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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Foorbits

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He doesn't need to care about grass because Craig tends to mow grass regularly.

Funny GIF
 

Rea

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Bit hyperbolic there don't you think? I'm impressed with the haptics as well, and it is way better than the rumble that came before, but 'feeling my hands are being pulled into the vortex'? Nah. The rain I totally get though, as well as the footsteps in Control.
I'm saying what I'm feeling, there's nothing hyperbole, i have sensitive palms by the way, maybe you have more thick skin palms, i don't know. I literally feels like my hands are being pulled whenever i hit the short teleport portal, and i feel small little rubbles in my hand when doing the long portal jump as shown in the animation. So yeah, its depends on individual, some people has thick skins, so they are not as sensitive.
 

onesvenus

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Nah, those misunderstandings are only on your brain, we all know that it's only one asset and the closer you get the more polygons you get out of that one which is more precise in a frame basis. You're not even close at rendering the original asset but you probably get that full 1:1 when you're like sticking your face too close to the asset.
See what I mean? It will likely not be a single asset. It will be a single asset authored but that doesn't mean multiple simplified versions of it are not used during the rendering.
 

FrankWza

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i feel it gets way too overhyped... genuinely did not notice any difference using weapons

Rain has been the most obvious "feel" and i would say it is done very well, everything else did not impact me at all

i like it more than rumble as it atleast has different levels and positions it can vibrate but it is nowhere near as "game changing" as people try to make out
I was commenting on T thewire saying people downplay it without trying it. The haptic tech can also be used in other peripherals going forward and devs and peripheral makers are taking notice and developing specifically for it. Like in RE8. Before launch or whenever Astro was brought up it was downplayed as a gimmick that wouldnt be supported like past game add-ons or supposed innovations. As far as guns in Returnal I could tell the difference between the 3-4 weapons I used the most in the game. And even the perks each had felt different. Using the driver that had rapid fire or standard fire felt way different. Even when it had ricochet bullets added it would be different. Same with the carbine.
 
Mar 27, 2020
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Uncharted bunghole
As Moose said the speaker in the controller did more to sell the effect than just the haptics. No doubt the dual sense is a far better controller than the dual shock for sure.

I don't know if you know this but the voice coils and the speakers are very similar. You can literally feel all sorts of sounds with them due to that. Pretty much a great improvement over the old rumble technology.
 

onesvenus

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Nah, those misunderstandings are only on your brain, we all know that it's only one asset and the closer you get the more polygons you get out of that one which is more precise in a frame basis. You're not even close at rendering the original asset but you probably get that full 1:1 when you're like sticking your face too close to the asset.

All people understood it from day one but some suspects are creating dump narratives like "Ponies said UE5 won't work on Xbox/It's PS5 exclusive" when no one on planet Earth entertained those laughable ideas. Seems more like Golem's attempt to "balance" FUD on each camp, making imaginary FUD narratives that no one said to make it like "you know, all fanboys are bad".
Yup, it's all in my mind. See what I've found after a quick search. I'm sure I'd find more if I wante to.

the way it's done on UE5 is polygon streaming per frame budget, which is similar to Atom View, with no LOD system for static objects


It's fine if you don't believe me, but please, read what someone who knows what he is talking about is saying about UE5.

UE5 stated no more manual authoring of LODs. And presumably continuous LOD refinement.
The former doesn't say anything about existence of LODs (ie. we're all still using texture LODs, and will continue to do so as long as texture sampling is used, including UE5 - but virtually no-one manually generated them in decades).
The latter just means LOD transitions are smooth - it does not mean eliminating discrete LODs (see textures again). While some computational models exist where the lines are a bit blurrier, even for continuous refinement there's almost always some discrete data points represented internally, especially anything that has to operate in realtime.


What's even more impressive is that you corrected him afterwards

I know you are a Big Shot here, and know much more than I do. But according to what I've watched already from Atom View and UE5, it's a frame budget system instead with 1 asset version.
 
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Totally possible considering that on Astro’s Play Room you could feel the variety of environments he’d be walking on including sand, metal, and wood. It might seem like a pointless thing to you but it all adds to the immersion. If you don’t like it that’s on you, but stop downplaying it’s impact on gaming it makes you look really silly.
Having an opinion that is different from yours makes me look silly?

You sound very immature, I never said the dual sense didn’t have a impact. I said it wasn’t the main feature that I was looking forward to from a new Horizon game. Especially when it is not a native PS5 game and I think that is a fair opinion given the fact that we didn’t know horizon FW would even be a cross gen game until a few months ago.
 
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Having an opinion that is different from yours makes me look silly?

You sound very immature, I never said the dual sense didn’t have a impact. I said it wasn’t the main feature that I was looking forward to from a new Horizon game. Especially when it is not a native PS5 game and I think that is a fair opinion given the give the fact that we didn’t know horizon FW would be a cross gen game until a few months ago.

I have zero issues with the dual sense but the issue I do have, is when the person in that interview made it sound like the dual sense features will off set the fact that Horizon FW is cross gen.

It’s a given that that dual sense would be utilized in Sony’s first party games so I don’t see the big deal with making a statement like that but to each his own.
I actually think Horizon Forbidden West will be a good test to see how Sony handle their cross-gen triple A exclusives, I remember reading about a year ago that the game will have "bench mark graphics" or something like that, this was from their recruitment calls or something.

But from what we saw in the trailer, if the graphics look anything like that on the PS5 I think we'll be in for a real treat. I'm dying to see some gameplay, it's long overdue.

I'm also excited for the Dualsense features, haptic vibrations are quite unique and the comment about feeling blades of grass makes me curious, but I understand that everyone has a their own thing so each to their own.
 

LiquidRex

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Apparently there are new Starfield screenshot leaks... I'm concerned of the quality... I'd share but don't want to get banned I enjoy the people here. 😊
 
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IntentionalPun

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What's even more impressive is that you corrected him afterwards

We don't actually know for sure how UE5 texturing works though.. they have only described it in very vague terms, and often we are getting the "info" from Eurogamer's impression after an interview.

And they've (Digital Foundry) gotten plenty of things we do KNOW about UE5 completely wrong, so who really knows?
 
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IntentionalPun

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And it becomes way less fun to speculate when we start getting nasty with each other. And when people claim to know for sure things that truly are just speculation (from various levels of knowledge.)

I'm absolutely that person sometimes, but have been trying not to be so much lately.

If a good convo happens, the speculation is really fun and can be a learning experience for those of us not as familiar with the tech.

Everyone chill mon.
 

Boglin

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And it becomes way less fun to speculate when we start getting nasty with each other. And when people claim to know for sure things that truly are just speculation (from various levels of knowledge.)

I'm absolutely that person sometimes, but have been trying not to be so much lately.

If a good convo happens, the speculation is really fun and can be a learning experience for those of us not as familiar with the tech.

Everyone chill mon.
I really like how passionate people can be as it creates a more involved discussion but we all need to remind ourselves on occasion that in order to be more objective, we have to actively attempt to counteract our own biases.

Even though fanboys of all walks are often obtuse, stubborn and prickly I still try to remember that it's very possible they know something that I don't.
 

Setsuna Mudou

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i feel it gets way too overhyped... genuinely did not notice any difference using weapons

Rain has been the most obvious "feel" and i would say it is done very well, everything else did not impact me at all

i like it more than rumble as it atleast has different levels and positions it can vibrate but it is nowhere near as "game changing" as people try to make out
The fact you use 1 single button and the way you press it makes you feel if you're doing normal aim or readying the special attack feels pretty game changing to me. And that's just 1 of the features, not even mentioning the "feel" of the sounds though the controller and getting the indication if you're being shot at, etc.

This is not hypothetical, I play with both the dualsense and sometimes with the ds4 on remote play in my computer. It's night and day the level of immersion the dualsense provides.
 

onesvenus

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We don't actually know for sure how UE5 texturing works though.. they have only described it in very vague terms, and often we are getting the "info" from Eurogamer's impression after an interview.

And they've (Digital Foundry) gotten plenty of things we do KNOW about UE5 completely wrong, so who really knows?
He is not talking only about texturing.
And I don't know about you, but I'd get the opinion of a developer over the opinion of someone who missunderstoods technical terms all the time
 
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IntentionalPun

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He is not talking only about texturing.
And I don't know about you, but I'd get the opinion of a developer over the opinion of someone who missunderstoods technical terms all the time

They say it's scaled in real time.. if it was a series of pre-scaled LODs, would that even be an accurate description?

Random forum poster dev is definitely more knowledgeable than me no doubt; doesn't mean that they aren't contradicting Epic.. this "look at this poster he knows terms he must be right" thing is silly because the details are scant.

Should be discussing Epic's words, and providing an argument for why you think they mean something specific, or accuse them of lying...
 
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onesvenus

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They say it's scaled in real time.. if it was a series of pre-scaled LODs, would that even be an accurate description?
No, they say developers don't have to author LOD levels. That doesn't mean LOD levels aren't used, it means developers don't have to precreate them. UE5 will automagically create discrete LOD levels from a single mesh and use those when needed.

Should be discussing Epic's words, and providing an argument for why you think they mean something specific, or accuse them of lying...
Epic words are that LOD levels won't be authored anymore, not that they won't be used. Thinking LOD levels or geometry refinement won't be used is absurd. Do you think a 1M mesh that is projected to a single pixel will be rendered at full precision?
 
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Loope

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I think that's the point of Haptics. With traditional rumble everything would have the same feel but with different intensities. With Haptics the feel of it is alot more precise which allows to to get a lot closer. Like trying to simulate rain with rumble in comparison to doing it with Haptics. Precision is the key to Haptics.

It's the next step in vibration technology.
Olivia Wilde Reaction GIF
 
Dec 22, 2020
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Finally got my PS5 today. I'm amazed! Dualsense is a tremendous piece of technology, I'm really impressed.
The most impressive thing for me with the PS5 is the quality of the promotional videos/screenshots on the PS Store. It's well beyond anything on the PS4. I don't know what they changed. Videos looks MUCH better than any Youtube 4k footage.
 

LucasBR

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The most impressive thing for me with the PS5 is the quality of the promotional videos/screenshots on the PS Store. It's well beyond anything on the PS4. I don't know what they changed. Videos looks MUCH better than any Youtube 4k footage.
I will add to it the fluidity of the store, when browsing through my PS4 fat it was a pain in the ass, laggy af.
 

azertydu91

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The most impressive thing for me with the PS5 is the quality of the promotional videos/screenshots on the PS Store. It's well beyond anything on the PS4. I don't know what they changed. Videos looks MUCH better than any Youtube 4k footage.
It may also be linked to your playstation parameters, because video on my ps4 looked normal but when my brother do it on its ps4 pro it looked awful and pixelated.Which is weird since we both use fiber and wired connexion, but changing some of its internet parameters on the ps4 solved the issue(I can't remember which ones though).
 
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It may also be linked to your playstation parameters, because video on my ps4 looked normal but when my brother do it on its ps4 pro it looked awful and pixelated.Which is weird since we both use fiber and wired connexion, but changing some of its internet parameters on the ps4 solved the issue(I can't remember which ones though).
Hmm, maybe. My PS4 Pro was wired to a fiber connection while my PS5 is on wifi. The video feed from PS4's PS Store was always bad the first few seconds and they would get acceptable as the video went on. But on PS5 the max quality comes earlier and is absolutely superb. It sometimes feels like the game is actually being rendered on the screen.
 
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LiquidRex

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May I ask what caused such a dramatic reaction? What would cause that person to remove their video?
He was complaining about Gen 9 games still running 1080p 60fps and went on about how Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart was 30fps with Ray Tracing, however now he has admitted he was wrong, as he was quoting an article from August 2020 and not what was represented in the recent Ratchet trailers.
 

jroc74

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Finally got my PS5 today. I'm amazed! Dualsense is a tremendous piece of technology, I'm really impressed.
You may do like many of us did and spend a good amount of time playing Astro's Playroom. I still havent played a full VR games yet on PSVR, still on the demos, lol.

Enjoy that, and get ready to be blown away by some PS5 games., PS5 versions of games.
 

IntentionalPun

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No, they say developers don't have to author LOD levels. That doesn't mean LOD levels aren't used, it means developers don't have to precreate them. UE5 will automagically create discrete LOD levels from a single mesh and use those when needed.

So by "scaling in real time" they mean use a set of pre-determined LOD levels?

Epic words are that LOD levels won't be authored anymore, not that they won't be used. Thinking LOD levels or geometry refinement won't be used is absurd. Do you think a 1M mesh that is projected to a single pixel will be rendered at full precision?

I'm well aware of their words; you are ignoring half of their statement... or just aren't answering my question.

Epic said:
Nanite geometry is streamed and scaled in real time

I'm talking about this part of that same sentence. I'm aware they say "no need to manually author", so are you guys suggesting that by scaling in real time they just mean to the specific LOD levels they pre-determine at build time?

But of course I don't believe the bold, why would you think that? You are just not addressing the "scaled" sentence.. they claim that mesh would be scaled to a single pixel in real time. (or at least that's how I've interpreted it)
 
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NeroDaGod

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Having an opinion that is different from yours makes me look silly?

You sound very immature, I never said the dual sense didn’t have a impact. I said it wasn’t the main feature that I was looking forward to from a new Horizon game. Especially when it is not a native PS5 game and I think that is a fair opinion given the fact that we didn’t know horizon FW would even be a cross gen game until a few months ago.

I specifically said you were downplaying it’s impact which is exactly what you were doing and it made you look silly, that’s a matter of fact, nothing to do with having different opinions.
 
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onesvenus

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are you guys suggesting that by scaling in real time they just mean to the specific LOD levels they pre-determine at build time?
No, they'll do a combination of both. They'll do real time simplification between discrete LOD levels.

If we have a mesh M with a big number of polygons, which we use to compute three LOD levels: X, Y and Z, a way to simplify M in real time, and we need to render that mesh to a couple of pixels. We can do two things:
- Have a single mesh in memory and keep iterating over it to simplify it in RT to get to the desired complexity. (i.e. we'll go from M to something more simplified than Z)
- Have multiple LODs of that mesh and when a threshold is trespassed (like let's say when that mesh is projected in less than 100, 50 and 10 pixels), only load the LOD level that's needed to memory and simplify it accordingly (i.e. we'll use Z as an starting point and go from it to the desired simplification)

Notice that doing the second option we avoid wasting RAM (or I/O bandwidth) on something that's not being rendered at its full resolution and processing power because we don't need to do the simplification from a big mesh.

What's interesting to me is that, with the crazy amount of I/O bandwidth of these consoles, it makes even more sense to have something precomputed and stream it as needed than to keep it in RAM and simplify it on real time. And being as powerful as they are you can "waste" cycles refining each LOD in RT to make transitions between them almost invisible
 
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Shelookdlvl18

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I specifically said you were downplaying it’s impact which is exactly what you were doing and it made you look silly, that’s a matter of fact, nothing to do with having different opinions.
No you twat, it isn't. Some people may feel it's underrated while others may think it's been overhyped.

Looking silly would be "I loves my haptics. It's so awesome! If you don't agree with me, you're just downplaying it and looking silly. Hur dur."

Grow up, and discuss the things you like about it, but don't pretend you're so important as to be any sort of authority figure on... well, anything really.
 

jasondefaoite

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70% file reduction.

Liked this game a lot (the PS4 version) but the PS5 release is probably one of the worst PS5 patched games to date. Constant tearing when moving. Loading speeds while significantly improved on the PS4 are still pretty slow.

I remember Bo mentioning previously he doesn't see/notice tearing. Well, time for the Subnautica PS5 tear challenge :messenger_beaming:
 
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I specifically said you were downplaying it’s impact which is exactly what you were doing and it made you look silly, that’s a matter of fact, nothing to do with having different opinions.

I am not going to derail the thread by going back and forth with you.

We can agree to disagree, I know what I said and I will leave it at that.
 

Panajev2001a

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I specifically said you were downplaying it’s impact which is exactly what you were doing and it made you look silly, that’s a matter of fact, nothing to do with having different opinions.
I think that as much as I will admit that quality control and the DPad on the new Xbox controller are very good (the DPad on PS5 is great, but sometimes it will get off center and hits the hard shell of the pad… it could be a bit clickier… while the PS Vita DPad still reigns on top now the XSX and PS5 DPad trade blows and I would have not expected it), I have also to be honest around haptics and the triggers.

The combo of motion controls + strong haptics feedback + adaptive triggers is definitely a tie breaker for me unless the game has massive constraints somewhere else on PS5. It is just that good when implemented well.
 
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