Dusktildawn48
Member
Absolutely loved this season, but left me so
depressed. P and tyrion are my favorite characters on tv
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Orange is the New Black S4 |OT| Welcome to the block - June 17th
- Thread starter GK86
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metalslimer
Member
Man both this show and house of cards had wonderful comebacks this year. I'll echo the sentiment that some of the flashbacks seemed kind of pointless, and Piper was still a terrible character.
Full season
While they're a pretty hacky way to convey character history and the show could do better, stuff like Suzanne or Bailey's flash backs worked well in their respective episodes. Poussey's flashback was nicely done as well. Stuff like Healy or even Maria's flashbacks were pretty dumb though.
Blitzrules240
Banned
I knew
something was gonna happen to Poussey when she had the book Julius Caesar behind her while talking to Judy King but I didn't expect that...
A Link to the Past
Banned
I liked
Healy's flashback. I felt that it was valuable in setting up why he's such a strange person now, showing not only his mother issues and his upbringing in a strict socially conservative household, but also foreshadowing to his admission into a mental health facility.
It also provided context for how intent he became on
connecting with Lolly since it was something he wasn't able to do with his mother, and how messed up he felt afterwards when her story about the body turned out to be true.
Judy King:
She was really underwhelming, in my opinion, and her accent pissed me off. I wish she had been more bad, like she implied in the garden when she told Red she'd shove the corn up her ass. I really enjoyed Vee way back, and was hoping there would be a character more like her (but different) in this season too. Judy had potential to be a manipulative bitch with a following of ignorant unknowing people (like the junkies, that'd be hilarious).
The One and Done
Member
Does anyone have an idea why they'd write Poussey off the show?
Also do you think the Pouseey flashback was actually Heaven? They way it went felt too euphoric to be real.
Also do you think the Pouseey flashback was actually Heaven? They way it went felt too euphoric to be real.
Ep 12 13
RageWaffles
Member
The One and Done™;208187814 said:
There's an interview with the author of ep. 12 and the actress who plays
Poussey where they talk about the why of it. (link:The URL is a spoiler; don't hover if you haven't watched!)
Lauren Morelli, the episode's writer said: "Jenji [Kohan, the series creator] came in feeling that telling not only a Black Lives Matter story but talking about the inherent violence of prison was really, really important. We had built to this point with the overcrowding and privatization, and we felt like we wanted to see the consequences of that." ... "We got into some very heated debates in the writers’ room about which character it should be. And ultimately Jenji made a point that has really stuck with me, and that I’ve used as my centering device throughout the season — and that is, whatever character we chose, she wanted it to feel like that character had a future on the outside of prison ahead of them, so that the loss of that future would really be felt. Her point was that would be most clearly seen through Poussey, which I completely agree with."
Lauren Morelli, the episode's writer said: "Jenji [Kohan, the series creator] came in feeling that telling not only a Black Lives Matter story but talking about the inherent violence of prison was really, really important. We had built to this point with the overcrowding and privatization, and we felt like we wanted to see the consequences of that." ... "We got into some very heated debates in the writers’ room about which character it should be. And ultimately Jenji made a point that has really stuck with me, and that I’ve used as my centering device throughout the season — and that is, whatever character we chose, she wanted it to feel like that character had a future on the outside of prison ahead of them, so that the loss of that future would really be felt. Her point was that would be most clearly seen through Poussey, which I completely agree with."
Are you talking about Healy's flashback with his mom?
I felt that flashback worked because it explains why Healy sympathizes with Lolly's mental illness.
I felt that flashback worked because it explains why Healy sympathizes with Lolly's mental illness.
Did it last season too, w/ the Alex stuff.
The whole point, the whole idea behind binge watching...
Sure you could leave a little tease, if you got a satisfying ending. Marco Polo, DD, JJ, HoC did so fucking well in that regard. They just couldn't help themselves, and this one is a year off not like series on TV that would start again in 3-6 months.
As for last season's, I don't think it was that huge of a cliffhanger, this one has so much more weight, they built Daya's character incredibly well. Fucking hell.
Sure you could leave a little tease, if you got a satisfying ending. Marco Polo, DD, JJ, HoC did so fucking well in that regard. They just couldn't help themselves, and this one is a year off not like series on TV that would start again in 3-6 months.
As for last season's, I don't think it was that huge of a cliffhanger, this one has so much more weight, they built Daya's character incredibly well. Fucking hell.
PartTimeWarrior
Banned
Just finished the last episode
fuck cliffhangers
Personally, I didn't care much for this exact cliffhanger. I dunno why.. last season's Alex cliffhanger was way more cliffhanger-y! I'm not really dying to know if Daya pulls the trigger, or what she does, because the prison is already a mess right there so it isn't *too* exciting for me. It'd be awesome if she gave the gun to Judy King and she shot him or something, then left the prison (while the other female guard didn't see who shot him, or something like that). lol
ZackieChan
Member
Full season:
really loved this season up until episode 12. I thought Poussey's death was pretty poorly directed. Not sure why, but it didn't get me like it should have. The whole scene just happened too quickly or something. Then the next episode didn't have a real impact on me either. I think that the things they were building toward through the season weren't really what became the focus at the end. Great season with meh ending. Not sure why Daya would be the one to pick up the gun. I guess she's looking for acceptance and another mother figure? They didn't spend enough time on her to make that have impact, I think.
I really liked this season overall.
Uh oh
Poussey's death was heartbreaking. I got chills when the whole cast decided to stand up on the tables in the canteen.
They sure did drop the conflict between Piper and the Latinas pretty quickly though. Once she turns the swastika tattoo into a window it's like all is well.
They sure did drop the conflict between Piper and the Latinas pretty quickly though. Once she turns the swastika tattoo into a window it's like all is well.
Daya and the gun... Aleida is not gonna be happy about it... Well at least that means Elizabeth Rodriguez is gonna be back next season, I like her and her character so that's good news.
Well you actually learn that she's not that dumb and can sometimes make smart decisions in a split second, which is later confirmed with the way she handles all the panties business stuff. I'm not that objective though since she's my favorite character.
PartTimeWarrior
Banned
Maria should have picked the gun up since she spent the entire season being this badass
Dirtyshubb
Member
the fact it all happened so quickly makes it more powerful This shit has happened to people in real life, one minute your OK and the next tou are dead due to abusive examples of power by authority.
Anyway just finished the season and have to say it's probably my favourite so far. The whole reflection on for profit prisons and abusive authority really gave the show that grittiness that it needed. Fucked up stuff has happened before but the tension building up due to the abuse was handled really well and felt earned.
Anyway just finished the season and have to say it's probably my favourite so far. The whole reflection on for profit prisons and abusive authority really gave the show that grittiness that it needed. Fucked up stuff has happened before but the tension building up due to the abuse was handled really well and felt earned.
Wait, I thought he was visiting someone (
his Mother
Anyway, great Season. Season 2 is still unwatchable, the vee drama kills any interest in re-watching it.
4 > 1 > 3 >>> ... 2
^^^ He checked himself in.
I just finished the last two episodes. I would have finished much sooner but some posts in the thread caused me to look at spoilers
Full season thoughts:
Maybe I'll feel differently in a couple of days but right now I'm going to relax and play some Call of Duty:Guantanamo.
When he first got out of his car, he was carrying a suitcase and he was doing cross-stitch or whatever later. Also, they pointed to that by him asking Red when she got there earlier. He is having a mental break of sorts.
Agreed. I had a hard time this season and can't say that I enjoyed watching it.
This is a great point and I missed it while watching.
I just finished the last two episodes. I would have finished much sooner but some posts in the thread caused me to look at spoilers
and I was really dreading the late episodes. I'm glad I guess that I knew what was coming because I'd have been even more upset otherwise.
Full season thoughts:
1. I liked Piper much more this season.
2. I appreciated the humor and the focus on the Latina group.
3. I was actually happy when Healy started walking into the water.
4. While I think it's great that they are talking about real-life, serious issues this season, I think that I preferred the way they handled this stuff in early seasons. The guards were so upsetting, especially that psycho dude and the big guy. I mean, these new guards made 2 rapists seem like "good guys." The MCC stuff just made me angry and Caputo too. He should have called 911 long before they gave him the go-ahead. I know he means well but everything has gone to shit under his watch and he's still there allowing it to happen. I don't have any sympathy, especially when he's sleeping with Linda from Purchasing.
5. Poussey. Ugh. I get it, I really do, but it seems sort of unearned. The guards were already shit. And now a great character is gone and for what exactly? So they can pat themselves on the back for tackling a big issue? There was absolutely no payoff on the psycho guard feeding Maritza a baby pig, no fallout about keeping Sophia in the SHU all season, Lolly took the fall for the dead guard that no one on the staff knew but took oh-so-personally, Caputo has forgotten all about his education program that turned into forced labor and the loss of the best paying jobs in the prison and now the inmates can't even afford tampons or pads, and whatever else I'm forgetting. Oh, Piscatello's inmate carers becoming a white supremacist group and psycho's instigating the fight between Suzanne and that other one (Kukidio maybe?). But hey, let's show we get it by killing off a much loved character who had spent the entire season with her new girlfriend and Judy King and had only been tangentially involved with the serious stuff all season. Honestly, this stuff got me so upset that I couldn't even enjoy the season even though the other stuff was mostly great.
2. I appreciated the humor and the focus on the Latina group.
3. I was actually happy when Healy started walking into the water.
4. While I think it's great that they are talking about real-life, serious issues this season, I think that I preferred the way they handled this stuff in early seasons. The guards were so upsetting, especially that psycho dude and the big guy. I mean, these new guards made 2 rapists seem like "good guys." The MCC stuff just made me angry and Caputo too. He should have called 911 long before they gave him the go-ahead. I know he means well but everything has gone to shit under his watch and he's still there allowing it to happen. I don't have any sympathy, especially when he's sleeping with Linda from Purchasing.
5. Poussey. Ugh. I get it, I really do, but it seems sort of unearned. The guards were already shit. And now a great character is gone and for what exactly? So they can pat themselves on the back for tackling a big issue? There was absolutely no payoff on the psycho guard feeding Maritza a baby pig, no fallout about keeping Sophia in the SHU all season, Lolly took the fall for the dead guard that no one on the staff knew but took oh-so-personally, Caputo has forgotten all about his education program that turned into forced labor and the loss of the best paying jobs in the prison and now the inmates can't even afford tampons or pads, and whatever else I'm forgetting. Oh, Piscatello's inmate carers becoming a white supremacist group and psycho's instigating the fight between Suzanne and that other one (Kukidio maybe?). But hey, let's show we get it by killing off a much loved character who had spent the entire season with her new girlfriend and Judy King and had only been tangentially involved with the serious stuff all season. Honestly, this stuff got me so upset that I couldn't even enjoy the season even though the other stuff was mostly great.
Maybe I'll feel differently in a couple of days but right now I'm going to relax and play some Call of Duty:Guantanamo.
Finished it. Wow.
Can someone with medical knowhow explain if the end of chapter 12 is plausible?
Can someone with medical knowhow explain if the end of chapter 12 is plausible?
I thought that the scene was a little overtop. Like Taystee immediately broke down in hysterics, shouldn't someone have said "CPR!" or even check if she were fully dead? It seemed to happen too fast, which is why I want to know if it's at all realistic.
No idea.. I kinda thought she had passed out instead. At least they could've left her with her eyes open? So people would have known for sure without checking. I don't recall her eyes being open as she died. Anyway, I was also waiting for someone to try to retrieve her. :/
Charlie0108
Member
Just finished it.
So, did Caputo shift the blame to the in-mates intentionally to start a riot? Was a bit confusing otherwise.
ZeroMaverick
Member
Ironically, Weeds is one of those shows that ran far too long...
Finished Season 4
Season 5 is going to have to work for my attention
Felt like a cliff hanger for cliff hanger's sake. Why was it Daya that picked up the gun? We barely focused on her this season and she wasn't very involved with the confrontations between inmates and COs.
and like, if you're going to give the gun to the inmates, fucking shoot that scumbag CO or not.
slow burns are fine but not if you push them all for the next season.
Also add another tragic dead lesbian to the list of tragic dead lesbians.
and like, if you're going to give the gun to the inmates, fucking shoot that scumbag CO or not.
slow burns are fine but not if you push them all for the next season.
Also add another tragic dead lesbian to the list of tragic dead lesbians.
Season 5 is going to have to work for my attention
ZackieChan
Member
I think this is what I was getting at with my comment above. It didn't feel right to me, and lost the intended effect. That immediate reaction was too much, and weird that her gf didn't jump in or react, even though she was there
Regarding Caputo
Yea we are definitely prejudiced against him especially given the reaction that immediately happens, but Caputo has always been a VERY conflicted character. Honestly I think the actor that plays him is extremely underrated. He inhabits that slimy bastard!
I don't think he was trying to "sell out" his inmates because he actually is somewhat protective of them. But I think he was trying to make the right call for the guard because he comes at it from our perspective in a way. The guard did kill her, but given the circumstances, he acted as was told, in a way that many people would act.
I think the point of the series at this point is that police brutality is not something solveable through like training and shit, because its systemic and effects everyone in the system
I don't think he was trying to "sell out" his inmates because he actually is somewhat protective of them. But I think he was trying to make the right call for the guard because he comes at it from our perspective in a way. The guard did kill her, but given the circumstances, he acted as was told, in a way that many people would act.
I think the point of the series at this point is that police brutality is not something solveable through like training and shit, because its systemic and effects everyone in the system
As I read the episode, Caputo's focus here is on making sure that MCC (and hopefully Piscatella) take responsibility for the death, and the PR flacks are trying to make sure that they can pin the blame on either Poussey or the guard so that MCC won't be liable. So Caputo deliberately goes off-script in order to defend the guard to make it harder for MCC to get out of liability. Of course, Taystee doesn't have that context.
Brian Griffin
Member
I totally feel you, but I think that's the point.
There is no justice in the show because there has been no justice in real life for all the people killed by cops. All the people in charge, even Caputo and others who seem to have capacity for good, are failing these women and treating them like sub-humans because America is doing the exact same thing to all its prisoners and has been for decades.
Wife and I just watched the last 3 eps tonight and
fuuuuuuuuuuuck. Never has a show provoked so many emotions in me, not even Breaking Bad, save for Ozymandias, maybe. This is the best show on now, Game of Thrones can get fucked.
Adam_Roman
Member
This is tied with season 2 as my favorite. I was so skeptical to jump in after how boring S3 was, but after the first two episodes they hooked me right back in. The way they wrote Piper's character, especially in the beginning of the season, was top-notch. Thankfully my girlfriend has yet to start the season so I'll probably re-watch it all with her.
Piscatella's character was a roller coaster for me. I started off disliking him, then I started to love him, then by the end I despised him. He was an excellent addition to the cast though.
Regarding the final scene
Maritza seemed misplaced. She was standing with the black inmates, when she should've been with the latinas. Seems like a weird positional oversight that could've been easily fixed when they were shooting. Also I agree that Daya picking up that gun was very strange. It seemed like they may have wanted to do an arc with Daya being "corrupted" by Maria and her goons, but didn't really follow through with it so the ending was random.
Building off your entire season thoughts
i agree with pretty much 100% of what you said.
I feel this season started strong and ended in such a weird way. Almost like they needed 3-5 more episodes. So many out of character things happened in the last couple episodes.
I also feel like they made the new guards TOO evil. Like they became comic book evil. And to what end? Like what's the goal here?
I feel this season started strong and ended in such a weird way. Almost like they needed 3-5 more episodes. So many out of character things happened in the last couple episodes.
I also feel like they made the new guards TOO evil. Like they became comic book evil. And to what end? Like what's the goal here?
I think there's many layers to why he shifted the blame. He probably knows Bayley wouldn't intentionally kill an inmate and that Piscatella had too much influence over the guards while he (Caputo) was off being too buddy buddy with what's her name from the MCC. He saw how scummy the MCC really is at the top after Poussey's death and wants to try and save himself and make the MCC look worse and take the blame. It will likely backfire because he's still the warden and will fall hard next season. Got too comfortable with the power he wanted from prior season(s).
THR has a good interview with the actress that plays Taystee about this season.
I didn't know that those 2 are close friends in real life also)
Few quotes that stood out to me.
WeAreStarStuff
Member
Finished it, and I'm shocked. This was the best season by far; phenomenal.
univariate
Banned
That better not be a GOT spoiler.
Pretty sure it's not.
Dusktildawn48
Member
Negative sir
The One and Done;208187814 said:
I walked away with the impression that it was a sort of heaven as well. Especially since she looks directly at the camera at the end. It shows her being happy and having a great night with a huge mix of cultures (most of which are represented in the prison)
It's likely it was just a flashback but I like the other idea as well.
The only reason I think it's
just a flashback
the guard who killed her walk by with his friends at one point
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