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[Cels]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/03/technology/uber-greyball-program-evade-authorities.html

Uber has for years engaged in a worldwide program to deceive authorities in markets where its low-cost ride-hailing service was being resisted by law enforcement, or in some instances, had been outright banned.

The program, which involves a tool called Greyball, uses data collected from Uber’s app and other techniques to identify and circumvent officials. Uber used these to evade authorities in cities such as Paris, Boston and Las Vegas, and in countries including Australia, China, South Korea and Italy.

Uber’s use of Greyball was recorded on video in late 2014, when Erich England, a code enforcement inspector for Portland, Ore., tried to catch an Uber car downtown as part of a sting operation against the company.

At the time, Uber had just started its ride-hailing service in Portland without seeking permission from the city, which later declared the service illegal. To build a case against the company, officers like Mr. England posed as riders, opening the Uber app to hail a car and watching as the miniature vehicles on the screen wound their way toward him.

But unknown to Mr. England and other authorities, some of the digital cars they saw in their Uber apps were never there at all. The Uber drivers they were able to hail also quickly canceled. That was because Uber had tagged Mr. England and his colleagues — essentially Greyballing them as city officials — based on data collected from its app and through other techniques. Uber then served up a fake version of its app that was populated with ghost cars, to evade capture.

When Uber moved into a new city, it appointed a general manager to lead the charge. The manager would try to spot enforcement officers using a set of technologies and techniques.

One method involved drawing a digital perimeter, or “geofence,” around authorities’ offices on a digital map of the city that Uber monitored. The company watched which people frequently opened and closed the app — a process internally called “eyeballing” — around that location, which signified that the user might be associated with city agencies.

Other techniques included looking at the user’s credit card information and whether that card was tied directly to an institution like a police credit union.

Enforcement officials involved in large-scale sting operations to catch Uber drivers also sometimes bought dozens of cellphones to create different accounts. To circumvent that tactic, Uber employees went to that city’s local electronics stores to look up device numbers of the cheapest mobile phones on sale, which were often the ones bought by city officials, whose budgets were not sizable.

In all, there were at least a dozen or so signifiers in the VTOS program that Uber employees could use to assess whether users were new riders or very likely city officials.

 

[Wanda/Wander]

What is with all this negative press for Uber all of sudden?

 

[Gattsu25]

Uber seems to operate a lot like a criminal operation at times, huh.

What is with all this negative press for Uber all of sudden?

Well, for one they encouraged unchecked sexual harassment within their own workforce. A lot of disgruntled employees form as a result of that.

 

[radios shipping overview]

Jesus. Super fucking shady and entitled behavior. Can't they just not be evil?

 

[Slayven]

But unknown to Mr. England and other authorities, some of the digital cars they saw in their Uber apps were never there at all. The Uber drivers they were able to hail also quickly canceled. That was because Uber had tagged Mr. England and his colleagues — essentially Greyballing them as city officials — based on data collected from its app and through other techniques. Uber then served up a fake version of its app that was populated with ghost cars, to evade capture.

Jesus christ, they got some bodies in a oil drum somewhere don't they?

 

[Moose Biscuits]

As morally shitty as that might be, that's pretty smart.

 

[Pops Maellard]

What is with all this negative press for Uber all of sudden?

\/ because of this pretty much.

Uber seems to operate a lot like a criminal operation at times, huh.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

god i hope this fucking company would just die already

 

[WedgeX]

Uber seems to operate a lot like a criminal operation at times, huh.

It seriously does.

 

[jelly]

Wow, that is shady as hell and pretty impressive.

 

[ReAxion]

Well isn't that nefarious.

 

[Magus1234]

What is with all this negative press for Uber all of sudden?

Yeah, I do not care for Uber at all, but there does seem to be some kind of campaign going on against them for some reason or another.

 

[Eidan]

Uber has been a pretty scummy company for years, and its scummy practices have been reported for years. I'd say you should stop asking "Why all the sudden negative press?" and instead ask "Why am I just noticing?"

 

[Armaros]

Yeah, I do not care for Uber at all, but there does seem to be some kind of campaign going on against them for some reason or another.

Uber has been fighting governments all over the globe with regards to their practices.

Little surprise lots of people are investigating them now.

 

[radios shipping overview]

I installed Arro (NYC's official taxi-hailing app). We'll see how that goes.

 

[Cels]

Uber has been fighting governments all over the globe with regards to their practices.

Little surprise lots of people are investigating them now.

well, NYT got the greyball description and docs from four current and former uber employees, it's their own people leaking this stuff

 

[rpmurphy]

I don't know the laws or regulations but are they allowed to use credit card info like that?

 

[Armaros]

well, NYT got the greyball description and docs from four current and former uber employees, it's their own people leaking this stuff

I guess Ubers internal issues mirror their Public facing issues as well.

As also exemplified by the recent sexual harassment accusations.

 

[Hazmat]

Here in Austin we voted that they be more transparent how they operate in regards to pricing and they responded by completely pulling out of the city. It shouldn't surprise anyone that a nearly completely unregulated business is shady as fuck.

 

[Magus1234]

I am familiar with a lot of the activities that Uber has done to put themselves in this position, again no love lost here. I am just saying it seems like a very specific attack is going on against them, these don't usually pop up because a company is shitty and it lead people to investigate. It feels more like an attack from someone invested in the outcome. I realize I shouldn't even post this because it is just pushing aside the actual issue worth discussing but I just thought it peculiar.

 

[Cimarron]

Hmm kind of shady. On another note am I the only person that feels that Uber is target of a witch hunt? I just don't get the resistance politicians and cities have against them.

 

[Slayven]

I guess Ubers internal issues mirror their Public facing issues as well.

As also exemplified by the recent sexual harassment accusations.

Uber sounds like a complete shit show that is rotten from top to bottom. I would be shocked if they are still around at the end of the year

 

[BlazinSkatinAxel]

Uber seems to operate a lot like a criminal operation at times, huh.

Stringer Bell...

 

[Somnid]

Actually I'm not even mad, that's amazing.

 

[Zenner]

Uber being squirrely... again?!

Some people don't like to take responsibility for their own shit. They blame everything in their life on somebody else. Good luck!

 

[kirblar]

Hmm kind of shady. On another note am I the only person that feels that Uber is target of a witch hint? I just don't get the resistance politicians and cities have against them.

What you're describing isn't a Witch Hunt- that's when you say "we have witches among us" for a pretense for a crackdown or investigation when you know there aren't actually witches there. (see: the Red Scare.)

Uber faces resistance because even if you ignore the scummy behavior (which there appears to be a lot of), their business model faces resistance from established industry (cab companies and such) in the region. One of the things about Uber is that the company is built on a model of "subsidize this until we get automated vehicles out there" (which makes their prices artificially lower that they would be if it was based on a sustainable model), but the clock is ticking on that last part of the equation.

 

[ayeorkean]

What is with all this negative press for Uber all of sudden?

/tin foil on

Someone is probably shorting the stock.

/tin foil off

 

[Eidan]

Hmm kind of shady. On another note am I the only person that feels that Uber is target of a witch hunt? I just don't get the resistance politicians and cities have against them.

Have you read much on the resistance to Uber?

 

[Armaros]

What you're describing isn't a Witch Hunt- that's when you say "we have witches among us" for a pretense for a crackdown or investigation when you know there aren't actually witches there. (see: the Red Scare.)

Uber faces resistance because even if you ignore the scummy behavior (which there appears to be a lot of), their business model faces resistance from established industry (cab companies and such) in the region. One of the things about Uber is that the company is built on a model of "subsidize this until we get automated vehicles out there" (which makes their prices artificially lower that they would be if it was based on a sustainable model), but the clock is ticking on that last part of the equation.

Which ironically is also going to be setback massively if the Waymo lawsuit succeeds. So all of this shadiness might have zero payoff at the end because they might have to start over on self driving cars.

 

[excelsiorlef]

What is with all this negative press for Uber all of sudden?

Uber has always had negative press.

 

[Madness]

Uber sounds like a complete shit show that is rotten from top to bottom. I would be shocked if they are still around at the end of the year

Well they are still number one and if they go public, they could make billions. It isn't really going away anytime soon even if Lyft and others start eating their marketshare and they get regulated more.

 

[KernelPanic]

Hmm kind of shady. On another note am I the only person that feels that Uber is target of a witch hunt? I just don't get the resistance politicians and cities have against them.

Because they are in cahoots with the cab companies.

As shady as Uber is, cities and cab companies aren't saints either.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

/tin foil on

Someone is probably shorting the stock.

/tin foil off

...they haven't gone public.

 

[Acinixys]

They might be criminals but hot damn

Creating an entire separate app to ghost the cops is some Mr Robot level of insanity

 

[Hari Seldon]

I am familiar with a lot of the activities that Uber has done to put themselves in this position, again no love lost here. I am just saying it seems like a very specific attack is going on against them, these don't usually pop up because a company is shitty and it lead people to investigate. It feels more like an attack from someone invested in the outcome. I realize I shouldn't even post this because it is just pushing aside the actual issue worth discussing but I just thought it peculiar.

From the people I know that work at Uber they are just using people up and spitting them out. I'm guessing a lot of this is employees trying to burn that place down.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Nail them

 

[enzo_gt]

Yeah, I do not care for Uber at all, but there does seem to be some kind of campaign going on against them for some reason or another.

Why is it a campaign and not just all of this stuff is coming to light now? That's how it usually happens, leakers give comfort and license to other leakers that might be afraid.

Plus, Uber has been getting bad press for years. The company's short history is littered with negative press. Years ago they were in hot water when the CEO was harassing people on twitter, surge pricing was exploiting local emergencies, etc.

 

[Magus1234]

From the people I know that work at Uber they are just using people up and spitting them out. I'm guessing a lot of this is employees trying to burn that place down.

Why is it a campaign and not just all of this stuff is coming to light now? That's how it usually happens, leakers give comfort and license to other leakers that might be afraid.

.

Most likely, I think I am just overly skeptical about things with the current administration and it's media tactics. I need to take the tin hat off.

 

[Cyan]

The company's general crappiness aside, using tech to avoid a police sting like this is actually kind of neat.

 

[fuzzyset]

Here in Austin we voted that they be more transparent how they operate in regards to pricing and they responded by completely pulling out of the city. It shouldn't surprise anyone that a nearly completely unregulated business is shady as fuck.

Yeah, it was a weird few weeks, but once word on Fare/Fasten/Ride Austin spread, I realized how completely replaceable Uber is. Drivers seem much happier with Fasten as well (apparently Fasten only takes 1$ from each ride, with the rest ot taxes/driver).

 

[Chmpocalypse]

I am familiar with a lot of the activities that Uber has done to put themselves in this position, again no love lost here. I am just saying it seems like a very specific attack is going on against them, these don't usually pop up because a company is shitty and it lead people to investigate. It feels more like an attack from someone invested in the outcome. I realize I shouldn't even post this because it is just pushing aside the actual issue worth discussing but I just thought it peculiar.

Conspiratorial drivel. This is coming out because they keep doing illegal and immoral shit.

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

Well they are still number one and if they go public, they could make billions. It isn't really going away anytime soon even if Lyft and others start eating their marketshare and they get regulated more.

Going public requires accountability and scrutiny that this company simply wouldn't be able to survive.

 

[Lifeline]

What is with all this negative press for Uber all of sudden?

The Taxi Cab

Spoiler

al

 

[Somnid]

The company's general crappiness aside, using tech to avoid a police sting like this is actually kind of neat.

And to be a little fair you also have to assume that authorities are doing the right thing but in many cases those regulations weren't necessarily put there for safety but to were the result of lobbying to protect the existing cab industry.

In light of recent events, someone should really make a movie about Uber.

 

[The Faceless Master]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/03/technology/uber-greyball-program-evade-authorities.html

i'm actually quite amazed at the lengths they would go to.

fuck the authorities that want the racist status quo to rule.

i can't catch a cab to save my life but i can catch an uber.

 

[DRock]

Props where props are due. I'm impressed.

 

[mashoutposse]

[DJ Khaled]You smaaaaaht.[/DJ Khaled]

As long as riders keep riding and the app remains legal in the most important markets, the press won't matter and they will continue to push forward.

If I were Uber management, I would build into the financial model fees funneled to local governments as that's the only sustainable way to keep off the heat.

 

[Falchion]

Holy shit that is wild. Can you imagine being the person in charge of profiling government employees to ensure they never get access to the real service?

 

[Zoe]

I don't know the laws or regulations but are they allowed to use credit card info like that?

That's what I'm wondering.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Whats up with all the praise?

Lots of people's love affair for horrible and lawless business practices when they're done by a tech co is amazing

Do you like how they wantonly use your data like this? To avoid publicly accountable elected officials?