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PlayStation PC games revenue so far; to Have 50 / 50 % Investment on new & existing IP By 2025; +20 games for VR2 launch + more

bitbydeath

Gold Member
This is more clear confirmation that it's day and date on pc coming very soon. Who was it again in denial saying this wasn't happening?
The opposite actually, it says it won’t change much from today which we’re possibly getting two PC ports this year, by 2025 it may increase to 3 or 4 max, according to the chart.
 

DukeNukem00

Banned
People really need to stop comparing every game to Elden Ring. It was a once-in-a-lifetime release. Yes it was a big success on PC but most games will never see those kind of sales. As an example, Deathloop and Ghostwire came out Day 1 on PC/PS5 and they both flopped on Steam.

The 3 weeks in a row at #1 for GOW was widely reported and we had a thread about it too. The estimates at the time were about 2 millions sold and we believed it because it was charting so high on Steam. It was actually selling 200k or less per week 🤡




Those million in estimates were never gonna be right. The game had a peak of 73K users on steam which multiplied by 8 gives us around 580K buyers. Its a rough guestimate, but faily accurate most of the time, including now. So around 500K sales in the first 2 weeks and another 500K in the folowing month and a half.

Sony is clearly happy with these when you consider the fact that mainly 4 people ported the game. 26 million dollars revenue in 2 months for the paycheck of four people. Thats almost stealing these money.

Several key things to take from this: PC gamers dont really give too many shits about playstation games. They'd not be PC players if they cared very much. Second, launching a game this late hurts your potential revenue. So they need to step up the release date. The audiences dont overlap. There are console gamers and there are pc gamers. Most PC gamers dont own a console, contrary to what console gamers like to say online. Its separate audiences, sony is not canibalizing sales from consoles. Of course there will be some people who overlap, but not in any significant number
 
They can just announce everything in September. Release the games between October and March.

Apex Legends was a total shadow drop. Huge hit.

You don’t really need to do months of marketing for a multiplayer game.
Yes, but that's not the norm. Apex Legends was a rare case. Also, it was F2P.

Considering that Sony is expecting a lot of PC revenue from these two games right out of the gate, I expect these games to be paid releases on PC, which would mean a pre-order period before the release.
 

SpokkX

Member
  • The Show 22 released in April 2022. If The Show 2023 releases in April 2023, that wouldn't be in FY 22.
  • They are also not counting Gran Turismo 7 as a live-service GaaS game.
  • Destruction All Stars won't count.
So that leaves us with:
  1. Naughty Dog's Multiplayer Game in the TLOU 2 universe.
  2. Something new like Helldivers 2 from Arrowhead.
Both could be / should be day one PC releases so that would also explain the increased $300 million forecasts from PC this FY.
But Gran Turismo 7 is their most live service game, the show is barely live service since it will be replaced next year. Gt7 will live as a service for years

I bet gt7 is one of then, especially with a possible pc release soon
 
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GreatnessRD

Member


 
At least traditional games are also receiving more investment. It is GaaS that is simply seeing more. Curious if Bungie acquisition $ makes up a decent part of that chart.
I would expect that their traditional games would for the time being. I imagine once their GaaS get released is when we might see that change. Assuming at least a few of them do well.

On one hand I'd really like to see them release a really good multiplayer game, which would almost certainly be of the live service variety. While their inexperience with such games certainly has it's drawbacks, it might result in a game that comes at multiplayer from a different angle or with fresh ideas due to that inexperience.

But man, could you imagine if Sony makes something that is crazy successful? Like fortnite or similar? As much as I'd be excited for that, it would simultaneously be the death toll for the vast amount of their singleplayer offerings.
 
But Gran Turismo 7 is their most live service game, the show is barely live service since it will be replaced next year. Gt7 will live as a service for years

I bet gt7 is one of then, especially with a possible pc release soon
But Sony isn't counting Gran Turismo 7 as a GaaS live-service game.

As you can notice in the following image, they only have The Show 22 in the live-service game catalog. In the FY 21 column, you can also see there is only one live-service game mentioned (Show 21).

Moreover, in the FY 22 bar of the chart, you see 3 live-service games: Show 22 has already released and Jim Ryan mentioned that two are unannounced titles that will be release in the next ~9 months. So Gran Turismo 7 isn't a part of this equation at all.

 

ACESHIGH

Member
Sony is clueless if they expect to achieve those numbers this FY by multiplayer gaas alone. Competition on PC for MP games is a LOT tougher than in console.

I'm sure they are factoring in revenue from upcoming single player games.
 
Sony is clueless if they expect to achieve those numbers this FY by multiplayer gaas alone. Competition on PC for MP games is a LOT tougher than in console.

I'm sure they are factoring in revenue from upcoming single player games.
Of course. They are factoring everything pC related...but the major drive will be the 2 live service games.
 

yurinka

Member
Wait wait wait....

Does that chart suggest Sony PlayStation will be putting more money into Live Service by 2025 than traditional games?

Am I reading that correctly?
Yes. It also says that it won't be at the expenses of traditional games: in FY2025 they will invest more in traditional games than now.

In the same way that even if they expect to grow their investment on PC and mobile games, they will also invest more in console games.

They plan to increase a lot the number of games released, and the half of the FY2025 will be new IPs.

Sony is clueless if they expect to achieve those numbers this FY by multiplayer gaas alone. Competition on PC for MP games is a LOT tougher than in console.

I'm sure they are factoring in revenue from upcoming single player games.
Sony just posted in that PDF their best numbers ever, it's dumb to call them clueless. Regarding GaaS, in the slides they talk about console and mobile. When detailing their releases per platform they have a "PS4+PS5" group but not a "PS5+PC" group and having a "PC" group instead, very likely meaning that for PC what they plan is to continue porting old (mostly) single player games.

Cous it isn't, its a single player game with an online componant attacked to it...
Like gran turismo sport it's a live service, a GaaS. It requires online and gets updated periodically adding new content and changes, features microtransactions and also has multiplayer.

End of an era! Ps going full Microsoft model by 2025.
No, Sony never said they plan to release their games day one on PC or subscriptions.
They said that in 2025 compared to now they will invest more than now in PC and mobile, but also more than now in console and VR. They will invest more than now in gaas, but also more than now in traditional games. They also said that half of their FY2025 games will be new IP.
 
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SlimySnake

Member
How in the hell are they going to get to 300M in 2022?

They will probably need to unleash all kinds of PS4 games and PS5 games on PC for that to happen. I'm talking stuff like Spiderman, Horizon: FW, Gran Turismo, The Last of Us, etc...
Returnal is coming to Steam.


GoW made just $26 million. And thats their biggest IP. To get to $300 million, they will need 11 of those games. Assuming their live service games make $50 million each, you still need 8 GOW caliber ports to hit $300 million.
 
I would expect that their traditional games would for the time being. I imagine once their GaaS get released is when we might see that change. Assuming at least a few of them do well.

On one hand I'd really like to see them release a really good multiplayer game, which would almost certainly be of the live service variety. While their inexperience with such games certainly has it's drawbacks, it might result in a game that comes at multiplayer from a different angle or with fresh ideas due to that inexperience.

But man, could you imagine if Sony makes something that is crazy successful? Like fortnite or similar? As much as I'd be excited for that, it would simultaneously be the death toll for the vast amount of their singleplayer offerings.

I would argue that the exact opposite would happen. Sony are investing this much in gaas titles because there is no guarantee any of the projects stick the landing...but if only one of them...or maybe a couple succeed in becoming money printing machines, I think that that would make them concentrate on updating and nurturing said titles, while using part of the proceeds to pay for the expensive SP products; New gaas IPs would be introduced sparingly from that point onward. If Sony succeeds in their gaas endeavours, we will be seeing more big budgeted SP franchises, not less.
 
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DarthPutin

Member
I want them to release games on PC ASAP, but they have A LOT to port in the short term. Like why would you release Spider-man 2 on PC before releasing first game and MM? They have a lot of catching up to do, plus release of MP games (which will be day 1). There is also the fact that you'll have more capable PCs as time goes by, especially if you release something really next-gen at some point.
I think we can expect most of what is "free" on PS Plus to be ported soon-ish (except for Bloodborne, because of course))). This way there is clear advantage on PS to get these games at the price of subscription, while they'll also make games on PC.

GoT, TLOU-bundle, Returnal, Demon's Souls, Spider-man and MM eventually, maybe previous Ratchet before last one, etc. These things take time in any case.
 
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Lupin25

Member
I do, I'd love to own my games on PC and ps. My steam account is from day one steam and has hundreds of games, I'd live to add playstation games to that.

Oh you will, and I suspect there’s going to be a huge drop in PS4/PS5 games coming to PC (with a launcher?)

….but that’s a far cry from Day-and-date. Sony’s approach is cautious of their SKU’s.

Reads like someone who two years ago said no chance of games coming to PC at all lmao…

I feel like the conversation two years ago was more about a topic of when.


…Now we know lol.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Gold Member
Cous it isn't, its a single player game with an online componant attacked to it...

How's that any different than MLB The Show? GT7 is already getting 3 free cars this month. Though, I guess people have heard Jim Ryan say they have 2 unannounced Live Service games scheduled to release before March 2023?
 

yurinka

Member
I would argue that the exact opposite would happen. Sony are investing this much in gaas titles because there is no guarantee any of the projects stick the landing...but if only one of them...or maybe a couple succeed in becoming money printing machines, I think that that would make them concentrate on updating and nurturing said titles, while using part of the proceeds to pay for the expensive SP products; New gaas IPs would be introduced sparingly from that point onward. If Sony succeeds in their gaas endeavours, we will be seeing more big budgeted SP franchises, not less.
Bungie games, MLB and gran turismo will be very successful. And I bet Deviation, Firewalk and Haven also have high chances of being successful considering the pedigree of their teams.

They shown a graph where they said that in 2025 their investment on GaaS will be way higher than now, but that same graph also mentions that they also will increase their investment on "traditional" (single player focused) games compared to now. And right now they have over 25 games under development, being aprox. two thirds of them non gaas games.
 

yurinka

Member
How's that any different than MLB The Show? GT7 is already getting 3 free cars this month. Though, I guess people have heard Jim Ryan say they have 2 unannounced Live Service games scheduled to release before March 2023?
He didn't say "unannounced" he did show this where for some reason they forgot to include GT7 (obviously in the Live Service side). Their last FY GaaS game was GT7. The two GaaS for this FY year are MLB The Show 22 and something else, very likely TLOU Factions, but this FY they may also release a Bungie new IP because they plan to release "at least one" (so they are working on more) before 2025/2026.



I want them to release games on PC ASAP, but they have A LOT to port in the short term. Like why would you release Spider-man 2 on PC before releasing first game and MM? They have a lot of catching up to do, plus release of MP games (which will be day 1). There is also the fact that you'll have more capable PCs as time goes by, especially if you release something really next-gen at some point.
I think we can expect most of what is "free" on PS Plus to be ported soon-ish (except for Bloodborne, because of course))). This way there is clear advantage on PS to get these games at the price of subscription, while they'll also make games on PC.

GoT, TLOU-bundle, Returnal, Demon's Souls, Spider-man and MM eventually, maybe previous Ratchet before last one, etc. These things take time in any case.
They saw that to port old hits to PC has a huge ROI and is very profitable for them, and also use them to promote movie, tv shows or PS5 only sequels. As a result they doubled down on that strategy.

Bungie games will be day one on PC, but some of their PS Studios must remain exclusive for ever and other ones to be ported to PC some time later, once it already sold all it could on console and once also were offered on their game sub. Their exclusives are their main selling point of their console, game sub and platform, so they will continue focusing on console and their console games.

I think the ones that make more sense to be released on PC would be Spider-Man & Miles Morales to also promote Spider-Man 2 and the TLOU stuff to also promote the tv show. They were very succesful games so will work well on PC too.
 
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GreatnessRD

Member
Going by the sales part it looks like the avg game gets about $27 revenue per copy. Working backwards with steam's 30% cut, it's about $38 retail price on average.
That's all fine and good. Jimmy boy just better continue to bring that heat to Steam and PC in general. I'm here for all the smoke!
 

SlimySnake

Member
Going by the sales part it looks like the avg game gets about $27 revenue per copy. Working backwards with steam's 30% cut, it's about $38 retail price on average.
But the game never really went on sale. It's still $50. and likely higher in european markets.

If steam is taking a 30% cut, that means they get $35 per copy. 961k*35= 33,635,000 or $33 million. That means the port's budget was likely around $6 million.
 

yurinka

Member
Going by the sales part it looks like the avg game gets about $27 revenue per copy. Working backwards with steam's 30% cut, it's about $38 retail price on average.
But the game never really went on sale. It's still $50. and likely higher in european markets.

If steam is taking a 30% cut, that means they get $35 per copy. 961k*35= 33,635,000 or $33 million. That means the port's budget was likely around $6 million.

In addition to the 30% Steam cut there's an average of 10-15% of chargebacks and refunds on Steam, plus a 20-25% of taxes and currency interchange/transactions fee.
 
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John Wick

Member
Returnal is coming to Steam.


GoW made just $26 million. And thats their biggest IP. To get to $300 million, they will need 11 of those games. Assuming their live service games make $50 million each, you still need 8 GOW caliber ports to hit $300 million.
What happens if the live service games make 100 million+ each? How do you know returnal won't make $30-40 million? Some games are far more suited for PC audiences than others. TLOU will do really well on PC same as Uncharted.
 

SlimySnake

Member
What happens if the live service games make 100 million+ each? How do you know returnal won't make $30-40 million? Some games are far more suited for PC audiences than others. TLOU will do really well on PC same as Uncharted.
Their live service games would have to sell 2 million copies to make $100 million on PC. We havent really seen that.

And GOW is their biggest IP. It made $26 million. Returnal sold 500k on the PS5. It is not selling any more than that on PC. GOW sold 20 million on PS4. 1 million on PC. Thats a 1 in 20 ratio. Even if we go 1:1, we are looking at 500k sales and $13 million in revenue.

TLOU, Uncharted and GoT should do GOW numbers on PC. It's clear that the PC audience isnt really dying for Sony games. Elden Rings and Cyberpunk sold much better at around 6 and 8 million respectively.

Day one releases of GOW 2, Spiderman 2, and Wolverine might be different because a lot of the hardcore Sony fans are on PC now and they might pick them up on PC instead of PS5.
 

yurinka

Member
They expect 300 million by next march from what exactly? 2 old ports?
Yes. GoW sold that only at the end of the previous fiscal year. It will continue selling this year (now during a whole year, and as Steam users typically buy: discounted), like Days Gone and Horizon. I bet these two ports will be:
  • TLOU2 Director's Cut (includes TLOU1 remake)
  • Spider-Man Miles Morales Ultimate Edition (includes Spider-Man Remastered)
They'd help to crosspromote the TLOU TV show and Spider-Man 2 (PS5 only) releases.

Their live service games would have to sell 2 million copies to make $100 million on PC. We havent really seen that.

And GOW is their biggest IP. It made $26 million. Returnal sold 500k on the PS5. It is not selling any more than that on PC. GOW sold 20 million on PS4. 1 million on PC. Thats a 1 in 20 ratio. Even if we go 1:1, we are looking at 500k sales and $13 million in revenue.

TLOU, Uncharted and GoT should do GOW numbers on PC. It's clear that the PC audience isnt really dying for Sony games. Elden Rings and Cyberpunk sold much better at around 6 and 8 million respectively.

Day one releases of GOW 2, Spiderman 2, and Wolverine might be different because a lot of the hardcore Sony fans are on PC now and they might pick them up on PC instead of PS5.
GoW sold that in only 2 months and a half and at full price. This FY it will sell during a whole year and pretty likely with nice discounts. Most Steam players buy discounted, not at full price.

Spider-Man and TLOU sold more than GoW, and when ported to PC, pretty likely this year, pretty likely will be bundled with the also big sellers TLOU2 and Miles Morales so will sell even more and these addons would help them feel not that old (specially with TLOU being remade).

Day one releases on PC of GoW2, Spider-Man 2 or Wolverine won't exist. For now their plan for PC is Bungie games day one on PC, ports of old PS Studios games and PS+ Premium cloud gaming..
 
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mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Remember the Nvidia leak:
  • Demon's Souls
  • Ghosts of Tsushima
  • God of War ✅
  • Gran Turismo 7
  • Helldivers 2
  • Horizon Forbidden West
  • Ratchet & Clank
  • Returnal
  • Sackboy: A Big Adventure
  • Uncharted: Legacy of Thieves Collection ✅
With these games, you have your 300 million for 2023. In fact, I think that's a perfect goal with big year-over-year growth but easily achievable with these releases.

I also think most if not ALL of those same games will be on PS+ in 2023 also. So they'll be making money on those games in three ways. And I expect the timing release will be different for all three launches.

1. Day One direct purchases and beyond
2. By more people buying PS+ Plus and Premium service to play these games for "free"
3. Selling them on PC
 

InfiniteCombo

Gold Member
I'd love to see the Uncharted trilogy on PC one day.
That would be amazing, and I'd definitely buy it day 1. I've already played through the games when they originally came out on PS3, and when the remastered trilogy came out on PS4. (I got the Platinum Trophy for each of the games in the trilogy). And I would play through them again.

Great fun games. Yes, even Uncharted 1.
 
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