus on Isaac's tortured mind, and the game certainly makes him go through some shit, both mentally and physically, including the infamous eye scene . Very good game that really fleshed out Isaac after his first mute appearance.

Lara's story deals a lot with fighting the environment as much as enemies, so the environment batters her constantly and the developers have said they really consider her surroundings to be a big antagonist. CD does need to properly balance the constant disasters better, but her troubles are very much in tone with the game's theme. On supernatural, I personally liked the samurai, but that's just me.

 

[Mman235]

What the fuck would you do if you were surrounded by lunatic murderers and rapists? Tell me.

Make a game where Lara isn't "surrounded by lunatic murderers and rapists"

Problem solved.

 

[Synth]

The transition from "help me " Lara to "Mass murderer with no remorse" Lara was so abrupt it ends up being really funny to me.

She feels horrible she kills a deer, not even 30 minutes later are you killing dudes left and right on some predator shit.

The deer was innocent.

I felt worse about killing the deer than I did any of the enemies. They had that shit coming.

 

[fantomena]

*heavy breathing*

must...avoid....posting

Do you know something? I read your post like:

*heavy breathing*

Must avoid posting the release date info.