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Nintendo Confirms That Splatoon 3's Shiver Identifies As Female

93xfan

Member
Theres so many variables that im not going to outright dismiss the chance someone could fall in the middle and not really be sure where they fit. I think by exploring these or letting people explore it themselves we can grow as a society and not be so blocked off. Dure it could be a mental illness but we csnt really get rid of those either so there's gotta be some way to deal with it constructively.

My principal is just to be nice to people. Everything else tends to fall into place beyond that.
IntentionalPun is the result of society " being nice." We wouldn't be in this mess and wouldn't be ruining children's lives if we didn't view "being nice" as the absolute pinnacle of morality. Also, sometimes informing people of facts they won't hear from traditional MSM is nicer than just being agreeable. People need to be as honestly informed as possible.
I've never experienced any sort of dramatic encounter with a non-binary person and I live in Seattle, WA. lol

You are just over-reacting to something to me... and you have overly paranoid thoughts about trans issues as well. For the most part people who transition are happy with it. We should be cautious for sure, for that 3%.. but that's why we have doctors who specialize in talking to kids about this shit, and do not approve transitioning for every kid who wants to. Lots of SCIENCE behind all of that as well, as you know.. the general scientific community does not actually agree with you, despite you apparently being a "part of" that community lol

In the end we all know some people are different as it pertains to gender norms. That's a fact. We for much of history ridiculed these people and it should stop. That's the end of it.. having to call someone "they" is hardly that big of a deal compared to people who've harmed nobody, having to deal with ridicule and sometimes imprisonment or death.
studies show over 80% of people grow out of gender dysphoria and are happy identifying with their biological sex if they are not affirmed or given any kind of treatment (such as cross-sex hormones).

Also, those who start on cross-sex hormones very rarely stop using it.


Thank you for the opportunity for me to post the facts and get it out so others can spread the word. I hope this helps you rethink this topic as well. Also, not sure what "science" you're referring to, but you truly have no case. if you could prove your ideology, this conversation wouldn't need to happen.
 
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AJUMP23

Gold Member
All of Era in front of Nintendo HQ
Gaspar Noe Reaction GIF by Arrow Video
Now we know how that fire started last week.
 

Toons

Member
'Non-binary' does have to do with genitalia though. And this nonsense had spread to language. I call a female 'she/her' and a male 'he/him'. It's to identify what sex they are, which you can't choose.

Psychologically, why the fuck does it matter? Deal with what's there, not this back up rubbish.

These people, including you, are saying what are cultural and social issues are hard science. They aren't. Stop.

No, they are specifically saying that those issues ARENT a hard science.

Saying psychological nuance doesn't matter is how we got to this point in the first place. You cant solve an issue by pretending it isnt there snd hoping it never shows up.
 

Toons

Member
IntentionalPun is the result of society " being nice." We wouldn't be in this mess and wouldn't be ruining children's lives if we didn't view "being nice" as the absolute pinnacle of morality. Also, sometimes informing people of facts they won't hear from traditional MSM is nicer than just being agreeable. People need to be as honestly informed as possible.
Intentionalpun has a point though.. Children's lives were being ruined well before this became an issue. Many were tormented by their confusion. Many were mistreated. Many tried to find release in other things that did them harm.

And no, being kind to others and cordial is always an option. We have incomplete data, and we have only just began to explore this field. Pretending its all settled and cannot be reevaluated is like pretending rhe science of where the sun is relative to the earth wss settled 3000 years ago. It wasn't. Scientists know very little of the mind and the psychological nuances within it. We've not even scratched the surface.

studies show over 80% of people grow out of gender dysphoria and are happy identifying with their biological sex if they are not affirmed or given any kind of treatment (such as cross-sex hormones).

Also, those who start on cross-sex hormones very rarely stop using it.
Thank you for the opportunity for me to post the facts and get it out so others can spread the word. I hope this helps you rethink this topic as well. Also, not sure what "science" you're referring to, but you truly have no case. if you could prove your ideology, this conversation wouldn't need to happen.

I can prove that the studies aren't finalized quite easily actually. That's rhe only thing I have to prove. Many of the seminal psychological strongholds we base alot of the information in the field off of dont hold up under moder scrutiny. We keep them around because its better than nothing, but if you do literally any digging on the subject you'll find we know frighteningly little about matters of identity and psychology in this regard and many others.

You're own study says that 20 percent dont find relief in identifying with their birth gender. That 20 percent is where the discussion lies, obviously.

Dismissing them is not going to solve the issue. Addressing it in a cooperative manner will.
 
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Ladioss

Member
IntentionalPun is the result of society " being nice." We wouldn't be in this mess and wouldn't be ruining children's lives if we didn't view "being nice" as the absolute pinnacle of morality. Also, sometimes informing people of facts they won't hear from traditional MSM is nicer than just being agreeable. People need to be as honestly informed as possible.
"Much of the social history of the Western world over the past three decades has involved replacing what worked with what sounded good."
 

belmarduk

Member
If the developers decided to do this, then more power to them...

but if they were cajoled into it by uhm... members of a certain "gaming" forum into doing this then this is incredibly bad. Those people should not be taken seriously..

and its not like Nintendo hasn't had transgender characters before. Birdo has been around since the 80s I think.
 

supernova8

Member
Dismissing them is not going to solve the issue. Addressing it in a cooperative manner will.

The underlying issue that there is (at least now) no way for a self-defined trans person to prove any of what they are saying. Of course I follow the argument that, in general, a person born as a man would not dress up as a woman and act like a woman, claim to be a woman etc. for their whole life just as a bit of fun considering the social stigma that comes with it. Saying they are "lying" makes no sense.

Even then, I personally cannot make the mental leap. I can say to a "trans woman" that I believe that they believe they are a woman trapped in a man's body but I cannot truthfully say I would view them as a woman in any way at all. To me, with no access to what's going on inside their brain, they still look like a dude dressed up in women's clothes.

I don't think we will get beyond that. We might legally compel people to claim they accept that a trans woman is a woman but I suspect the vast majority of people will not change their minds (which is their right, obviously).
 
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93xfan

Member
Intentionalpun has a point though.. Children's lives were being ruined well before this became an issue. Many were tormented by their confusion. Many were mistreated. Many tried to find release in other things that did them harm.

And no, being kind to others and cordial is always an option. We have incomplete data, and we have only just began to explore this field. Pretending its all settled and cannot be reevaluated is like pretending rhe science of where the sun is relative to the earth wss settled 3000 years ago. It wasn't. Scientists know very little of the mind and the psychological nuances within it. We've not even scratched the surface.
How do you intend to prove a belief in the mind is not only real, but that affirming it is the answer?


I can prove that the studies aren't finalized quite easily actually.
Please do.

That's rhe only thing I have to prove. Many of the seminal psychological strongholds we base alot of the information in the field off of dont hold up under moder scrutiny. We keep them around because its better than nothing, but if you do literally any digging on the subject you'll find we know frighteningly little about matters of identity and psychology in this regard and many others.
Then you agree we should absolutely not push puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones on children? I imagine you at least have that as a line you wouldn't cross considering your admission.
You're own study says that 20 percent dont find relief in identifying with their birth gender. That 20 percent is where the discussion lies, obviously.
Do you believe the 20% would live happily ever after if we were somehow able to identify just that portion of the population and give them cross-sex hormones and puberty blockers (as well as surgeries in some cases)? suicide rates are still very high among that group.

Dismissing them is not going to solve the issue. Addressing it in a cooperative manner will.
I feel you're dismissing them by just pumping them full of off-label drugs and calling it a solution. I believe it is better to treat the mind rather than pump off-label drugs into children or mutilating healthy flesh. They absolutely need help, not just an easy solution that enriches pharmaceutical companies.

This article debunks the misleading "would you rather have a dead son or a living trans-daughter" argument as stats don't back it up.
 

Toons

Member
The underlying issue that there is (at least now) no way for a self-defined trans person to prove any of what they are saying. Of course I follow the argument that, in general, a person born as a man would not dress up as a woman and act like a woman, claim to be a woman etc. for their whole life just as a bit of fun considering the social stigma that comes with it. Saying they are "lying" makes no sense.

Even then, I personally cannot make the mental leap. I can say to a "trans woman" that I believe that they believe they are a woman trapped in a man's body but I cannot truthfully say I would view them as a woman in any way at all. To me, with no access to what's going on inside their brain, they still look like a dude dressed up in women's clothes.

I don't think we will get beyond that. We might legally compel people to claim they accept that a trans woman is a woman but I suspect the vast majority of people will not change their minds (which is their right, obviously).

Well, time well tell on that regard.
 

Tangerine

Member
This future is comedy gold.
It is so far in a sort of fuck everything, society is doomed, clown 🤡 world way...

Agreed.

But increasingly I keep seeing escalating dangerous rhetoric and worrying social trends and social contagion. Along with the further polarisation and splitting up of society because the radical left keep lowering the bar for what is socially acceptable.

Ten, twenty years ago no one would be stumped at the question what is a woman or do woman have penises? I doubt many would have predicted just how fractured the West is today. It's worrying but equally if we don't laugh we'd probably cry. 🤡

You need only look at how many school children in liberal democrat ran areas, identify as being someone within the LGBT community vs more conservative school districts. Anyone who says young children can give consent, we as a rational society should be very sceptical of their motives and agenda. If they can consent to life altering medical procedures often irreversible, with their young underdeveloped minds what else can they consent to? Larping as strippers at a drag events? Check. Kids are being groomed by the left... That's a fact and anyone who disagrees doesn't know what grooming is defined as, or they have no idea what's actually going on, or they think the ends justify the means which is a common belief amongst the left. In this case they have convinced themselves they are on the sides of these poor poor kids who can't be themselves because of how bigoted society is.

The radical left are a danger to children and it's socially acceptable even. It's becoming less so but that's only because a bright light has been shun on a festering wound, a lot recently... and I'm not talking about a botched child sex change operation! I'm making an analogy, duh!

Children are being groomed to be loyal foot soldiers of the new regime. This is happening today in the USA and other so called 'developed' countries. If they are able to be plonked into the LGBT community that's great in these degenerate adults minds. The kids were always this way and it's only thanks to the lefts openness and inclusiveness that these kids can be free to express themselves. They fail to see how impressionable children are. Or conveniently choose not to see it. People are capable of justifying a lot of bad shit.

There's push back thankfully, but anyone center left, center, center right and right wing are being demonised and painted to be the enemy. Blamed for endangering vulnerable kids by refusing to affirm their identities. Projection much? The real danger is often in the classroom out of the sights and minds of the parents.

The left don't care about your kids wellbeing, they care about weaponising them against their political adversaries. They have to go after other people's kids too since the left is increasingly sterilising themselves.

If they cared about children they would leave them be; include their parents in school discussion if there's any issue and they certainly wouldn't entertain the notion of giving young kids the autonomy to make life altering decisions when chances are they will grow out of feeling the way they claim to feel now, as they grow older and their brain develops more.

How much of this is kids wanting to fit in and please their teachers and or their peers and or their liberal parents who so desperately want to be accepting and accepted by their liberal friends, but in reality they are often so open minded with how they raise their kids, they have figuratively let their brains fall out...it's that open!

It's a destructive ideology. It destroys family and togetherness, specifically heterosexual relationships are looked down upon, along with the traditional nuclear family. It destroys community, it destroys children mentally and physically with non essential surgery, dangerous rhetoric and drug prescriptions. It destroys trust in each other and ultimately it will destroy the west. That last point is a prediction based on all the cracks already appearing.

We know people will sit back and not take action out of fear of retaliation, or their address being published online, their employers being harassed, losing their jobs, activists turning up to protest on their doorsteps etc. etc. What's worse is this is usually allowed to occur too, and if it turns into a riot they will be let off the hook if caught by police. This breeds further anamocity as people outside of the lefts bubble feel unfairly treated... Because it's not a level playing ground.

We are having all this pushed upon us in my opinion, to weaken the west and to keep us distracted from other things such as the fact our sitting president has Alzheimer's, or how bad the economy is, or foriegn wars or biden's corruption, or child sex trafficking among elites, or the border crisis. I could go on.

The non binary stuff is just part of a larger problem in society that includes grooming kids from a young age to change their gender, to view words as violence, people not entirely on their side as Nazis etc.

So I appreciate Nintendo, so far at least, not folding to these garbage people...but theres still time I guess :(

So this is why I personally don't want to give that crowd an inch. Non binary is just a symptom of a larger societal illness and that illness does often progress further.

Malignant. Militant. Equivalent, ambivalent. Shine a light on it, illuminate that shit. Don't give an inch, they'll take a mile. Also they are probs a pedophile. Word ;)
 

NeoIkaruGAF

Gold Member
A thread like this about a character from any other company’s game would have 5x the posts and not be 1/5th as deep as the last two pages. Nintendo’s resource management is indeed masterful.
 

Filben

Member
Make some gay/non-binary/minority characters that are villains, assholes, hubristic/overconfident authority figures, or morally ambiguous.
The film The Power of the Dog got it right. Amazing film and great performance by Cumberbatch who played a gay nasty motherfucker just brilliantly; also highly plot-relevant. Do recommend.
 

Majukun

Member
No I'm not. I'm getting sick of snowflakes getting catered while this impacts the narrative to a point that it feels forced.
It kills the fun of a game if it's a tacked on social aspect just for the sake of inclusiveness.

Let the whiners whine and the gamers game.

TLOU2 is a good example of fitting sexuality. A girl who finds out she's a Lesbian. No problems with that.

Splatoon is a prime example of needless gender fluidity/ identity. It feels forced and add nothing to the experience.
Yeah, it adds irritations.

It's a simple matter of 1 word: CONTEXT.
And in Splatoons context, gender identification is straight up horseshit.
I see it in the opposite direction.
the fastest we get over the idea that sexual orientation is so incredibly important that must be the center of a character or his/her/their story if it differs from the norm, the faster we can get over it and realise that much like other single aspects of a person, it doesn't define their whole being.
while making a story about a girl discovering her sexuality can be interesting, i'm perfectly ok with someone just already being outside of the majority, being content with it, and moving along.
and since lgbtq+ exist in our world, it's a perfectly valid choice to assign on a character if the writer decides...especially japanese devs that have non binary characters in their games since the 90ies...nintendo has them since effin'Birdo.

is it token representation for the sake of it?sure
does that make the game worse or better just by being there?I fail to see how
 

MacReady13

Member
Who gives a FUCK? It's a video game character! They had to get this confirmed from someone at Nintendo??? Christ almighty we live in some fucked up times. And people try to tell me gaming is better today than in the 90's?!
 

Soodanim

Member
I see it in the opposite direction.
the fastest we get over the idea that sexual orientation is so incredibly important that must be the center of a character or his/her/their story if it differs from the norm, the faster we can get over it and realise that much like other single aspects of a person, it doesn't define their whole being.
while making a story about a girl discovering her sexuality can be interesting, i'm perfectly ok with someone just already being outside of the majority, being content with it, and moving along.
and since lgbtq+ exist in our world, it's a perfectly valid choice to assign on a character if the writer decides...especially japanese devs that have non binary characters in their games since the 90ies...nintendo has them since effin'Birdo.

is it token representation for the sake of it?sure
does that make the game worse or better just by being there?I fail to see how
I largely agree, and just another detail is how things should be. But in response to the final question: poor writing is how it can be an issue. I don't speak for everyone, but it's the same as in real life: if an immutable characteristic about yourself is the primary aspect of your personality, you're just not that interesting.
 

Scotty W

Gold Member
It is so far in a sort of fuck everything, society is doomed, clown 🤡 world way...

Agreed.

But increasingly I keep seeing escalating dangerous rhetoric and worrying social trends and social contagion. Along with the further polarisation and splitting up of society because the radical left keep lowering the bar for what is socially acceptable.

Ten, twenty years ago no one would be stumped at the question what is a woman or do woman have penises? I doubt many would have predicted just how fractured the West is today. It's worrying but equally if we don't laugh we'd probably cry. 🤡

You need only look at how many school children in liberal democrat ran areas, identify as being someone within the LGBT community vs more conservative school districts. Anyone who says young children can give consent, we as a rational society should be very sceptical of their motives and agenda. If they can consent to life altering medical procedures often irreversible, with their young underdeveloped minds what else can they consent to? Larping as strippers at a drag events? Check. Kids are being groomed by the left... That's a fact and anyone who disagrees doesn't know what grooming is defined as, or they have no idea what's actually going on, or they think the ends justify the means which is a common belief amongst the left. In this case they have convinced themselves they are on the sides of these poor poor kids who can't be themselves because of how bigoted society is.

The radical left are a danger to children and it's socially acceptable even. It's becoming less so but that's only because a bright light has been shun on a festering wound, a lot recently... and I'm not talking about a botched child sex change operation! I'm making an analogy, duh!

Children are being groomed to be loyal foot soldiers of the new regime. This is happening today in the USA and other so called 'developed' countries. If they are able to be plonked into the LGBT community that's great in these degenerate adults minds. The kids were always this way and it's only thanks to the lefts openness and inclusiveness that these kids can be free to express themselves. They fail to see how impressionable children are. Or conveniently choose not to see it. People are capable of justifying a lot of bad shit.

There's push back thankfully, but anyone center left, center, center right and right wing are being demonised and painted to be the enemy. Blamed for endangering vulnerable kids by refusing to affirm their identities. Projection much? The real danger is often in the classroom out of the sights and minds of the parents.

The left don't care about your kids wellbeing, they care about weaponising them against their political adversaries. They have to go after other people's kids too since the left is increasingly sterilising themselves.

If they cared about children they would leave them be; include their parents in school discussion if there's any issue and they certainly wouldn't entertain the notion of giving young kids the autonomy to make life altering decisions when chances are they will grow out of feeling the way they claim to feel now, as they grow older and their brain develops more.

How much of this is kids wanting to fit in and please their teachers and or their peers and or their liberal parents who so desperately want to be accepting and accepted by their liberal friends, but in reality they are often so open minded with how they raise their kids, they have figuratively let their brains fall out...it's that open!

It's a destructive ideology. It destroys family and togetherness, specifically heterosexual relationships are looked down upon, along with the traditional nuclear family. It destroys community, it destroys children mentally and physically with non essential surgery, dangerous rhetoric and drug prescriptions. It destroys trust in each other and ultimately it will destroy the west. That last point is a prediction based on all the cracks already appearing.

We know people will sit back and not take action out of fear of retaliation, or their address being published online, their employers being harassed, losing their jobs, activists turning up to protest on their doorsteps etc. etc. What's worse is this is usually allowed to occur too, and if it turns into a riot they will be let off the hook if caught by police. This breeds further anamocity as people outside of the lefts bubble feel unfairly treated... Because it's not a level playing ground.

We are having all this pushed upon us in my opinion, to weaken the west and to keep us distracted from other things such as the fact our sitting president has Alzheimer's, or how bad the economy is, or foriegn wars or biden's corruption, or child sex trafficking among elites, or the border crisis. I could go on.

The non binary stuff is just part of a larger problem in society that includes grooming kids from a young age to change their gender, to view words as violence, people not entirely on their side as Nazis etc.

So I appreciate Nintendo, so far at least, not folding to these garbage people...but theres still time I guess :(

So this is why I personally don't want to give that crowd an inch. Non binary is just a symptom of a larger societal illness and that illness does often progress further.

Malignant. Militant. Equivalent, ambivalent. Shine a light on it, illuminate that shit. Don't give an inch, they'll take a mile. Also they are probs a pedophile. Word ;)

You seem to be labouring under a common misapprehension: that this movement is being driven by well intentioned people who are making unfortunate mistakes.

There are people like this. Useful idiots. But they are not driving it. The drivers are Leninists and Maoists who want to destroy society by creating as much chaos as possible in order to seize power/set the stage for their utopian fantasy.

 

yurinka

Member
Ok, I don't care.

I wonder if now someone is going to cancel Nintendo for representing non-binary people as squids xD

I though about the same joke but binario is rail or track in english, not binary...
Binario is the Spanish word for binary
 

Tams

Member
I see it in the opposite direction.
the fastest we get over the idea that sexual orientation is so incredibly important that must be the center of a character or his/her/their story if it differs from the norm, the faster we can get over it and realise that much like other single aspects of a person, it doesn't define their whole being.
while making a story about a girl discovering her sexuality can be interesting, i'm perfectly ok with someone just already being outside of the majority, being content with it, and moving along.
and since lgbtq+ exist in our world, it's a perfectly valid choice to assign on a character if the writer decides...especially japanese devs that have non binary characters in their games since the 90ies...nintendo has them since effin'Birdo.

is it token representation for the sake of it?sure
does that make the game worse or better just by being there?I fail to see how
That's not the issue here though.

This is about people having tantrums because what they assumed to be the case wasn't.
 
I wasn't gonna go to work today due to the weight of oppression I feel due to my gender identity, but this gave me the strength to carry on realizing I'll be represented by this cartoon squid character, thank you Nintendo.

#endbigotry
#genderisaspectrum
#silenceisviolence
 

Fuz

Member
studies show over 80% of people grow out of gender dysphoria and are happy identifying with their biological sex if they are not affirmed or given any kind of treatment (such as cross-sex hormones).

Also, those who start on cross-sex hormones very rarely stop using it.
Source?
 
I see it in the opposite direction.
the fastest we get over the idea that sexual orientation is so incredibly important that must be the center of a character or his/her/their story if it differs from the norm, the faster we can get over it and realise that much like other single aspects of a person, it doesn't define their whole being.
while making a story about a girl discovering her sexuality can be interesting, i'm perfectly ok with someone just already being outside of the majority, being content with it, and moving along.
and since lgbtq+ exist in our world, it's a perfectly valid choice to assign on a character if the writer decides...especially japanese devs that have non binary characters in their games since the 90ies...nintendo has them since effin'Birdo.

is it token representation for the sake of it?sure
does that make the game worse or better just by being there?I fail to see how

Most people want to be treated as normal. The way to normalize it is to not berate it, but also not treat it as anything special (at least to traditional LGBT, nonbinary simply doesn't and has never existed).

These mentally ill dumbasses just want attention and to be treated specially. Don't give them the time of day.
 
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