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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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LED Guy?

Banned
Ahh i decided to take a look at this one, didn't find it to be much of a troll so decided I'd give it an answer. Nobody from xbox ever told me that Zen would be in Xbox One X, and I've never said any such thing. I simply asked people who had a direct hand in designing xbox one x directly about the possibility of zen being in xbox one x, and based on the response I got and reading their reaction (basically trying to read between the lines) the strong impression I got was that they were clearly doing something with zen at the moment.

That said, remember as early as back then it was made clear that xbox was already working on the next thing after xbox one x, so perhaps the reaction I felt I got from the question on zen and xbox one x was one that I, on my own, in my excitement wrongly applied to xbox one x, when in reality the individuals I spoke to were likely hinting about projects much further out. It was always presented as my own speculation, and not some insider information guarantee that zen would be in xbox one x. I also regularly stressed where I got the belief from. This isn't the first time people have heard me mention that xbox fanfest story. What some of the usual suspects are looking to do to fit with their current agenda is pass it off as if I was stating I was some kind of insider and never made clear that where I got my suspicions on Zen in xbox one x from was from a convo with people who worked on the system at xbox fanfest at E3. It was never from some mysterious source with me stating i'm some insider. Me stating confidently that there was no xbox one gpu downclock, that was a different matter altogether. That was directly backed up information and not just me speculating in which I could prove with a first party xbox source telling me flat out it was a lie, something I believe I explained in full to a mod on here at the time. Can't remember who. And you're right, they would never divulge any such information about upcoming products to fans, but there are times when they correct the record. The GPU downclock thing that had caught fire was one such instance. So, yea, wanted to address that one.

Also saw another totally inaccurate statement where I said for sure that durango would be more powerful. I said no such thing outside of speculation (most thought xbox would be stronger) before facts were known, and if anyone can find otherwise please share it with me. I simply stated I believed strongly that when devs utilized the esram the system would benefit from it and not be as bandwidth starved or as weak compared to ps4 as some were suggesting. Many took it to mean I was saying that it was stronger than PS4 or would equal ps4. Nope, I only just said it would be competitive and be able to produce unbelievable looking games also, because people were really acting like the thing was weak. Weaker than ps4, yes, but not weak for a console releasing then. And with that, back to Neo and the Matrix.
This goes to show you that Xbox insiders who are very VERY confident that PlayStation consoles will be weaker could be flat out proven wrong, this happened with the PS4 and XB1 before they were announced, I remember EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER were saying the Xbox 720 (at that time we didn’t know Its name) will be more powerful than the PS4 and everyone was saying it very confidently, the ONLY ONE who said that the PS4 is much more powerful between all these other claims (which were mostly from Xbox insiders) was none other than Matt, the moderator who is at ResetEra right now and he turned out to be the right one and every Xbox insider was wrong.

Now with this Xbox Series X and PS5, it seems like they’re quiet compared to 2012/2013 times, it seems like they’re not as confident as they were, especially when insiders and journalists like Kleegamefan, Matt and Jason Schreier now are stating that both consoles are like twins and are equal, even some are saying the PS5 will be a bit more powerful, like 7% more powerful GPU, maybe those 7% at the end get rectified by Microsoft later, but Sony can do the same thing.

But enough of that, Xbox insiders are nowhere near as confident now as they were back in 2012/2013 and that SCREAMS somethings...So don’t be surprised if the PS5 came out to be the stronger console or equal, as Xbox Series X being the more powerful console is becoming unlikely as time goes by. That’s all...
 
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FrozenFlame

Member
i’m not 100% sure but i think it is something like sound being able to bounce off surfaces and keep travelling, like echos or something along those lines.
not sure if you’d like to watch this video but this is something i watched however i flicked through it a while ago when it was released :messenger_beaming:


Basically, instead of calculating how light rays bounce off various surfaces, you do the same for sounds. So say something behind a corner, to your right, will sound different than something to your right but not behind a corner.

Interesting stuff. Curious to actually experience it since i kinda get the idea that we already have that kind of stuff implemented on (a few) games. I remember God of War having great sound design, especially inside the caves.
 

nowhat

Member
Interesting stuff. Curious to actually experience it since i kinda get the idea that we already have that kind of stuff implemented on (a few) games. I remember God of War having great sound design, especially inside the caves.
Oh, I'm definitely interested as well how it turns out, great sound design can really elevate the atmosphere. But (supposedly) RT audio should be easier for the developers - instead of manually having to alter samples or add filters, RT should do much of it automatically.

(with the emphasis on "should", as said we'll see how it turns out)
 
This goes to show you that Xbox insiders who are very VERY confident that PlayStation consoles will be weaker could be flat out proven wrong, this happened with the PS4 and XB1 before they were announced, I remember EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER were saying the Xbox 720 (at that time we didn’t know Its name) will be more powerful than the PS4 and everyone was saying it very confidently, the ONLY ONE who said that the PS4 is much more powerful in the GPU between all these other claims (which were mostly from Xbox insiders) was none other than Matt, the moderator who is at ResetEra right now and he turned out to be the right one and every Xbox insider was wrong.

Now with this Xbox Series X and PS5, it seems like they’re quiet compared to 2012/2013 times, it seems like they’re not as confident as they were, especially when insiders and journalists like Kleegamefan, Matt and Jason Schreier now are stating that both consoles are like twins and are equal, even some are saying the PS5 will be a bit more powerful, like 7% more powerful GPU, maybe those 7% at the end get rectified by Microsoft later, but Sony can do the same thing.

But enough of that, Xbox insiders are nowhere near as confident now as they were back in 2012/2013 and that SCREAMS somethings...So don’t be surprised if the PS5 came out to be the stronger console or equal, as Xbox Series X being the more powerful console is becoming unlikely as time goes by. That’s all...
yea thats the thing. the only people saying xbox is more powerful are related to MS pr like klobrie, tom warren(he works exclusively with MS)etc,,,

all the ones that have connection to bothand are well known like reiner or colin or jason have said they r extremely close
 

R600

Banned
Kleegamefan said the XSX is a slightly above 12 TF, that “BINGO” comment he made was about the TF figure, not the actual CU and clock speeds that achieved that TF number.
> XBOX is 12TF
> Klee : "Its actually slightly above"
> Someone pulls old rumor 64CUs at 1475MHz
> Klee replies with "Bingo"
> Everyone, correctly assumes he meant 64CUs
> 64CU is wrong
> Klee didnt mean it, he just confirmed 12TF (again)

Yea, dont think it makes sense
 

DJ12

Member
> XBOX is 12TF
> Klee : "Its actually slightly above"
> Someone pulls old rumor 12.06tf & 64CUs at 1475MHz
> Klee replies with "Bingo"
> Everyone, wrongly assumes he meant 64CUs
> 64CU is wrong
> Klee didnt mean it, he just confirmed 12TF (again)

Yea, dont think it makes sense
If you are going to tell stories at least include all information not only that which supports you current line of bs.

As it happens I've fixed up your story.
 
If you are going to tell stories at least include all information not only that which supports you current line of bs.

As it happens I've fixed up your story.
and to quote klee directly,,,,someone said guys what if klee is justs aying bingo to 12.08 TF and not the CU count where klee replied :"this guy gets it"
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Ahh i decided to take a look at this one, didn't find it to be much of a troll so decided I'd give it an answer. Nobody from xbox ever told me that Zen would be in Xbox One X, and I've never said any such thing. I simply asked people who had a direct hand in designing xbox one x directly about the possibility of zen being in xbox one x, and based on the response I got and reading their reaction (basically trying to read between the lines) the strong impression I got was that they were clearly doing something with zen at the moment.

That said, remember as early as back then it was made clear that xbox was already working on the next thing after xbox one x, so perhaps the reaction I felt I got from the question on zen and xbox one x was one that I, on my own, in my excitement wrongly applied to xbox one x, when in reality the individuals I spoke to were likely hinting about projects much further out. It was always presented as my own speculation, and not some insider information guarantee that zen would be in xbox one x. I also regularly stressed where I got the belief from. This isn't the first time people have heard me mention that xbox fanfest story. What some of the usual suspects are looking to do to fit with their current agenda is pass it off as if I was stating I was some kind of insider and never made clear that where I got my suspicions on Zen in xbox one x from was from a convo with people who worked on the system at xbox fanfest at E3. It was never from some mysterious source with me stating i'm some insider. Me stating confidently that there was no xbox one gpu downclock, that was a different matter altogether. That was directly backed up information and not just me speculating in which I could prove with a first party xbox source telling me flat out it was a lie, something I believe I explained in full to a mod on here at the time. Can't remember who. And you're right, they would never divulge any such information about upcoming products to fans, but there are times when they correct the record. The GPU downclock thing that had caught fire was one such instance. So, yea, wanted to address that one.

Also saw another totally inaccurate statement where I said for sure that durango would be more powerful. I said no such thing outside of speculation (most thought xbox would be stronger) before facts were known, and if anyone can find otherwise please share it with me. I simply stated I believed strongly that when devs utilized the esram the system would benefit from it and not be as bandwidth starved or as weak compared to ps4 as some were suggesting. Many took it to mean I was saying that it was stronger than PS4 or would equal ps4. Nope, I only just said it would be competitive and be able to produce unbelievable looking games also, because people were really acting like the thing was weak. Weaker than ps4, yes, but not weak for a console releasing then. And with that, back to Neo and the Matrix.
Alright. Fine. I can buy that. thanks for clearing that up.

Now why are you so certain that xbox will be stronger? Did u hear this from the xbox fanfest as well? Or did dome engineer you made friends with IMed you this info? Did they say if the ps5 is 8-9 tflops? Or is the difference only 10%?
 
Alright. Fine. I can buy that. thanks for clearing that up.

Now why are you so certain that xbox will be stronger? Did u hear this from the xbox fanfest as well? Or did dome engineer you made friends with IMed you this info? Did they say if the ps5 is 8-9 tflops? Or is the difference only 10%?
Please go back to last page where someone quoted him over the years what he swore on . Don’t encourage him man lol
 

Mriverz

Member
PSA: The hype train is leaving soon, anybody who wishes to get aboard better assign an avatar. Users without an avatar will be left behind. Thanks.

Ugh broke down. If this train anit hype im jumping off with a bottle of illicit goods
 
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I think its the only way to get above XSX number. It would bring 1.2x density and 15% lower TDP, therefore this is the only way I see Sony having 13TF to MS's 12TF.

Not because MS has some kind of magical designers, its because they clearly went to max with what 7nm can provide and they are now hittong the wall of huge chip, big TDP and expensive cooling.

I dunno if Sony or MS are on 7nm+ because AdoredTV did a video a while back (maybe a couple weeks ago) where part of it included talk of AMD wafer budget and he more or less figured out what wafer allocations Sony and MS could have for large-volume console production to hit AMD's wafer budget quota (30,000 wafers for 2020 product line).



Here's the video in question; PS5 and XSX speculation on the 7nm wafer budget starts at around 18:21. He basically deduces (given APU size estimates for XSX and PS5 based on info provided at the time) that AMD just reaches their 7nm wafer quota for 2020 if you include both XSX and PS5 in the equation.

Really convincing imho; they've gotten other speculation right with general tech-related stuff before (particularly AMD-related) so it seems extremely plausible both XSX and PS5 are on 7nm, which means they are likely RDNA1 with a hybrid of RDNA2 features (such as ray-tracing).

thats precisely the problem with all these Microsoft insiders. Their sources are within Microsoft.

why would Microsoft insiders know anything definitive about PS5? They dont. And if Sony truly has some surprises, they won’t be revealed until after Sony announces them, just like the 8GB GDDR5 surprise, that much RAM wasn’t featured in dev kits yet

These mega-conglomerates aren't as isolated as you think. There's a lot of cross-pollination and associating/friendships/networking with many of the employees in these companies in general, it's basically how the tech world operates for them.

So it's not that surprising if some MS people know about Sony plans in terms of, say, gaming consoles, and vice-versa. That includes insiders, if they happen to get their sources from company people who are privy to that level of information.

These guys probably know a good bit more about each other's plans than we know about either of theirs put together.
 
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Snake29

RSI Employee of the Year
PSA: The hype train is leaving soon, anybody who wishes to get aboard better assign an avatar. Users without an avatar will be left behind. Thanks.

packing-bags-gif-5.gif
 

LED Guy?

Banned
> XBOX is 12TF
> Klee : "Its actually slightly above"
> Someone pulls old rumor 64CUs at 1475MHz
> Klee replies with "Bingo"
> Everyone, correctly assumes he meant 64CUs
> 64CU is wrong
> Klee didnt mean it, he just confirmed 12TF (again)

Yea, dont think it makes sense
I mean, that's what he said, and it makes perfect sense, he said "bingo" to the TF figure, not the Compute Units number, he has the specs sheet, he wouldn't lie or mislead about it.
 
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LED Guy?

Banned
yea thats the thing. the only people saying xbox is more powerful are related to MS pr like klobrie, tom warren(he works exclusively with MS)etc,,,

all the ones that have connection to bothand are well known like reiner or colin or jason have said they r extremely close
Yes 100% agree.
 

Brudda26

Member
So been lurking for a while just watching the meltdowns, decided to make an account. So was wondering about 400nm²~(we dont know the exact size) die size, a 5700XT has a die size 251nm² with 40CU. Doing some quick armchair math would put 56CU at 351nm². The leak/rumour suggests a 56CU unit cut down from 64CU for better yields. Now if we do what digital foundry did and say the CPU is a slower 3700X as that's the only? 8C/16T zen2 part currently that chiplet is 75nm². Now if there is on chip hardware RT let's take the Nvidia RTX cards as reference the RT cores take up a total of around 9% of the die size on a RTX2080ti the die is 775nm² but that's on the less efficient 12nmFFN process. So play devils advocate and say AMD come up with a similar solution to nvidia that's CPU,GPU and RT hardware that's going to be within that 400nm²~. While yes you cant directly add all individual components together and get an accurate size because manufacturing it as a APU they probably are able refine it abit more. Now I'm not totally tech savvie on all this and just interpreting things etc so if I'm going about this totally wrong do correct me.

As for the ray tracing it's not going to be near 2080ti levels I would place it between 2070(47nm²RT) and 2060(35nm²RT). They have less RT cores so they take up less space on the die. So let's put it between those 2 something like 40nm² then shrink that down abit for the 7nm process so 25nm²(random number havent done any calculating for that).

So let's just say this
56CU GPU 351nm²
8C/16T CPU 75nm²
Hardware RT 25nm²
That's 451nm²
Again we dont know the exact dimensions of the die all we got is some ghetto measurements through a picture giving us 400nm²~. Could be 10nm² more or less.

What I think is more likely will be is a 48CU unit cut down from 54. You would have a die size of around 301nm² for the GPU, with a 8C/16T chiplet that's 376nm² add in what's left for RT you've got a die that in the realm of 400nm²~.

Again just theorizing and armchair math.
 

ethomaz

Banned
OsirisBlack confirmed the AC Ragnarok leaker was legit. According to actual industry insider ZhugeEX it was not, it was "not even getting the name right and based on outdated publicly available information". That should tell you everything you need to know.
Yeap I don’t believe Zhuge too.
Even his sales guesses are most of time way off.
 
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ethomaz

Banned
Hot take: the reason Xbox made backwards compatibility so damn amazing that everybody suddenly wanted it was nothing to do with playing your old games, it was about playing your old games in 4k, and smoother.

As the PSClassic showed the world, nobody wants to play old games at their old resolution and settings. Playing ps1 and PS2 games now feels like pain. But playing them on 4k would be a godsend... but every leak so far has suggested that while BC is a big thing all of a sudden for Sony (after their past comments too), they will play exactly as they did before.

So for me, full BC is a pipe dream, because it would need to be in higher resolution (something you can’t just do on a all cases method), but also could present license issues along the way with certain digital cases. Shit loads of 1/2 games already will never be digital.

It’s a tricky one, because it’s entirely possible they have a full BC system in place, but I dont see them having the games in higher resolution, and that for me is more important.
Actually it was about they having no game scheduled to launch for a long period on Xbox One so they had to give something to their customers... BC happened.
 
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