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PlayStation PC games revenue so far; to Have 50 / 50 % Investment on new & existing IP By 2025; +20 games for VR2 launch + more

I would argue that the exact opposite would happen. Sony are investing this much in gaas titles because there is no guarantee any of the projects stick the landing...but if only one of them...or maybe a couple succeed in becoming money printing machines, I think that that would make them concentrate on updating and nurturing said titles, while using part of the proceeds to pay for the expensive SP products; New gaas IPs would be introduced sparingly from that point onward. If Sony succeeds in their gaas endeavours, we will be seeing more big budgeted SP franchises, not less.
Why would that be the case? If like you said, and say one of their GaaS projects ends up succeeding. At that point, Sony would have to throw considerable resources at making MTX related material. Aside from that, Sony would look at what made that specific title successful vs their other attempts, and pour money into repeating that process.

If they make a successful multiplayer GaaS title that has the ability to print money. They're going to try and repeat that process in order to print even more. Them taking those proceeds and throwing them at a singleplayer game with far lower potential wouldn't make sense.

Just like Epic abandoned Fortnites singleplayer mode, and just like we haven't seen a new GTA release in over a generation... If they strike gold, Sony would pivot towards creating more multiplayer at the singleplayer's expense.
 

kingfey

Banned
Totally fair to compare sales of a brand new game with a massive marketing push, bundled with consoles and discounted to death vs an SKU that is 60 USD, marketed with a ps blog post and ported 3 to 4 years after it's original release.

Folks... you should be on the acceptance phase by now. The denial one should have ended when GOW was announced.
These guys don't own any shit from Sony. Sony is putting their products, where they think they can make money.

They have a project of $300m from pc. That means more games to PC.

Anyone objecting to these stuff would need to be an investor. Just because you are a fan of what they make, doesn't give you the rights to dictate their business.

I wish folks here understand that. Sony and MS are companies, which want to make more money. We don't matter to them, aside of our pockets.
 
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yurinka

Member
They expect 300 million by next march from what exactly? 2 old ports?
Live Service Games.
End of an era! Ps going full Microsoft model by 2025.
Those million in estimates were never gonna be right.
Of course. They are factoring everything pC related...but the major drive will be the 2 live service games.

Since the related thread got closed I'll post it here:

I calculated the exact amount of PS Studio releases per platform for the current FY2022 and FY2025 and also made the alternate graph with Photoshop:

FY2022 vs FY2025 releases
  • PS5 only: 4 vs 15 releases
  • PS4+PS5: 4 vs 0 releases
  • PC port: 2 vs 7 releases
  • Mobile: 1 vs 5 releases
  • PS5+PC: 0 vs 0 releases

It's helpful to know the amount of unannounced titles for each group to be released during the current fiscal year, or to know where PS Studios will focus their grow.

P.S.: Please notice "investment" graphs very likely don't talk about games released that year but instead games being developed or in post-launch support during that year.



In the case of this thread, we can see that in addition to Uncharted Thieves Collection they plan to release another PC port this fiscal year (I assume TLOU1+2 DC). GoW included a single game instead of 2 and that could help the new releases to sell better. And in the previous fiscal GoW year was only included -full priced btw- during only the last two months and a half of the year, so it's fair to think it will sell more this year than in the previous one specially if well discounted. And well, DG and Horizon I assume will sell some copies more.

With the help of Nixxes they'll increase the PC ports output from 2 per year to 7 per year, while PS Studios (this shouldn't include Bungie since they didn't close the acquisition) will make a massive effort to release 14 new games in FY2025 instead of the 8 planned for the current FY. I assume it means that in addition to continue growing their 1st party internal studios they will buy soon some studio more for PS Studios or will also increase the amount of 2nd party studios they work with (something likely since now they'll be making also PSVR2 games).

In the graphs we can also see that in the next 3 years:
  • Even if the amount of PC ports and mobile release will grow more, the amount of console releases will also grow
  • Even if will increase more their investment on GaaS, they will also increase investment in traditional/non-GaaS games
  • Even if will increase more their investment on new IPs, they will also increase investment in sequels
  • In line with what Hermen and Jimbo previously said several times, even if Bungie will release their new games day one on PC, PS Studios don't seem to plan PC day one releases. At least not before April 2026
I also think most if not ALL of those same games will be on PS+ in 2023 also. So they'll be making money on those games in three ways. And I expect the timing release will be different for all three launches.

1. Day One direct purchases and beyond
2. By more people buying PS+ Plus and Premium service to play these games for "free"
3. Selling them on PC
Yes, I think it's their plan:
1- PS only: release window sales
2- PS only: discounts months after release
3- PS only: included in PS+ a year or two after release
4- PC port: released at full price two or three years after PS release
5- PC port: discounts months after PC release
 
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Reads like half the fanboys in this very topic that still think that even though Sony is double tripling down every couple months with more news of PC focus.
Exactly lol. I must have upset one of the warriors so much from the past 2 threads, that he/she spammed like 50+ triggered emojis. I laughed so hard while trying to eat my lunch. I even sent some back, only to get another 30 in a matter of seconds. 😂 Those kinds people are going to be crying so hard the next few months, when more and more great news for gamers comes from Sony in regards to PC.



Hopefully they more than triple down, and start to pump the games out, day and date, so much of the console wars can finally cease to end. Win win for all!
 
Exactly lol. I must have upset one of the warriors so much from the past 2 threads, that he/she spammed like 50+ triggered emojis. I laughed so hard while trying to eat my lunch. I even sent some back, only to get another 30 in a matter of seconds. 😂 Those kinds people are going to be crying so hard the next few months, when more and more great news for gamers comes from Sony in regards to PC.



Hopefully they more than triple down, and start to pump the games out, day and date, so much of the console wars can finally cease to end. Win win for all!
jurassic park dinosaur GIF
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Exactly lol. I must have upset one of the warriors so much from the past 2 threads, that he/she spammed like 50+ triggered emojis. I laughed so hard while trying to eat my lunch. I even sent some back, only to get another 30 in a matter of seconds. 😂 Those kinds people are going to be crying so hard the next few months, when more and more great news for gamers comes from Sony in regards to PC.



Hopefully they more than triple down, and start to pump the games out, day and date, so much of the console wars can finally cease to end. Win win for all!
One thing that will also skew the PS5 only vs other platform release numbers is PSVR2.

If PSVR2 is not compatible with PC so it's exclusive to PS5, then those titles will be in the PS5 only bar charts. That means the traditional $70 kinds of games will lean more to the PC box.
 
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mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Exactly lol. I must have upset one of the warriors so much from the past 2 threads, that he/she spammed like 50+ triggered emojis. I laughed so hard while trying to eat my lunch. I even sent some back, only to get another 30 in a matter of seconds. 😂 Those kinds people are going to be crying so hard the next few months, when more and more great news for gamers comes from Sony in regards to PC.



Hopefully they more than triple down, and start to pump the games out, day and date, so much of the console wars can finally cease to end. Win win for all!

I find it interesting that you "WANT" the bolded so much. Hmmmm....
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Sony recognized PC which is why I respect them but I’m still opposed to pc gaming for three different reasons the spectrum of store fronts and how inadequate that is, people conflicted over damn computer parts, I don’t appreciate the hacker perspective it speaks to a lack of respect to traditional gaming, that said as a console gamer.
 

dvdvideo

Member
Since the related thread got closed I'll post it here:

I calculated the exact amount of PS Studio releases per platform for the current FY2022 and FY2025 and also made the alternate graph with Photoshop:

FY2022 vs FY2025 releases
  • PS5 only: 4 vs 15 releases
  • PS4+PS5: 4 vs 0 releases
  • PC port: 2 vs 7 releases
  • Mobile: 1 vs 5 releases
  • PS5+PC: 0 vs 0 releases

It's helpful to know the amount of unannounced titles for each group to be released during the current fiscal year, or to know where PS Studios will focus their grow.

P.S.: Please notice "investment" graphs very likely don't talk about games released that year but instead games being developed or in post-launch support during that year.



In the case of this thread, we can see that in addition to Uncharted Thieves Collection they plan to release another PC port this fiscal year (I assume TLOU1+2 DC). GoW included a single game instead of 2 and that could help the new releases to sell better. And in the previous fiscal GoW year was only included -full priced btw- during only the last two months and a half of the year, so it's fair to think it will sell more this year than in the previous one specially if well discounted. And well, DG and Horizon I assume will sell some copies more.

With the help of Nixxes they'll increase the PC ports output from 2 per year to 7 per year, while PS Studios (this shouldn't include Bungie since they didn't close the acquisition) will make a massive effort to release 14 new games in FY2025 instead of the 8 planned for the current FY. I assume it means that in addition to continue growing their 1st party internal studios they will buy soon some studio more for PS Studios or will also increase the amount of 2nd party studios they work with (something likely since now they'll be making also PSVR2 games).

In the graphs we can also see that in the next 3 years:
  • Even if the amount of PC ports and mobile release will grow more, the amount of console releases will also grow
  • Even if will increase more their investment on GaaS, they will also increase investment in traditional/non-GaaS games
  • Even if will increase more their investment on new IPs, they will also increase investment in sequels
  • In line with what Hermen and Jimbo previously said several times, even if Bungie will release their new games day one on PC, PS Studios don't seem to plan PC day one releases. At least not before April 2026

Yes, I think it's their plan:
1- PS only: release window sales
2- PS only: discounts months after release
3- PS only: included in PS+ a year or two after release
4- PC port: released at full price two or three years after PS release
5- PC port: discounts months after PC release

While this may be the case, it discounts these reasons for day and date:

1: Potential full price sales if day and date - increased revenue if released on time
2: Massive advertising budgets already reaching gamers at time of console launch - potentially larger sales volume when demand is at it's highest (reduced advertising costs and increased sales)
3. Reduced overall development costs - no reason to "port" via a special second team, both versions are created simultaneously by the developer (reduced costs and time)

These all very compelling reasons for Sony to consider day and date PC release.
The only real downside is they don't control the playground yet, but they are working on their own launcher. That and potential console sales lost but I'm not sure they care since PC is an open environment.
 
I find it interesting that you "WANT" the bolded so much. Hmmmm....
Why is that interesting? I also want Nintendo games on PC... Oh wait, I already can play them. Plus, isn't it just better when games aren't being held hostage by gatekeepers/warriors/fanboys?

It was great when conversations were about the fighting x, y, z boss in GoW, between the PC and PS guys. We could actually have a conversation that didn't resort to, "You can't play this game on your 5k PC, just buy a ps5, wah wah". That shit gets no where in productive conversations. Kinda like you trying to pick at my post, as if there's some underlying message/value 😂😆.
 

yurinka

Member
While this may be the case, it discounts these reasons for day and date:

1: Potential full price sales if day and date - increased revenue if released on time
2: Massive advertising budgets already reaching gamers at time of console launch - potentially larger sales volume when demand is at it's highest (reduced advertising costs and increased sales)
3. Reduced overall development costs - no reason to "port" via a special second team, both versions are created simultaneously by the developer (reduced costs and time)

These all very compelling reasons for Sony to consider day and date PC release.
The only real downside is they don't control the playground yet, but they are working on their own launcher. That and potential console sales lost but I'm not sure they care since PC is an open environment.
  1. Even if they release the game on PC 4 years later, they sell the games on PC at full price. They have to pay on PC a 30% cut, so they prefer to have these sales on their own console, where they also generate extra indirect revenue because players there also buy hardware accessories, PS+ and other games. Plus PS is the biggest platform for AAA games. PC is an extra for them once they milked the game all they could in PS
  2. Sony ports to PC games that already sold over 20M or at least over 10M, and when ported to PC they appear in all gaming media and so on. Don't need a big extra marketing campaign for the port. And again, Sony prefers to have sales on their platform, not in PC. So their marketing must be focused to sell their console
  3. It's cheaper to develop AAA games for a single device and its quality is better if not designed to run in low end devices. And the cost of the post is a joke, they mentioned only need a few guys to do it and it generates dozens of millions, generating a crazy ROI. It's better for them to have their key devs making console only games and experts to make the ports. To do it years later also makes sure more lower end PCs can run it properly without needing to scale it down too much

PC is an open environment but Steam and the other stores not. Before considering day one PC releases Sony should implement their own store and PC client etc to skip the '30%' Valve cut. Plus to grow the userbase of this store a lot.
 
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mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why is that interesting? I also want Nintendo games on PC... Oh wait, I already can play them. Plus, isn't it just better when games aren't being held hostage by gatekeepers/warriors/fanboys?

It was great when conversations were about the fighting x, y, z boss in GoW, between the PC and PS guys. We could actually have a conversation that didn't resort to, "You can't play this game on your 5k PC, just buy a ps5, wah wah". That shit gets no where in productive conversations. Kinda like you trying to pick at my post, as if there's some underlying message/value 😂😆.

No it isn't! Is it cool when a game is multi-platform? Yes. But there's greatness in a game being created exclusively for one platform. Be it Playstation, Xbox, Nintendo, or PC-only.
 

dvdvideo

Member
  1. Even if they release the game on PC 4 years later, they sell the games on PC at full price. They have to pay on PC a 30% cut, so they prefer to have these sales on their own console, where they also generate extra indirect revenue because players there also buy hardware accessories, PS+ and other games. Plus PS is the biggest platform for AAA games. PC is an extra for them once they milked the game all they could in PS
  2. Sony ports to PC games that already sold over 20M or at least over 10M, and when ported to PC they appear in all gaming media and so on. Don't need a big extra marketing campaign for the port. And again, Sony prefers to have sales on their platform, not in PC. So their marketing must be focused to sell their console
  3. It's cheaper to develop AAA games for a single device and its quality is better if not designed to run in low end devices. And the cost of the post is a joke, they mentioned only need a few guys to do it and it generates dozens of millions, generating a crazy ROI. It's better for them to have their key devs making console only games and experts to make the ports. To do it years later also makes sure more lower end PCs can run it properly without needing to scale it down too much

PC is an open environment but Steam and the other stores not. Before considering day one PC releases Sony should implement their own store and PC client etc to skip the '30%' Valve cut. Plus to grow the userbase of this store a lot.

1.) No, they could sell them for more. God of War wasn't $69. If Sony has day and date exclusives on their own platform, they can set the price and share nothing.
2) Why would you want to sell 10 or 20 million if you could sell 15-30 million? Makes no sense to limit sales. As to them preferring sales on their platform, that is changing.
3) What? No it's not.

Lastly, I did say they were working on their own launcher, that's the key to it all. No cut.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
2) Why would you want to sell 10 or 20 million if you could sell 15-30 million? Makes no sense to limit sales. As to them preferring sales on their platform, that is changing.
Because of that everlasting ecosystem narrative that if you release games on PC, all the console users will bail ship and get a good PC.
 
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dvdvideo

Member
Because of that everlasting ecosystem narrative that if you release games on PC, all the console users will bail ship and get a good PC.

I actually don't disagree with that, but I think greed and big executive bonus's will get in the way. Plus there is a huge group of people/games that will never go PC.
On the flip side, if this were to actually happen in mass, it would be become war of the games/launcher instead of war of the console.
 

yurinka

Member
1.) No, they could sell them for more. God of War wasn't $69. If Sony has day and date exclusives on their own platform, they can set the price and share nothing.
It has been priced $50 with no discount since launch. Not a cheap price for a 4 years old game port.

2) Why would you want to sell 10 or 20 million if you could sell 15-30 million? Makes no sense to limit sales. As to them preferring sales on their platform, that is changing.
Because the PC ports give them $80M in a year and the console ~$25B. The revenue from 1st party games is a tiny portion of the money they make. They are basically the USP to enter their ecosystem or remain there: buy a console, pay plus and buy accesories and many games. 1st party games are only ~20% of the money made by the games for their console. Most of the money they make comes fromt 3rd party games.

Meaning, an exclusive game for their console has way more value for them than the money paid. It isn't only the 30%.

3) What? No it's not.
It is, I've been working as gamedev for 17 years. To develop for more platforms means more work to d and more costs not only directly related to game development (licenses, age rating, testing, certification, retail versions, additional PR contacts, etc).

Lastly, I did say they were working on their own launcher, that's the key to it all. No cut.
Yes, they are working on it. Pretty likely they'll need some years to release it, then more years to grow its catalog with 1st and 3rd games, and then raise userbase to the point (common issue from other PC stores) people accepts their store and launcher and to leave Steam. We're still far from see this implemented.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I actually don't disagree with that, but I think greed and big executive bonus's will get in the way. Plus there is a huge group of people/games that will never go PC.
On the flip side, if this were to actually happen in mass, it would be become war of the games/launcher instead of war of the console.
It wont happen. Not even close.

If it did, you'd have zero Xbox console sales as all their games are day one launch, and day one GP on console and PC (aside from occasional games like Flight Sim taking longer to come out on console).

Ecosystem warriors just defend the corporate strategy. But when it crumbles (like now) they come up with revised reasons asap.

If this was 2 years ago before Horizon ZD came out (zero PC ports), you get everyone saying its bad to do PC ports. Then games are coming out and Sony is promoting PC focus with lots more games and Nixxes and PS for PC branding and powerpoint slides on multiplat releases. Now the revised reason is "it'll tease people to buy a PS system for the sequel" or something similar.

Well make up your mind. Two years ago it was a dead stop no go.

When Sony PC ports get rolling, suddenly a launcher is possible for more games and sales. That would mean a PC gamer being even more engrained sticking to PC and those gamers totally not bothering to consider buying a PS5 or PS6. It's not like the PC launcher is going to have all 1000+ games on it like PSN for mass third party cuts, and wont have extra revenue like sub plans as PC online is free, and a PC gamer definitely will have less chance of buying more PS controllers for the family to play.
 

dvdvideo

Member
It has been priced $50 with no discount since launch. Not a cheap price for a 4 years old game port.
Not cheap but nonetheless a lower price.

Because the PC ports give them $80M in a year and the console ~$25B. The revenue from 1st party games is a tiny portion of the money they make. They are basically the USP to enter their ecosystem or remain there: buy a console, pay plus and buy accesories and many games. 1st party games are only ~20% of the money made by the games for their console. Most of the money they make comes fromt 3rd party games.

I don't have time to look it up but I'm pretty sure your math is way off. First party software sales are the second most profitable thing they have, behind network (PS plus etc)

Meaning, an exclusive game for their console has way more value for them than the money paid. It isn't only the 30%.
I don't disagree with this in general, but even releasing pc games later technically erodes this, I've already seen many people here say they would just wait.

It is, I've been working as gamedev for 17 years. To develop for more platforms means more work to d and more costs not only directly related to game development (licenses, age rating, testing, certification, retail versions, additional PR contacts, etc).
Compare apples to apples, we aren't comparing the cost of one game vs two, we are comparing two version of the same game being developed either simultaneously or after the fact. It's always going to be far cheaper to develop both versions at the same time. Always.

Yes, they are working on it. Pretty likely they'll need some years to release it, then more years to grow its catalog with 1st and 3rd games, and then raise userbase to the point (common issue from other PC stores) people accepts their store and launcher and to leave Steam. We're still far from see this implemented.
It's not going to take that long, and they really need some day and date stuff to drive it's success.
 

dvdvideo

Member
It wont happen. Not even close.

If it did, you'd have zero Xbox console sales as all their games are day one launch, and day one GP on console and PC (aside from occasional games like Flight Sim taking longer to come out on console).

No, this isn't even close to true. There is a massive (probably over 75%) group of console buyers who flat out would never even consider a PC for gaming.

Ecosystem warriors just defend the corporate strategy. But when it crumbles (like now) they come up with revised reasons asap.
Not sure what you mean.

If this was 2 years ago before Horizon ZD came out (zero PC ports), you get everyone saying its bad to do PC ports. Then games are coming out and Sony is promoting PC focus with lots more games and Nixxes and PS for PC branding and powerpoint slides on multiplat releases. Now the revised reason is "it'll tease people to buy a PS system for the sequel" or something similar.

Well make up your mind. Two years ago it was a dead stop no go.

When Sony PC ports get rolling, suddenly a launcher is possible for more games and sales. That would mean a PC gamer being even more engrained sticking to PC and those gamers totally not bothering to consider buying a PS5 or PS6. It's not like the PC launcher is going to have all 1000+ games on it like PSN for mass third party cuts, and wont have extra revenue like sub plans as PC online is free, and a PC gamer definitely will have less chance of buying more PS controllers for the family to play.

While there is some crossover, they are two separate markets, it's the reason Sony wants some of it.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
No, this isn't even close to true. There is a massive (probably over 75%) group of console buyers who flat out would never even consider a PC for gaming.


Not sure what you mean.



While there is some crossover, they are two separate markets, it's the reason Sony wants some of it.
That's exactly the point I'm making.

Most gamers wont dump their console for a PC rig to play some console games. The PC market is so big, the opportunity for sales will outstrip which ever console gamers jump platforms permanently.

And many gamers who buy PC version may double dip. You get some gamers on this bard even saying they might do that. So add that to the mix, and there's extra sales from double dippers who are still focused on PS consoles.

Sony knows this so thats why there is so much focus on PC now. If it was that big of a risk of sales, they'd solely do PS gaming like before.
 

Hezekiah

Banned
You should stop cocaine, it's leading you astray...
Gaas titles are coming to PC, day one, imo; SP projects are to get individual ports down the line, once the PS5 sales well gets dry. Minimal costs for Sony, good revenues, great ROI. Easy to understand for any Tom, Jin or Mohamed...Not for you though...

Looks like a major push towards Live service games releasing Day 1 on Console and PC.

Not sure where people are getting the Single Player Day 1 releases coming to PC information from.
Yeah I don't know why so many are losing their shit over this.

Sony wants as large an audience as possible from launch for their live service games, so many will be on PC day one, and have the option for crossplay.

Single-player ports will be older titles like TLOU1 remake and Spiderman. Any newer titles will be released on PC once Playstation sales have been exhausted a couple of years later. That's why it's half of their first-party line-up to be ported over.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Yeah I don't know why so many are losing their shit over this.

Sony wants as large an audience as possible from launch for their live service games, so many will be on PC day one, and have the option for crossplay.

Single-player ports will be older titles like TLOU1 remake and Spiderman. Any newer titles will be released on PC once Playstation sales have been exhausted a couple of years later. That's why it's half of their first-party line-up to be ported over.
It's a very obvious strategy Sony is doing expanding their gamer base and revenue.

But the pushback from gamers are purists who are praying as many big name games stay on PS consoles. Where PC only gets ancient ports.

The fear is the PC version is better and PS gamers will sell their system and go PC loading up on RTX 3000 gpu rigs. Either way if a gamer is playing a first party game on a console or their Dell Dude PC who cares.

Someone can be happy more gamers play. Some gamers can be indifferent not caring if a random PC gamer plays the same game.

But you'll get some gamers who care a lot because playing the game on PC is like betrayal of plastic box brand. Playing it on a PC plastic box is meh. Playing it on a console plastic box is better.
 
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Hezekiah

Banned
It's a very obvious strategy Sony is doing expanding their gamer base and revenue.

But the pushback from gamers are purists who are praying as many big name games stay on PS consoles. Where PC only gets ancient ports.

The fear is the PC version is better and PS gamers will sell their system and go PC loading up on RTX 3000 gpu rigs. Either way if a gamer is playing a first party game on a console or their Dell Dude PC who cares.

Someone can be happy more gamers play. Some gamers can be indifferent not caring if a random PC gamer plays the same game.

But you'll get some gamers who care a lot because playing the game on PC is like betrayal of plastic box brand. Playing it on a PC plastic box is meh. Playing it on a console plastic box is better.
Yeah that won't happen because some console gamers just won't play on PC, it's more expensive (even I have baulked at buying a 3080 and am biding my time before I upgrade), and many aren't going to be willing to wait for a delayed launch/wondering whether it's a game Sony is going to port.

For Sony, even though they have negotiated a deal with Steam it's obviously more lucrative for people to buy their games on Playstation, and then you have the PS Plus factor to consider aswell. That's why you won't have platform parity.

It is funny to see PCMR guys port begging though - especially when they've feigned disinterest in Sony games in previously, and/or constantly boasted about the number and array of games on PC 😄.
 
No it isn't! Is it cool when a game is multi-platform? Yes. But there's greatness in a game being created exclusively for one platform. Be it Playstation, Xbox, Nintendo, or PC-only.
Personally, I would love all games to be on all platforms. Halo and GoW on switch, Mario Kart on PlayStation and Xbox, etc. Just like phones, I kinda feel like buying and owning the hardware should grant you access to do whatever you want. That's why I'm more android than iPhone. Why I like being able to repair your own goods (right to repair). I would love if you had the choice of hardware, and can selectively choose whatever software you want.

Playing BOTW in 4k ultrawide, 60fps, removal of the fog, etc, was such an amazing experience. This should be available to everyone. If you don't have the best hardware for instance (Nintendo switch), why not turn down the graphics and resolution to play some Overwatch with your buddies for instance? Gears of war, etc? Would that not change gaming but a longshot? Publishers and devs would make even more money. It's not like Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft would die out, as everyone has preferences on performance, portability, controller, UX, etc.

This is simply my take on it, and I'd love to see these companies open up games for everyone, regardless of the hardware.
 
No it isn't! Is it cool when a game is multi-platform? Yes. But there's greatness in a game being created exclusively for one platform. Be it Playstation, Xbox, Nintendo, or PC-only.
Exclusives made sense when there were tangible differences between PS Vs XBOX Vs PC architectures. But now, both the PS5 and XSX have very PC like architecture, with upper-mid level CPU/GPUs, one having faster storage and the other, the other having a slightly more faster GPU. Broadly speaking, any game that could be done on one console can be done on the other, and on PC. Tech wise it's not limited. So then, exclusives really are akin to an artificial barrier to drive sales to a certain platform. Is that "greatness" in your view? It's certainly not in mine.
 

Shmunter

Member
Exclusives made sense when there were tangible differences between PS Vs XBOX Vs PC architectures. But now, both the PS5 and XSX have very PC like architecture, with upper-mid level CPU/GPUs, one having faster storage and the other, the other having a slightly more faster GPU. Broadly speaking, any game that could be done on one console can be done on the other, and on PC. Tech wise it's not limited. So then, exclusives really are akin to an artificial barrier to drive sales to a certain platform. Is that "greatness" in your view? It's certainly not in mine.
Seems to be even more important to have content as a differentiating factor if everything else is the same.
 
Seems to be even more important to have content as a differentiating factor if everything else is the same.
For a platform holder/shareholder who are worried about growth and margins? Sure. But I'm fully talking from the view of a consumer, which I assume is what most people are in these forums. If technologically the consoles are PCs are broadly the same, what are the advantages we as consumers have when certain content is artificially gated?

Edit: adding more to the first point, for a platform holder/shareholder having exclusively is one path to achieve growth and profitability targets. Going more multiplatform is also a valid strategy. They just follow the best path bases on what they perceive to be be their strengths and the current market circumstances. Judging by what Sony is doing now, it seems even business wise exclusives don't make as much sense to them as before
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
For a platform holder/shareholder who are worried about growth and margins? Sure. But I'm fully talking from the view of a consumer, which I assume is what most people are in these forums. If technologically the consoles are PCs are broadly the same, what are the advantages we as consumers have when certain content is artificially gated?
Yes and no.

In terms of consumer friendliness, for probably everything in life except console gaming platforms everyone would surely want content to be playable on any competing device. I have never heard one person complain other people's DVD and BR players can play the same disc they can on day one of a disc launch. In fact, they want it to be multi-branded so that the media can be played on any device. Makes no difference if it's Samsung or an RCA. Have everything work. Never seen one PC user pray the software they are using only works on their Dell or Nvidia based specs vs. a Lenovo user with an AMD computer. Nobody cares.

When it comes to music or movie content, they dont care one bit someone else plays it on another branded box at the same time as them. Lots of movies are on different sub services. Never seen one person hope that movie they like only comes out for the sub plan they got, where if it's on 3 different sub services and can be bought on disc and digital too they go ape shit it's not exclusive.

But for gaming, you'll get brand worshippers. They know deep down it's pretty silly to wall off games to only their plastic box. But then again some of them must be head office employees because they care a lot about corporate strategy and nickels and dimes like they are all accountants on the payroll. And that will lead to preventing other people from (gasp) playing the same video game they are.
 
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But for gaming, you'll get brand worshippers. They know deep down it's pretty silly to wall off games to only their plastic box. But then again some of them must be head office employees because they care a lot about corporate strategy and nickels and dimes like they are all accountants on the payroll. And that will lead to preventing other people from (gasp) playing the same video game they are.
Haha yes certainly a lot of those are present in enthusiast forums I guess. At the same time I do not think "brand worshippers" represent the average consumer. The average consumer is more rational, looking for quality, value and convenience for them, and not for any corporation.

At least, I hope that's the case.
 

Shmunter

Member
For a platform holder/shareholder who are worried about growth and margins? Sure. But I'm fully talking from the view of a consumer, which I assume is what most people are in these forums. If technologically the consoles are PCs are broadly the same, what are the advantages we as consumers have when certain content is artificially gated?

Edit: adding more to the first point, for a platform holder/shareholder having exclusively is one path to achieve growth and profitability targets. Going more multiplatform is also a valid strategy. They just follow the best path bases on what they perceive to be be their strengths and the current market circumstances. Judging by what Sony is doing now, it seems even business wise exclusives don't make as much sense to them as before
Sure, it would be nice to get everything in one place. All the streaming services are infuriating, it was a better landscape with just netflix.

But it’s a utopian position to expect such uniformity being completely detached from the free market. What need would there be for McDonald’s if the menu was available at subways, or vice versa. Conversely such a landscape inherently ends in blandness.

While there is some leeway and overlap, begging for ports and scraps will forever be the norm.
 
Sure, it would be nice to get everything in one place. All the streaming services are infuriating, it was a better landscape with just netflix.

But it’s a utopian position to expect such uniformity being completely detached from the free market. What need would there be for McDonald’s if the menu was available at subways, or vice versa. Conversely such a landscape inherently ends in blandness.

While there is some leeway and overlap, begging for ports and scraps will forever be the norm.
Ah but let me put your burger example in a different way. See I can today go to MacDonalds and enjoy a nice big Mac, and tomorrow can go to BK and have a whopper. I'm not restricted whatsoever. There is no upfront membership fee I have to pay to entitle me to have a big Mac or a whopper. To me, it's exactly how the gaming business should be. Your mcd or bk (game studios) putting out different burgers (games) which I (the consumer) can enjoy at will and without restriction.
 
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Shmunter

Member
Ah but let me put your burger example in a different way. See I can today go to MacDonalds and enjoy a nice big Mac, and tomorrow can go to BK and have a whopper. I'm not restricted whatsoever. There is no upfront membership fee I have to pay to entitle me to have a big Mac or a whopper. To me, it's exactly how the gaming business should be. Your mcd or bk (game studios) putting out different burgers (games) which I (the consumer) can enjoy at will and without restriction.
Burger = burger
Game = Game?
 

Dream-Knife

Member
The only real downside is they don't control the playground yet, but they are working on their own launcher.
Source? All I've seen is account integration.
Before considering day one PC releases Sony should implement their own store and PC client etc to skip the '30%' Valve cut. Plus to grow the userbase of this store a lot.
Same cut Sony makes. Also if the games sell over so much they have a 20% cut.

Yes, they are working on it. Pretty likely they'll need some years to release it, then more years to grow its catalog with 1st and 3rd games, and then raise userbase to the point (common issue from other PC stores) people accepts their store and launcher and to leave Steam. We're still far from see this implemented.
While this forum is skewed as most PC gamers on here are really just console gamers with better machines, the PC crowd isn't going to bite on another launcher.
I reaaally hope so because that would make usage of 3rd party applications much easier. It's perfect for PC compatibility with it's specs, too.
If you have the choice (which you do on PC), why would you go for a wired headset in 2022?
 

YukiOnna

Member
If you have the choice (which you do on PC), why would you go for a wired headset in 2022?
Mainly because Quest 2 is the only real option in that regard and I'm not terribly concerned about that. PSVR2 is just the better choice if it were PC compatible. They're beating Meta on the eye tracking and foveated rendering support, plus a highly likely competitive price would make it a great option. It would be convenient to be able to use on console and PC (if supported,) as well.

At least until Valve's next headset finally releases.
 

reksveks

Member
Mainly because Quest 2 is the only real option in that regard and I'm not terribly concerned about that. PSVR2 is just the better choice if it were PC compatible. They're beating Meta on the eye tracking and foveated rendering support, plus a highly likely competitive price would make it a great option. It would be convenient to be able to use on console and PC (if supported,) as well.

At least until Valve's next headset finally releases.
Remember that Cambria is out this year as well and then Quest 3 is next year. If I was a PC VR gamer, I would just wait.
 

YukiOnna

Member
Remember that Cambria is out this year as well and then Quest 3 is next year. If I was a PC VR gamer, I would just wait.
I don't think Cambria and Quest 3 will come close to PSVR2, Valve's or if you want to include Apple's rumored $3000 device (although that's not VR) and the price point will make the difference, but I do agree you have a lot of choice as a PC VR Enthusiast. Personally, I'd just wait for Valve's 2nd Gen device if you have the money, but having a dedicated Console/PC supported headset would be awesome.
 

reksveks

Member
I don't think Cambria and Quest 3 will come close to PSVR2, Valve's or if you want to include Apple's rumored $3000 device (although that's not VR) and the price point will make the difference, but I do agree you have a lot of choice as a PC VR Enthusiast. Personally, I'd just wait for Valve's 2nd Gen device if you have the money, but having a dedicated Console/PC supported headset would be awesome.
Quest 3 will generally beat the PSVR2 except for the resolution if the leaks are right. I even think Cambria will have eye tracking but its been a while since I have seen the leaks. You are swapping pancake lens for oled between the two.

https://www.laptopmag.com/news/meta...ubbed-quest-2-pro-heres-what-it-may-look-like

Apparently Cambria will be called Quest 2 Pro. The price point might make it not really a competitor cause its going to be 3-400 usd more than the PSVR2.
 

yurinka

Member
Same cut Sony makes. Also if the games sell over so much they have a 20% cut.
Yes, but the good thing of having your own platform/store is that you don't pay that cut to anyone. So as of now, when publishing on PS Sony doesn't pay this cut, but they have to pay it if publishing the game on Steam.

If they'd have their own store in PC they wouldn't have to pay that cut, so the $300M projected for the current FY from PC ports would be almost $400M instead. Sony said they'll increase the amount of PC ports released per year, being 2 in the current FY and 7 in FY2025.

While this forum is skewed as most PC gamers on here are really just console gamers with better machines, the PC crowd isn't going to bite on another launcher.
PC crowd had no issue with another launcher for Fortnite, another one for Riot games, another one for Blizzard games, another one for Xbox games... I think it will depend on the games. If Sony moves all their PC games to be exclusive for their launcher and stores players will follow.

I think that to have all these launchers suck, and that they should implement a way to add to your favorite launcher any game from the other ones, and that all of them (plus console and mobile) should use some universal communication system for text and voice chats.

That would make everyone happy: each company would have their store and launcher, you would be able to use your favorite one and you would be able to chat and play with any friend from any launcher or platform.

I assume the communication part of all of this will be achieved with Discord and this is why Sony is investing so hard on them and seems they will further integrate it into PSN, which now covers console and their mobile app but I assume in a few years will arrive to PC. But even outside Sony's PC and mobile app any player from any launcher or platform can use Discord on mobile or PC. In fact, I don't remember the numbers but they already have tons of millions of players using it.

If you have the choice (which you do on PC), why would you go for a wired headset in 2022?
I love arcade games, specifically fighting games and emulators. I have a wired arcade stick connected to my PC right now (for some emulator thing I'm building), which is multiplatform and I connect it to PS and Switch to play fighting games and arcade games there.
 

yurinka

Member
I don't have time to look it up but I'm pretty sure your math is way off. First party software sales are the second most profitable thing they have, behind network (PS plus etc)
I double checked the numbers:

On PS they sold this FY 43.9M 1st party games, which are 14.47% of the total 303.2M game sold for their consoles this FY. Please notice it doesn't include add-ons (microtransactions, DLC, season passes, where 3rd party makes a better job than them), these are games sold.

So this is a 14.47% of Physical Software+Digital Sofware, which added are 699,789M Yen, a 14.47% of it is 101255.13M Yen (you can compare it below vs their other segments), which is $796.44M (+ 1st party add-on content) made by 1st party games on PS.

On PC they made an additional $80M, a 10% of what they did on PS. What they did with 1st party this FY on console+PC not counting add-ons is $866.44M, which is a 4.02% of what their gaming division made in revenue this FY: 2739.8B Yen ($21.55B). This is not counting mobile gaming, which they have under Sony Music and it's like another Billion dollars or so.




I don't disagree with this in general, but even releasing pc games later technically erodes this, I've already seen many people here say they would just wait.
Most PC gamers (or at least a bigger percentage than in console) wait for good discounts for games that release day one on PC, so I assume to wait isn't an issue for them.

For Sony, 1st party PS+PC sales provide 4% of their revenue, which is a small portion of their business. So for them is better to keep them at least some years exclusive for their console to pump all the other related business that players pay for when they got the console to play these 1st party games there: hardware, accesories, services and more importantly: other 1st party and specially 3rd party games (who pay their 30% cut to Sony).

Compare apples to apples, we aren't comparing the cost of one game vs two, we are comparing two version of the same game being developed either simultaneously or after the fact. It's always going to be far cheaper to develop both versions at the same time. Always.
To have a huge team developing for a single platform and later a small team porting it to another platform once is completed is cheaper than to have a huge team developing the game for the two platforms at the same time.

First the amount of devkits, licenses and so on. Second, to design, implement and test everything to run optimally everywhere. A lot of extra time and money would go into this and the games would be worse because they would have to make sure the game is complete and runs well in the least common denominator, which would be low end PCs with HDD.

Consider that game development is a 'chaos' full of iterations, where tons of things get experimented, tested, iterated, changed, tweaked, optimized, fixed, added or removed. It isn't the same to verify it runs well every iteration of every one of these things in a single device than in 5. Let's say a specific game mechanic or game stage gets tested and changed a ton of times during development and must be tested it works, looks and runs well on every device. So lowering the amount of devices lowers a lot the development.

When making the port of a game that already has been released, all these features, mechanics, stages and so on won't change. Meaning that the work and const involded on bringing the game to this machine would be way lower when making a port of an already completed game. And this is only counting the gamedev part.

It's not going to take that long, and they really need some day and date stuff to drive it's success.
They don't need day one games on PC to be way more successful than they are now right now.

Ports of old games is enough for them, as I explained above this FY PC ports made a 10% of revenue of what they did in console. And being ports, with a way higher ROI. If instead of $80M on PC they'd have made the $300M they expect for the current FY it would have been a 30% of what their 1st party games made in console.

And what is more important for them, late PC ports don't break their success on console, which having day one games on PC could. Because as in Xbox, it would mean many players who are both in PC and Xbox would stop buying the console and would keep in PC. For MS this is fine because their main business is related with Windows and cloud stuff, not the console or their 1st party games. But would be a big issue for Sony because their main business is the console, not PC or their 1st party games.
 

dvdvideo

Member
Source? All I've seen is account integration.

Same cut Sony makes. Also if the games sell over so much they have a 20% cut.


While this forum is skewed as most PC gamers on here are really just console gamers with better machines, the PC crowd isn't going to bite on another launcher.

If you have the choice (which you do on PC), why would you go for a wired headset in 2022?
They were advertising for programmers for it......
 

daninthemix

Member
That's cool. I'll continue to play every new PlayStation release on Steam with a really obnoxious, smug expression. Like, it's completely unreasonable and outrageous.
 
Quest 3 will generally beat the PSVR2 except for the resolution if the leaks are right. I even think Cambria will have eye tracking but its been a while since I have seen the leaks. You are swapping pancake lens for oled between the two.

https://www.laptopmag.com/news/meta...ubbed-quest-2-pro-heres-what-it-may-look-like

Apparently Cambria will be called Quest 2 Pro. The price point might make it not really a competitor cause its going to be 3-400 usd more than the PSVR2.
While new tech is always cool, I really hope they make the new Quests more comfortable. Quest 1 and 2 are both way too frontloaded.
 
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