• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Outsourcing and TV to Blame for Halo Infinite Woes

diffusionx

Member
Feb 25, 2006
14,563
14,705
1,800
If all of this is true, I wouldn't expect this thing until Spring of 2022. If there are gems of truth in there but it's actually salvageable, maybe we'll see it fall 2021.

Either way I would not be surprised if this is 343i's final game for Microsoft.

Seriously, at what point does it just make more sense for MS to hire Sumo Digital or whomever to make a Halo? You know a classy professionally run studio that knows how to ship a game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sensationalist

godhandiscen

There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
Mar 15, 2007
15,621
4,678
1,765
It looks like they took down the IGN article. Does anybody have a copy of it?
 

INC

Gold Member
Jan 8, 2018
7,630
15,505
740
From the article:

"Apparently, the E3 2019 trailer for Halo Infinite was outsourced while the game was not in a playable state, which "over-sold expectations for Infinite's later demos." The report suggests that the marketing and engineering teams behind Halo Infinite "have been on two different planets," which has also led to issues in messaging the game."

It kinda makes more sense why people were leaving in 2019 now, try and get as far as away as possible from the blast wave. The whole distraction with the TV show just makes it even more stupid, did management forget they were supposed to be making a game or...?

They pulled a kz2 e3 2005 on us

Ironic that kz2 was meant to be a halo killer, and halo ended up pulling a kz2 and killing itself
 

Vawn

Banned
Feb 20, 2018
9,355
19,653
810
It's almost like they should concentrate on making a game before caring about a tv series , the mistake theyve been making multiple times at this point

At least this time they don't expect you to watch the TV show to understand the game and vice-versa.

Well, I assume not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sensationalist

VertigoOA

Banned
Jan 15, 2018
3,600
4,037
730
What I’m trying to understand is...

So Halo community manager chimes in claiming that the rumors of Halo Infinite having the campaign and pvp shipping separately ...being untrue

To then...

to then mention that Phil Spencer went on some animal crossing talk show confirming that there was indeed discussions to ship them separately before deciding to announce a delay.

What kind of mental gymnastics is that!? The fuck?

Wasn’t their excuse originally covid?????


LOL
 
Last edited:

h00ters

Member
Jul 17, 2013
200
203
570
Melbourne, Australia
I said this a few months ago in the Halo OT. The amount of outsourcing that seems to be taking place on this project is a massive concern.

Anyone who has worked on a project split across multiple offices knows that this instantly creates gaps in communication, doubling up of work, and strain amongst teams.
 

FunkMiller

Member
Aug 14, 2014
8,081
25,190
990
Everytime we get more Halo Infinite news you see less and less fanboys trying to defend it.

I think the disgust at the way 343 are handling this game goes across the whole gaming community, no matter what the personal preference of platform. It’s unreal that such a huge franchise can be fucked up this badly, with so many millions of dollars spent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808 and MrS

Chiggs

Gold Member
Jan 20, 2005
14,654
6,084
1,855
It looks like they took down the IGN article. Does anybody have a copy of it?

I'm reading it right now?

Also, 343i are such liars. It will all come out. I don't care if that 500 million number was thrown out by some Xbox fan site; it's looking more and more believable each passing day.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808

Bonfires Down

Member
Jul 31, 2007
3,211
4,634
1,570
 

ik3

Neo Member
Aug 12, 2020
33
68
210
Los Angeles
What kind of mental gymnastics is that!? The fuck?

Wasn’t their excuse originally covid???
Thiiiiiiis. Also it’s unsurprising but still amusing to see how deep Brad got buried on r/halo

A company publicly criticizing someone for a vlog is a weird flex. Do they try to prove 100% of what’s been said was incorrect, or will they admit the things they got right? Either way it is always a terrible look, because they could have refuted the issues without it looking like desperation is setting in.

• They can prove that the game is functioning beyond the tiny section we saw, by just showing another part of the game.
• They can prove how well the engine shunts polygons around, with some dramatic flyover as the TOD changes.
• They could ... etc etc.

Instead of show anything of the game, they’re in attack mode. 343 is going to be dissolved, the only question now is if it’s before they deliver this game or not. What an awful mess.
 
Last edited:

Chiggs

Gold Member
Jan 20, 2005
14,654
6,084
1,855
Instead of show anything of the game, they’re in attack mode. 343 is going to be dissolved, the only question now is if it’s before they deliver this game or not. What an awful mess.

Some people are going to say a take like yours is a knee jerk reaction full of hyperbole, but I am right there with you. 343i has shamed and disgraced the Halo universe since 2012. Halo 4 wasn't awful, but it wasn't good, either. Master Chief Collection was a mess for close to three years, and Halo 5 was awful. They are in trouble. Period.

The other person who is in deep shit is Phil Spencer. Nadella took over in 2014 and probably knew about Mattrick's exit the prior year and thought, "well, that was good enough, and people seem to really like Phil."

But Nadella is no dummy. And Phil is already bungling things so badly that morale at Xbox must be in the shitter. Put two and two together.

What an awful mess is right.
 
Last edited:

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Member
Apr 16, 2012
10,088
4,130
1,000
Melbourne, Australia
MCC and now this. FFS. Microsoft/Xbox should designate 343 to handle all non-mainline game related Halo content, as they do now. Buy two studios, such as Respawn and the guys that have splintered off a new start up, and give them one focus each. Mainline campaign/PvE game and a multiplayer title. Make it one GaaS title or two separate titles but ensure the two core studios do nothing else but their one game/aspects. Razor focus.

In 5 years two smaller focused studios could have easily pushed 2-3 titles of high quality. What we have with Infinite is total trash from what has been shown so far. Also fuck these "in engine bullshot simulations", they should be made illegal at this point. Completely misrepresenting a product to the public. Show the game when it's the actual fucking game running.

Phil you've dropped the ball not ensuring 343 was on track. Clean house. All your other Xbox endeavours are gold for me e.g. GP, BC, xCloud, X1X, XSX, ID@Xbox, PC, crossplay. No way Phil should go from Xbox but a massive slap on the wrist or performance penalties surrounding Halo's disgrace are in order.

PS - Speculating the Halo TV show is going to suck balls.
 
Last edited:

Chiggs

Gold Member
Jan 20, 2005
14,654
6,084
1,855
MCC and now this. FFS. Microsoft/Xbox should designate 343 to handle all non-mainline game related Halo content, as they do now. Buy two studios, such as Respawn and the guys that have splintered off a new start up, and give them one focus each. Mainline campaign/PvE game and a multiplayer title. Make it one GaaS title or two separate titles but ensure the two core studios do nothing else but their one game/aspects. Razor focus.

In 5 years two smaller focused studios could have easily pushed 2-3 titles of high quality. What we have with Infinite is total trash from what has been shown so far. Also fuck these "in engine bullshot simulations", they should be made illegal at this point. Completely misrepresenting a product to the public. Show the game when it's the actual fucking game running.

Phil you've dropped the ball not ensuring 343 was on track. Clean house. All your other Xbox endeavours are gold for me e.g. GP, BC, xCloud, X1X, XSX, ID@Xbox, PC, crossplay.

You are literally better than Phil at, well, literally everything. Not sure if you have any development experience, but it's funny if you don't, because what you're saying is on the money.

Also, fuck this moron. "Own the show." You idiot.


 

#Phonepunk#

Banned
Sep 4, 2018
18,541
36,209
885
40
bad news all around. sounds like they lost some top talent and have been scrambling. the marketing team and game team are not communicating well, they blame that for the unsatisfactory reveal.

also there seems to be an extraordinary amount of contracting development out to third parties. they admit this is a common practice in AAA but that it is used to a much greater extent with this game.

sounds like a mess tbh. will come out 2021 at the earliest.
 

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Member
Apr 16, 2012
10,088
4,130
1,000
Melbourne, Australia
You are literally better than Phil at, well, literally everything. Not sure if you have any development experience, but it's funny if you don't, because what you're saying is on the money.

Also, fuck this moron. "Own the show." You idiot.

Thanks. Dev project management is my job, for my own company. Just not in gaming but business systems/ecom/web etc. Very similar pipelines, tools and tech. I have a personal interest in some of the more artsy industry tools they use e.g. Max, Maya, Photoshop, blah blah but I'm a nerdy coder by necessity. I'm used to dealing with hiring/sourcing, artists, coders, testers, staff, outsourced workers, requirements, planning, timelines, blowouts, problems, clients, UI, collaboration etc. It just boggles my mind that 5 years has produced so very little to show with Infinite. What the fuck would they have shown at E3 exactly?

The 343 track record speaks volumes to why they're not up to mainline Halo games. It's objectively factual and history is repeating itself. Phil should have been on their ass a few times per week throughout the whole project, especially given MCC and a next gen launch title pushing for return to form.

But no Phil is killer in so many other areas, not a job I could do as well as him e.g. all the other successes he's brought to Xbox in recent years. The problem is Halo Infinite/343 dissipated all the wind out of the sails of the Xbox ship running full steam ahead to forge a new path.
 

mortal

Member
Apr 1, 2016
6,664
14,768
840
Lol what haven't they blamed at this point?

Also that in-engine trailer from last year was outsourced? Oh geez...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

Chiggs

Gold Member
Jan 20, 2005
14,654
6,084
1,855
Thanks. Dev project management is my job, for my own company. Just not in gaming but business systems/ecom/web etc. Very similar pipelines, tools and tech. I have a personal interest in some of the more artsy industry tools they use e.g. Max, Maya, Photoshop, blah blah but I'm a nerdy coder by necessity. I'm used to dealing with hiring/sourcing, artists, coders, testers, staff, outsourced workers, requirements, planning, timelines, blowouts, problems, clients, UI, collaboration etc. It just boggles my mind that 5 years has produced so very little to show with Infinite. What the fuck would they have shown at E3 exactly?

Well that explains it. I manage entertainment projects—components of them, at least—and I’ve been on the good and bad side of things, and what’s happening with 343i/Halo Infinite reminds me of some of the bigger train wrecks I’ve seen..or been involved with.

I really do think they’re in trouble, and Phil is in denial and can’t bring himself to confront the people that need to be confronted; or they’re so reliant on vendors they can’t really terminate any of the contracts, because if they did, it would essentially mean starting over. You can yell and scream all you want at vendor managers, but those chaps also know when they have you by the balls.
 
Last edited:

Clarissa

Banned
May 15, 2019
1,221
2,373
645
I wonder who they will cast as the actor for Craig in the TV show.
 
Last edited:

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Member
Apr 16, 2012
10,088
4,130
1,000
Melbourne, Australia
Mother of God. Can you imagine how good a Respawn reboot could be?


Microsoft could manufacture an actual pot of gold, find a way to sell it for $10, and they’d still manage to find a way to make the advertising boring for it.

Respawn would kill it at the moment. Jedi Fallen Order for campaign, Apex Legends for multiplayer (with classic Halo) and perhaps a partner or splinter build for Destiny style PvE content. I honestly was expecting that sort of launch title out of Infinite. They showed and talk about nothing for multiplayer, nothing for PvE, nothing about campaign gameplay or locations or story. Fuck me so little was shown.

This type of closed off development is not good. 343 have been remarketing themselves as this transparent company but they've been in the dark for approaching 5 years and we've got squat. At this point the best leadership would be to fully open up what they have (without major story spoilers) and involve the fans and players with what they're doing. I don't want a game developed by committee or dictated by fans but 343 are lost TBH, bring the community feedback in like nothing else. Open up a source code Halo, work with the best of the community and watch it become the next Minecraft. You have the fucking roadmap with the 4 games I've just mentioned in this post. Plan and build it well, then sustain and watch it flourish.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Sensationalist

godhandiscen

There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
Mar 15, 2007
15,621
4,678
1,765
I'm reading it right now?

Also, 343i are such liars. It will all come out. I don't care if that 500 million number was thrown out by some Xbox fan site; it's looking more and more believable each passing day.
I clicked the IGN link in the OP. Maybe it is something specific to my device.
 
Apr 28, 2020
570
1,248
485
If anyone wants a good laugh this is apparently the post Frank/Stinkles was permabanned on Ree for:

 

DerFuggler

Member
Jun 13, 2019
109
158
265
Can't wait for the noclip documentary on all of this. I hope it turns out more like the FFXIV story though.
 

MrFunSocks

Member
Jul 9, 2020
3,976
7,106
665
Ok so I think I’ve got this right now....

Brad Sams: Thing happened at 343

343 employee: no it didnt

Brad: I’m just saying what I think happened and I know you’re being forced to lie to make 343 look good

343 employee: no I’m not, I’m just correcting you

Brad: it’s my truth

SonyGAF: you go Brad Sams you hero
 

CitizenX

Banned
Jul 15, 2020
751
743
305
Um excuse me if im wrong Sandy but didnt they have to basically REDO all of MCC so that it was not only acceptable but working on PC? Who would have ever thought MS would be selling more half done games than Steam in 2020. LOL.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808
Oct 26, 2018
20,960
28,997
820
Lol what haven't they blamed at this point?

Also that in-engine trailer from last year was outsourced? Oh geez...
No wonder so many games get bullshots.

Parent company outsources a demo to a faceless company and tells them to amp up a demo like it's on a NASA powered PC rig.

You'd think the logical thing to do is have some in-house employees who know the game would work on a reasonably close promotional video, and then when it's over they go back to working on the game. It's not like most demos are even real time gameplay or a downloadable demo. It's a canned video.

When you got to many third parties doing their own thing, you get delays and confused messages, as well as push back.

At every company I've worked for when the marketing department handles packaging and artwork everything flows smooth. Everyone is in-house and directors and VP calls the shots.

When they hire agencies or third party companies to help with art, there's this endless back and forth BS where company tells them to do something, it takes time to do it and send back, more back and forth and then approved. And when the company doesn't like something and wants something changed, these outsourced companies who you'd think would do what the marketing managers and directors want since they are paying the contract push back and sometimes don't budge.

Some of these outsourced assholes do their own thing and when asked to change, they take it like a personal insult and drag their feet because someone in-house said change something.
 
Last edited:

seanoff

Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,440
71
1,535
There’s a lot of posts on Ree doubting Thurrott. Really.

his Word is usually gospel when it comes to ms. I’d be prepared to think his reporting is absolute truth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mckmas8808

ik3

Neo Member
Aug 12, 2020
33
68
210
Los Angeles
When 343 recorded the gameplay video, why didn’t the person playing choose not to look directly at cloud-pop-in-mountain when they were riding the lift? And, why didn’t they re-record the demo?

We’d know almost everything if we knew the answers to those questions.