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NXGamer: Shadow of the Tomb Raider : Now Gen Update Analysis - PS5 | SX | SS | PRO

01011001

Banned
Series S's advantages go well beyond computational capability. It also has a features like Mesh Shaders and Sampler Feedback Streaming that will absolutely blow Xbox One X out of the water. Sampler Feedback Streaming eliminates entirely the one real advantage Xbox One X had, which was the RAM capacity advantage for games.

the thing is tho, this runs in back compat mode... in back compat mode the GPUs in the series consoles run in a GCN compatibility mode, so no IPS gains RDNA2 has will be available here.

they will act like a 4TF GCN and a 12TF GCN gpu respectively

and as I said in my previous post, the Series S is already pretty close to One X performance here (which is why I found it a bit weird that he compared the PS4 pro version here to the XSS version)

Series S = 900p60, One X = 1080p60
Series S runs way smoother than One X

so for a backward compatible game this is about as good as you can go with the Series S. in back compat mode the S is way closer to the PS4 Pro than to the One X
 
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There are very good CB implementations, Horizon, God of War, Detroit, Sekiro, any game using RE Engine...

And there are some bad implementations like FFXV or Red Dead Redemption.

Un general the results are good and I thinks CB is a good reconstruction technique that allows to save on resources that devs can use somewhere else.
I know DF gave RDR2 a lot of crap for it's CB implementation but I bought the game on Xbox One X and PS4 Pro and honestly you really couldn't tell any difference between them when playing. I haven't booted it up on PS5 or XSX yet but I doubt much has changed. One thing that makes the game look better on both platforms is turning off their faux HDR implementation, it washes everything out.
 

01011001

Banned
I know DF gave RDR2 a lot of crap for it's CB implementation but I bought the game on Xbox One X and PS4 Pro and honestly you really couldn't tell any difference between them when playing. I haven't booted it up on PS5 or XSX yet but I doubt much has changed. One thing that makes the game look better on both platforms is turning off their faux HDR implementation, it washes everything out.

you didn't see the difference? RDR2 didn't even really use CBR, it simply ran at 1920x2160 and used the anti aliasing to cover up the stretched pixels somewhat
 
I think NX dropped the ball here doing an avg over a too long a session.

Traversing the forest without anything happening hits 60 easily skewing the result.

During battles the framerate is almost 15-20fps higher on PS5, these are the stress points that affect the gameplay being combat heavy.


Drops happen to 46 on SX during one combat scenario when he was trying to stress it. PS5 dropped to 50 during that part as well. Also ,PS5 is using CBR to maintain higher frame rate and SX is native 4k, so drops more but only in 1 or 2 specific scenarios but overall its rock solid 60 on both overall with average 58 on SX and PS5 59.



PS5 even with CBR 4k(half of native 4k) cant maintain locked 60. Whereas SX SX drops more but overall game stable experience at better image quality.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
they still should have patched in an option on Series X to use the same CB solution.
so this makes ot a bit weird to me that they even bothered to patch it.
HW featureset isn't the same when it comes to CB, so 'same solution' isn't applicable in all scenarios, and writting a new one for a patch would be far too much work.
 

rnlval

Member
the thing is tho, this runs in back compat mode... in back compat mode the GPUs in the series consoles run in a GCN compatibility mode, so no IPS gains RDNA2 has will be available here.

they will act like a 4TF GCN and a 12TF GCN gpu respectively

and as I said in my previous post, the Series S is already pretty close to One X performance here (which is why I found it a bit weird that he compared the PS4 pro version here to the XSS version)

Series S = 900p60, One X = 1080p60
Series S runs way smoother than One X

so for a backward compatible game this is about as good as you can go with the Series S. in back compat mode the S is way closer to the PS4 Pro than to the One X
Radeon VII GCN
Wave64 mode: 12 clock cycles to completion

For RDNA v1,
Wave64 GCN mode: 8 clock cycles to completion
Wave32 mode: 7 clock cycles to completion

There are IPC gains for RDNA v1's Wave64 GCN mode.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Played some on my PS5 and while the image is definitely clean, I remember the x1x version being extremely sharp. I am a big proponent of using 4kcb over native 4k so I will take it but native 4k is native 4k. I wish my X1X hadnt died on me so I could test the two games side by side.
 

Shmunter

Member
Drops happen to 46 on SX during one combat scenario when he was trying to stress it. PS5 dropped to 50 during that part as well. Also ,PS5 is using CBR to maintain higher frame rate and SX is native 4k, so drops more but only in 1 or 2 specific scenarios but overall its rock solid 60 on both overall with average 58 on SX and PS5 59.



PS5 even with CBR 4k(half of native 4k) cant maintain locked 60. Whereas SX SX drops more but overall game stable experience at better image quality.
44 vs 58 during that scenario. Thanks for wasting my time needing to go back to look checking my sanity.

Denied!
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
Once again as a vrr owner I’ll take that extra clarity all day. Hopefully once Sony unlocks vrr that games will get settings matching the series x for owners of those TVs and it will be more or less a draw across the board.
 

FranXico

Member
Season 2 Fergie GIF by The Four
Everyone.
 

cormack12

Gold Member
First one I've seen of his video's in a while, I don't like the percentages use in the video at all. "44% here", "14% here" just sounds like marketing speak when you don't have the assisted notes to hand. Might work better if the figures are shown on the screen instead of percentages said over gameplay.

After seeing a few of these now, I don't actually know how useful they are. They have such different profiles, and priorites in each version as well as different BC modes that they don't really give you a definitive answer. I'm not even sure why if I'm getting the PS5 version I'd want to know what the Xbox version is doing different. I think it's more beneficial to show the original game and then the improvements per platform. I want to know how my PS5 patch is going to improve the PS4 Pro version, not how it looks when put against the X1X/XSS version.

That's not a criticism of NXG btw or DF or anyone who does these vids. They obviously bring in a lot of views, I just think it's more beneficial if you tell me why the patch is worth downloading and if playing through the game again is worth it with these changes......idk
 

Bogroll

Likes moldy games
I haven't seen this game on Pro in real life but if its like any other checkerboard game on Pro bar God of War it looks a bit naff. Would rather it be 1440p if possible any day of the week.
 
44 vs 58 during that scenario. Thanks for wasting my time needing to go back to look checking my sanity.

Denied!
You conveniently ignored part where PS5 dropped to 50? You want me to take screenshot of that part?

Drop to 46 and 50 were only for few seconds. Frame rate was back to normal on both. Dude even on my high end PC i get drops when lot of alpha effects on screen. My frame rate went to 36 during multiple fire flights and my PC beats both next gen console in GPU and cpu.

Also CBR PS5 dropping frames vs Native 4k dropping frames for few seconds. Which is more worse? XD


You would hope PS5 will keep it lock 60 with Cbr but nope.
 
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Shmunter

Member
You conveniently ignored part where PS5 dropped to 50? You want me to take screenshot of that part?

Drop to 46 and 50 were only for few seconds. Frame rate was back to normal on both. Dude even on my high end PC i get drops when lot of alpha effects on screen. My frame rate went to 36 and my PC beats both next gen console in GPU and cpu.

Also CBR PS5 dropping frames vs Native 4k dropping frames for few seconds. Which is more worse? XD


You would hope PS5 will keep it lock 60 with Cbr but nope.
I’m not ignoring it, I didn’t see it in the combat comparison, and verbal commentary also states 58. So by all means, a time stamp?

Edit: just rewatched the shootout yet again. 58 stands. Thanks for trying…is it so hard to admit what’s in front of you? What’s wrong with you lying so blatantly, sheesh.

Don’t bother replying.
 
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assurdum

Banned
Thank you. His reviews always derail from pure technological objective information to some unnecessary fanboy or bias crap that throws it off or me. DF remains the supreme benchmark of benchmarking console performance. 🤷🏾‍♂️
Yeah because DF hardly avoid unnecessary fanboy or bias crap, sure, especially with a particular brand. Lol.
 
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FranXico

Member
I don't like the percentages use in the video at all. "44% here", "14% here" just sounds like marketing speak when you don't have the assisted notes to hand. Might work better if the figures are shown on the screen instead of percentages said over gameplay
Showing the same percentages on screen does not make them any less marketing speak.
I recall such meaningless stats used in many DF videos.
 
You conveniently ignored part where PS5 dropped to 50? You want me to take screenshot of that part?

Drop to 46 and 50 were only for few seconds. Frame rate was back to normal on both. Dude even on my high end PC i get drops when lot of alpha effects on screen. My frame rate went to 36 during multiple fire flights and my PC beats both next gen console in GPU and cpu.

Also CBR PS5 dropping frames vs Native 4k dropping frames for few seconds. Which is more worse? XD


You would hope PS5 will keep it lock 60 with Cbr but nope.
The game's alpha effects are not optimized for high resolutions. Alpha effect tanks the hardware exponentially more with higher resolution. We saw the same thing happen in Hitman 3.
 

01011001

Banned
HW featureset isn't the same when it comes to CB, so 'same solution' isn't applicable in all scenarios, and writting a new one for a patch would be far too much work.

many games used the same cbr solution on both XOX and Pro, I highly doubt that this game uses some CBR that is especially tailored to the Pro.

and in also pretty sure that their GPUs are basically a match in terms of features
 
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cormack12

Gold Member
Showing the same percentages on screen does not make them any less marketing speak.
I recall such meaningless stats used in many DF videos.

I agree. Ideally they wouldn't be used by anyone at all, but at least having a slide with the numbers there makes it easier to interpret rather than just flashing up numbers on split screens.
 
The game's alpha effects are not optimized for high resolutions. Alpha effect tanks the hardware exponentially more with higher resolution. We saw the same thing happen in Hitman 3.
Yup, effects are set to high quality and with 4k resolution, It hits frame rate hard. Hitman 3 same yeah.
 
Almost native 4K on X, really good checkerboard implementation PS5 and 60fps for all. Aside from the S being stuck at 900p, no fault of the console really just how MS does BC on it, everyone's a winner with a free upgrade 🤷‍♂️
 
PS5 CB is very good on this game, but XSX 2016p native resolution sounds a bit better.

In the video, it's pretty clear the IQ of both is practically identical.

The CB solution displays some dithering effects on high-frequency detail when zoomed in 300%. But the XSX version also has some weird flicker light maps that look awful are more visible during play and it's not really clear what's causing it.

Personally, based on the latter point alone I'd sooner take the PS5 CB solution in a heartbeat.

But PS5 has smoother FPS on stress points. Average performance is 59.6 on PS5 and 58.8 on XSX.

For me it's a trade-off, both have bit advantagens in different points.

The only meaningful advantage XSX seems to have is loading times, but both aren't jarring in that area.

I'd say PS5 is the clear winner from a performance and IQ perspective.
 
Not to be a meme here, but VRR offsets that advantage and makes the .8 frame performance invalid.

I wish Sony would implement it already so everyone could stop crying about frame drops, and more devs would be encouraged to use it to their advantage.

If anything this video shows how little advantage there was to the "next gen" patch, similar to Fallen Order. Xbox was already running these framerates and resolutions
VRR is a good feature. But Microsoft is not giving VRR TVs when you buy a Xbox console.

If i need a DLC to run better, i could buy a RTX 3090 and forget about consoles.
 

levyjl1988

Banned
It doesn't fix Lara's character face model in this game, it was much better in the first game, and not the remastered version, it felt like it was hit with a woke bat or something. Pass.
 

Mr Moose

Member
You conveniently ignored part where PS5 dropped to 50? You want me to take screenshot of that part?

Drop to 46 and 50 were only for few seconds. Frame rate was back to normal on both. Dude even on my high end PC i get drops when lot of alpha effects on screen. My frame rate went to 36 during multiple fire flights and my PC beats both next gen console in GPU and cpu.

Also CBR PS5 dropping frames vs Native 4k dropping frames for few seconds. Which is more worse? XD


You would hope PS5 will keep it lock 60 with Cbr but nope.
Why do you keep saying native 4k?
tenor.gif
 
Drops happen to 46 on SX during one combat scenario when he was trying to stress it. PS5 dropped to 50 during that part as well. Also ,PS5 is using CBR to maintain higher frame rate and SX is native 4k, so drops more but only in 1 or 2 specific scenarios but overall its rock solid 60 on both overall with average 58 on SX and PS5 59.



PS5 even with CBR 4k(half of native 4k) cant maintain locked 60. Whereas SX SX drops more but overall game stable experience at better image quality.
It's not. It's around 2000p. NXgamer says except some areas where we can see the CBR artefacts (mostly Lara's hair) the game looks identical on both consoles.
 

NXGamer

Member
Thank you. His reviews always derail from pure technological objective information to some unnecessary fanboy or bias crap that throws it off or me. DF remains the supreme benchmark of benchmarking console performance. 🤷🏾‍♂️
My problem with his analysis pops up within the first 1 minute and 29 seconds of the video. What's this nonsense about the Series S not having the GPU horsepower to achieve Xbox One X levels of performance, when in fact it can easily achieve, even exceed, that if it wasn't a BC game locked to the Xbox One S code and was instead properly made for the Series S?

Series S is not only capable of what an Xbox One S can do. So if it's locked to Xbox One S code, no amount of GPU power is going to get you Xbox One X levels of performance or visual quality. You listen a little longer, and he literally calls the Series S a console only capable of last gen
If you both watched the video objectively, as I make all my videos, you would hear and see what I explain right at that point. The BC methods here mean the team have to choose between XboxOne Path or X1X and the GPU of the Series S means that could not run the X1X settings at 60fps and would almost certainly perform worse at 30fps that the 1X, so they have to take the 1S path. And, as your only new gen console this does not feel better than the 1X it is objectively worse as you loose the choice and visual fidelity. I DID NOT say this means the Series S is no good, but I AM saying that in this scenario and methods it objectively is only a better experience if you came from the 1S and not the 1X or even the Pro.

Too many see an Objective analysis of a game, tech, engine and then run off with other leaps from that, at the same time as calling me NON objective.

I had the same issue with this on the Checkerboard quality, as I state it is one of the best, unlike Marvel's Avengers that I covered on IGN that was poor and I called it out. Now, according to some comments, I am saying CB is better than anything else including Insomniac TIAA, DLSS etc etc. These off tangent, projecting comments are beyond me.

Stop being so invested in a piece of hardware and just take the reviews and analysis as they are, information and data. Trust me I love hardware, software and technology since I started in the 70s with it and have worked within it for the past 3 decades, but it never rules me or my opinion.
hes been alternating between doing videos for IGN and his own channel.
Yes, I work full time so I struggle to get more than 1.5 - 2 videos a week as I have to fit them in around family and work. If I did this full time my content and quality would be significantly better.
I think NX dropped the ball here doing an avg over a too long a session.

Traversing the forest without anything happening hits 60 easily skewing the result.

During battles the framerate is almost 15-20fps higher on PS5, these are the stress points that affect the gameplay being combat heavy.
Not really, I think this is best as I gain a spread of the game so exploration, combat, cutscenes to give you a holistic view of games overall performance, thankfully this one toned down the combat with more tomb raiding.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Not really, I think this is best as I gain a spread of the game so exploration, combat, cutscenes to give you a holistic view of games overall performance, thankfully this one toned down the combat with more tomb raiding.
Yeah, its shocking how little combat there is in this game. You can literally go hours without running into a combat encounter. The last 1-2 hours are all combat, but id say 80% of the game is puzzles and exploration.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Yeah, its shocking how little combat there is in this game. You can literally go hours without running into a combat encounter. The last 1-2 hours are all combat, but id say 80% of the game is puzzles and exploration.
This sounds like classic Tomb Raider. Or more classic than the other 2 of the reboot.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
This sounds like classic Tomb Raider. Or more classic than the other 2 of the reboot.
you would think but it wasnt. its a walking simulator instead. Older tomb raider had very challenging platforming where you had to line up the jump just correct to make it. Here you are on autopilot like uncharted. its more boring than uncharted 4. puzzles are brain dead too.

the only puzzles that are great are in the optional tombs. the main campaign is full of simple puzzles. its one of the most baffling games ive played. no idea what they were thinking. Combat in Rise was great so they didnt need to nerf it.
 

Shmunter

Member
you would think but it wasnt. its a walking simulator instead. Older tomb raider had very challenging platforming where you had to line up the jump just correct to make it. Here you are on autopilot like uncharted. its more boring than uncharted 4. puzzles are brain dead too.

the only puzzles that are great are in the optional tombs. the main campaign is full of simple puzzles. its one of the most baffling games ive played. no idea what they were thinking. Combat in Rise was great so they didnt need to nerf it.
Likely why combat is the only thing memorable for me. And lines probably blurred with Rise due to the tedium. Only the 1st game was a highlight for me, the 2 sequels just weren’t it.

So close, I just don’t know why they couldn’t bring it over the line. On paper it’s ideal.
 

Allandor

Member
I hate all newer TR games, but this one was free with PS+ some time ago. I might try it again some time.
Well, have fun with it ... it is the worst of the "new" TR games. Stopped playing it after a while. The story is just not good and the gameplay is ... well somehow not as great as the predecessors.

Back to the new patch.
The CB rendering should get a nice boost due to the higher framerate and therefore less ghosting etc.

Nice of them that they patched the game, but it would also be nice if they would also patch the Series S version so it uses at least native 1080p instead of 900p. Should be more than doable and not much more than another small profile.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Likely why combat is the only thing memorable for me. And lines probably blurred with Rise due to the tedium. Only the 1st game was a highlight for me, the 2 sequels just weren’t it.

So close, I just don’t know why they couldn’t bring it over the line. On paper it’s ideal.
I really liked Rise. I dont think its the perfect game, but Shadow felt like a step back.

I also dont know why they go out of their way to make Lara so unlikeable in Shadow. Shes like Abby. Selfish, delusional, with not a single redeeming quality.
 

Shmunter

Member
I really liked Rise. I dont think its the perfect game, but Shadow felt like a step back.

I also dont know why they go out of their way to make Lara so unlikeable in Shadow. Shes like Abby. Selfish, delusional, with not a single redeeming quality.
Just a vanilla safe character - non offensive or something, no idea, so forgettable.

Love or hate, Abby to me at least was well developed and felt human, unlike the 2d Lara.
 

assurdum

Banned
If you both watched the video objectively, as I make all my videos, you would hear and see what I explain right at that point. The BC methods here mean the team have to choose between XboxOne Path or X1X and the GPU of the Series S means that could not run the X1X settings at 60fps and would almost certainly perform worse at 30fps that the 1X, so they have to take the 1S path. And, as your only new gen console this does not feel better than the 1X it is objectively worse as you loose the choice and visual fidelity. I DID NOT say this means the Series S is no good, but I AM saying that in this scenario and methods it objectively is only a better experience if you came from the 1S and not the 1X or even the Pro.

Too many see an Objective analysis of a game, tech, engine and then run off with other leaps from that, at the same time as calling me NON objective.

I had the same issue with this on the Checkerboard quality, as I state it is one of the best, unlike Marvel's Avengers that I covered on IGN that was poor and I called it out. Now, according to some comments, I am saying CB is better than anything else including Insomniac TIAA, DLSS etc etc. These off tangent, projecting comments are beyond me.

Stop being so invested in a piece of hardware and just take the reviews and analysis as they are, information and data. Trust me I love hardware, software and technology since I started in the 70s with it and have worked within it for the past 3 decades, but it never rules me or my opinion.

Yes, I work full time so I struggle to get more than 1.5 - 2 videos a week as I have to fit them in around family and work. If I did this full time my content and quality would be significantly better.

Not really, I think this is best as I gain a spread of the game so exploration, combat, cutscenes to give you a holistic view of games overall performance, thankfully this one toned down the combat with more tomb raiding.
I'd like to have some in deep analysis about CBR because it boggles my mind to see such good CBR in the last TR (even on pro was quite phenomenal) and the shitness show in RDR2 and The Avengers. How the hell is it possible to have such immense difference in quality between different games? I don't get it, it's the same tech in the end.
 
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If you both watched the video objectively, as I make all my videos, you would hear and see what I explain right at that point. The BC methods here mean the team have to choose between XboxOne Path or X1X and the GPU of the Series S means that could not run the X1X settings at 60fps and would almost certainly perform worse at 30fps that the 1X, so they have to take the 1S path. And, as your only new gen console this does not feel better than the 1X it is objectively worse as you loose the choice and visual fidelity. I DID NOT say this means the Series S is no good, but I AM saying that in this scenario and methods it objectively is only a better experience if you came from the 1S and not the 1X or even the Pro.

Too many see an Objective analysis of a game, tech, engine and then run off with other leaps from that, at the same time as calling me NON objective.

I had the same issue with this on the Checkerboard quality, as I state it is one of the best, unlike Marvel's Avengers that I covered on IGN that was poor and I called it out. Now, according to some comments, I am saying CB is better than anything else including Insomniac TIAA, DLSS etc etc. These off tangent, projecting comments are beyond me.

Stop being so invested in a piece of hardware and just take the reviews and analysis as they are, information and data. Trust me I love hardware, software and technology since I started in the 70s with it and have worked within it for the past 3 decades, but it never rules me or my opinion.

You point out the Xbox One S code path initially, but in your analysis you seem to overlook the actual reason for why the Xbox One S code path was chosen. It has less to do with the GPU capability itself, and everything to do with the lower quantity of RAM. Xbox One X games utilize 9GB of RAM for games. The Series S on the faster block of RAM only offers 8GB.

You are right about the experience you are getting in that particular, but you also go further and make some pretty definitive sounding statements that seemingly expand to beyond the analysis of this game regarding the capabilities of the Series S, suggesting it's incapable of offering a better than last gen gaming experience.

There are already games that prove that's false. Series S can do Xbox One X graphics and quality settings while being 60fps if the game was coded specifically to Series S. They just wouldn't target nearly as high a resolution because Series S isn't meant for those higher resolutions. The GPU can actually run Tomb Raider at better than Xbox One X settings, and there are games that already show evidence of this on Series S.

Ori and the Will of the Wisps actually runs at 4K 60fps on Series S. Psychonauts 2 is doing 2880x1620p at 60fps while looking pretty excellent also. I watched the rest of your analysis, and only took issue with some of those early remarks, which seemed to misrepresent what the Series S has shown itself capable of doing. I wasn't being invested in a piece of hardware, but interested in a more complete or accurate accounting on the capabilities of the series s. It is being held back by the bc code base it's running, but properly designed for it is a clearly superior system to a PS4 Pro or Xbox One X, and it would be all too easy for someone who isn't as informed to see an analysis like this and genuinely think a PS4 Pro or Xbox One X are the better systems, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Remember that not everybody who may watch all your videos is aware of certain things or as fully informed. It would have taken but a sentence or two to make sure people wouldn't misinterpret those two last gen consoles, based on this one game running in BC mode, for being superior to an Xbox Series S.
 

NXGamer

Member
You point out the Xbox One S code path initially, but in your analysis you seem to overlook the actual reason for why the Xbox One S code path was chosen. It has less to do with the GPU capability itself, and everything to do with the lower quantity of RAM. Xbox One X games utilize 9GB of RAM for games. The Series S on the faster block of RAM only offers 8GB.

You are right about the experience you are getting in that particular, but you also go further and make some pretty definitive sounding statements that seemingly expand to beyond the analysis of this game regarding the capabilities of the Series S, suggesting it's incapable of offering a better than last gen gaming experience.

There are already games that prove that's false. Series S can do Xbox One X graphics and quality settings while being 60fps if the game was coded specifically to Series S. They just wouldn't target nearly as high a resolution because Series S isn't meant for those higher resolutions. The GPU can actually run Tomb Raider at better than Xbox One X settings, and there are games that already show evidence of this on Series S.

Ori and the Will of the Wisps actually runs at 4K 60fps on Series S. Psychonauts 2 is doing 2880x1620p at 60fps while looking pretty excellent also. I watched the rest of your analysis, and only took issue with some of those early remarks, which seemed to misrepresent what the Series S has shown itself capable of doing. I wasn't being invested in a piece of hardware, but interested in a more complete or accurate accounting on the capabilities of the series s. It is being held back by the bc code base it's running, but properly designed for it is a clearly superior system to a PS4 Pro or Xbox One X, and it would be all too easy for someone who isn't as informed to see an analysis like this and genuinely think a PS4 Pro or Xbox One X are the better systems, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Remember that not everybody who may watch all your videos is aware of certain things or as fully informed. It would have taken but a sentence or two to make sure people wouldn't misinterpret those two last gen consoles, based on this one game running in BC mode, for being superior to an Xbox Series S.
I did not overlook it at all, the GPU/RAM is one in the same and the cause of the S code path they took.
 
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