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[maniac-kun]

so nintendo complains that countrys with lots of poor people pirate games and ask the governments to fix the economy so they can sell their games :lol

 

[Fewr]

Well as a mexican gamer i think Nintendo is partially to blame, you know there's a problem when the cheapest console to manufacture is more expensive
than an Xbox 360 and the games follow the same path. MS has it right here in mexico i think, the games they publish are always the cheapest out of the 3 consoles
, still more expensive than in the US go figure and they also launch their games the same day they do in the US which is a big factor or people to pirate sometimes.

Nintendo games are usually the most expensive out of the 3 companies and a Wii sells for around $400 USD when you can buy a 360 for less than $300.

I used to buy pirate games, mainly Winning Eleven games on the PS2 when they werent released in America or were released at a much later date, that was years ago and i still managed to own over 60 original PS2 games. Today i own a 360 and a PS3 and 0 pirate games.

Piracy is huge in mexico and it's sold right on the street for all to see, i'm sure most police men buy pirate movies every day as well as music Cd's cause it's just so openly done by everybody that people just don't think of it as something wrong.
Personally i buy everything at retail or import from the US but of course i'm in the minority here but still it's not only a money issue, those with the money to buy a console these days sure have enough money to buy at least a couple of games a year.

Same (re: situation and thoughts).
Although I never bothered to buy a PS2 (I stuck to my gamecute), and I own a wii and a 360.
Is there PSN store for mexicans/latams yet?

 

[iFootball]

... Base my decisions on the moral code of someone who has access to a lot of disposable income in a country where games are ten-a-penny?...

...Of course not. So why the hell should we force our values on them? This is a global market and sometimes parts of the globe just don't fit the mould.

Dude... this not about where you live, or about forcing 'national' values over other people's countries... these moral choices\values are very simple...

I come from one of the countries mentioned in the thread... my familiy had no money for videogames and my parents taught me that piracy was wrong... so we didn't get games.. as simple as that, we would not have such a luxury item... why should I follow my (as you call it) country's mould? follow what everyone else is doing? it was a matter of a simple answer to: is it wrong or not?

Piracy is huge in mexico and it's sold right on the street for all to see, i'm sure most police men buy pirate movies every day as well as music Cd's cause it's just so openly done by everybody that people just don't think of it as something wrong...

that's exactly what I meant....

 

[alterno69]

Same (re: situation and thoughts).
Although I never bothered to buy a PS2 (I stuck to my gamecute), and I own a wii and a 360.
Is there PSN store for mexicans/latams yet?

There is a Mexican PSN since late last year but it SUCKS, first of all it doesn't accept ANY credit cards so you have to buy PSN cards which in my case are only available online trough SONY Style Mexico and they are priced the same as in the US. Also the content on the store is like from 2 years ago except for CAPCOM games and SONY first party like LBP DLC, other than that you can't buy games like Flower, Noby Noby Boy, and many third party games available on the US PSN store since last year.

 

[drizzle]

I love the bitter tears, when my country (Chile) isn't named.

That's because Chile is the only fucking place in South America that has it right.
Games there are CHEAPER than USA. Because the citizens of the country have less money to buy stuff.

I can tell that from personal experience, since a friend got a Arcade 360 from Chile (since his went 3rl) and it was cheaper than an Arcade (well, i don't know the new name) in America.

You have a proper Tax Plan. Hell, even Sony sells their consoles down there officially.

this 'mentality' is exactly the problem... even if it's complicated, or even expensive to get the games you want, it is still not enough to excuse yourself from piracy... that's the cultural problem... we're willing to excuse piracy, or tax evasion (which, btw... even if its unfair to pay such a high tax... it's still ilegal)...

I'm not saying it's right or excusable. I'm saying that it's easily obtainable. What do you think the regular citizen is going to do, when he can either import a game and pay taxes on top of it, or go to the next corner and buy a pirate copy of the same game for 2,50 usd?

I don't agree with piracy, i think whoever lives in a decent country (the states, for instance, where you can go to a fucking best buy and buy whichever game you want for 60 bucks, or if you want a couple months, you can get the same game for half price) doesn't have an excuse to pirate it.

If you live in Brazil, even if you wanted to buy, you can't, because it's not available. You'd have to import it, and pay taxes on top of it. And the thing that pisses me off the most is that the excuse for those taxes is to protect the national industry. Like we produce videogames.

I do that. I go through the trouble of importing, paying taxes, waiting two months to play a game. Most of my friends rather go to a torrent site and download Street Fighter IV in 2 hours, burn and play. And then they call me an idiot for not doing it, because the only option is importing, waiting and probably paying taxes for it. And when you think about it, i am kind of an idiot.

It's more about accessibility than the actual price.

I could go on and on about this, but it wouldn't really change your mind. Piracy is wrong, but I can easily see why people go for it on places where the product you want is simply NOT AVAILABLE.

 

[jax (old)]

I don't don't see how any of this is nintendo's fault (as some people have said) - the comments about brazil = I didn't know that. Wow. Just wow. Snowflake's chance in hell I guess.

 

[thomaser]

Yea, odd that Spain got singled out there even being a big market already. I guess Nintendo lawyers are missing some draconic DMCA style copyright laws there or something?

Not weird at all - I sell Nintendo games in Norway, and it happens pretty often that people come in saying that "I got this game for half the price in Spain on my vacation, and it had 101 other games on it too!". Places like Bulgaria, Turkey and Greece are bad too, but Spain is definitely the piracy hotspot in Europe.

 

[iFootball]

....I could go on and on about this, but it wouldn't really change your mind. Piracy is wrong, but I can easily see why people go for it on places where the product you want is simply NOT AVAILABLE.

Actually, I totally understand what you're saying... people do it because, well, its much easier and cheaper... I was only pointing out that people have to realize that stuff like this becomes a vicious cycle... the choices they make have a larger, negative effect than they realize.... hopefully one by one they realize that it's wrong and stop doing it, even if they're called 'idiots' by their neighbors

 

[TunaLover]

That's because Chile is the only fucking place in South America that has it right.
Games there are CHEAPER than USA. Because the citizens of the country have less money to buy stuff.

:lol please tell me what retailer has those prices.

There something wrong, when the most affordable retailer in Chile has SSBB, Zelda TP, MP3, Tenchu 4, WiiMusic, 007 QUANTUM OF SOLACE, ToS2, etc... at 80usd each. So no, USA has the best prices in America.

 

[Allan Holdsworth]

Actually, I totally understand what you're saying... people do it because, well, its much easier and cheaper... I was only pointing out that people have to realize that stuff like this becomes a vicious cycle... the choices they make have a larger, negative effect than they realize.... hopefully one by one they realize that it's wrong and stop doing it, even if they're called 'idiots' by their neighbors

Never gonna happen... unless the government decides to lower the insane taxes, bringing the prices down.

:lol please tell me what retailer has those prices.

There something wrong, when the most affordable retailer in Chile has SSBB, Zelda TP, MP3, Tenchu 4, WiiMusic, 007 QUANTUM OF SOLACE, ToS2, etc... at 80usd each. So no, USA has the best prices in America.

But it's still the best place in South America as far as video game pricing goes.
Plus, how much is the tax for importing (from a website, for example)? I've read 17%, pretty reasonable. I would be importing everything :lol
Here in Argentina it's 50% (over 25USD), Brazil is 60%.

I'm not saying it's right or excusable. I'm saying that it's easily obtainable. What do you think the regular citizen is going to do, when he can either import a game and pay taxes on top of it, or go to the next corner and buy a pirate copy of the same game for 2,50 usd?

I don't agree with piracy, i think whoever lives in a decent country (the states, for instance, where you can go to a fucking best buy and buy whichever game you want for 60 bucks, or if you want a couple months, you can get the same game for half price) doesn't have an excuse to pirate it.

If you live in Brazil, even if you wanted to buy, you can't, because it's not available. You'd have to import it, and pay taxes on top of it. And the thing that pisses me off the most is that the excuse for those taxes is to protect the national industry. Like we produce videogames.

I do that. I go through the trouble of importing, paying taxes, waiting two months to play a game. Most of my friends rather go to a torrent site and download Street Fighter IV in 2 hours, burn and play. And then they call me an idiot for not doing it, because the only option is importing, waiting and probably paying taxes for it. And when you think about it, i am kind of an idiot.

It's more about accessibility than the actual price.

I could go on and on about this, but it wouldn't really change your mind. Piracy is wrong, but I can easily see why people go for it on places where the product you want is simply NOT AVAILABLE.

Yeah, it's really a hassle to buy legit games. I don't blame anyone that goes the piracy route, which is like 95% of the market.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

I'm really not sure why Nintendo bothered mentioning Spain. As mentioned not only does the country have a specific "piracy/blank media" tax for these purposes, but the bigger issue is that the DMCA is only applicable to the United States. [n]It's currently legal for personal backup device usage in Spain.[/b]

In sum: Nintendo can eat it.

But we all know that they dont use it for that purpose.
Know what im talking as im spanish, and piracy here is fucking disgusting.
You can blame companies that bring the games in horredous condition, in english (thanks Proein for bringing us Persona 3 and Chrono Trigger in english) or simply not bringing them, not Nintendo that is one of the only ones that do an excellent job when bringing games.
Even they angered with Capcom because they didnt want to bring the Phoenix Wright games in spanish and at the end thanks to them we have them in our language.

so nintendo complains that countrys with lots of poor people pirate games and ask the governments to fix the economy so they can sell their games :lol

Spanish is not poor, is just fucking lazy and opportunist. The people that pirate the games here have the money to buy them, but we are a country that thinks that the games dont worth the money, better spend in parties, drugs and alcohol. At least 65% percent opf the people.

 

[drizzle]

:lol please tell me what retailer has those prices.

There something wrong, when the most affordable retailer in Chile has SSBB, Zelda TP, MP3, Tenchu 4, WiiMusic, 007 QUANTUM OF SOLACE, ToS2, etc... at 80usd each. So no, USA has the best prices in America.

Well, then i got my information wrong.

Doesn't matter tho. The fact that you can actually buy the games there is already leaps and bounds better than anything anywhere else in South America.

If you count on the rumoured 17% taxes on imported stuff Allan Holdsworth just mentioned... you're in no position to pirate or complain about prices.

 

[Burai]

I come from one of the countries mentioned in the thread... my familiy had no money for videogames and my parents taught me that piracy was wrong

"Son, can you come into the kitchen please?"

"What is it dad?"

"Your mom found this tape in your bag."

"That's not mi-"

"Don't lie to me! This is your copy of OutRun for the Commodore 64 on a C90! Mrs. Gordon across the street saw you playing it! What have I told you about software piracy?!"

"That it's wrong... That it hurts developers..."

"Yes! That's right. I can't believe that you, my own son would bring this... this FILTH into my house. And now look! You've made your mother cry!"

Just no. Parents teach you the facts of life, they don't teach you to respect copyrights.

 

[WinFonda]

Nintendo wants the US government to pressure those countries over video game piracy? wat..

I'm guessing this will fall on deaf ears. The US only cares about piracy of movies and music because their business overseas is more intrinsic to the US economy. Helping Nintendo on this really only helps... Nintendo.

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Spain is mostly likely cited because of the ChipSpain fiasco.

Basically that website installs and sells chips (even consoles with chips already installed) and flash carts and all that, they got sued, game industry claimed victory, justice said it was all legal.

Game industry whines and whines.

FULL RESOLUTION (in spanish):
http://download.elotrolado.net/varios/sentencia_chips.pdf

Spanish links about this case:
http://www.elotrolado.net/noticia_l...a-legalidad-de-los-modchips-actualizada_14512
http://www.lasprovincias.es/valenci...iencia-valencia-considera-legal-20080312.html
http://www.elmundo.es/navegante/2008/03/11/juegos/1205235558.html
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/Pant...re/consolas/elpeputec/20080312elpepirtv_4/Tes
http://www.abc.es/20080312/tecnologia-juegos/instalar-chips-videoconsolas-para_200803120244.html

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

Spain is mostly likely cited because of the ChipSpain fiasco.

Basically that website installs and sells chips (even consoles with chips already installed) and flash carts and all that, they got sued, game industry claimed victory, justice said it was all legal.

Game industry whines and whines.

FULL RESOLUTION (in spanish):
http://download.elotrolado.net/varios/sentencia_chips.pdf

Spanish links about this case:
http://www.elotrolado.net/noticia_l...a-legalidad-de-los-modchips-actualizada_14512
http://www.lasprovincias.es/valenci...iencia-valencia-considera-legal-20080312.html
http://www.elmundo.es/navegante/2008/03/11/juegos/1205235558.html
http://www.elpais.com/articulo/Pant...re/consolas/elpeputec/20080312elpepirtv_4/Tes
http://www.abc.es/20080312/tecnologia-juegos/instalar-chips-videoconsolas-para_200803120244.html

The thing is that here people dont use it, lets say, for playing things like Mother 3.
If in Spain you are not into piracy you are not normal, and for the eyes of them you are an idiot.
Sad but true.

 

[JonathanEx]

I thought copyright was the right to copy?

 

[666]

But the best things in life are often for free, right?

 

[dreamcastmaster]

"Son, can you come into the kitchen please?"

"What is it dad?"

"Your mom found this tape in your bag."

"That's not mi-"

"Don't lie to me! This is your copy of OutRun for the Commodore 64 on a C90! Mrs. Gordon across the street saw you playing it! What have I told you about software piracy?!"

"That it's wrong... That it hurts developers..."

"Yes! That's right. I can't believe that you, my own son would bring this... this FILTH into my house. And now look! You've made your mother cry!"

Just no. Parents teach you the facts of life, they don't teach you to respect copyrights.

That's funny but, there have been big enough campaigns about video piracy, look at the warning about fines by the FBI at the start of DVD's. I'm sure a lot of people think they could get in trouble for have a pirate copy of some media. It's not that far fetched.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

That tax doesn't apply to software. Nintendo doesn't get any money for that.

It should considering it's supposed to be a blank media/piracy tax. Nintendo should be hitting up the SGAE, not pulling this kind of stunt.

I'm firmly against all piracy, but I'm even more aghast at horrible anti-consumer laws such as the DMCA spreading out of America (and it should be killed there too).

But we all know that they dont use it for that purpose.
Know what im talking as im spanish, and piracy here is fucking disgusting.
You can blame companies that bring the games in horredous condition, in english (thanks Proein for bringing us Persona 3 and Chrono Trigger in english) or simply not bringing them, not Nintendo that is one of the only ones that do an excellent job when bringing games.
Even they angered with Capcom because they didnt want to bring the Phoenix Wright games in spanish and at the end thanks to them we have them in our language.

This is also a problem, and I'd never advocate piracy as a solution.

Spanish is not poor, is just fucking lazy and opportunist. The people that pirate the games here have the money to buy them, but we are a country that thinks that the games dont worth the money, better spend in parties, drugs and alcohol. At least 65% percent opf the people.

That doesn't give companies the right or reason to pursue anti-consumer laws and practices though.

 

[Cheerilee]

Spanish is not poor, is just fucking lazy and opportunist. The people that pirate the games here have the money to buy them, but we are a country that thinks that the games dont worth the money, better spend in parties, drugs and alcohol. At least 65% percent opf the people.

Copyright was a gift that society gave to artists. So if a society is lazy and opportunist, does that mean they can choose to stop giving that gift? Is that wrong? The computer age gave people enough power to make it happen, but the entertainment industry is fighting tooth-and-nail to make sure it not only doesn't, but never can. It seems wrong to me for the entertainment industry to be pissing people off instead of thanking us. And it seems wrong for the people who actually want to give artists the money they deserve to be trying to force their beliefs on others.

I proudly pay for my own games, and DVDs, and CDs, but I also enjoy many side benefits of piracy, and if piracy were to be wiped out/crippled, all I see is that the world would be a lot darker for a lot of people, some major corporations would line their pockets a little bit more, and I personally would miss out on some things. I don't believe that an end to piracy and the increased profits that would result from it would actually give me things like selection and pricing that the entertainment industry loves to promise. I actually think it would get worse on both counts. Heck, I'm not even sure that the entertainment industry would see increased profits resulting from the death of piracy.

 

[t3nmilez]

Korea is a crazy place, people have the mindset that it's their right to pirate games and buying legit software is a stupid decision. Probably similar in other Asian countries like HK and Taiwan. I remember Singapore used to be a big piracy city but then the government finally decided to fight it, I guess they've been pretty successful with it.

Games in Asia are definitely cheaper than the States though, I remember that a brand new 360 game was HKD $300 in Hong Kong, which is around $40USD or something. I guess lowering the price is good incentive to purchase legit software, but I don't think I saw a single DS that didn't have a MicroSD card in it.

 

[DDayton]

I think that a reasonable amount of piracy is profitable all in all.

Hah.

Hahahahah....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA....

(sniffle)

Yes, yes, piracy is good for software sales. Of course! Silly me to think otherwise...

 

[mclem]

Videogames fall into the gambling bracket of taxes. ANY Game has a 150% tax added to it.

I've read this several times and I just can't get my head around it. What about gameplay constitutes gambling? Can you apply to the Brazilian government for a rebate if you complete a game? Do the Wiis there *REALLY* print money?

 

[iFootball]

... Just no. Parents teach you the facts of life, they don't teach you to respect copyrights.

they're supposed to teach you how to distinguish between good and bad, let you make your own decisions, and be accountable for them

 

[gutter_trash]

Re, pirates, Spain
Spaniard Zombie Pirates...

Cervantes!

 

[ypo]

Nintendo actually want people from these countries to buy $50 USD games when the average income is below $200? lol

 

[kottila]

Nintendo actually want people from these countries to buy $50 USD games when the average income is below $200? lol

I knew Spain had some financial issues, but I didn't know that they were in such a poor condition

 

[M3d10n]

they're supposed to teach you how to distinguish between good and bad, let you make your own decisions, and be accountable for them

This talk leads to nowhere. Are you proposing the solution for the problem being that the entire population stop playing pirated games based on sheer goodwill? That's unrealistic. If that were possible, crime, car accidents and home violence could also cease instantly, by just having everyone stop doing it solely because it's wrong.

In Brazil both the tax and the lack of punishment are issues, yes. But Nintendo isn't going anywhere sitting around and writing open letters.

- Nintendo's products would be cheaper if they had proper offices and handled their own games instead of relying on simple import distributors, which have to buy their games from overseas retail. They would be much less taxed if they only imported the discs and cart chips themselves and produced all the rest locally (Microsoft does this and their games are cheaper than PS3 and Wii games).

- Without proper business representation they have no weight to ask the police to seize illegal Nintendo games and accessories from market. Many brick-n-mortar "game shops" which have walls layered with pirated PS2 games don't carry 360 games because quite a few of them were fined for it before.

- The Brazilian government isn't too keen on helping companies which only seek to dump their wares around and take the loot back home without contributing to anything. I'm not talking about taxes: if Nintendo wants to be backed by the government they better translate the shit out of their products into Portuguese, incentive local industry (lend devkits to education institutions) and use as much local production facilities as possible (PC games are the only games which are actually cheaper here than overseas: because the fucking discs are pressed locally instead of imported).

 

[Atreides]

It should considering it's supposed to be a blank media/piracy tax. Nintendo should be hitting up the SGAE, not pulling this kind of stunt.

The problem is that it's not supposed to be a piracy tax. It's supposed to be a (this is a literal translation) "private copy tax". And that doesn't apply to software. Of course, it really is a piracy tax, but they can't call it that way, because it would be ilegal.

 

[lucablight]

Someone please think of the children

 

[Yoshi]

Nintendo actually want people from these countries to buy $50 USD games when the average income is below $200? lol

Either that or not to play the games? It's OK not to have the money to pay for a game - but playing it anyway is not ok. And I'm saying this besides being quite left-winged...

 

[polyh3dron]

No system is secure.


.

except for the PS3

 

[M3d10n]

Either that or not to play the games? It's OK not to have the money to pay for a game - but playing it anyway is not ok. And I'm saying this besides being quite left-winged...

You're better off teaching kids about abstinence. As long as it's easily accessible and low-risk they'll do it anyway.

 

[Vagabundo]

Hah.

Hahahahah....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA....

(sniffle)

Yes, yes, piracy is good for software sales. Of course! Silly me to think otherwise...

There are studies to back this up.

 

[iFootball]

This talk leads to nowhere.

Agreed!

Are you proposing the solution for the problem being that the entire population stop playing pirated games based on sheer goodwill? That's unrealistic. If that were possible, crime, car accidents and home violence could also cease instantly, by just having everyone stop doing it solely because it's wrong.

Im just saying... 1) we're part of the problem, people need to acknowledge this and not blame it 100% on other factors... 2)cultural background in my country of origin makes it worse, 'goodwilll' is going down the drain...

In Brazil both the tax and the lack of punishment are issues, yes. But Nintendo isn't going anywhere sitting around and writing open letters.

Agreed... it's obvious this greedy company sees every pirate copy as a possible sale, but it's totally unrealistic in countries like these.

- Nintendo's products would be cheaper if they had proper offices and handled their own games instead of relying on simple import distributors, which have to buy their games from overseas retail. They would be much less taxed if they only imported the discs and cart chips themselves and produced all the rest locally (Microsoft does this and their games are cheaper than PS3 and Wii games).

- Without proper business representation they have no weight to ask the police to seize illegal Nintendo games and accessories from market. Many brick-n-mortar "game shops" which have walls layered with pirated PS2 games don't carry 360 games because quite a few of them were fined for it before.

Yup , just like Microsoft did in Mexico... they have local representation and even press their discs in Guadalajara I beleive (RRODs go there too) ... hence, their consoles & games are cheaper so they're doing good in Mexico (not remotely compared to the piracy business, but hey, its something...)

 

[DDayton]

There are studies to back this up.

Where are these studies?

 

[vareon]

Kinda surprised that I don't see my country there. Either Nintendo didn't really care about Indonesia or our poor country is too insignificant to be mentioned in Nintendo's World Domination Plan.

I have the exact same problem like alterno69. Buying original games (and movies) will attract curious attention from people, as if I'm a weirdo who liked to burn money. Thank god I can still buy online, or I'll have to succumb to piracy :|

 

[Fewr]

Yup , just like Microsoft did in Mexico... they have local representation and even press their discs in Guadalajara I beleive (RRODs go there too) ... hence, their consoles & games are cheaper so they're doing good in Mexico (not remotely compared to the piracy business, but hey, its something...)

Nintendo did have official representation ages ago. First it was called something Itoh, then they changed their name to Gamela, and then sometime around the n64 days (I think) they disappeared.
I agree though, if they want less piracy then they should do something to entice consumers, for whining doesn't count.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I thought copyright was the right to copy?

Originally it was, you had to apply for permission to make copies of your own written works, I think.
Nintendo just need to find ways to stop people playing hacked games online, that's the only thing that is a concern to me.

 

[Cynar]

I thought copyright was the right to copy?

That's fair use(to create backups) which the United States no longer allows citizens to act upon sadly and people are okay with it due to being sheep.

 

[Aurora]

The funny thing is the products that Nintendo refer to are not in themselves illegal. It's using them to play ROMs of games you do not own that is illegal. In other words, it's impossible to stop the sale of such products - unless I'm missing something here.

 

[M3wThr33]

That's fair use(to create backups) which the United States no longer allows citizens to act upon sadly and people are okay with it due to being sheep.

It's why we can't have nice things.

What's the ratio of legit backups to "LOL TIME TO RAID BLOCKBUSTER!"? 1:100? 1:1000? There's no need for backups like that anymore IF the company can provide a replacement, which is the other half of that law.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I'm really not sure why Nintendo bothered mentioning Spain. As mentioned not only does the country have a specific "piracy/blank media" tax for these purposes, but the bigger issue is that the DMCA is only applicable to the United States. It's currently legal for personal backup device usage in Spain.

In sum: Nintendo can eat it.

But, I was speaking to a videogame distributor in Spain and he informed me that even the big chain stores wont stock any DS software because of the R4 problem.

Surely, this is bad for the industry?